All Pro Football 2k8 impressions

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JRod
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Post by JRod »

Zeppo wrote:
kevinpars wrote:
JRod, I have to respectfully disagree about you WE comparison. Now, I haven't played FIFA in some time, but as far as comparing NCAA and APF to WE itself, I find EA's game to be closer purely because of player control. In EA's game, I feel player control is responsive and the players feel like they have mass. 2K's game still has that massless, air-filled feeling to the players to me, at least until they come in contact with other players, and they still have that merry go round pole up their ass, through their back and up through their head in the way they move. It's as if the real player in terms of the physics is a stripper pole, and the body that we see is just window dressing. It's not quite as bad with changing direction as it was in 2K5, but it still feels like that to me.
Most of the problems everyone has with control is that you are playing APF like its NCAA. I think most people play football games like this...

Take control of a defender run at ball carrier. When you are at the ball carrier press tackle/dive button. Do not do this in APF. You will get your ass torched. Earl Campbell will laugh at you while he gets 500 yards.

Unless I need to make a desperate tackle, I press "A" while running through a tackle. It makes a world of difference. I still get burnt but I'm not diving while the denfese is running around me. My player has a chance of making a play. I have a few problems taking the wrong angles .
The control could be tweaked but its not bad once you get used to the game. Everyone is coming off of APF and that's really screwing up you guys. I played NCAA for the first few days and have played it long enough since for it to screw me up.


As I play APF more, it becomes more organic every time I play. Like I've said a good game doesn't feel like you are playing a system of football.

The control thing needs to be tweaked but the organic anything can happen feel of football is back. I wish I could upload some of my replays to show you all.

Here's what APF does better than NCAA.

Running game - now the lot of you think that control is what makes the running game. I've moved the game speed to fast and that's helped. The real bright spot of the game is the inside/outside running game. Play a game with a Natrone Means or Okoye than play a game with Sanders or Marcus Allen. Sanders can run inside but if a big LB or Safety hit him he's not going to win that battle. He shines when he runs outside. Its a thing of beauty when he's getting chased by a DE only to turn the corner and take one up the field.

Passing game. There's really no contest between the two. I'm doing things in APF that could never do in NCAA. Accurate passes like Montana are fun to play because the ball is always on the money. Like I've said, Elway or Cunningham will often times puts the ball a little off. Last night, I had a play where Elway guns it 40 yards down the field to an open Wesley Walker. He throws it too high making Walker just high for it, that allowed the CB to make a tackle which denied the TD.
Last edited by JRod on Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zeppo
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Post by Zeppo »

JRod wrote: Most of the problems everyone has with control is that you are playing APF like its NCAA. I think most people play football games like this...

Take control of a defender run at ball carrier. When you are at the ball carrier press tackle/dive button. Do not do this in APF. You will get your ass torched. Earl Campbell will laugh at you while he gets 500 yards.
That may be true for 'most people,' but it's not how I play defense in either game. I'm not just talking about player control on defense when defending the run. I'm talking about the basic player movement control, the feeling and sensation I have in the translation of my control stick input into the actions on the field. I have just as much of a different sensation in controlling the player in 'special move' practice as I do in game, either on offense or on defense. There is something about the player control in 2K football that feels to me a bit like I am along for the ride, whereas in the EA games, especially this newest version of NCAA, I feel much more in complete control. Also, changing direction somehow feels more instantaneous to me in 2K, which is part of what leads me to describe the players as 'air filled,' whereas in NCAA I feel like the players have real mass and momentum. YMMV, but I don't think you know what I am doing with players when I am playing the game.
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Post by JRod »

It's not that big of a deal. It's an issue but not enough to say NCAA is a better game.
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Post by Slumberland »

Zeppo wrote:I don't think you know what I am doing with players when I am playing the game.
I have seen first-hand what Zeppo is doing with players when he is playing the game, and it would make a pornstar blush.
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Post by Danimal »

JRod wrote:It's not that big of a deal. It's an issue but not enough to say NCAA is a better game.
In your opinion.

