Best City to Live

[sportdan30]

Dan:

All I know is that St. Louis felt like Manhattan compared to Kansas City. If there's a more dull, mom-and-pops major city in the Midwest than KC, I've yet to visit it. The sidewalks roll up in that town at about 8 p.m. every night.

Take care,
PK

Don't get me wrong. There are definitely parts of downtown are well developed (restauraunts, bars, lofts, etc). However, there are also several blocks that are desolate after the 8-5 workers head home to the burbs. What I appreciate most about the city of St. Louis is that it's a relatively short commute from the suburbs. You're generally talking an easy 15-20 minute drive on evenings and weekends.

Conversely, I just remember living in Chicago and trying to get back into the city on Friday evening. It would take on average at least an hour of bumper to bumper traffic. Even on Saturday nights, there was a mad rush of suburbanites heading downtown. Of course, Chitown has a lot to offer in regards to restaurants and attractions. Still, three years of city life in Chicago was enough for me. Couldn't stand the weather and traffic enough to withstand living there permantly.

EDIT: If I had to pick a city to live in other than St. Louis just off the top of my head, it'd probably be somewhere in Colorado. Talk about a beautiful state.

[rubba19]

Are you a cigar smoker, Rubba?

I enjoy it, but the wife isn't too fond of it, so it's few and far between these days.

Most of my friends bring them in from Canada, but it's been years since I have sampled one.

I'll check out the documentary.

[pk500]

Well, if you want to avoid murder, avoid the South. According to a 2002 FBI report, it's the only section of the country where the percentages of murders in that region compared to the rest of the U.S. were larger than the percentage of that region's population compared to the rest of the U.S.

The South had 35.8 percent of the U.S. population, and 43.1 percent of the murders occured there. I'm guessing D.C. is considered part of the South for that study.

Too bad about the rise in murders in St. Louis, a 56 percent increase in 2003 alone. I liked the city when I visited there in 1996 and 1997 on business.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

You know what state is even prettier than Colorado? Utah.

The western half of Colorado is gorgeous. But from Denver east, Colorado is just an extension of Kansas flatland. Dull as hell.

Utah has mountains, Great Salt Lake and some very cool deserts in the South. I've driven around a fair chunk of Utah twice and was stunned by its beauty.

But I never could live there due to the prevalence of the Mormon culture. Those people freak me out, to be honest.

Take care,
PK

[bdoughty]

Too bad about the rise in murders in St. Louis, a 56 percent increase in 2003 alone. I liked the city when I visited there in 1996 and 1997 on business.

Take care,
PK

I always heard East St Louis was considered one of the worst places to live in these "best/worst city" reports? I guess it is spreading.

[davet010]

My top 5 of the places I have visited

Manchester (natch) - plenty going on for everyone, birthplace of more good music than most countries, but if you mind rain you might not like it.

Melbourne - nicer climate than most places in Oz, and not full of c*nts like Sydney is.

Munich - history, food, architecture, beer, 1860 Munich (baits hook for fsquid..)

Barcelona - as Munich but with nicer climate and no 1860

Glasgow - just avoid the centre of an evening.

My bottom 5

Darwin (Aus) - subtropical shithole full of inbreds. Longest 6 months of my life, but allowed me to disprove the theory that Aussies can drink

Liverpool (UK) - tedious sentimental Scousers stalk the streets at will. And the Beatles were always shite.

Paris - over-rated dump, full of tourists or the French..pick yer poison

Belfast - spent 4 months working here...if it was peaceful, it's very nice, but usually isn't, so not.

London - cockneys, tourists, rip off prices, southern flat beer, Chelsea. Nuff said.

[Brando70]

NYC would be my favorite. It's just incredibly fun and it has cleaned up considerably in the last 15 years without losing it's personality.

I really loved San Diego when I lived there, but it's been more than a decade since I've been back. Incredible weather and really laid back lifestyle.

