Computer Advice Needed...PC or MAC?

[Spooky]

First off, please do NOT post a reply to this thread if you are going to bash one system or another or begin a huge debate. This thread is for mature, helpful responses only (hopefully). Thanks!

I am in the market for a new computer and would love some advice and opinions on what direction to go. I am torn between getting an iMac G5 or a new Windows based PC or laptop that runs Windows Media Center. My budget is around $1500.

Oh, and BTW, I am selling my Sony VAIO laptop if anyone here is interested. It is currently on eBay but I would gladly pull it of if someone here were interested. Here is the link to the listing so you can see the pics and the specs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-VAIO-Laptop-PC ... dZViewItem

My reserve is $800 and I am hoping to get around $850-$900 for it.

Anyway…

I am looking to switch to an iMac for a few reasons. First off, for a change of pace. I also love the design of the hardware and interface of the OS X. Also, the main things I use a computer for as supposedly MAC’s strong points (internet, video, pictures – Photoshop, music – iTunes and iPod). However, I am intrigued by Windows Media Center for the PC platform. Does anyone here use the WMC currently? If so, any comments?

Getting a nice PC with a large hard drive to use with the Windows Media Center along with my 360 to stream the media throughout the house is very enticing. I like the thought of being able to access all my media on both our family room TV and my bedroom TV as well as it replacing my TiVo. My only real gripe with the WMC is that it cannot do HDTV through cable or DTV yet. That’s a real bummer.

I know the new MAC’s have that local media center program, Front Row, but I don’t think it is able to be streamed to other media devices, is it? I know there is no DVR type function. Which is still okay since I do have TiVo and a HD-DVR from Comcast.

The other thing is that I even though I don’t think I am going to go the laptop route again, I like the portability of the iMac a lot. A desktop doesn’t give me that.

So, given my need and my dilemma, I would love some feedback and opinions to assist in my decision. What would you guys suggest for $1500? (Sport73 need not respond because we know what his answer will be… )

Thanks in advance.

[dbdynsty25]

The debate is fairly simple.

If you want to game and stream stuff to the 360...go with the PC.

If you want to just have a more stable work environment for browsing, email and of course all of the editing Macs are known for, then go with the Mac.

It would seem to me you'd want to go with the first one though because integrating the 360 would seem to outweigh the advantages that the Mac gives you. At least it would to me.

[ScoopBrady]

Spooky,
Take a half day off and swing by my work (I'm in Burr Ridge) to check out a G5. They're definitely sweet looking but they're not for everybody. The OS is way different than what you're used to and you'd be awfully upset if you spent $1500 on a machine you don't like to use. I love the G5's performance but the OS interface leaves a lot to be desired (no right click, no scroll bar drives me nuts!).

[sportdan30]

Spooky,

You really think this isn't going to start a debate?

In any case, I've had my IMac G5 since the beginning of August and it's been a fabulous experience so far. Sure, you can get a heck of a lot more for less if you go the PC route, but what was important for me was the stability of the system, the reliability, and ease of use. Thus far, I've experienced all three with the IMac that I never ever experieced with PCs.

[sportdan30]

Spooky,
Take a half day off and swing by my work (I'm in Burr Ridge) to check out a G5. They're definitely sweet looking but they're not for everybody. The OS is way different than what you're used to and you'd be awfully upset if you spent $1500 on a machine you don't like to use. I love the G5's performance but the OS interface leaves a lot to be desired (no right click, no scroll bar drives me nuts!).

I just purchased a Logitech cordless mouse with two buttons as well as a scroll bar. Works flawlessly. I would agree the one button mouse sucks.

[Spooky]

Thanks for the reponses guys. So let me ask this...

For those that have switched from a long time PC user to a MAC, was it difficult, are there things youy miss about Windows that you just cannot do on a MAC?

I know the 'right click' thing would take some getting used to, but I also know that the G5's have a new mouse that hase a scroll function as well as side buttons.

Besides gaming, can anyone see any real disadvantages to getting a MAC for my useage (again, internet, pictures, music, video)?

Also still curious if any one uses Windows Media Center frequently.

[Sport73]

I'm a Mac-fanatic, so take my comments with a grain of salt...BUT.

The Mac is simply a more stable, user-friendly, attractive, and more powerful/intergrated operating system than Windows in its current (XP etc.) form. This isn't just my opinion, it's almost universally agreed upon by media pundits and technologists.