In many peoples opinion NCAA is far superior in the control department.
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Post by Jimmydeicide »

JRod wrote:
Zeppo wrote:
kevinpars wrote:
JRod, I have to respectfully disagree about you WE comparison. Now, I haven't played FIFA in some time, but as far as comparing NCAA and APF to WE itself, I find EA's game to be closer purely because of player control. In EA's game, I feel player control is responsive and the players feel like they have mass. 2K's game still has that massless, air-filled feeling to the players to me, at least until they come in contact with other players, and they still have that merry go round pole up their ass, through their back and up through their head in the way they move. It's as if the real player in terms of the physics is a stripper pole, and the body that we see is just window dressing. It's not quite as bad with changing direction as it was in 2K5, but it still feels like that to me.

And thats just how the players look and feel in their hockey games also, turning and pivoting just like i was playing bubble hockey. I guess its just how they decide to do player movement across all platforms, is that how the 2k basketball is ? im guessing its probably true.
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Post by Slumberland »

Jimmydeicide wrote:I guess its just how they decide to do player movement across all platforms, is that how the 2k basketball is ? im guessing its probably true.
Yes... basketball is definitely like that.

I do find user input to be smoother in EA games, generally, but to no meaningful end. Once one player comes into contact with another, everything goes to sh*t and the laws of physics are re-written. Runningbacks collapse like they've been shot when a defender's arm grzes them... defenders phase through the people they're tackling, Kitty Pryde-style, etc. I'll take the helium people for now. I haven't played this year's NCAA beyond the demo though, after playing '07 incessantly last year.
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Post by JRod »

Danimal wrote:
JRod wrote:It's not that big of a deal. It's an issue but not enough to say NCAA is a better game.
In your opinion.

In many peoples opinion NCAA is far superior in the control department.
The problem Zeppo is seeing online has to due with the auto-strafe being turned on. I don't think there's a way to turn that off. I had that problem online but not offline since I don't play with auto-strafe.

I'm saying that APF gets the game of football right. The controls take some getting used to and aren't that bad once you unlearn NCAA/Madden. Little things like there's no suction diving (aka PK's friday night) in APF. In NCAA, I think there's some sort of assistance when you dive the AI then makes your player go toward offensive player.

Control does not mean a better football game.

As for mario running...zeppo you know as well as I do that RBs get stuck behind their blockers. I would go as far as to say that both games have gone to the other end of the spectrum and what they do isn't realistic. There should be some instances where the RB gets stuck beind the blockers. It's football.
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Post by Danimal »

JRod wrote:
Danimal wrote: The problem Zeppo is seeing online has to due with the auto-strafe being turned on. I don't think there's a way to turn that off. I had that problem online but not offline since I don't play with auto-strafe.
Really? That's not what I got out of his posts. But whatever.
I'm saying that APF gets the game of football right. The controls take some getting used to and aren't that bad once you unlearn NCAA/Madden. Little things like there's no suction diving (aka PK's friday night) in APF. In NCAA, I think there's some sort of assistance when you dive the AI then makes your player go toward offensive player.

Control does not mean a better football game.
Once again you're expressing your opinion as if it's fact, at least that is how it appears.

Better control does make a better experience for some people. I don't think anyone said it makes a better football game. There is no question that the suction diving exist in NCAA and that the animations on APF and tackling are on a different level.

Having said that, there is nothing to get used to or unlearn, it is the same crappy unresponsive controls on defense that were in 2K5. Which is odd, because on offense the controls are very responsive. We all played this game 3 years ago, I don't think it was a lot to ask that they tighten the defensive player controls. I want to be involved on defense without playing a DE or DT, and I don't want to just sit there and watch until I am in the play and maybe hit the Y or A button.