I haven't spent much time overseas but Edinburgh is the one place I would consider living outside the U.S.

[pk500]

Too bad about the rise in murders in St. Louis, a 56 percent increase in 2003 alone. I liked the city when I visited there in 1996 and 1997 on business.

Take care,
PK

I always heard East St Louis was considered one of the worst places to live in these "best/worst city" reports? I guess it is spreading.

Yep. East St. Louis ranks right up there with Gary, Ind., as one of the biggest small-city sh*tholes in the U.S. But since E. St. Louis actually is in Illinois, I doubt it's murder stats are added to those from St. Louis, which makes St. Louis' murder hike even more stunning.

Gateway International Raceway, where I worked on business in St. L., is right next to East St. Louis. A definite "roll 'em up" area, in homage to the legendary Clark Griswold from "Vacation" fame.

Take care,
PK

[ScoopBrady]

I've lived in the Chicagoland area my whole life so I'm obviously biased towards Chicago. I love everything about Chicago except for the roadwork. I haven't travelled much in my life either but of the places I have travelled to these are the top ones (in no particular order):

1. New York - I only spent one evening there but I was impressed.

2. Savannah Georgia - Talk about pretty. Watch the movie Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil to see what I'm talking about.

3. Denver Colorado - Gorgeous scenery.

4. Hilton Head Island South Carolina - A small little slice of paradise. It's where I went on my honeymoon and my wife and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

5. Nashville Tennessee - I hate country music except when I'm in Nashville. Nashville is a great town to hang out at night.

I've never travelled outside of the United States. I'd love to travel to Italy and England before I die.

[dbdynsty25]

Scoop...you're absolutely right about the road work in Chicago. No way in hell Chicago makes any "best of" lists because of that and the ensuing traffic. I love visiting Chicago, but I absolutely hate driving there...it's almost worse than Los Angeles.

[pk500]

In some regards, the traffic in Seattle is worse than L.A. At least in L.A., you've got a vast network of east-west and north-south freeways.

In Seattle, you have I-5 and I-405 running north-south and I-90 running east-west, and that's it for major freeways, for the most part. The intersection of I-5 and I-90 can be absolutely BRUTAL in Seattle.

Take care,
PK

[dbdynsty25]

In some regards, the traffic in Seattle is worse than L.A. At least in L.A., you've got a vast network of east-west and north-south freeways.

Yeah I've heard...plus it rains all the damn time.

But then again, LA has 7 out of the top 10 congested transitions in all of America. Just so happens I live a whole 5 miles from the worst in the nation...the beloved 405/101 interchange. Pure hell at any time of the week.

[Blublub]

Crap air quality, growing sprawl and strip mall-itis, lots of traffic compared to some cities, one season (hot). Phoenix is L.A. Light -- what more could you ask for?

Sorry, I couldn't let this one go either. For those reasons Phoenix is firmly at the bottom of the list of cities I've lived in, and I've lived in a few. Interesting fact is that for years now nearly as many leave as arrive. It's not only "LA Light," but "Chicago Light" as it has a huge midwestern population.

Tucson, on the other hand, used to be near the top of my list - it's what Phoenix might have been without the sprawl and with a little more rain. Unfortunately I hear it too is getting pretty bad these days in terms of traffic and sprawl.

[Jayhawker]

St. Louis definitely has some crime issues, but statistics make it look worse than it actually is. St. Louis is not in a county, is landlocked, with its borders not expanding for the last 100 years or so.

So when crime stats get figured, the bad areas of the city account for a much larger percentage of the city than they would in other cities. Downtown has been coming back for years, and it is just within the last few years that folks in the county have noticed, even though many stilldon't see it.

They come down for a ball game, park in the garage, or close to the stadium, and then head back out to their "safe" place out in the county. Too bad they skip out and miss out on a lot of stuff that is making downtown a pretty cool place to be. Tourists always have a better impression of downtown than all the folks that have escaped out to the county.

