World Series discusion

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:13 pm

Meltdown? That's why internet forums don't tell you anything really about the person who is typing other than how they feel about a particular instance. Hardly a meltdown, but it pisses me off to no end how MLB and the umps handled the situation. I'm not going to shoot myself or jump off a 10 story building. I'm just ticked when sports have controversey in something as huge as the Championship series.. doesn't matter what sport. Of course I'm a little more heated as my team is involved... oh well.

I still believe if it was Dusty Baker, LaRussa would have ran out of that dugout like a bat out of hell - damn, I just used a Meatloaf reference!

I just don't understand why everyone defends this asshole?

Oh well.... Game 3, LETS GO CARDINALS!! We need Carp to get his first W of the postseason.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:18 pm

MizzouRah wrote:Meltdown? That's why internet forums don't tell you anything really about the person who is typing other than how they feel about a particular instance. Hardly a meltdown, but it pisses me off to no end how MLB and the umps handled the situation.

Evidence of radioactive brain matter for the court:

Exhibit One:

MizzouRah wrote:We were owned with s*** on his hands. He tells everyone the ump didn't say anything to him and the ump says he told Kenny to wash his hands. What a f***in joke the way that was handled.

Guess what, do you know what was on his hands? Why don't you shut up about it then? We owned Detroit's ass in Game 1 WITHOUT any controversy. How about that?

I like Detroit, but F that piece of s*** Kenny Rogers.

Exhibit Two:

MizzouRah wrote:I mean really... it's so f'n obvious. Who CARES if he only used it on one pitch, it's CHEATING, that's it. CHEATING - 10 game suspension.. .bye bye Rogers. It would have made them go to their bullpen right away.

I rest my case, your honor ...

Take care,
PK

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:19 pm

I think it's a shame more investigating wasn't actually done during the game, because in my mind it's pretty clear he was cheating.

Before I saw any of the evidence of his past use, which is very damning in itself, the excuse Rogers gave was ludicrous. "It was a big clump of dirt," Rogers said after the game. "I didn't know it was there."

It's 30 degrees, pitching the biggest game of his life, and he doesn't notice a giant clump of dirt on his hand? That's laughable. Anyone who has ever tried to pitch a game when it's under 40 degrees will tell how important it is to keep your hands warm, and to simply not notice a giant clump of smudgy dirt on your palm isn't remotely plausible. The photo evidence of being there in the past takes a highly doubtful story and completely throws it out the window.

There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that the guy is lying, and as Spooky said, whether or not he actually needs the help to perform is entirely irrelevant if you're cheating.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:19 pm

Here's your answer:

"The problem is, he eats too many Tootsie Rolls, and he sat next to the heater," Tigers coach Andy Van Slyke said. "And when he eats, he eats left-handed."

The videos and pics from his previous postseason outings obviously show he's been going to the mound with a foreign substance on his hand. If LaRussa and the umps had pursued it, they probably could have had him tossed in the first. Now why this didn't happen is up for speculation.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:21 pm

I think there's an endorsement here for Rogers with Extra Strength Charmin. Maybe he needs more wider, more absorbent toilet paper.

Is Mr. Whipple in the house?

Take care,
PK

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:37 pm

Okay Cardinals fans, here's a hypothetical question for you: What if the series goes to a Game 7 and the day of the game a report comes out that proves that Pujols has been using steriods during the whole season. Should he be suspended for Game 7 or should it wait until the offseason?

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:57 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:Okay Cardinals fans, here's a hypothetical question for you: What if the series goes to a Game 7 and the day of the game a report comes out that proves that Pujols has been using steriods during the whole season. Should he be suspended for Game 7 or should it wait until the offseason?

None of the above. They will name a section of their new park after him.

Cards fans.I am a Reds fan and a native of Detroit. I will bust your balls anytime I get the chance.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:02 pm

webdanzer wrote:Here's your answer:

"The problem is, he eats too many Tootsie Rolls, and he sat next to the heater," Tigers coach Andy Van Slyke said. "And when he eats, he eats left-handed."