If you can live with it that's fine, but really telling people to unlearn or get used to it?

Listen neither game is perfect and we could debate the strengths and weakness to the cows come home. What we can't debate is whether someone feels comfortable controlling their on screen persona.

You say it's fine, I say it's not. Neither one of us is wrong. I can see that, can you?
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Post by JRod »

Slumber said it best. The control is better but at the cost of realism.

Danimal you've completely missed the f'n boat here...

My original point which zeppo picked up on is that the difference between these two games is like WE and FIFA. He said he didn't like the feeling on controls in APF. How he spun out on control from that is anybody's clue.

You guys are debating control, I'm debating realism here. Fine you don't like control in the game. You don't like how they move. I've said in post one its not as smooth as NCAA. Get over that Danimal. That issue can be minimized to a point. But there is no contest in realism. Plain and simple there's more going on underneath the hood that is football related than what's going on in NCAA/Madden. And my point again, that difference is like WE to FIFA.
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Post by dbdynsty25 »

JRod wrote:My original point which zeppo picked up on is that the difference between these two games is like WE and FIFA. He said he didn't like the feeling on controls in APF. How he spun out on control from that is anybody's clue.
Probably because you're the one who had an entire post based on CONTROL at the top of the page. No one missed the boat...they are just calling you out on things that YOU type. And rightfully so of course.
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Post by JRod »

dbdynsty25 wrote:
JRod wrote:My original point which zeppo picked up on is that the difference between these two games is like WE and FIFA. He said he didn't like the feeling on controls in APF. How he spun out on control from that is anybody's clue.
Probably because you're the one who had an entire post based on CONTROL at the top of the page. No one missed the boat...they are just calling you out on things that YOU type. And rightfully so of course.
Not all of it was on control. Re-read.

Zeppo brought up control a few pages back. I've not disagreed with him. IT CAN BE MINIMIZED WITH PLAY TIME.
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Post by Danimal »

I can't see a point in continuing this topic because apparently it can change once it's not going to your liking.

Excuse me while I go unlearn that when I push the analog stick to the left I actually want my guy to go that way.
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Post by Inuyasha »

So far i like the random online games I ve played. Really cool to see other people's uniforms and players on their teams. No cheese so far online randoms for me. Fingers crossed.
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Post by JRod »

Danimal wrote:I can't see a point in continuing this topic because apparently it can change once it's not going to your liking.

Excuse me while I go unlearn that when I push the analog stick to the left I actually want my guy to go that way.
That's so stupidly dramatic. If APF was that bad NO ONE would be playing it.

If the control is that bad don't play it. Put it on EBay and be done with it. Considering that you are still playing it, how bad can it be? Is it a game killer, no. Is the control as responsive as madden/ncaa no? God let's f***in move on from controls.
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Post by Slumberland »

I've had... OK experiences with randoms so far as well, besides a couple quitters. It is fun to see people's uniforms, and as I've said before, it's nice knowing you're on essentially equal footing when it comes to player resources, with no need to do that whole "oh jeez he took the best team in the game, who can I pick to match up, and when will I ever get a chance to use the Cardinals in a ranked match" routine.

JRod, you're almost having an argument with yourself at this point. Zeppo likes the game. Some people just think 2K football players move like carousel horses. It's got nothing to do with auto-strafe.
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Post by WillHunting »

Seems like some people like APF's feel more than Madden and vice versa. I am glad there is a significant difference. I like them both for different reasons, but I just don't have $60 to get APF now (hence I am playing Madden 07 since it is dirt cheap).
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Post by dbdynsty25 »

Anyone else having connection issues when they go to play a friend?

