My 360 has both feet in the grave :(

[Rodster]

Thanks for the info.

So there is enough other problems that could go wrong that aren't covered by the Microsoft 3 year warrany?

It's a tough decision. I want to move to the next gen, but there's so many damn horror stories about the thing.

Rick

And Microsoft wonders why they went from 10 million in one year to around two million the next. I think word has gotten out how unreliable these things really are. I would wait until the newly designed 360's get released which should be in a couple of months.

Next gen gaming has steered me back to the PC. The hardware is far more reliable and the games have far more depth.

[MizzouRah]

Thanks for the info.

So there is enough other problems that could go wrong that aren't covered by the Microsoft 3 year warrany?

It's a tough decision. I want to move to the next gen, but there's so many damn horror stories about the thing.

Rick

Everything in this world has the same risk involved. Get a 360 and start enjoying gaming. Go to Best Buy if it really concerns you and get the 3 year replacement plan.

By the time you think you've waited it out and everything is fine, the 360 II will be out.

[Jackdog]

Thanks for the info.

So there is enough other problems that could go wrong that aren't covered by the Microsoft 3 year warrany?

It's a tough decision. I want to move to the next gen, but there's so many damn horror stories about the thing.

Rick

Everything in this world has the same risk involved. Get a 360 and start enjoying gaming. Go to Best Buy if it really concerns you and get the 3 year replacement plan.

By the time you think you've waited it out and everything is fine, the 360 II will be out.

That almost sounds like good advice,except for the fact I am 44 years old and have a family and a life. My video game time is relaxation time. Not stress because I never know when it's going to crap out. I don't have the desire to keep exchanging systems via the mail or running back and fourth to the store.

This thread has convinced me to keep my wallet closed when it comes to the 360. Call me old school, but I feel if I am going to pay that kind of cash for a system it should work worry free for at least a few years. I refuse to reward MS for shitty workmanship. Just my opinion.

[MizzouRah]

Thanks for the info.

So there is enough other problems that could go wrong that aren't covered by the Microsoft 3 year warrany?

It's a tough decision. I want to move to the next gen, but there's so many damn horror stories about the thing.

Rick

Everything in this world has the same risk involved. Get a 360 and start enjoying gaming. Go to Best Buy if it really concerns you and get the 3 year replacement plan.

By the time you think you've waited it out and everything is fine, the 360 II will be out.

That almost sounds like good advice,except for the fact I am 44 years old and have a family and a life. My video game time is relaxation time. Not stress because I never know when it's going to crap out. I don't have the desire to keep exchanging systems via the mail or running back and fourth to the store.

This thread has convinced me to keep my wallet closed when it comes to the 360. Call me old school, but I feel if I am going to pay that kind of cash for a system it should work worry free for at least a few years. I refuse to reward MS for shitty workmanship. Just my opinion.

Good for you. I have a 360 and don't stress about it possibly going out. Just as I don't stress about my TV going out or the dishwasher.

MS is making strides to ensure a better product. Go with the ps3 if it'll make you feel better... but like I said, spend a little extra and protect your investment.

[Feanor]

You missed the point again. It's not just about protecting the investment, it's about avoiding the annoyance and frustration of dealing with the whole 360 support system. Like JackDog, I want to get a 360 some day, but I can wait till MS release a version of the 360 that's constructed properly and is reliable.

[Rodster]

You missed the point again. It's not just about protecting the investment, it's about avoiding the annoyance and frustration of dealing with the whole 360 support system. Like JackDog, I want to get a 360 some day, but I can wait till MS release a version of the 360 that's constructed properly and is reliable.

No arguments from me. When my 360 recently died from RROD even though it was covered by Microsoft's warranty I was prepared to cut my losses with the 360 as others have. I did not want to deal with all the hassles.

The only reason I stayed with the 360 was I have friends who work at EB. I had an extended warranty that I had not cashed in and was 5 months expired. My friends were able to put it thru their system and I walked out the door with a brand new 360.

[MizzouRah]

You missed the point again. It's not just about protecting the investment, it's about avoiding the annoyance and frustration of dealing with the whole 360 support system. Like JackDog, I want to get a 360 some day, but I can wait till MS release a version of the 360 that's constructed properly and is reliable.

No I didn't miss the point. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jack can still go to a Best Buy, get a 360 and purchase the extended warranty, which should allow him to replace his unit if it fails within the specified time (3 years I think).