The videos and pics from his previous postseason outings obviously show he's been going to the mound with a foreign substance on his hand. If LaRussa and the umps had pursued it, they probably could have had him tossed in the first. Now why this didn't happen is up for speculation.

I heard on the Dan Patrick Show today that a big fuss wasn't made because it's very common for pitchers to use Pine Tar in cold weather. Better grip and control. Not my opionion,but it makes sense because of the way LaRussa and the Umps acted.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:31 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:Okay Cardinals fans, here's a hypothetical question for you: What if the series goes to a Game 7 and the day of the game a report comes out that proves that Pujols has been using steriods during the whole season. Should he be suspended for Game 7 or should it wait until the offseason?

He should be suspended, period. He violated the rules.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:32 pm

I dont care what te pitchers do...As long as these clows are allowed to and are glorified for using HGH.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:38 pm

pk500 wrote:
MizzouRah wrote:Meltdown? That's why internet forums don't tell you anything really about the person who is typing other than how they feel about a particular instance. Hardly a meltdown, but it pisses me off to no end how MLB and the umps handled the situation.
Evidence of radioactive brain matter for the court:

Exhibit One:

MizzouRah wrote:We were owned with s*** on his hands. He tells everyone the ump didn't say anything to him and the ump says he told Kenny to wash his hands. What a f***in joke the way that was handled.

Guess what, do you know what was on his hands? Why don't you shut up about it then? We owned Detroit's ass in Game 1 WITHOUT any controversy. How about that?

I like Detroit, but F that piece of s*** Kenny Rogers.
Exhibit Two:

MizzouRah wrote:I mean really... it's so f'n obvious. Who CARES if he only used it on one pitch, it's CHEATING, that's it. CHEATING - 10 game suspension.. .bye bye Rogers. It would have made them go to their bullpen right away.

I rest my case, your honor ...

Take care,
PK

We the jury find the defendant, MizzouRah guilty of "Meltdown".

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:46 pm

Steve Palermo, umpire supervisor for MLB, was just on NYRadio's "Mike and the Mad Dog show." Apparently baseball's line to explain away the 'dirt' that appeared on multiple occasions in the same spot on Roger's pitching hand is that, 'you know, baseball players are full of superstition and habit, and so maybe he put a spot of dirt on his hand before each start because of that.'

Makes the 'Tootsie Roll' explanation seem like genius.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:02 pm

Paul Molitor, on the local sports station up here is talking about how common pine tar use is for pitchers. He believes it is a gray area that MLB needs to clarify.

Just thought I'd add that to the debate.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:26 pm

Dave wrote:Paul Molitor, on the local sports station up here is talking about how common pine tar use is for pitchers. He believes it is a gray area that MLB needs to clarify.

Just thought I'd add that to the debate.

That's what I heard as well. 70 to 80 % use it for a better grip.

It’s just like umpires don't carefully watch second base on double plays and occasionally miss a phantom touch. It's accepted. That's why the Umps and LaRussa didn't make a big deal out of it. Cards have pitchers doing the same damn thing. Series tied 1-1. People need to get over it and move on.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:55 pm

JackDog wrote:
Dave wrote:Paul Molitor, on the local sports station up here is talking about how common pine tar use is for pitchers. He believes it is a gray area that MLB needs to clarify.

Just thought I'd add that to the debate.
That's what I heard as well. 70 to 80 % use it for a better grip.

It’s just like umpires don't carefully watch second base on double plays and occasionally miss a phantom touch. It's accepted. That's why the Umps and LaRussa didn't make a big deal out of it. Cards have pitchers doing the same damn thing. Series tied 1-1. People need to get over it and move on.

Yeah, Weaver was caught with the same thing on his hand. This kind of reasoning makes me laugh out loud.

Maybe Carpenter can use pine tar as well since it's a "grey" area. Hell, maybe Encarnacion can snort coke so he moves to the ball faster.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:50 pm

MizzouRah wrote:Yeah, Weaver was caught with the same thing on his hand. This kind of reasoning makes me laugh out loud.