[dbdynsty25]

Sorry, I couldn't let this one go either. For those reasons Phoenix is firmly at the bottom of the list of cities I've lived in, and I've lived in a few. Interesting fact is that for years now nearly as many leave as arrive. It's not only "LA Light," but "Chicago Light" as it has a huge midwestern population.

Why are you apologizing? It's a difference of opinion...I could care less. I love Phoenix. And I like the fact that just as many people leave as arrive...it keeps the population down. Hell, I wish the same would happen in LA...then it might be a halfway decent place to live.

[wco81]

Some people prefer the old tawdry Times Square over the new Disney-fied Times Square, although the latter is now a big hit with tourists. Manhattan would be an awesome place to live in if you could avoid Midtown for work or residence. Central Park rocks and Downtown has some nice residential areas.

Yeah what is up with Chicago streets? Traffic is something you get in every big city but why such poor condition?

Seattle didn't quite seem to have the infrastructure to deal with the migration of Californians in the '90s. Going from Seattle to Bellvue seemed to be worse than going from SF to Oakland.

Paris is awesome. Warmer than London, cooler than NY and way cheaper than both, centrally located to go throughout Europe or back to the US.

Only problem is, you know NY, Paris and London have three big Islamic bullseyes on them.

[Boom]

I've been around the world and seen many a great city, but there's only one place that has made me want to settle down, plant my feet and make home.

That one place is Denver, Co. I absolutely love it here. Obviously the outdoor life is outstanding. Skiing, boating, hiking, biking, etc.. you name it!

Great people to boot!

Before coming out here I had no intentions of getting out of the Marine Corps. Heck, once it was time to move one I was in roughly 12 years and made the decision that I just wasn't ready to go.

I'm a small town kid from north-central Pa called Wellsboro (50 miles north of Williamsport, Pa). It's a beautiful place too, but there's just nothing to do there. People work in the factory all day, go home, eat dinner, go to bed, just to get up and do it all over again. I admire those people very much, but it's just not for me. My brother's been doing it for as long as I can remember and it just wasn't something I wanted.

here in Denver you've got the great sports scene, night life, family life, whatever. The place just rocks!

[Jared]

Are you a cigar smoker, Rubba? I am, and I've always wanted to visit the forbidden land. Forbidden to Americans because of an antiquated, ridiculous policy that only is maintained to gain votes among the powerful voting bloc of Cuban exiles in South Florida.

PK,

You know, you can go to Cuba. The actual law is that you can't spend any money in Cuba while you're there. But what people do is go to Canada or Mexico and take flights from there to Cuba (there are plenty from Toronto - Havana). Then when you come back to Canada, get rid of your ticket stubs and other stuff (Cuba doesn't stamp the actual passport when you go there), and drive back into the States. Since you're in upstate NY, the trip would be pretty easy.

Not that I'm encouraging skirting US law or anything. Since I'm sure you'd never spend money there....especially on fine Cuban cigars.

[sfz_T-car]

Are you a cigar smoker, Rubba? I am, and I've always wanted to visit the forbidden land. Forbidden to Americans because of an antiquated, ridiculous policy that only is maintained to gain votes among the powerful voting bloc of Cuban exiles in South Florida.

PK,

You know, you can go to Cuba. The actual law is that you can't spend any money in Cuba while you're there. But what people do is go to Canada or Mexico and take flights from there to Cuba (there are plenty from Toronto - Havana). Then when you come back to Canada, get rid of your ticket stubs and other stuff (Cuba doesn't stamp the actual passport when you go there), and drive back into the States. Since you're in upstate NY, the trip would be pretty easy.

Not that I'm encouraging skirting US law or anything. Since I'm sure you'd never spend money there....especially on fine Cuban cigars.

