"Friday Night Lights"

[bkrich83]

I like the series, which usually mean it'll get canned in no time (see Mind of the Married Man, Sports Night, Lucky Louie for further details).

Tony

Same boat here. I really like the series so far, which is a death sentence for TV shows. If I really like a show, it never seems to make it out of Season 1.

[pk500]

Also, media day with TV interviews of high school athletes? Yes it's suppose to be Texas high school football but you would think they would try to shelter the kids a little from the glare of the spotlight.

Have you ever seen the Dallas Morning News on a Saturday morning? Back in the 90s, there was a separate sports section just for high school football results and game coverage, at least 16 pages.

When I worked for NHRA, it was as tough to try and get area media to come to cover Friday night qualifying due to high school football as it was Saturday for college or Sunday for the Cowboys.

Take the interest in high school football in NorCal and multiply it by about 10, and then you'll approach the coverage and interest in high school football in Texas.

I think the Morning News weekly high school football section probably still exists now and might be even bigger. Kaz, you're in the Big D: Does the Morning News still run the big high school football section on Saturdays?

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

P.S. to WCO: KWES is the NBC affiliate that covers Odessa, Texas, home of Permian High, the school chronicled in the book and movie version of "Friday Night Lights" and mimicked in the TV version by the fictitious school in the show.

Check out the Sports front page of the station's Web site:

http://www.kwes.com/kwes/sports.htm

It's nearly all high school football. Yep, those kids are really sheltered down there from the media.

Take care,
PK

[wco81]

That's why I asked, because historically, the colleges in that region ran things like the wishbone instead of the pro sets. Of course, schools like Texas Tech run wide open offenses.

But I think part of it was for dramatic reasons. The question is whether Saracen is going to become proficient at a high-powered offense. Seems like the coach's plans depend on that more than anything else.

He starts to doubt if they can win another game again unless Saracen gets the offense.

But at the HS level, you would think it's more about talent disparities than schemes which make the difference between winning and losing.

QB may be the most important position but you would think this team became the highest ranked in the state because they have talent all over the roster, with bigger linemen than most, etc.

So while it's more interesting dramatically for the coach to wonder if they can win with Saracen, they should be able to get by most teams, even if Street is suppose to be the greatest prospect since Elway or something.

[icvu42]

Just out of curiousity... how many regular season games do high schools in your area play?

Here in Central New York, they only play 7 regular season games, (down from 8 when I played back in the 80's ). This is the last week of the regular season, then the playoffs start next weekend.

This is one reason I think there is little to no talent in this area. The season is just too short. Come the end of October, most of the teams will be done, and those kids will be training for their winter sports instead of developing their football skills.

Rick

[pk500]

So while it's more interesting dramatically for the coach to wonder if they can win with Saracen, they should be able to get by most teams, even if Street is suppose to be the greatest prospect since Elway or something.

It's a TV show, not a prep recruiting service.

Take care,
PK

[Kazuya]

I think the Morning News weekly high school football section probably still exists now and might be even bigger. Kaz, you're in the Big D: Does the Morning News still run the big high school football section on Saturdays?

There's a big ass section that appears every Saturday in the Morning News called, "High School Replay" that is bigger than the Cowboys/NFL coverage on Monday. I'm looking at the section from Sept. 30 now. Big giant photos on every page, feature articles w/box scores and quotes for the big games of the week, capsules and box scores for all other games in Class 5A, 4A, 3A, 2A and Privates. Separate Page for rankings, with all of the area and state-ranked teams and how they fared. Sidebar for top performances in rushing, passing, etc. Results for over 200 games statewide. More content online through link.

Having said that, the show is still a bit over the top

[bkrich83]

That's why I asked, because historically, the colleges in that region ran things like the wishbone instead of the pro sets. Of course, schools like Texas Tech run wide open offenses.

But I think part of it was for dramatic reasons. The question is whether Saracen is going to become proficient at a high-powered offense. Seems like the coach's plans depend on that more than anything else.

He starts to doubt if they can win another game again unless Saracen gets the offense.

