TheGamer wrote:On another note, former Cub broadcaster and Score 670 radio baseball analyst Steve Stone has always maintained outside of steroids and HGH, the primary drug problem in baseball was amphetimines. baseball clubhouses are known to overflow with them. Leaded and unleaded coffee pots. big bowls of pills that players who had been out all night and having a hard time recovering for the next days games. He points out players that are easy to spot are the short tempered guys who always are arguing with the umps over the simplest of calls. He also claims these also run rampant in hockey clubhouses, which is why you have so many fights, and fidgety players during the national anthem.
I'm glad Steve Stone is such a hockey expert, too. What a tool.
I don't doubt that amphetamines are in hockey, but fights and fidgety players during the anthems aren't primary symptoms. A common hockey practice for players is to use smelling salts on the bench before games, too, which can make them fidgety. I saw Ryan Smyth do it often when he played for Edmonton.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
TheGamer wrote:the website that put out the original list is sticking to their story. They had 2 sources who confirmed the lists. They are saying the received an early draft of the report. Me thinks Mitchell took out the names that he didn't have more complete evidence against, ie: cancelled checks, money orders, fed ex receipts.
I'm still suprised in all of these years, nothing has ever leaked about Sammy Sosa. It appears evident that he has always been a user, but outside of his body, there hasn't been any physical or even circustantial evidence.
On another note, former Cub broadcaster and Score 670 radio baseball analyst Steve Stone has always maintained outside of steroids and HGH, the primary drug problem in baseball was amphetimines. baseball clubhouses are known to overflow with them. Leaded and unleaded coffee pots. big bowls of pills that players who had been out all night and having a hard time recovering for the next days games. He points out players that are easy to spot are the short tempered guys who always are arguing with the umps over the simplest of calls. He also claims these also run rampant in hockey clubhouses, which is why you have so many fights, and fidgety players during the national anthem.
That "uppers" and cocaine era of baseball was the craziest time. Rail thin dudes freaking out, stealing 4 bases a game, getting busted, breaking things, smashing cars, bad hair, etc... Good times.
I thought it was funny the Mitchell report briefly mentions the coke-era, but was bummed it didn't list keith hernandez, lonnie smith, or Pedro Guerrero!
There might have been that stuff in hockey but maybe I'm naive but there's a culture of hockey that exists that seems more honorable that in baseball. Maybe I'm wrong but hearing Chicken Parm talk about hockey, is a lot different from baseball players of this generation.
Plus having a more frail body in hockey will end your career. So maybe the sport itself isn't suited to roids.
I think the Mitchell report was all hot air. Plus all he did was list things that were already in the media. It's an incompetent report for an incompetent league.
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Selig said baseball has to provide a level playing field.
When the Yankees and Red Sox have $200 million payrolls, almost 10 times the payroll of some clubs.
Oh and I don't think much of ANY baseball records.
Because they've been keeping records for over 100 years, baseball considers its numbers some sacred thing, since other sports don't have anything comparable.
But baseball, even 30-40 years ago, was nothing like it is now, for reasons which have nothing to do with performance-enhancing drugs.
So having records across generations and generations of players is meaningless.
JRod wrote:There might have been that stuff in hockey but maybe I'm naive but there's a culture of hockey that exists that seems more honorable that in baseball. Maybe I'm wrong but hearing Chicken Parm talk about hockey, is a lot different from baseball players of this generation.
Plus having a more frail body in hockey will end your career. So maybe the sport itself isn't suited to roids.
Yeah, I don't think 'roids are a problem in hockey. Uppers, maybe. Booze, DEFINITELY. The booze culture in hockey is rampant.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
DivotMaker wrote:
Can I ask what difference this makes?
Time to find masking agents to cover up your tests
Didnt they already bust MLB giving players the heads up that their random tests were coming up ?
Track and Field athletes can get a knock on the door any time to go take a drug test and have their urine tested. They have 2 or 3 hours to get home or they get a negative drug-test for dodging.
Zlax45 wrote:
Time to find masking agents to cover up your tests
Didnt they already bust MLB giving players the heads up that their random tests were coming up ?
Track and Field athletes can get a knock on the door any time to go take a drug test and have their urine tested. They have 2 or 3 hours to get home or they get a negative drug-test for dodging.
Now that is the way to do it. Somehow I dont see ARod or Albert gettinng that knock from these douchebags...ever.
Zlax45 wrote:Track and Field athletes can get a knock on the door any time to go take a drug test and have their urine tested. They have 2 or 3 hours to get home or they get a negative drug-test for dodging.
Pro cycling now is the same, even during the offseason. Testers used to show up at Armstrong's door as he was preparing to go on training rides during the winter in the south of France, asking him to piss.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
Zlax45 wrote:Track and Field athletes can get a knock on the door any time to go take a drug test and have their urine tested. They have 2 or 3 hours to get home or they get a negative drug-test for dodging.
Pro cycling now is the same, even during the offseason. Testers used to show up at Armstrong's door as he was preparing to go on training rides during the winter in the south of France, asking him to piss.
