OT: Formula One

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:48 am

Edit - PK, stop editing your sodding posts, I went from agreeing to not agreeing to agreeing in the space of two minutes. Yes, it'll widen the gap between great and good, which is what I was attempting to say with my first edit. Button, for example, is likely to look better relative to the competition, where someone like Albers probably won't.

Psycho - 2006 aside, McLaren won nothing between the last race of 1993 (Senna in Australia) and the first of 1997 (Coulthard in Australia), but prior to that the last winless season I can think of for them would be 1980. They're back on top because they're a bloody good outfit, and for no other reason than that, so it's a bit of a shame that these things come to be clouded by whatever's gone on with Coughlan receiving these documents.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:01 am

Both me and PK have been pretty vocal about the farce racing F1 has become when you compare it to the product of the 60's, 70, 80, and very early 90's i.e. 1991. After that the new tech became Aero and it's even worse today. I would say that most of the grip of a modern F1 car is from aero instead of mechanical.

When I see cars who can't pass because they squirly if they get to close or can't pass because the car requires even more aero to successfully execute the pass shows how off track F1 has become. I can't even begin to count how many wings are on a modern F1 car.

Sam Michaels is now calling for a greater dependence on ground effects. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60494. That's a start but they need to do more like go back to slicks and cut down on all the winglets which do nothing more than to showcase a parade.

The most exciting form of racing is in the IRL/Champ Car/MotoGP. Bikes in general create downforce from ground effects and so do CC and IRL cars in addition to the front and rear wings.

My question is why can't the brilliant marketing genius and little general Bernie Eccelstone and Max Mosley not see this. Instead they constantly introduce new rules to make the matter even worse.

My solution is to put all the late 1980 F1 cars back on the grid and then you'll see some real racing.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:55 pm

Thanks for those links earlier in the thread PK, lots of cool sites out there.

The only other one I visit on a regular basis is here:

http://www.f1-live.com

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:09 pm

Rodster wrote:The most exciting form of racing is in the IRL/Champ Car/MotoGP. Bikes in general create downforce from ground effects and so do CC and IRL cars in addition to the front and rear wings.

Sorry to take this off the F1 topic...

I haven't watched enough of the 07 Champ Cars, but the IRL cars create way too much aero downforce, IMO. Did you watch the Iowa race? It is absurd to go flat-out for 250 laps around a sub-one mile track in an Indycar. The wings are huge, but also required in order for them to stay remotely safe on the high-banked tracks like Texas and Chicagoland. This year has been pretty bad for race-ability in the IRL, outside of Indy.

As far as aero goes, I think it would be neat if teams had a set, relatively small amount of area for wings to use however they want between the front and back and then slap HUGE tires on the things to increase mechanical grip and drag.

The other big problem with road-racing formula cars in general is that the braking areas are way too small to allow for much passing. That's one reason why I think NASCAR puts on the best road racing shows these days, those things take a long time to slow down!

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:23 pm

My problem with Aero in F1 is that it kills 95% of any attempts. In MotoGP it has almost no effect on passing because it's mostly produced by ground effects. If you had a chance to watch the Assen MotoGP last week it was incredible as Rossi won from 11th on the grid.

I don't have a problem with Aero in the IRL or CC because it's needed or the cars would sail in the air. In the defense of the IRL at least cars pass each other unlike F1 where it's a giant parade of million dollar race cars.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:36 am

Rodster wrote:If you had a chance to watch the Assen MotoGP last week it was incredible as Rossi won from 11th on the grid.

Yeah, that was an unbelievable ride by Rossi.

However, MotoGP bikes have MUCH more room to pass and get 2-3 wide in corners compared to open wheeled F1 cars on the same tracks. Plus, they can rub a little paint and bump a little when they get bunched up and it's not going to break their bikes like it will when F1 cars catch tires or hit spoilers.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:34 am

One for Mystic PK:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60525

Smart move from Red Bull in my book, the man is driving well of late.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:54 am

Crazy Dave is back for another year! My prediction was way off.

Rumor now is Sebastien Bourdais and Ralf Schumacher (WHY?) to Toro Rosso in 2008.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:22 pm

I'm glad to see DC back for another year. Solid veteran driver and a class guy. It looks like DC help turn the team in the right direction so he deserves another year.