When I bought a ps2 years ago, I purchased a 4 year warranty and they told me if it failed, to bring it back in and they'd replace the unit. Has this changed?

That does suck he has to send his unit into MS, but hopefully the repair process will only get better.

[DivotMaker]

And Microsoft wonders why they went from 10 million in one year to around two million the next. I think word has gotten out how unreliable these things really are. I would wait until the newly designed 360's get released which should be in a couple of months.

Not sure I buy that as the whole explanation. There is no question that news of the 360's reliability has reached the mass market, especially recently as MS increased the warranty to cover their defective design. I do believe the drop from 10 million units sold to 2 million was more a factor of fence-sitters waiting to see what the Wii and PS3 were going to deliver as well as continued strong sales of the PS2. Ever since the Wii was introduced, N has cut into the 360 mindshare that MS enjoyed being the only NG console out for a full year.

Next gen gaming has steered me back to the PC. The hardware is far more reliable and the games have far more depth.

I'm the opposite. PC gaming and its associated costs have driven me closer to NG consoles (I own 2 360's - one for the family and one for me personally) despite the fact that I have replace the family unit (launch unit) twice in the first year. I also enjoy the fact that the games I play on the 360 are far less troublesome and time-consuming than the same game on PC. While I have been an avid PC gamer for years, I am now letting my PC gaming take a back seat to console gaming because I can't afford to continue upgrading my PC to give me the kind of experience I have enjoyed in the past. Having a daughter in college and a son about to enter college soon is also a major reason I have dropped out of the PC gaming market for now.

[Rodster]

I haven't upgraded my PC in one and a half years. I recently priced a major upgrade to the CPU, Motherboard and memory. The costs was around $500, the same cost as a PS3.

I do find a lot more depth in PC games which primarily is racing and flight sims. The console can't touch that not even close to what the PC offers. I do believe word has spread about the unreliability of the 360. I do grant you that your argument regarding MS having 1 year as the only console available. While that's true I have no doubt stories from the internet, from friends who own a 360 that has failed have turned many away from the 360, just like Jack and a few others here.

[Jackdog]

Everything in this world has the same risk involved. Get a 360 and start enjoying gaming. Go to Best Buy if it really concerns you and get the 3 year replacement plan.

By the time you think you've waited it out and everything is fine, the 360 II will be out.

That almost sounds like good advice,except for the fact I am 44 years old and have a family and a life. My video game time is relaxation time. Not stress because I never know when it's going to crap out. I don't have the desire to keep exchanging systems via the mail or running back and fourth to the store.

This thread has convinced me to keep my wallet closed when it comes to the 360. Call me old school, but I feel if I am going to pay that kind of cash for a system it should work worry free for at least a few years. I refuse to reward MS for shitty workmanship. Just my opinion.

Good for you. I have a 360 and don't stress about it possibly going out. Just as I don't stress about my TV going out or the dishwasher.

MS is making strides to ensure a better product. Go with the ps3 if it'll make you feel better... but like I said, spend a little extra and protect your investment.

I don't buy TV's or Dishwashers with the kind of track record the 360 has garnered. If it's no big deal for you so be it. Enjoy. I responded to your words of advice with some of my own. No biggie.
I think I'll buy a damn good computer,that's a better investment IMO. Next Gen gaming is $$$$$ and I still want the best bang for my hard earned coin.

[DivotMaker]

I haven't upgraded my PC in one and a half years. I recently priced a major upgrade to the CPU, Motherboard and memory. The costs was around $500, the same cost as a PS3.

For me, the price of upgrading is prohibitive because I believe in getting the best hardware (or one notch below) available at the time. Right now, if I upgraded my PC, the cost would be over $1000. New MB/CPU/GPU/RAM would be prohibitively costly and I would be the only member of my family who would enjoy the benefits of the better hardware. Right now, the PS3 and/or 360 provide FAR more value and bang for the buck than a comparable PC.

I do find a lot more depth in PC games which primarily is racing and flight sims. The console can't touch that not even close to what the PC offers. I do believe word has spread about the unreliability of the 360. I do grant you that your argument regarding MS having 1 year as the only console available. While that's true I have no doubt stories from the internet, from friends who own a 360 that has failed have turned many away from the 360, just like Jack and a few others here.