But at the HS level, you would think it's more about talent disparities than schemes which make the difference between winning and losing.

QB may be the most important position but you would think this team became the highest ranked in the state because they have talent all over the roster, with bigger linemen than most, etc.

So while it's more interesting dramatically for the coach to wonder if they can win with Saracen, they should be able to get by most teams, even if Street is suppose to be the greatest prospect since Elway or something.

Where in the world are you coming up with this?

[pk500]

That's why I asked, because historically, the colleges in that region ran things like the wishbone instead of the pro sets. Of course, schools like Texas Tech run wide open offenses.

But I think part of it was for dramatic reasons. The question is whether Saracen is going to become proficient at a high-powered offense. Seems like the coach's plans depend on that more than anything else.

He starts to doubt if they can win another game again unless Saracen gets the offense.

But at the HS level, you would think it's more about talent disparities than schemes which make the difference between winning and losing.

QB may be the most important position but you would think this team became the highest ranked in the state because they have talent all over the roster, with bigger linemen than most, etc.

So while it's more interesting dramatically for the coach to wonder if they can win with Saracen, they should be able to get by most teams, even if Street is suppose to be the greatest prospect since Elway or something.

Where in the world are you coming up with this?

Exactly. Is he watching this as a TV drama or breaking it down like game film, playing wannabe Ron Jaworski in Edge High School Football Matchup?

WTF?

Take care,
PK

[wco81]

Right, you want to quibble about whether a fictional spinal injury victim can move his head in a few days.

But you got a problem if I question the premise of this fictional powerhouse team's state title hopes being in danger because they have to play a second-stringer?

The lower levels you go, disparities in talent are wider. Maybe it's different in Texas but top-ranked high schools most everywhere else absolutely crush most teams. And they're deep at almost every position.

So that is why you have a number of RBs for instance who run for 300 yards several times a season because they are way more talented and play on teams with more talent.

Put it this way the pilot episode had a thrilling finish as the team pulls out a last second victory over a team they were suppose to handle easily.

If every episode depicted last-second victories because the producers and writers believed that made for suspenseful and entertaining television, would you buy it? Would you think that it's believable, that the top-ranked team in Texas would have last-second game-winning plays in every game they play?

The show's been entertaining. But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it without noticing some inconsistencies in the premise.

[bkrich83]

Right, you want to quibble about whether a fictional spinal injury victim can move his head in a few days.

But you got a problem if I question the premise of this fictional powerhouse team's state title hopes being in danger because they have to play a second-stringer?

The lower levels you go, disparities in talent are wider. Maybe it's different in Texas but top-ranked high schools most everywhere else absolutely crush most teams. And they're deep at almost every position.

So that is why you have a number of RBs for instance who run for 300 yards several times a season because they are way more talented and play on teams with more talent.

Put it this way the pilot episode had a thrilling finish as the team pulls out a last second victory over a team they were suppose to handle easily.

If every episode depicted last-second victories because the producers and writers believed that made for suspenseful and entertaining television, would you buy it? Would you think that it's believable, that the top-ranked team in Texas would have last-second game-winning plays in every game they play?

The show's been entertaining. But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it without noticing some inconsistencies in the premise.

Which would all be true, if your theories on the X's and O's and talent disparity were true.

[pk500]

Right, you want to quibble about whether a fictional spinal injury victim can move his head in a few days.

But you got a problem if I question the premise of this fictional powerhouse team's state title hopes being in danger because they have to play a second-stringer?

We each made one reference to it and then moved on. We're not trying to be the bastard offspring of Merril Hoge and Ron Jaworski and try to win friends and influence authority with a limited knowledge of high school football (definitely not the case with BK).

Hence, the difference.

If every episode depicted last-second victories because the producers and writers believed that made for suspenseful and entertaining television, would you buy it? Would you think that it's believable, that the top-ranked team in Texas would have last-second game-winning plays in every game they play?

No. But we've seen two episodes and one concluded game. That doesn't make a trend.

The show's been entertaining. But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it without noticing some inconsistencies in the premise.

Multiple times, in your case, after just two episodes. Is that horse's carcass flat yet?

