MLB Off-Season Discussion

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:18 am

Cubs sign Ted Lilly for 50 gillion dollars. Jim Hendry checks himself into the hospital.

Despite what you might think, it was not a mental institution.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:02 am

hellbent wrote:
jLp vAkEr0 wrote:Glavine re-signs with the Mets.

Most baseball columnists predict Zito will follow.

I'll take that.

Now it looks like even if the Mets sign Zito, they're still going to have to make use of Victim Zambrano in the rotation instead of relegating him to reliever duty (which looked like a better fit for him lately). Apparently, they still feel the need to try to justify the horrible Zambrano - Kazmir deal by keeping him in the rotation.

.

Zambrano?

Who's said that Zambrano is even been considered for the big league club?

I don't see Zambrano pitching in a Mets uni anytime soon.

And Minaya doesn't have to justify Kazmir's trade since he wasn't even in the Mets organization when it got done.

About Alou, I'm pretty sure the Mets where trying to balance the lineup a bit more. At the end, it was to lefty heavy and struggled mightly agains;t southpaws. And Alou, *when healthy* still produces at the plate, specially against lefthanded pitching.

I would have liked to have Cliffy back, but I'm pretty sure he's going to command a much richer contract than Alou did. The Mets may use those savings on Zito.

Wright and Reyes can only get better. Maine and Perez showed some things in the postseason. I hope they give Pelfrey a shot at the back of the rotation. And still, they have some trading chips(Milledge, Humber?) to try to get some pitching help.

We'll see. I'll tell you what, Mets and Phills are going at it all year long for the NL East title in 07. Book it.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:44 am

Pujols and Bonds in the same lineup? Might not be too far fetched. I'm not saying I'd be happy about it though, but it'd be intriguing.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercuryn ... 184208.htm

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:22 am

Dodgers sign Gonzo a day after wrapping up Schmidt. They have been very busy this offseason.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2688711

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:24 am

sportdan30 wrote:Pujols and Bonds in the same lineup? Might not be too far fetched. I'm not saying I'd be happy about it though, but it'd be intriguing.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercuryn ... 184208.htm

I'd let Barry and his media circus go somewhere else.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:31 am

Sully wrote:Phillies acquired Freddie Garcia from the White Sox for minor leaguers Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd.

Good deal for the Phils.

Giddy up. Floyd has been a major bust. Gonzalez has a future but, IMO, its not as bright as many see it. Saw him pitch several times this summer and he is not the stud many have claimed he is. Just my opinion.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:35 am

RobVarak wrote:Cubs sign Ted Lilly for 50 gillion dollars. Jim Hendry checks himself into the hospital.

Despite what you might think, it was not a mental institution.

In a league where Sarge, Jr. is making $10 million per, the Lilly deal seems reasonably insane.

hellbent · Post by **hellbent** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:16 am

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:
hellbent wrote:
jLp vAkEr0 wrote:Glavine re-signs with the Mets.

Most baseball columnists predict Zito will follow.

I'll take that.
Now it looks like even if the Mets sign Zito, they're still going to have to make use of Victim Zambrano in the rotation instead of relegating him to reliever duty (which looked like a better fit for him lately). Apparently, they still feel the need to try to justify the horrible Zambrano - Kazmir deal by keeping him in the rotation.

.
We'll see. I'll tell you what, Mets and Phills are going at it all year long for the NL East title in 07. Book it.

I'm certainly not discounting a repeat run at the NL East title. I'm as big of a Mets fan as you'll find. Just voicing my concern about tinkering with the delicate balance that helped the Mets get back to the NLCS last season. I *might* come across as a little harsh when talking about Zambrano, given that I've been following his progress (or lack thereof) with both the Rays and the Mets.

As far as Alou goes, the talk was that if we were going to lose Floyd and Green (not a huge loss with the latter), we'd look to bring up Milledge or sign a utility guy that hits for average, has decent range and speed as well as be a high character guy in the clubhouse. In other words, that we'd get younger, get another stolen base threat in the lineup and help our pitching out with some extra defense. With Alou, the guy *does* hit, gives the lineup more versatility and doesn't look to hurt the team's chemistry at all - BUT - he has to stay healthy, especially if we do deal Milledge as has been rumored for a while.