I agree that there is more depth to certain genre's of PC games such as those you mention. If the PS3/360 games were designed to support mouse and keyboards, I think you would find more depth in those games on consoles. If/when consoles support the same input devices and interfaces, the hardcore simulation market will continue to stay with PC's. I am not sure if the console developers even consider this market when they create game features as it seems none of them are pushing to include such features that would spur mouse/keyboard sales. To console developers, the hardcore simulation market is still a niche' market. I wish at least one or two developers would push such features in AAA games to see if there really is interest in supporting such a market for consoles.

[Rodster]

For me, the price of upgrading is prohibitive because I believe in getting the best hardware (or one notch below) available at the time. Right now, if I upgraded my PC, the cost would be over $1000. New MB/CPU/GPU/RAM would be prohibitively costly and I would be the only member of my family who would enjoy the benefits of the better hardware. Right now, the PS3 and/or 360 provide FAR more value and bang for the buck than a comparable PC.

I went to newegg.com and priced a Intel C2D CPU running at 2.4ghz which won 3 awards for $222. The video card has the most expense. I purchased from newegg an nVidia 7900GTO with 512meg of video ram for $250 and that was a year ago and the card is still an animal. About 90 percent of my games I can run at max with the exception of Flight Sim X.

I agree that there is more depth to certain genre's of PC games such as those you mention. If the PS3/360 games were designed to support mouse and keyboards, I think you would find more depth in those games on consoles. If/when consoles support the same input devices and interfaces, the hardcore simulation market will continue to stay with PC's. I am not sure if the console developers even consider this market when they create game features as it seems none of them are pushing to include such features that would spur mouse/keyboard sales. To console developers, the hardcore simulation market is still a niche' market. I wish at least one or two developers would push such features in AAA games to see if there really is interest in supporting such a market for consoles.

I don't see console makers going for the PC type card as they are very hard to please. It would be nice but that's why we don't see as many new flight or racing sims as in years past. It's a lot easier to make games for the casual crowd, nothing wrong with that IMO.

I am slowly getting back into PC gaming even though I own a Xbox 360 and PS3. I find myself more immersed in high quality PC racing and flight sims like rFactor, GTR2 and Microsoft Flight Simulator.

[DivotMaker]

I went to newegg.com and priced a Intel C2D CPU running at 2.4ghz which won 3 awards for $222. The video card has the most expense. I purchased from newegg an nVidia 7900GTO with 512meg of video ram for $250 and that was a year ago and the card is still an animal. About 90 percent of my games I can run at max with the exception of Flight Sim X.

Motherboard:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=240990

$182.98

CPU:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... Code=80860

$221.90

Graphics card:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=322843

$569.99 (not including $30 MIR)

Memory:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... Code=85279

$159.50

New Power Supply:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=316508

$179.00 (not including $30 MIR)

Grand Total: $1,253.37

This is what it would take for me to upgrade and certainly not the high end that I could choose. To me, there is no PC game worth that kind of investment today, and I have not even considered the cost of MS Vista when it is actually the better choice for gaming which XP is still the best overall at this point in time.

[MizzouRah]

I don't buy TV's or Dishwashers with the kind of track record the 360 has garnered. If it's no big deal for you so be it. Enjoy. I responded to your words of advice with some of my own. No biggie.
I think I'll buy a damn good computer,that's a better investment IMO. Next Gen gaming is $$$$$ and I still want the best bang for my hard earned coin.

Fair enough Jack.

My pc is strictly for text sim gaming, and I have a new rig.

[Rodster]

Grand Total: $1,253.37

This is what it would take for me to upgrade and certainly not the high end that I could choose. To me, there is no PC game worth that kind of investment today, and I have not even considered the cost of MS Vista when it is actually the better choice for gaming which XP is still the best overall at this point in time.

If you have to start from scratch then yes it does add up quickly. OTOH there are parts that carry over once you make the initial investment, such as power supply, hard drive, case, graphics card, LCD monitor, CD/DVD drive. When i'm building my system the power supply, hard drive and video card are three components that I usually try and plan ahead.

That's why if I did want to upgrade it would cost me less than half of what you would pay. Still my system is good for another 24 months and that's if I wanted to upgrade to Vista which I won't do.

But your right if it's not worth it to you than there's no sense of upgrading your PC.