The biggest benefit of the Mac platform is certainly for creative pursuits. While Macs sometimes seem expensive, if you calculate the value of the bundled software for Music, Photos, Movie-making, DVD authoring, Music creation, Internet, e-Mail, Calendar etc., MOST OF WHICH EXCEEDS THE QUALITY OF SOFTWARE YOU BUY FOR WINDOWS - the Mac is actually quite a value (plus, Macs tend to hold their value much better than PC's. An iMac from 2 years ago still sells for just under $1,000 on eBay).

Front Row, the new 'Media Center' application bundled with the G5 will give you the 10 ft. remote-controlled media experience that, while simpler than XP Media Center, is generally regarded as further proof of Apple's ability to build aesthetically pleasing, easy-to-use software that "Just works". If you need Tivo functions etc. , you can add EyeTV fairly cheaply and get TV recording etc.

There are only 2 reasons I could recommend a PC:

1. XBox 360 integration - While I suspect a creative team will find a way to share up a Mac's media with the 360, it won't be on the first day. If you expect access to more than music or photos (which you could easily get by plugging in your iPod), you will want to have a Media Center PC.

2. Gaming. If you want to play PC games, get a PC. The Mac is currently just not a gaming platform. The switch to Intel next year might change that (with potential benefit for G5 owners due to the 'Universal Binary' tools being made available).

The experience I use to sum up the Mac is the one that got me to switch. I had a weak, underpowered, 400Mhz G3 Powerbook that I got from work. Took it home and started using it as my web-browsing, e-mail, iTunes laptop because it had a wireless card. OSX is simply stunning in operation/functionality/aesthetic, and made using a computer FUN again. More importantly, I remember popping open the laptop (which I kept next to my couch) after around 8 weeks of use and realizing: "I've never re-booted this thing. I've never had a freeze-up. I've never had a virus, infact I'm not running any anti-virus software. I haven't seen a pop-up while browsing. I HAVE simply picked it up, browsed the web, shared photos, sent e-mail, and managed my music and the computer/OS never got in my way."

I was a Windows guy until March 2002, when this experience forever changed my thinking. I'm now one of the zealouts...That should say something. I've since bought about 5 Macs between work and home, and all the associated toys.

Go Mac, you won't regret it.

Plus, I offer free tech support to DSP members who switch to the Mac platform.

[Sport73]

Thanks for the reponses guys. So let me ask this...

For those that have switched from a long time PC user to a MAC, was it difficult, are there things youy miss about Windows that you just cannot do on a MAC?

I know the 'right click' thing would take some getting used to, but I also know that the G5's have a new mouse that hase a scroll function as well as side buttons.

Besides gaming, can anyone see any real disadvantages to getting a MAC for my useage (again, internet, pictures, music, video)?

Also still curious if any one uses Windows Media Center frequently.

There is nothing, and I'm not just saying this as a Mac-nut, NOTHING, that I miss. There are so many MORE things you can do on the Mac that it's just crazy...Want to RIP DVD's? Easy tools exist. Find anything instantly with Spotlight (metadata search built into the OS). Use Dashboard to look something up in the yellow pages or check the status of an eBay sale. More operational tricks than I could possibly go into: spring-loading folders, genie minimizing, fast-useer switching, Expose, drag and drop...

Plug in a multi-button mouse, which is now INCLUDED in the Mighty Mouse for the iMac, and you'll have right-click functions that work just like the PC.

RSS built into the browser.

Slideshows from your Photo library, including 'Ken Burn's' pan and zoom, INSTANTLY, with no effort, and a single click to burn that show to DVD so you can send the pics to grandma.

Edit HD movie content in iMovie so simply ANYONE can feel comfortable, yet powerful enough to create professional results.

iChat AV (Video and Audio chat) with anyone around the world, in gorgeous h.264 quality for free.

Your own music studio with Garage Band, including MIDI, real instrument, and loops - all with a complete suite of effects - in an easy interface.

NO viruses (none ever succesfully transferred between Mac OSX clients!).

No spyware. None.

Enough of my commercial. I simply can't state enough how powerful the Mac is. There is so much FREEWARE available for completing even the most difficult of tasks that there is never a day I miss the PC. IN fact, I use a PC at work everyday, and it's almost painful...

[dbdynsty25]

^^--- Brings new meaning to Blow(s) Job(s).