Take care,
PK
This is why MLB's drug policy is considered a joke around the world.
JRod wrote:There might have been that stuff in hockey but maybe I'm naive but there's a culture of hockey that exists that seems more honorable that in baseball. Maybe I'm wrong but hearing Chicken Parm talk about hockey, is a lot different from baseball players of this generation.
Plus having a more frail body in hockey will end your career. So maybe the sport itself isn't suited to roids.
Yeah, I don't think 'roids are a problem in hockey. Uppers, maybe. Booze, DEFINITELY. The booze culture in hockey is rampant.
Take care,
PK
Cold medications are used by hockey players as a stimulant. Symptoms of massive use can include tremors.
Best wishes,
Doug
"Every major sport has come under the influence of organized crime. FIFA actually is organized crime" - Charles Pierce
Two players who played during this era who should really get more acclaim are Greg Maddux and Frank Thomas. Maddux should go down as the top pitcher of this era. And Frank Thomas came in 2nd to Jason Giambi for the mvp award, losing out on an mvp bonus and another mvp award that would assure him of a place in the HOF.
I don't think I've felt so down on the game of baseball since the 94 strike. At this time, I don't want to have anything to do with baseball. I knew this was coming, but I guess when it is official, it gets you.
Also, this report is the tip of the iceberg. Let's see if Selig will have the guts to keep investigating.
The amount of press this report is getting is fantastic and hopefully it will continue to raise the pressure on baseball and other sports to maintain a level of detection for illegal performance enhancers. One big issue though is that the science of cheating will always be there so you can never ever let up on those that do indulge themselves in order to improve their abilities. Let's put this whole era in the past, improve the current policies and move the heck on with it. I agree with Mitchell when he says that we shouldn't spend time and resources finding out exactly who did what, when, where and how.
macsomjrr wrote:The amount of press this report is getting is fantastic and hopefully it will continue to raise the pressure on baseball and other sports to maintain a level of detection for illegal performance enhancers. One big issue though is that the science of cheating will always be there so you can never ever let up on those that do indulge themselves in order to improve their abilities. Let's put this whole era in the past, improve the current policies and move the heck on with it. I agree with Mitchell when he says that we shouldn't spend time and resources finding out exactly who did what, when, where and how.
But that's the thing wasn't this proclaimed as a bookend to the steriods era. The press are even saying this is just more of the iceberg. This report answer nothing like it was supposed to do. And just tells us what we already know.
And all the MLB needs to do is copy the NFL drug policy exactly and that would spell the end of the steroids era.
Sadly, I think baseball doesn't want to fix this because they know if they do it could possibly show that steroids and HGH are so out of control that it could destroy baseball. Why else not adopt a strict policy like the NFL's?
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Since when did the NFL have the gold standard policy? European and Olympic drug testing authorities still consider the NFL policy to be too soft.
I can't help but think of a better European example, such as when Rio Ferdinand was suspended 9 months for simply missing a test, even when authorities didn't suspect that he missed it to avoid a positive test. That is something that may actually yield some results.
macsomjrr wrote:The amount of press this report is getting is fantastic and hopefully it will continue to raise the pressure on baseball and other sports to maintain a level of detection for illegal performance enhancers. One big issue though is that the science of cheating will always be there so you can never ever let up on those that do indulge themselves in order to improve their abilities. Let's put this whole era in the past, improve the current policies and move the heck on with it. I agree with Mitchell when he says that we shouldn't spend time and resources finding out exactly who did what, when, where and how.
Sadly, I think baseball doesn't want to fix this because they know if they do it could possibly show that steroids and HGH are so out of control that it could destroy baseball. Why else not adopt a strict policy like the NFL's?
At least they are doing something and I would even argue that they are doing a lot. I mean Roger Clemen's name is in here! Andy Pettite, Pujols, you name it. These guys are superstars. What else do you want them to do? Self-destruct? Throw everyone who every touched a performance enhancing drug into baseball jail? The point is that we all love the game of baseball, nobody wants to see it destroyed, so let's just deal with what we have, put a better system in place and be done with it. The NFL even with its "stricter policies and testing" continues to have people testing positive (Shawn Merriman etc...) so its not like they are the model organization here. The olympics has Marion Jones and that mess to show as proof of how wonderful they are. Guys and gals will always out smart the system so just catch the ones you can, make it as hard as you can to cheat and move on.
Naples39 wrote:Since when did the NFL have the gold standard policy? European and Olympic drug testing authorities still consider the NFL policy to be too soft.
I can't help but think of a better European example, such as when Rio Ferdinand was suspended 9 months for simply missing a test, even when authorities didn't suspect that he missed it to avoid a positive test. That is something that may actually yield some results.
The NFL doesn't have this problem. Maybe they have guys on HGH but they do not have the problems the Olympics and Bike Racing do. Funny didn't Marion Jones win the gold medals. She confessed but never really got caught with a positive confirmation of performance enhancing drugs.
Call it soft but it still works and every competition you don't hear another football player on juice. Football's biggest scandal, Billidick videotapes the Jets. Whoa that's similar.
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