Floyd's not a defensive wonder by any means, but he did provide a spark in the lineup on many occasions. That was one of the great things about last year's lineup (which thankfully should remain largely unchanged) - you would see the invevitable ups and downs by our hitters last year, but *someone* could and would always step up to provide a clutch hit when needed most. Clubhouse chemistry is difficult to achieve, so it is difficult to see Floyd being replaced by a player who does not appear to be such a significant upgrade to warrant the change. But again, that's just my two and a half cents. I'll gladly, happily in fact, eat my steaming helping of crow if Alou plays the whole season and helps us get back to the WS.

About Zambrano - while the press has been relatively quiet about the fate of Mr. Z, he remains on the roster and has substantial major league experience. While Minaya did not play a role in trading for Zambrano, he likely is trying to get the most value out of the players on his team. As such, it is in his interest to see Zambrano start or play significant innings, if for no other reason than to trade him. Cutting Zambrano or relegating him to the minors for the remainder of the season seems unlikely, especially given Randolph's penchant for playing veterans. I'm not criticizing Randolph here in any way, just stating a fact.

Another reason why Zambrano might factor into the equation is in the event we are struck by injuries again. Mets management did not want to see Maine and Perez starting in the postseason, but most of our starters were injured. Perez, in particular, was set to either be traded again or sent to the minors to work on his mechanics. Thankfully both of them produced big time in the postseason. However, both pitchers started in the postseason due to injuries, not because they won starting roles. As much as many Mets fans would like to see Maine and Perez in the starting rotation next year, that might not happen if Randolph would rather start veterans.

So if we lose out on Zito, who is likely to start? Glavine and El Duque for sure. However, El Duque has been on and off the injured list and wildly inconsistent. Pedro won't return until midseason, at best

- so that leaves Maine, Perez, Pelfrey, Vargas, and...Zambrano as potential starters #3-5 for most of the season. Humble, Williams, and Soler are more long shots, for various reasons I won't go into at length here.

Bannister would have likely merited strong consideration in the rotation had he been retained. The potential of having very few proven veteran starters available due to injuries increases the likelihood that Randolph would insert Zambrano into the starting rotation. Naturally, we Mets fans have seen what Maine and Perez can do, and salivate at the prospect of seeing Pelfrey rack up K's in Shea, but it's Randolph's show, and he has proven to be a great skipper, albeit one who strongly prefers veteran players. Of course, all of this is just speculation that this point, as there's still many deals to be done.

In the wake of the acquisition of Burgos, it turns out we might get a starter as a result getting an extra reliever in that deal. The Daily News reports today that we're considering pursuing a trade for the A's Danny Haren, with Heilman being part of the deal:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story ... 2102c.html

LGM!

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:22 pm

Brando70 wrote:
RobVarak wrote:Cubs sign Ted Lilly for 50 gillion dollars. Jim Hendry checks himself into the hospital.

Despite what you might think, it was not a mental institution.
In a league where Sarge, Jr. is making $10 million per, the Lilly deal seems reasonably insane.

T. Lilly is definitely not worth the 10 million per he'll be getting. He used the Jays as a bargaining chip and a day after J.P. Ricciardi offered him an offer in that range, he bailed out and said he would only signed for either the Cubs or Yankees. And after that scuffle with J. Gibbons last season, there was no way he would have stayed in TOR. Mr inconsistency with 15 wins and 13 losses worth that much? Enjoy CHI.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:32 pm

A. Pettite could return to the Yankees if he's offered a two year deal or one year with an option.

AJColossal · Post by **AJColossal** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:17 pm

10spro wrote:
Brando70 wrote:
RobVarak wrote:Cubs sign Ted Lilly for 50 gillion dollars. Jim Hendry checks himself into the hospital.

Despite what you might think, it was not a mental institution.
In a league where Sarge, Jr. is making $10 million per, the Lilly deal seems reasonably insane.
T. Lilly is definitely not worth the 10 million per he'll be getting. He used the Jays as a bargaining chip and a day after J.P. Ricciardi offered him an offer in that range, he bailed out and said he would only signed for either the Cubs or Yankees. And after that scuffle with J. Gibbons last season, there was no way he would have stayed in TOR. Mr inconsistency with 15 wins and 13 losses worth that much? Enjoy CHI.

