OT: Racing 2008-2009 (Spoiler Alert)

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:17 am

Double post.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:18 am

pk500 wrote:That was a superb final session. What a lap by Alonso in a car that has no business being on the front row. He's a petulant dick, but man, can he drive a race car.

Hamilton's body language when he exited the car in parc ferme says it all -- he's disgusted and befuddled. Alonso was excellent at developing a car, a bonus that McLaren clearly misses this year with the inexperienced driver pairing of Hamilton and Kovalainen.

Just look at Piquet -- do you think the kid just discovered speed to earn a spot in Q3 today? I doubt it. Alonso clearly is working some strong magic with car development at Renault.

Take care,
PK

Who was the one who said that, I did? I remember Adam saying no way it's McLaren and not Alonso.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:45 pm

Rodster wrote:Who was the one who said that, I did? I remember Adam saying no way it's McLaren and not Alonso.

If that Renault is anywhere near the front of the race when it ends tomorrow, I'm listening. It's alright us saying where did Piquet's speed to get into Q3 come from, but he's 10th having previously matched Alonso all weekend, and Pat Symonds has been open in admitting the strategies don't match. I'm not fawning over anybody until we see where the Renault is over a race.

The thing I called the biggest foul on last year was Alonso's "I've brought 6 tenths" claim, which continues to be complete horsesh*t.

Students of statistics might wish to note that Lewis Hamilton is marginally closer to pole in Spain, time wise, in 2008 than he was in 2007 (0.28 seconds off this year, 0.36 seconds last year). It's rather too early to say if that means a single thing, or that they can't develop a car, or that the Renault now goes like a greasy weasel, or what, but one lap or one result can be used as proof of any argument we care to make, so we're all going to keep saying it anyway.

Mad, aren't we?

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:34 pm

One more thing to add to my quiet rant - a team that's won two of the last three world drivers titles goes quickly in Barcelona with an updated car that was tested extensively in, um, Barcelona. Certainly they've gone forward, though I'd wager their gain puts them closer to Piquet's grid position than Alonso's when all is even, but if they turned up this weekend having tested their revised car on the same circuit and then been knocked out in Q2, they'd have deserved to be horsewhipped.

The narrow spread of times is something I've been thinking a little bit about. There isn't a driver on the grid who can't get around that track with their eyes closed after all the testing they've done there, and even if the conditions are different everyone has some kind of baseline setup to work from so the sweet spot of the car should be easier to hit, but that wouldn't really account for everyone being so bloody close together. It could be one hell of a scramble for the minor places tomorrow, though given they're racing on a circuit that appears purpose-built for the prevention of overtaking, it probably won't be.

Looking at it, considering the recent major test and that positions 3 to 14 in Q1 were covered by 0.2 seconds, if any of us draws any firm conclusions about any driver or car on the basis of this weekend, we're asking for a huge, huge amount of trouble in a couple of months...

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:18 pm

The pit closure rule under safety car conditions has to change. Heidfeld isn't the first man this season to have a reasonable run completely torpedoed as a result of an accident he had no involvement in, and it's bloody silly. I appreciate the thinking behind it, but as one of the drivers (Webber, I think) recently said, if you want to stop drivers racing back to the pits through an accident zone, impose some kind of speed limit through that zone and leave it at that.

Kovalainen took a pretty big hit, and I'm glad to hear that he seems to be completely fine. The fragmented nature of the rest of the afternoon made it even harder than I'd expected yesterday to draw any useful conclusions.

When are they planning to remove the target from the back of David Coulthard's car? I'm starting to feel quite sorry for him.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:49 pm

Yes, seeing that car embedded in the wall for so long was concerning. It reminded me of Luciano Burti's run into the tires at Spa. Remember how worried Eddie Irvine was for him? Fortunately saftey has come a long way. Too bad driving in my home city feels a lot more dangerous.

Regarding the race... BORING.

The only thing else I'll say is in the form of a question. Did anyone else notice that Hamilton seemed a heck of a lot busier in the cockpit when he was following Alonso than when he finally got clean air? I know the commentators said the track was coming to him as the race went on, but it looked to me like his car was very sensitive to the turbulence coming off the Renault even though he wasn't extremely close to it.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:02 pm

Barcelona ALWAYS is boring because the teams test so often there, so there are no secrets.

But the Red Parade is starting to concern me.

At least I have Rally Jordan and IndyCar Series race at Kansas to watch this weekend. Bring on the MotoGP race next weekend at Shanghai, baby, too!

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:09 pm

pk500 wrote:Barcelona ALWAYS is boring because the teams test so often there, so there are no secrets.

But the Red Parade is starting to concern me.

At least I have Rally Jordan and IndyCar Series race at Kansas to watch this weekend. Bring on the MotoGP race next weekend at Shanghai, baby, too!