[Sport73]

Hey, DB...I make no secret about how I feel about Apple since I made the switch. Some people seem to think that the millions of Mac fanatics are somehow ALL mentally deranged - and that the tens of millions more that are snapping up iPods are also crazy...It never seems to occur to Windows devotees that people sometimes get enthusiastic about something that's actually good...Tivo, Apple, BMW are just a few companies that generate zealouts by virtue of a better product.

That said, I've got to go because Steve said he needs his tongue enema and it's my turn!!! yippee!!!

[dbdynsty25]

If you notice...I didn't bash Apple at all in my little asessement. I don't mind Apple...I mind the fact that some people are completely blind when it comes to allowing other products into their lives and if anyone dares tell them that their product is inferior, then oh sh*t, look out.

You are boarderline by the way...your saving grace is that at least most of the time you can spit out a coherent arguement...so I can at least deal with that. Most fanboys don't do that.

The Macs are great if you never want to play games and you don't want to stream stuff to your 360. If what you want to do with your computer doesn't include those things, then by all means...a Mac is a good thing. The main downside to that is that they are ridiculously priced.

[bdoughty]

No spyware. None.

If that was the case then why exactly do such programs exist?

http://macscan.securemac.com/

http://www.Supportcave.com

It's free so it's not like they are trying to make money of somthing that does not exist?



http://ezinearticles.com/?Spyware---Now ... l&id=88374

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib ... b4mac.html

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/10-27-2005-80050.asp

and on and on... I could list a ton of differnt Mac sites and articles who claim otherwise.

[wco81]

Since the pros have been covered, here are some cons.

- You'd have to buy PhotoShop over again and that's not a cheap app.

- There are some web sites which are specifically made for Internet Explorer for Windows XP. You can use Firefox for Mac OS X but I think some websites use actual windows programs, which you couldn't use. One example off the top of my head would be stock brokers which have real-time stock price programs.

- The iMac G5 isn't upgradeable. So when Blu-Ray drives come out offering you 50 GB of storage, the only way you would be able to use it would be to buy a Firewire or USB 2.0 external drive. That would cost more and would hurt the aesthetics of the iMac.

- The processor is a dead-end. While capable, Apple has made it clear they are leaving Power PC and going Intel.

As for Media Center Edition and X360, MS is really pushing MCE, getting Dell and others to install MCE instead of XP Home for like $30 more. They want to get in the living room bad. So while they're shipping a lot, more of these MCE systems have no TV tuners. Dell charges $150 for the tuner.

You have to ask yourself whether you expect to view a lot of your multimedia on the TV. Will slide shows of your photos look as sharp, even on an HDTV, as your monitor? Do you really expect to boot up a computer and the X360 just to listen to a few songs, as opposed to an MP3 player?

I think these streaming features will be a curiosity for people to try out but like people who were converting video and loading them up on the PSP, people will tire of it and not use it much.

If you have more than 20 GB of music on your computer, then I can see streaming it to the X360, since it only has a 20 GB drive. Otherwise...

[Spooky]

Great points WCO. Thanks to everyone! Keep 'em comin'...

Question:

Is there a decent DVD "Backup" program for the MAC that lets me make a copy of my store bought DVD's?

[ScoopBrady]

Spooky,
Take a half day off and swing by my work (I'm in Burr Ridge) to check out a G5. They're definitely sweet looking but they're not for everybody. The OS is way different than what you're used to and you'd be awfully upset if you spent $1500 on a machine you don't like to use. I love the G5's performance but the OS interface leaves a lot to be desired (no right click, no scroll bar drives me nuts!).

I just purchased a Logitech cordless mouse with two buttons as well as a scroll bar. Works flawlessly. I would agree the one button mouse sucks.

Glad to see they addressed those 2 issues but those are not the only issues I have with OS X. I still say the best thing for Spooky to do would be to mess around with a Mac first and see if he even likes it. If he doesn't like it his decision is made. If he does like it then he'd have to weigh the pros and cons and come to a decision.

[bdunn13]

- just wanted to second that.... my wireless logitech scroll wheel works great with my Mac Mini running X.

[Sport73]

Great points WCO. Thanks to everyone! Keep 'em comin'...

Question:

Is there a decent DVD "Backup" program for the MAC that lets me make a copy of my store bought DVD's?