Thanks, we will, as he was better than anything we would have pulled out of our ass from the farm system.

As for what a player is worth and what he isn't, I have no idea how you quantify that as a fan anymore. They're all overpaid beyond any sense of reason.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:09 am

In case anyone cares about B.Bond, he's to stay in SF.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2690042

hellbent · Post by **hellbent** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:56 pm

10spro wrote:A. Pettite could return to the Yankees if he's offered a two year deal or one year with an option.

And now its confirmed...Pettite returns to the dark side....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2691380

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:13 pm

hellbent wrote:
10spro wrote:A. Pettite could return to the Yankees if he's offered a two year deal or one year with an option.
And now its confirmed...Pettite returns to the dark side....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2691380

No, Pettitte's not going to Boston.

hellbent · Post by **hellbent** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:04 am

Mets lose Oliver to free agency yesterday, tab Zambrano as a free agent, and lock up Williams for next year:

http://www.silive.com/sportsflash/metro ... t=sisports

While I'm not happy about the Mets losing Oliver's versatility, I'm happy that they didn't simply extend an offer to Zambrano. Seems like they anticipate bringing in a new arm or two. Since the Rangers just signed Gagne ( http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2695054 ), maybe that will put a dent in the offer they supposedly made to Zito this week.

Kissrox · Post by **Kissrox** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:53 pm

Dice-K flying to Boston with Boras, Theo and Company!!!!

Airdog · Post by **Airdog** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:50 am

Blue Jays offer $126M/7-year deal to Vernon Wells.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=188250&hubname=

That's some serious dough. And yes, it's US dollars.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:45 am

Airdog wrote:Blue Jays offer $126M/7-year deal to Vernon Wells.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=188250&hubname=

That's some serious dough. And yes, it's US dollars.

Too bad he's not going to sign it. Next year it'll be worth 200 million...when he's a FA. I'm guessing it was just a goodwill gesture by the Jays...at least the fans can "think" they tried to sign him. Something tells me, he has a "deal" with the Jays...something along the lines of...we're going to tell the world that we offered you the money, and you won't take it...knowing he'll get more next winter.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:24 am

db, are you surprised the Braves released Marcus Giles?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:42 pm

Theo wrote:db, are you surprised the Braves released Marcus Giles?

Not at all. His production has went down considerably since his all-star 2003 season. He was arbitration eligible and he was going to make over 6 million a year. The Braves also have about 2 or 3 guys waiting in the minors (as well as Kelly Johnson, who was up two years ago before Tommy John surgery on his throwing elbow) that can all play a little second, and be a better leadoff hitter. So the writing was pretty much on the wall after his horrible '06 season...especially when he batted leadoff.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:08 pm

The owners are shooting themselves in the foot, you wonder if baseball can survive this $$$ contract madness. I still think the Jays need more pitching but with the likes of Lilly and others signing elsewhere, the attention focused back on Wells. If he signs, A.Rios and R.Jonhson will be part of any package that would bring a quality pitcher back.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:00 pm

I just hope we all remember these signings once the current labor agreement expires and we get another lockout. Not that I'm on the side of the players, but the owners are digging their own grave if they complain about high salaries a few years from now. I just can't believe how much money is available to throw around at mediocre major league players.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:52 pm

I read a small article in the USA Today a couple of weeks ago stating how much money the owners have. Now we see these incredibly high salaries to marginably talented players.

Well, I have an idea.

Instead of blowing all the money on these players and the problems it may pose in the future as matthewk has mentioned, why don't they scale back ticket prices. Make it so I can take my family to a ballgame without having to spend $200. Maybe give me a 20 ounce beer for less than $10.

Give me a decent f***in hot dog for less than $3.50.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:02 am

Guess I was wrong...Wells actually wanted to stay in Toronto I guess. That's good at least...that will keep Andruw's price down a bit seeing as how with his age and upside, Wells probably would be able to get a bigger contract than Andruw anyway.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:26 am

D. Wells is the heart of the Jays, and once P. Ricciardi failed to land some much needed pitching his shift changed to extending his contract. The original plan was to play the upcoming season and trade Wells for some quality pitchers instead. I like the guy, but if the Jays are to compete with NYY & BOS, they still need a consistent third and fourth arm in their rotation to do so.