Take care,
PK

I'm a Kimi and Ferrari fan and it's start to get boring for me. I'm hoping for McLaren to pickup the pace as well as Renault which surprised me this weekend. And i'm hoping BMW can pull out a win.

Who's idea was it to put that last chicane on the final corner? I used to love the cars going flat out thru there.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:31 pm

Rodster wrote:Who's idea was it to put that last chicane on the final corner? I used to love the cars going flat out thru there.

Agreed. That was one of the better high-speed corners in F1 before it was emasculated by that chicane. Part of Max Mosley's campaign to neuter every F1 racetrack in the name of safety.

Take care,
PK

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:59 am

I always liked Stirling Moss's take on it; if you want to be safe, slow down.

I'm all for driver safety, but instead of messing with the tracks themselves, can't they just do something like increase the run-off area or gravel traps? Leave the tracks as they are, and make the areas off of the tarmac the safety areas. With all of the money spent in F1 you figure the engineers could at least figure out how to do that. Of course, after having to spend millions on Bernie's media centers and team accomidations, maybe there isn't enough money left to do something like that, probably cheaper to just throw in a chicane.

And that being said, auto racing is dangerous, and always will be. Travelling at those speeds will never be what most would consider safe, no matter how many advances they make. Is it safer than 10-20-30 years ago? Absolutely. Is it safe? Absolutely not.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:28 pm

Wasn't one of the justifications for that chicane that cars couldn't follow closely through the last two corners and a chicane would allow overtaking into turn one? It's failed on that basis too. Don't change the circuits, change the cars.

On the subject of safety and the increase in it, here's Allan McNish in the LMS race at Monza on Sunday, somehow not being killed to death by the flying Courage of Stephane Ortelli, who suffered no worse than a broken ankle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuDIIcCnpzA

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:46 pm

GB_Simo wrote:Wasn't one of the justifications for that chicane that cars couldn't follow closely through the last two corners and a chicane would allow overtaking into turn one? It's failed on that basis too. Don't change the circuits, change the cars.

Exactly. It's the Hermann Tilke philosophy of circuit design -- stop, start, stop, start, stop, start, with hardly any flow in between. But Tilke is a genius, according to Bernie.

The only Tilkedrome that I remotely like is Istanbul.

Jay-zus, that Ortelli wreck was vicious. Almost as atrocious as the MotorsTV commentators working that race!

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:44 am

Did any of you guys watch the ITV pre-race coverage? I loved the segment with Martin Brundle "Martino Brundeli" as he covered Formula 1 cars from the past 6 decades.

He took out the first and drove the 1950's Maserati which Juan Fangio drove. The cars looked very narrow and a literal death trap. I can't believe they wore no seat belts back in the day. He also went on to comment that the Maserati he was driving had the gas pedal to the left of the brake pedal.

I got a kick out of watching him drive the car and seeing the inside wheel lift when he took a corner.

The last comment was even further embedded in my brain. The Silverstone track where he drove that car was littered with spectators lining the course back in the 50's. There were barrels in the grass area as well. He also said that the track back in those days was very bumpy. And the last comment made me even more impressed with their skill back then. That same car under those track conditions were driven at speeds of 170mph, amazing.

No wonder Schumacher when he broke Fangio's record of 5 World Titles said there was no comparison to what Fangio did back in those days.

170mph in those death traps wow.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:27 am

Our boy Colin "Texas Tornado" Edwards snatched pole from his ex teammate Rossi. He did it on the final lap just as Rossi set his fastest lap Edwards countered with his own and took Pole as the session came to a close.

Take that Valentino.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat May 03, 2008 9:36 am

I'm Colin's good-luck charm:

http://www.redbullindianapolisgp.com/ne ... x_Of_China

Just kidding! But I do the "Tornado Warning" interview with him before every MotoGP race for our Red Bull Indianapolis GP Web site.

I'm really stoked to see Colin win the pole, as you won't find a cooler, nicer guy in big-league motorsports. Just a superb guy without a trace of arrogance in him -- funny as hell, too! It's a real pleasure to talk with the guy.

The Chinese Grand Prix is on from 4-5 p.m. (ET) Sunday on Speed.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat May 03, 2008 9:43 am

Rodster wrote:Did any of you guys watch the ITV pre-race coverage? I loved the segment with Martin Brundle "Martino Brundeli" as he covered Formula 1 cars from the past 6 decades.

ITV have always been excellent at this kind of thing. It'll be interesting to see if the BBC intend to put together similar features, and I guess that'll depend to some extent on who they get as the expert in commentary and whether said expert can be trusted to drive anything faster than a milk float.

He took out the first and drove the 1950's Maserati which Juan Fangio drove. The cars looked very narrow and a literal death trap. I can't believe they wore no seat belts back in the day.