There are several:

MactheRipper

and/or

Handbrake

are both freeware apps. MactheRipper is purely for archiving/backup purposes, allowing you to RIP the DVD to your HD minus the extras (if you prefer) so that it fits on a single 4.7GB disc. Handbrake can RIP and pass the result along to a rendering engine for compression to h.264, mpeg4, avi etc. If you want to prep movies for your PSP or iPod, Handbrake is the perfect tool.

PS> The PowerPC (G5) is hardly a dead platform. Apple may be switching to Intel, but will likely start with the consumer products first, so there are still many months/years left to come in the PRO line for the G5. Plus, the developers (and Apple) are committed to the simplified development of universal binaries for either Intel or PPC processors, so it will be some time before your suffering by not having an Intel Mac. By then, you'll be ready for a new one.

I agree that you should tinker with OSX for a while. It will be a bit foreign at first, but I'm sure in no time you'll discover its power and simplicity. I've often been tempted to send one fo my Macs to the most ardent Apple hater on this board, just as a 30-day experiment. I don't have a spare machine for you at the moment, but if I free one up I'll let you know.

[LAking]

Great points WCO. Thanks to everyone! Keep 'em comin'...

Question:

Is there a decent DVD "Backup" program for the MAC that lets me make a copy of my store bought DVD's?

I recently helped my girlfriend do some "backing up" of DVD's on her imac. We used mactheripper and she bought Popcorn from roxio to do the compressing. It works fine for her. I for one wouldn't be satisfied with the lack of customizationt hat popcorn offers. Perhaps there are other programs available but i am unaware of them. On the PC i use DVDdecrypter and DVDshrink and both are free. YOu just need Nero or Roxio or some other program to do the burning.

You want a really good comparison between macs and PC's? Here is one: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2232

[Spooky]

Thanks for that link LA. I forgot about that article and have seen it before but now read it much more thoroughly.

Thanks everyone for your input and for keeping this civil and helpful!

[wco81]

You got to look at the iMac as pretty much an appliance, a self-contained gadget for multimedia (remembe the built in web cam) and surfing which you won't be able to upgrade, unless you add external Firewire or USB devices.

If you think you'll be tinkering with the hardware and wanting new video cards, internal drives and other stuff, then the iMac won't fit.

That is why a lot of PC enthusiasts will never accept something like an iMac or Mac Mini.

But these products aren't aimed at enthusiasts, just general consumers who just want to do some common tasks with the minimal hassle. They are stylish and quiet enough to be put in the living room and really low-maintenance. They are known for the "out of the box" experience meaning it's easy to get up and running right after unpacking.

But as noted before, it's the long-term experience which may be limited, because you can't upgrade the video card for instance. Jobs philosophy is that you buy a new one rather than upgrade. While that's great for his company and I generally see an advantage to this appliance-like approach, it may not be so good for the environment.

Of course, all PC companies want you to buy new boxes from them, even if their designs are more upgradeable. You could probably use the iMac for 5 years and then donate it to a school or charity and it should still be very useful.

[Spooky]

You got to look at the iMac as pretty much an appliance, a self-contained gadget for multimedia (remembe the built in web cam) and surfing which you won't be able to upgrade, unless you add external Firewire or USB devices.

If you think you'll be tinkering with the hardware and wanting new video cards, internal drives and other stuff, then the iMac won't fit.

That is why a lot of PC enthusiasts will never accept something like an iMac or Mac Mini.

But these products aren't aimed at enthusiasts, just general consumers who just want to do some common tasks with the minimal hassle. They are stylish and quiet enough to be put in the living room and really low-maintenance. They are known for the "out of the box" experience meaning it's easy to get up and running right after unpacking.

But as noted before, it's the long-term experience which may be limited, because you can't upgrade the video card for instance. Jobs philosophy is that you buy a new one rather than upgrade. While that's great for his company and I generally see an advantage to this appliance-like approach, it may not be so good for the environment.

Of course, all PC companies want you to buy new boxes from them, even if their designs are more upgradeable. You could probably use the iMac for 5 years and then donate it to a school or charity and it should still be very useful.

See, that's the thing. I have become that 'out of the box' user. I never tinker with hardware or upgrade anything internally. I might buy an external burner or something if the one I have becomes severely outdated, but that's it. I like that 'plug and play' convenience. By the time things get that out of date though, I will be looking towards a new machine overall and sell my existing one (or do a hand me down in the family).