[Danimal]

I don't buy TV's or Dishwashers with the kind of track record the 360 has garnered.

Well unless you do a lot of research I bet you might. Do you frequent Dishwasher web forums? Do you get the data on which companies have the best service and failure rates?

I'm betting you don't because that data is hard to come by. The only reason I know about it is because my wife worked on the Maytag account for 13 years.

My point is there are a lot of products in peoples homes right now that have a worse failure rate then a 360 and worse service as well. No one sits around stressing about them because they aren't in the public eye.

You don't want to buy one then who is to argue that. But the fact of the matter is you have the option of coverage on it far superior to most major appliance or CES items you buy.

[Leebo33]

I don't buy TV's or Dishwashers with the kind of track record the 360 has garnered.

Well unless you do a lot of research I bet you might. Do you frequent Dishwasher web forums? Do you get the data on which companies have the best service and failure rates?

Maybe I would have agreed with you 5-10 years ago, but it's easy now to get a ton of information quickly on all types of products. We are doing our basement now and have researched everything from sump pump backup systems to TVs, speakers, sewage pumps, stereo receivers, toilets, countertops, ceiling fans, etc. A few Google searches later and it's easy to find some information/opinions on almost any product. Last winter my wife damaged a side mirror on our Pilot backing out of the garage. The dealership tried to tell her that we needed a whole new unit and within 15 minutes my wife sent them the part number and instructions on how to fix the mirror and we saved $150!

[Danimal]

Maybe I would have agreed with you 5-10 years ago, but it's easy now to get a ton of information quickly on all types of products. We are doing our basement now and have researched everything from sump pump backup systems to TVs, speakers, sewage pumps, stereo receivers, toilets, countertops, ceiling fans, etc. A few Google searches later and it's easy to find some information/opinions on almost any product. Last winter my wife damaged a side mirror on our Pilot backing out of the garage. The dealership tried to tell her that we needed a whole new unit and within 15 minutes my wife sent them the part number and instructions on how to fix the mirror and we saved $150!

You misunderstood my post. Yes you can find the data, although not the specific data I was talking about. But you can find reviews etc.

However the fact that Maytag has the worst repair service rating in the industry should be concerning to you if you're going to buy a Maytag product. They don't even have their own repai company it's all outsourced. They no longer make parts in the US, they get their parts cheaper from out of the country, hence the parts are cheaper and failing more often.

But how many people know that? Not many, they think of the commercials and bam Maytag is a great product. There is no story on CNN etc about bad service, theres not a multitude of forums where you can find that information. Games are an entertainment industry and as with any entertainment industry they are open to more opinions.

Try and find a replacement plan that is going to give you a new dishwasher 3 years after you bought it for a reasonable price. Then find me someone who has used it without a headache.

So again whether someone buys one or not is not my concern. I just found it a bit laughable to say you don't want the stress that it might break every time you turn it on and was trying to point out that occurs with everything you own.

[MizzouRah]

Maybe I would have agreed with you 5-10 years ago, but it's easy now to get a ton of information quickly on all types of products. We are doing our basement now and have researched everything from sump pump backup systems to TVs, speakers, sewage pumps, stereo receivers, toilets, countertops, ceiling fans, etc. A few Google searches later and it's easy to find some information/opinions on almost any product. Last winter my wife damaged a side mirror on our Pilot backing out of the garage. The dealership tried to tell her that we needed a whole new unit and within 15 minutes my wife sent them the part number and instructions on how to fix the mirror and we saved $150!

You misunderstood my post. Yes you can find the data, although not the specific data I was talking about. But you can find reviews etc.

However the fact that Maytag has the worst repair service rating in the industry should be concerning to you if you're going to buy a Maytag product. They don't even have their own repai company it's all outsourced. They no longer make parts in the US, they get their parts cheaper from out of the country, hence the parts are cheaper and failing more often.

But how many people know that? Not many, they think of the commercials and bam Maytag is a great product. There is no story on CNN etc about bad service, theres not a multitude of forums where you can find that information. Games are an entertainment industry and as with any entertainment industry they are open to more opinions.

Try and find a replacement plan that is going to give you a new dishwasher 3 years after you bought it for a reasonable price. Then find me someone who has used it without a headache.

So again whether someone buys one or not is not my concern. I just found it a bit laughable to say you don't want the stress that it might break every time you turn it on and was trying to point out that occurs with everything you own.