Take care,
PK

[wco81]

Which would all be true, if your theories on the X's and O's and talent disparity were true.

That's not a theory. It's an observation.

Maybe it's different in Texas but in other places, what differentiates teams is talent, not some strategic innovation at the high school level.

If the latter were the case, there would be a lot more high school coaches going directly to head coaching at the next level. And in the few cases where a successful HS head coach gets hired directly as a head coach in the NCAA (as opposed to starting as an assistant), it has at least as much to do with his recruiting (talent again) abilities as much as some innovative offense he's developed at the HS level.

Mike Stoops was a great defensive coach at Oklahoma when he was DC there but he hasn't had anywhere near the same plaudits as HC at Arizona because he hasn't yet been able to recruit the same kind of talent.

The old Green Bay Packers could sometimes telegraph what play they were going to run and opponents couldn't stop them because they were so much better. Aren't there some HS teams which are also so much better than some of the opponents they play?

[wco81]

Right, you want to quibble about whether a fictional spinal injury victim can move his head in a few days.

But you got a problem if I question the premise of this fictional powerhouse team's state title hopes being in danger because they have to play a second-stringer?

We each made one reference to it and then moved on. We're not trying to be the bastard offspring of Merril Hoge and Ron Jaworski and try to win friends and influence authority with a limited knowledge of high school football (definitely not the case with BK).

Hence, the difference.

I didn't impress you? Shucks, I failed to win friends and influence people.

That is why I said at the outset I had questions about Texas HS football.

But even though I've never seen a single game of Texas HS football -- which must be some special breed where the formula for winning is different than anywhere else -- I can still point out the lack of internal consistency in a show about a Texas HS football team.

If there's a movie or a show about Indy Car Racing, are you saying only you would be able to evaluate the the logic of the plot out of all the forum members here?

[SoMisss2000]

One final observation: Coach Taylor's wife is one hot MILF.

jack bauer was hittin that in the last season of 24.

[SoMisss2000]

WCO, I think Missouri is starting a sophmore QB (Chase Daniel) this year from Southlake, TX, right down the hwy from Dallas. He played at Southlake Carroll, one of the teams that played on ESPN last year. I think his Dad is the coach, interviewed with the Cowboys for the Tight Ends coach position during the off-season.

[SoMisss2000]

Also, media day with TV interviews of high school athletes? Yes it's suppose to be Texas high school football but you would think they would try to shelter the kids a little from the glare of the spotlight.

Have you ever seen the Dallas Morning News on a Saturday morning? Back in the 90s, there was a separate sports section just for high school football results and game coverage, at least 16 pages.

When I worked for NHRA, it was as tough to try and get area media to come to cover Friday night qualifying due to high school football as it was Saturday for college or Sunday for the Cowboys.

Take the interest in high school football in NorCal and multiply it by about 10, and then you'll approach the coverage and interest in high school football in Texas.

I think the Morning News weekly high school football section probably still exists now and might be even bigger. Kaz, you're in the Big D: Does the Morning News still run the big high school football section on Saturdays?

Take care,
PK

yep, high school football still has it's own section of the sports page. I'm not a native Texan, so naturally, I don't get HS Football in this state. I've been saying I was going to check out a game one of these days. High school ball is huge in the metroplex.

[Inuyasha]

What was that game that put Texas HS Football on the map (late 80s?)? I remember it was some ridiculous comeback where the team that was down 4 scores converted 4 onside kicks in a row and scored on each of them to take the lead with only a few seconds left. Then of course, they had did a regular kick off and the other team that choked the lead ran it back for a 100 yard kickoff return td to win the game with no time left.

I still remember that game even though I must have seen it only on the local news telecast. It would be nice to see that whole sequence of that game again. Unforgettable.

[bkrich83]

Which would all be true, if your theories on the X's and O's and talent disparity were true.

That's not a theory. It's an observation.

Maybe it's different in Texas but in other places, what differentiates teams is talent, not some strategic innovation at the high school level.