[wco81]

One last thing I forgot.

Make sure the screen is sufficient for you. I don't think the iMac supports external monitors (while Mac laptops do) and you obviously can't change or upgrade the LCD once you get it.

Not just resolution (of course they have the 20-inch model with higher resolution) but the refresh rate or response. See if video or DVDs played on it has ghosting or banding of any kind.

Some people hate the fact that you're stuck with the LCD but others like the all-in-one design, especially if they think it's stylishly done.

[DChaps]

All these same things have basically been said already but here goes in another approach.

You must answer these questions in the following order:

1) Do you care about playing games on your computer (particulary the newest high end games)? If Yes, go directly to PC. If maybe, go directly to PC. If no, proceed to next question.

2) Will you be using this computer for anything related to your job? If No, proceed to next question.

If Yes or Maybe, is your company on a PC Windows environment or MAC? If Mac, go to Mac. If PC, find out if the programs and/or databases you wish to use are accessible on a MAC in anyway, and determine if it's even within company policy to do so. Does your company have an MS Enterprise agreement? If so, you should have access to completely free version of all MS Office Suite products under their Home office agreement. This will include the free upgrade to Office 12 when released. Determine how much compatability to your work environment factors into your decision.

3) Do you care about upgradability with regards to processors, video cards, sound cards, LCDs, etc. If Yes or Maybe, consider PC over MAC. If No, go to next question.

4) Do you plan on purchasing and installing additional programs for finances, multimedia, productivity, etc.? If Yes or Maybe, consider PC over MAC as you will have far more available options under PC/Windows environment - proceed to next question to further analyze. If no to question 4, proceed to next question.

5) Do you care about price? If Yes or Maybe, consider PC over MAC. If no, proceed to next question to further analyze. If no to question 5, proceed to next question.

6) If you have made it this far, then you need to determine how much simplicity and style(Mac) matters to you versus compatability and upgradability(PC). If you have made it this far and there is some specific program or feature of the Mac that you are highly interested in, then go with the Mac, otherwise go with the PC as you are far less limited in how you may use it in the future.

[Spooky]

All these same things have basically been said already but here goes in another approach.

You must answer these questions in the following order:

1) Do you care about playing games on your computer (particulary the newest high end games)? If Yes, go directly to PC. If maybe, go directly to PC. If no, proceed to next question.

2) Will you be using this computer for anything related to your job? If No, proceed to next question.

If Yes or Maybe, is your company on a PC Windows environment or MAC? If Mac, go to Mac. If PC, find out if the programs and/or databases you wish to use are accessible on a MAC in anyway, and determine if it's even within company policy to do so. Does your company have an MS Enterprise agreement? If so, you should have access to completely free version of all MS Office Suite products under their Home office agreement. This will include the free upgrade to Office 12 when released. Determine how much compatability to your work environment factors into your decision.

3) Do you care about upgradability with regards to processors, video cards, sound cards, LCDs, etc. If Yes or Maybe, consider PC over MAC. If No, go to next question.

4) Do you plan on purchasing and installing additional programs for finances, multimedia, productivity, etc.? If Yes or Maybe, consider PC over MAC as you will have far more available options under PC/Windows environment - proceed to next question to further analyze. If no to question 4, proceed to next question.

5) Do you care about price? If Yes or Maybe, consider PC over MAC. If no, proceed to next question to further analyze. If no to question 5, proceed to next question.

6) If you have made it this far, then you need to determine how much simplicity and style(Mac) matters to you versus compatability and upgradability(PC). If you have made it this far and there is some specific program or feature of the Mac that you are highly interested in, then go with the Mac, otherwise go with the PC as you are far less limited in how you may use it in the future.

Nicely worded and laid out. That's the thing...I don't game on my PC and don't plan to (especially with the next gen systems and my 55" LCD Sony). I have an IBM laptop form work that I tke home every night if I need to work from home. I never upgrade anything internally, always buy external (probably since I have had laptops for a while now). And I really liek the layout, screen and cosmetics of the iMac, not to mention really wnating to try out OS X.

I guess at this point I am more looking for reasons to stay with PC/Windows rather than going to MAC. If I cannot really think of any, I may just make the move. Now if I could just sell that damn laptop I have...

[dbdynsty25]

Wanting to "TRY" OSX and completely jumping on the bandwagon are two different things. Be sure you want to switch before you do.