Hey, I stress every time it rains as our roof shingles on the back side of our house are bad. They are going to replace them, but it's been a pain in the ass!

[Feanor]

I would like to be more of a PC gamer, but the potential software hassles are a real turn-off. I thought I'd be set with a 320 MB 8800 GTS, but the Nvidia Control Panel crashed the first time I tried to set up an individual game profile for PES 6 and now it crashes every time I try to get back to that profile. And Nvidia forums I've seen talk of a memory problem with the 8000-series drivers that causes increasing frame rate loss and can only be fixed by Alt-Tabing out of the game and back in on a regular basis.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=38603

Also, just because I played a few multiplayer games of FEAR, I now have PnkBstrA.exe and PnkBstrB.exe running every time I start the computer. Good old Punkbuster now runs constantly from start-up even if you're not playing a game, even if you set it to start up Manually in Computer Management.

You guys are 100% correct about the depth and greatness of certain genres on the PC compared to their more lightweight console cousins, but that comes at a cost.

[Leebo33]

There is no story on CNN etc about bad service

I wasn't aware of any CNN coverage regarding bad Xbox customer service until the $1B charge, which is fairly significant financial news.

Just Google "Maytag Customer Service Record" or "complaints" and you'd be surprised what shows up.

http://www.my3cents.com/companyReview.c ... 8&subcat=6

First hit for Google of "Maytag forums":

http://www.applianceblog.com/mainforums ... y.php?f=20

[Rodster]

I would like to be more of a PC gamer, but the potential software hassles are a real turn-off. I thought I'd be set with a 320 MB 8800 GTS, but the Nvidia Control Panel crashed the first time I tried to set up an individual game profile for PES 6 and now it crashes every time I try to get back to that profile. And Nvidia forums I've seen talk of a memory problem with the 8000-series drivers that causes increasing frame rate loss and can only be fixed by Alt-Tabing out of the game and back in on a regular basis.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=38603

You guys are 100% correct about the depth and greatness of certain genres on the PC compared to their more lightweight console cousins, but that comes at a cost.

They recent nVidia drivers for the 8800 series have been a joke partly due to nVidia trying to get them to work with Vista. Fortunately for me my 7900GTO runs awesome and i'm using driver version 91.47

Also nVidia for some stupid reason decided to change their GUI similar to ATi. That's why i'm on 91.47 as it was the last simple GUI from nVidia.

[Jackdog]

So again whether someone buys one or not is not my concern. I just found it a bit laughable to say you don't want the stress that it might break every time you turn it on and was trying to point out that occurs with everything you own.

I am glad I could amuse you. I am also glad you guys schooled me up on on how everything I own will break someday. I had no clue.

What I find funny is that gaming consoles are being compared to appliances.Wow,I believe that's a first. If you guys are happy with the 360's and all the problems you've discribed in this thread ,great!

Again, I game as a stress relief. I don't use my dishwasher or refrigerator to take the edge off. I don't think I would enjoy going through what many in this thread have complaned about. To me the 360's sound like a headache I don't want or need in my gaming life. I made my point. What's the problem?

If I remember correctly you got your 360 for free,right? It was a gift from work. Hell if I was given a 360 I wouldn't stress about the thing breaking at all. No skin off my back. I would be out the cost of a game rental. No biggie. But I am not as lucky as you. I gotta pay for mine and it just doesn't sound fun to me at this point. Maybe next year,we'll see.

[Jackdog]

Fair enough Jack.

My pc is strictly for text sim gaming, and I have a new rig.

I really get into those type of games at this point of my life. I am getting a family computer Sunday. I'll hit you up for some reviews of your computer games. I am a Baseball and football nut so I am looking forward to some of those text based games.

[ScoopBrady]

Again, I game as a stress relief. I don't use my dishwasher or refrigerator to take the edge off.

F@#@ing liar!

I can see both sides of this and it really is a damn shame that the problems have been this frequent on these boards. It also sucks when guys like Jack and snaz have to wait around 4 weeks to get their systems back. I had a problem early on, had it replaced in a little over a week, and haven't had a problem since. Despite already having sent one back I don't even give it a second thought when turning it on.

One day I hope you do jump on the 360 bandwagon Jack because I'd love to game with you on Live sometime. Just as long as you don't put Dom on to kick my ass while you take the headset.