If the latter were the case, there would be a lot more high school coaches going directly to head coaching at the next level. And in the few cases where a successful HS head coach gets hired directly as a head coach in the NCAA (as opposed to starting as an assistant), it has at least as much to do with his recruiting (talent again) abilities as much as some innovative offense he's developed at the HS level.

Mike Stoops was a great defensive coach at Oklahoma when he was DC there but he hasn't had anywhere near the same plaudits as HC at Arizona because he hasn't yet been able to recruit the same kind of talent.

The old Green Bay Packers could sometimes telegraph what play they were going to run and opponents couldn't stop them because they were so much better. Aren't there some HS teams which are also so much better than some of the opponents they play?

So far off I don't even know where to begin.

I've literally seen hundreds of teams, beat teams that are head and shoulders more talented, athletic and deeper than they are, but they either outcoached, out schemed or simply outplayed their opponent. Even at the HS level , talent alone does not win ball games. That's why you see so many of the teams running some of the schemes they do, it allows them to compete with bettert teams despite not having the athletes.

As far as jumping to the next level, or Stoops, do you have any idea what goes in to coaching a college program, beyond X's and O's and recruiting? I mean really, have you ever really been around a college football program, or even a legit HS one?

[wco81]

I've seen teams with less talent win beat teams with superior talent too, like Notre Dame last year.

But at the end of the day, Charlie Weiss couldn't make his Patriots offense beat superior opponents like USC.

USC has great coaching too, but when Jarrett takes a short pass and runs by the whole ND defense, that's not scheme.

One thing though, when we talk about talent, a lot of it has to do with great coaching, especially player development. Coaches can have players with the greatest raw athletic ability. But unless the coaches develop the skills of those players, athletic ability is meaningless. In addition, ability to motivate the players is underappreciated. Not every coach is able to bring out the best in their players, make them work hard, become confident and committed to the program.

I think that's Carroll's strength. Sure he gets great recruits and a lot of schools don't know how to beat his blitz packages. But just about every one of his players, including those whom he originally didn't recruit, are doing well in the NFL. Not just the top 10 picks but guys like Tatupu. Lott believed in Carroll back in the Jets days, which says a lot.

[XXXIV]

Never mind

[pk500]

If there's a movie or a show about Indy Car Racing, are you saying only you would be able to evaluate the the logic of the plot out of all the forum members here?

No, I'd probably watch it as a drama instead of breaking it down frame by frame for motorsports authenticity.

Take care,
PK

[bkrich83]

If there's a movie or a show about Indy Car Racing, are you saying only you would be able to evaluate the the logic of the plot out of all the forum members here?

No, I'd probably watch it as a drama instead of breaking it down frame by frame for motorsports authenticity.

Take care,
PK

Exactly.

[bkrich83]

I've seen teams with less talent win beat teams with superior talent too, like Notre Dame last year.

But at the end of the day, Charlie Weiss couldn't make his Patriots offense beat superior opponents like USC.

USC has great coaching too, but when Jarrett takes a short pass and runs by the whole ND defense, that's not scheme.

One thing though, when we talk about talent, a lot of it has to do with great coaching, especially player development. Coaches can have players with the greatest raw athletic ability. But unless the coaches develop the skills of those players, athletic ability is meaningless. In addition, ability to motivate the players is underappreciated. Not every coach is able to bring out the best in their players, make them work hard, become confident and committed to the program.

I think that's Carroll's strength. Sure he gets great recruits and a lot of schools don't know how to beat his blitz packages. But just about every one of his players, including those whom he originally didn't recruit, are doing well in the NFL. Not just the top 10 picks but guys like Tatupu. Lott believed in Carroll back in the Jets days, which says a lot.

Ummm. Ok.

[JackB1]

They did a marathon last week of all the episodes and I watched a few and got totally hooked on this show. I know I am late to this party, but I think the writing is great! I am up to episode 5 right now and I want to catch up before the new season starts on Wed. What a great show! I love how things dont always go the way the typical hollywood football shows/movies go. Like when that backup QB got stopped 1 foot short of the game winning TD. You would have sworn he was going in for the TD.

Anyway...looking forward to the rest of the episodes and the next season!