We can merge this one with the Used Car thread and pick up a cherry 1958 Buick or a Trabant

[Zlax45]

No love for Boston

[seanmac31]

I'll put Phoenix up against any city in the nation. I also don't mind heat either, so that's probably why. Unbelievable women (not nearly as fake as LA, but still up there in terms of quality talent), minimal traffic, great sports town (all 4 majors) and great golf. Can't really ask for more if you ask me.

Well, there are a few things you could ask for...culture...cuisine...non-white people (these things tend to come as a package deal).

I lived in Phoenix for two years/three summers while I was in grad school, and in the end I had to bail and finish up from San Francisco. In fairness, it's not terribly different from most of the country, but there just aren't that many places I'd be happy living. New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Philly, Toronto, maybe Seattle (pretty, but not nearly urban enough for my tastes). I'd find just about any European city I've been to a wonderful place to live, but that list about does it for me and the North American varieties. Cars just killed most American cities.

[sportdan30]

St. Louis definitely has some crime issues, but statistics make it look worse than it actually is. St. Louis is not in a county, is landlocked, with its borders not expanding for the last 100 years or so.

So when crime stats get figured, the bad areas of the city account for a much larger percentage of the city than they would in other cities. Downtown has been coming back for years, and it is just within the last few years that folks in the county have noticed, even though many stilldon't see it.

They come down for a ball game, park in the garage, or close to the stadium, and then head back out to their "safe" place out in the county. Too bad they skip out and miss out on a lot of stuff that is making downtown a pretty cool place to be. Tourists always have a better impression of downtown than all the folks that have escaped out to the county.

If any of you guys ever drive through St. Louis with the wife and kids, remember we have the number one children's attraction in the United States. Yep, bigger than Disney World. It's called the Magic House and it's worth checking out. Plus, our zoo ranks in the top five year in and year out.

Ooops. Didn't I say "lists" were garbage? Forget what I said!

[sportdan30]

No love for Boston

I love Boston. I've only visited once when I was there for a wedding, but it made a lasting impression. It's a beautiful, clean city. Without a doubt, if I had to choose Boston or New York, I'd definitely choose Boston. New York is just way too big and crowded for my taste, and whoever said they've cleaned up the city....well, I'd hate to see how it looked 10 years ago. The smells there were nasty.

Only downside to Boston is that they seem to get nailed with snow every year. Brutal winters from what I hear. Same with Chicago. In St. Louis, if it snows you rarely have to shovel because you know it's going to melt in a day or two. Downside to St. Louis though is the horrible freezing rain that we ineviteably get at least once or twice a winter.

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[pk500]

Only downside to Boston is that they seem to get nailed with snow every year. Brutal winters from what I hear. Same with Chicago.

This comment spawns this thought in my mind, so bear with me. Remember in "Crocodile Dundee" when Paul Hogan saw the hunting knife that another character had and said, "That's not a knife," and he pulled out a damn machete?

Well, every time I hear someone say a city's winter is brutal, I think, "That's not winter," and I want to tell them that Syracuse <b>averages</b> 115 inches of snow per winter. We're the snowiest major metropolitan area in the Lower 48 states, and I'm damn proud of it!

Take care,
PK

[ScoopBrady]

Only downside to Boston is that they seem to get nailed with snow every year. Brutal winters from what I hear. Same with Chicago.

This comment spawns this thought in my mind, so bear with me. Remember in "Crocodile Dundee" when Paul Hogan saw the hunting knife that another character had and said, "That's not a knife," and he pulled out a damn machete?

Well, every time I hear someone say a city's winter is brutal, I think, "That's not winter," and I want to tell them that Syracuse <b>averages</b> 115 inches of snow per winter. We're the snowiest major metropolitan area in the Lower 48 states, and I'm damn proud of it!

Take care,
PK

Snow isn't the only thing that makes a bad winter. How about 40-50 mph winds that make it feel like it's 40 below? It's usually too damn cold to snow that much in the Chicago area. Don't even get me started on Minnesota. I'd take all that snow and the higher temps compared to snow and freezing temps.