Maybe Carpenter can use pine tar as well since it's a "grey" area. Hell, maybe Encarnacion can snort coke so he moves to the ball faster.

Just saw a link to this article about pitchers using pine tar from last season--was Todd Jones on the Marlins at the time? Pretty funny that he's on the Tigers now.

http://www.sportingnews.com/experts/tod ... 50623.html

Maybe Carpenter does use pine tar; maybe he just conceals it better so it doesn't look like he ran out of TP dropping some kids off at the pool before the game. If it was that big of a deal, wouldn't LaRussa have reacted differently, his friendship with Leyland be damned?

Didn't the Mets collect any ball they could from Mike Scott starts in the 1986 NLCS and found they all had the exact same scuff mark? So this isn't the first time MLB has chosen not to pay attention to potential doctoring.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:46 am

Zeppo wrote:Since when was dirt a 'foreign substance' on a baseball field? As yet, nothing has been shown to indicate it was anything other than dirt. If it was something that was helping him pitch better, what can explain the total lack of drop-off in performance after the first inning when there was no smudge on his hand?

1) You don't need to wash your hands to remove "dirt". That can be done with your shirt sleeve, your pant leg, etc... you just wipe it off. Obviously, it must have been sticky or he could have just cleaned it off right then and there.

2) Just because he washed his hands after the 1st inning and continued to dominate does not mean that he stopped cheating. It has been pointed out that Rogers was wearing a batting practice cap, with a dark bill underneath, rather than the normal light color. This would help hide an illegal substance and Rogers goes to his cap before each and every pitch. He may have also had some in his glove (it was even mentioned during the broadcast that it was odd to see Rogers keep his glove on well after the game was over). I think it's pretty obvious that he had something to hide.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:39 am

Talk about a witch hunt.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:48 am

MizzouRah wrote:
JackDog wrote:
Dave wrote:Paul Molitor, on the local sports station up here is talking about how common pine tar use is for pitchers. He believes it is a gray area that MLB needs to clarify.

Just thought I'd add that to the debate.
That's what I heard as well. 70 to 80 % use it for a better grip.

It’s just like umpires don't carefully watch second base on double plays and occasionally miss a phantom touch. It's accepted. That's why the Umps and LaRussa didn't make a big deal out of it. Cards have pitchers doing the same damn thing. Series tied 1-1. People need to get over it and move on.
Yeah, Weaver was caught with the same thing on his hand. This kind of reasoning makes me laugh out loud.

Maybe Carpenter can use pine tar as well since it's a "grey" area. Hell, maybe Encarnacion can snort coke so he moves to the ball faster.

Or maybe your star power hitter uses HGH.

Unthinkable huh?

Busch Stadium should be renamed Balco Stadium.

Glad You had a good laugh. But the "reasoning" is coming from former players that know it as a fact. Who should I believe? A Card fan that uses the word "we" when he refers to his favorite team or MLB players? HMMM.

If you think your beloved Cards are clean and don't use whatever they can to win then you also must believe in Santa. This from the manager of your Cards.

It's commonly known within baseball that pitchers sometimes put some sort of substance on their hands in chilly weather to help them grip the ball. A little bit, that's OK; too much, that borders on cheating.

"There's a line that I think that defines the competition. And you can sneak over the line, because we're all fighting for the edge," La Russa said. "I always think, 'Does it go to the point of abuse?' And that's where you start snapping."

Go Tigers!!

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:56 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:Talk about a witch hunt.

No s***. What can we blame for the Reds and Braves not making the playoffs?

It couldn't be the simple fact they got their asses kicked. Got to be some cheating involved.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:53 am

JackDog wrote:
MizzouRah wrote:
JackDog wrote: That's what I heard as well. 70 to 80 % use it for a better grip.

It’s just like umpires don't carefully watch second base on double plays and occasionally miss a phantom touch. It's accepted. That's why the Umps and LaRussa didn't make a big deal out of it. Cards have pitchers doing the same damn thing. Series tied 1-1. People need to get over it and move on.
Yeah, Weaver was caught with the same thing on his hand. This kind of reasoning makes me laugh out loud.