Every time my bro-in-law and I try to play, we get that the game can't be started and to consult the online faq (which of course is blank) or the website. We've tried damn near every way to start a game and nothing works. I haven't tried with anyone else so I can't comment on that, just wondering if anyone else had issues.
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Post by TCrouch »

I've connected fine in the Play A Friend every time I've tried.
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Post by Inuyasha »

I have connection issues while in a offline game. What happens is I am in the game, and my XBL disconnects. I try to pause and reconnect but it can't. but when the game is over and I do reconnect, it works.
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Post by Danimal »

Wow the end of game AI is insanely bad. I guess I haven't had much chance to notice it until last night. I had a game end in a tie, and while that might sound exciting here is the AI last drive.

Starts on their own 30 with 2:42 seconds left.

- Dive to Allen 3 yards
- Power to allen - 2 yards
- 15 yard completion

Now on their 45, still haven't called a time out.
- Run to Aleen -1 yard
- Run to allen - 5 yards
- 21 yard completion.

Now on my 34 yard line about 30+ seconds left. Still saving their 3 timeouts.

- run 3 yards gaine on my 31, 12 seconds left. Surely they will call a time out now and kick the field goal.
- Come to the line to attempt another run, clock runs out.

So what was a stellar game, one of the best I've played. ended like this, killed my buzz real quick.
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Post by GTHobbes »

Anybody else try playing on the demo cam yet? I'm still loving it as a great change of pace. I'm finding it also helps me run my player's assignment better, both on offense and defense, as well.
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Post by seanmac31 »

I'm not going to weigh in too heavily on the question of whether or not EA's superior player control-something that the series always had in current gen and appears to have finally regained in next gen-translates into a more or less enjoyable experience. I do think there is something to the idea that it takes a serious adjustment to move between the two games, as you have to be very light on the stick with 2K8 (or any of the previous 2Ks, for that matter). And I agree with Jrod that you have a fundamentally more realistic portrayal here. In NCAA, you have tremendous player control, but you are able to do things like overrun your gap and get yourself back in position in plenty of time. In 2K8, you want to glide towards your gap-if you overplay it, you're pretty much done.

I'm curious to see how people feel about the auto strafe. I was having some serious problems with it early on, and I'm sure a lot of other people were as well. But now I'm actually finding it very satisfying, particularly when I'm playing safety. The act of pressing the right trigger and breaking out of auto strafe exactly mimics when a defender plants and turns out of a backpedal. I've had a great time as a FS backpedaling as the receiver comes up on me, then breaking out of it and jumping an out route, for instance. There's just something about hitting the trigger that makes the experience feel very concrete. For those who are still struggling with it, I highly suggest hitting the trigger at the point where you feel the defender should flip his hips.
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Post by AJColossal »

Danimal wrote:Wow the end of game AI is insanely bad. I guess I haven't had much chance to notice it until last night. I had a game end in a tie, and while that might sound exciting here is the AI last drive.

Starts on their own 30 with 2:42 seconds left.

- Dive to Allen 3 yards
- Power to allen - 2 yards
- 15 yard completion

Now on their 45, still haven't called a time out.
- Run to Aleen -1 yard
- Run to allen - 5 yards
- 21 yard completion.

Now on my 34 yard line about 30+ seconds left. Still saving their 3 timeouts.

- run 3 yards gaine on my 31, 12 seconds left. Surely they will call a time out now and kick the field goal.
- Come to the line to attempt another run, clock runs out.

So what was a stellar game, one of the best I've played. ended like this, killed my buzz real quick.
I just had the AI beat me on a last second final drive where they actually did a decent job of managing the clock, but I have seen some head-scratching moments, like where they get to the line and the QB has a long snap count that wastes away precious seconds. I haven't seen anything quite as obviously bad as your scenario.

Some games are better than others, but I don't really know of many games that completely nail end of game AI. You would think by now all these high end next gen systems would catch on.
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Post by Slumberland »

EA's take:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_i ... tory=14871

I see them incorporating some sort of "legends" mode into Madden '09, offering more money to the retired players than Take-Two can. I figure T2 only signed likeness rights for 2K8 and not beyond, right?
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