It may seem unbelieveable but it was a very, very sound idea for the same reasons that having no seatbelts on a kart is a sound idea. Firstly, if you happened to roll one there was no protection for your head and neck, so as the car landed upside down you really wanted to be somewhere else, and secondly crashes in those cars had a habit of ending in fire. In the event of a big accident, inside the car was generally the worst place to be.

Not so many years ago, Brundle drove a Mercedes-Benz W155 around Spa (new Spa, not old Spa), and came away marvelling at how anyone could ever have gone around the fearsome old layout at racing speed in a car like that. He was particularly struck by the feeling of exposure - sat with one leg either side of the steering column and with no great impact protection, he said he'd have had no idea of what to do with himself had he gone off.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat May 03, 2008 9:53 am

I'm looking forward to the next piece they do in Turkey. And i'm hoping Lewis shows up for a win. This years Championship is getting on to be quite boring already, minus the Renault resurgence.

On another MotoGP note. Jorge Lorenzo crashed his bike and fractured his ankle and did some other damage but was able to slot in 4th for tomorrows race. An amazing feat by any standards.

He seems to have quite the temper. Although John Hopkins wants to kick his ass.

I heard on the last race telecast from Eurosport that Hopkins was so pissed at him on the race track for something he did. Hopkins grabbed him by the helmet while they were both on the track. I wouldn't want to tangle with Hopkins. The dude doesn't look stable if you ask me.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat May 03, 2008 4:15 pm

As much as I like the Tornado, Lorenzo's ride to fourth on the grid today in qualifying was a sign of polished brass balls. The guy is riding with a broken left ankle and severe contusions on his other foot and ankle, and if you know anything about GP motorcycle racing, a rider uses his feet a lot.

Lorenzo's crew had to lift him on and off the bike during qualifying today. That's some serious stones shown by the wee Spaniard.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:45 pm

Rod, your earlier post set me thinking about a really good film I'd seen somewhere on the Internet of a race at Silverstone. This video isn't it, but it'll do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOm2U6zj ... re=related

The first ever world championship Grand Prix, and a couple of good shots of the straw and barrel course markers.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:16 pm

Wow, that's quite cool, Adam. Thanks!

Another great Silverstone moment: Barry Sheene vs. Kenny Roberts, 1979. EPIC duel, with Murray Walker offering commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70FPdFMMgLk

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:53 am

Well it looks like Super Aguri is for all intent purposes out of business, why? It appears Honda boy Nick Fry wants them out of F1.

He's basically doing all he can to kick them out of F1, including having their trucks and Motor Homes banned from the Turkey race.

They supposedly even have a business partner who is willing to help them out. Nick Fry says no that's not good enough because he doesn't have the backing needed to properly run a F1 team. So the man with the money says he's wealthy and has more partners lined up and Nick Fry is basically full of it.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67142

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:52 am

Well Super Aguri is out of Formula One thanks to Honda boy Nick Fry, what a d***** bag.

The bigger question for Formula One is this. Is it possible we could see 16 cars on the grid in a year or two? Toro Rosso is looking to sell the team as well as Red Bull Racing because of the ban on customer cars.

You would think that F1 would do it's best to keep the minnows in the sport. Instead you have the manufacturers who prefer to keep the grid all to themselves.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu May 08, 2008 1:26 pm

Nick Fry is the wrong man to blame for Super Aguri's demise, Rod. He's not been helping matters this last week, but with customer cars going out of the window, where was Aguri Suzuki going to magic up the money to hire a design team and in-house construction facilities? They came into the sport believing customer cars were the way forward, and as soon as that decision was changed, they were, to all intents and purposes, goosed. While it's easy to blame the manufacturers for that, it's worth noting that a) the ultimate decision lies with the rulemakers within the FIA and b) the biggest critic of the customer car idea was Frank Williams, who still runs what is effectively a privateer outfit.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in motorsport, it's heartening to see the FIA with their finger firmly on the pulse:

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/67205

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Thu May 08, 2008 4:11 pm

GB_Simo wrote: Meanwhile, elsewhere in motorsport, it's heartening to see the FIA with their finger firmly on the pulse:

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/67205

I am getting so fed up with the FIA at this point. They end up sucking the life out of almost every motorsport they touch. When you drive like Loeb, you can look like freakin Grizzly Adams if you want.

At least Mosley was well groomed for his time in front of the camera...

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu May 08, 2008 5:51 pm

Chandler is an asshole. He's the moron who thinks event rotation, in which 24 WRC events take place every other year to create two 12-event annual calendars, is a great idea. So classic rallies like Wales and Finland only will take place every other year. How the hell does that build fan base?

Plus do Chandler and the Thai moron ever realize that WRC TV interviews Loeb just seconds after he removes his helmet after finishing a stage, sometimes competing in 95-degree ambient temperatures in a closed-cockpit car?

The WRC is teetering, with just four manufacturers, and Citroen and Suzuki rumored to want out. And and this is the kind of sh*t worrying world rallying's bosses?

Take care,
PK