Maybe Carpenter can use pine tar as well since it's a "grey" area. Hell, maybe Encarnacion can snort coke so he moves to the ball faster.
Or maybe your star power hitter uses HGH. Unthinkable huh? Busch Stadium should be renamed Balco Stadium.

Glad You had a good laugh. But the "reasoning" is coming from former players that know it as a fact. Who should I believe? A Card fan that uses the word "we" when he refers to his favorite team or MLB players? HMMM.

If you think your beloved Cards are clean and don't use whatever they can to win then you also must believe in Santa. This from the manager of your Cards.

It's commonly known within baseball that pitchers sometimes put some sort of substance on their hands in chilly weather to help them grip the ball. A little bit, that's OK; too much, that borders on cheating.

"There's a line that I think that defines the competition. And you can sneak over the line, because we're all fighting for the edge," La Russa said. "I always think, 'Does it go to the point of abuse?' And that's where you start snapping."

Go Tigers!!

Maybe the world isn't round? Who really cares?? That freaking idiot Kenny Rogers was caught on camera cheating. A bit different than saying Pujols is on HGH. In fact, is that the best you can come up with, lol!

Say all you will, but I think most people know he was cheating and that's sad, especially in a WS game. Oh welll, GO CARDINALS!!

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:17 am

LOL. Sure, Pujols could be cheating, but you're just throwing it out there. Heck, I think Griffey Jr. is cheating. I'm just throwing it out there. LOL. Hilarious.

There's a game from July of this year against the A's that shows Rogers has the same "clump of dirt" on his hand. LOL. Geez, that guy can't stop playing in the dirt. LOL. It's not a coincidence. Same "clump of dirt" for the division series and league championship series. The guy is a fraud. A 42 year old who's had a career ERA of over 8 in the playoffs, and all of a sudden he's pitching lights out. Sorry, something smells fishy.

See, these aren't accusations, Jack....kinda like you're making about Pujols. Like I'm making about Griffey Jr.

Rogers is in full plain view. He's an idiot who's not smart enough to know how to hide his pine tar. Julian Tavarez was a moron as well couple years back. Except, he got caught. And fined, and suspended. Rogers too should have been kicked out for the series. In actuality, I'm more upset with LaRussa than Rogers for not doing a damn thing. I could care less if you're playing against your good friend. You're supposed to be backing your players. Then, he proceeds to go on and put a gag order on the players, so it doesn't get out of hand.

I can understand where you're coming from, Jack. If it was the Reds, I'd probably be busting your balls too. Although, the Reds have been consisently bad for a while now, I'd probably feel sorry for them. Then again, how could I root for Griffey Jr. who's on HGH. Oh right, that's an accusation. LOL. Rogers was in plain sight. I know you guys are just trying to get under our skin. You can't be that blind!

Go Cards!

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:25 am

sportdan30 wrote:The guy is a fraud. A 42 year old who's had a career ERA of over 8 in the playoffs, and all of a sudden he's pitching lights out. Sorry, something smells fishy.

SMALL SAMPLE SIZE. If you look at Rogers' career postseason stats now, they are remarkably in-line with his career averages.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:58 am

"Chewing yesterday's breakfast"?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:50 pm

I thought Cardinal fans were the smartest in baseball? At least that's what the polls show whenever they do one of those completely ridiculous surveys. If that was true...don't you guys think you'd realize that every team has cheaters...EVERY team. That doesn't exclude my Braves, or JD's Reds...EVERY. Sure, they may not stick tar or whatever on their hands in plain view of HD cameras, but every team has cheaters, that's all there is to it. As soon as you accept that fact, you can enjoy baseball for what it is (or completely hate it, whichever the case may be).

Stop whining and just enjoy the fact that your team actually made the postseason and is playing very well at the moment and still has a damn good shot with the pitching they have setup for the rest of the series.