OT:Smart Phones

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:29 am

btw...this message is being posted from my treo...damn its good to have a semi decent browser on a phone....cool sh*t.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:37 am

Glad to hear that you're liking it, db. I got the PalmOne bluetooth headset and it's a freaking' dream! The call is much improved with the hands free setup.

Steve_OS · Post by **Steve_OS** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:04 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:btw...this message is being posted from my treo...damn its good to have a semi decent browser on a phone....cool sh*t.

Thanks for the impressions db. When you get a chance, please answer these questions.

1. How long does the battery last? Do you have to charge it every night?

2. Can you test out OS and see how it looks and works in the browser?

A test in "Steve's Forum" would be nice, if at all possible. Understandable if you can't tho.

3. WTF is EV-DO?

4. When actually sending email, does it come to the Treo fairly fast, or does it take quite a while to get there?

5. I think I remember you said you have to pay for the phone part and the data/email part seperately...Am I right about that? So basically, it's probably around 100 bones a month? I'm guessing that is unlimited email/internet? Can you use AOL IM or MSN Messenger and is that included in the email/internet usage charge or is that completely seperate?

Thanks for the help, I'm really liking what you've said so far.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:41 am

Here's for #2 on your list...as posted on OS, but I figure some guys around here would want to see these too...maybe.

Here are a few images from OS and DSP for anyone that cares. I have my browser set to wide mode, but there is an optimized one too that narrows the pages a little bit so you don't have to do so much scrolling left and right, but with forums, you only really need the links on the left so I left it that way. I took this screen shots with a program called "Snap" for the Treo 600/650, it's pretty handy eh? One thing I noticed is that when I got to the small font on the web pages, the snap program doesn't catch that, it uses the default font, so the font you see on these screen shots is a little big...it looks a lot smaller, and crisper on the Treo's screen. I tried to take a pic with my digi cam but it just came out horribly.

As you can see, the screen is pretty damn clear. This is in Wide mode, so the OS logo doesn't fit on the screen. If I were in optimized mode, it would fit.

This is what you get when you scroll to the right so that you can see the post count and views.

Obviously a little DSP action too, for your enjoyment. DSP is actually even better on the Treo just because the forums are a little more simple. The first is in "wide" mode and the second is in "optimized" mode. As you can see, there is more info on the screen in optimized, but it looks a little better in wide (if you don't mind scrolling).

And the top of the page where the logo is, in optimized mode.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:54 am

As for the rest.

1. The battery is at 50% right now, after heavy use today. I'll likely need to charge it tonight since I'm still in the "honeymoon" phase where I mess with it all the time. I put programs on, take them off, put them on, take them off...it's an endless cycle right now. I assume I'll be able to go two days when the newness wears off and I've settled into my routine.

3. EV-DO is the new network that Verizon is rolling out slowly. It's essentially broadband internet. It is really fast, usually around 300kbs, whereas the current 1XRTT network only runs at about 50kbs. They have a few phones (and one smartphone, the Audiovox 6600) that run on the network and it's damn fast...the upcoming Samsung i730 is supposedly going to utilize the network, but it's quite bulky and it's got a slide out keyboard, which makes it really tough for one handed navigation. I was planning on waiting for it, but when I saw my buddies 650, I had to jump on it. I had a 600 and I was frustrated with the lack of bluetooth and the crappy screen...this phone fixed both of my main concerns.

4. Mail is an interesting story. As it stands, Verizon puts a program called Versamail on the treo itself. It works pretty good but it doesn't give you many options when it comes to syncing folders and creating a nice structure to organize it. I use a program called Chattermail, which is quite a bit more user friendly and powerful.

Now, the issue that us CDMA users (Sprint and Verizon both use CDMA technology compared to GSM which is Cingular, AT&T, TMobile) have is that there isn't such thing as PUSH email for the Treo...well kind of. I basically make the treo go out and check my email every half hour. I don't need it sent any faster, but there are ways to do that. If you have an IMAP server, you can have the Treo sync with that and it's almost instantaneous. The issue with that is that whenever the Treo is querying the server, you will not be able to receive/make any phone calls. I had mine setup this way and I quickly decided against it. The treo tells you when you have an open connection (green arrows above the signal indicator) and when you have an idle connection (grey arrows). When it's green, you're hosed, when it's grey, you can actually use the phone because the connection is idle. It's really not handled very well, but it's easily bypassed by using a POP mail account and just querying it at whatever interval you choose (it can be every min. if you'd like, but remember, during the 15 seconds it takes to download the mail, you won't be able to get calls).

I hope this helps, because it's kind of confusing until you see it all in motion.

5. Yes, data and voice are completely separate. I am paying 40 for my phone usage (450 anytime, unlimited to verizon customers) and 45 for unlimited data. I assume it is going to be about a 100 a month like you said after all the taxes and surcharges.

As for AIM/ICQ/MSN/Yahoo messenger...I use a program called Verichat which basically allows you to connect to any or all of the programs listed. It is included with the data package. It functions like the email though because you will not be able to send or receive phone calls when it is active (sending or receiving messages). It goes idle though, so you will be able to get calls while the arrows are grey.

Did I miss anything? Eesh...that's a long post. If anyone else has any questions, fire away.

Steve_OS · Post by **Steve_OS** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:42 pm

Thanks a ton db!! Now you have me curious about the i730

So, let's just say that I'm reading my email, does that mean I'm on the "Green" or can I read email while still in the "Grey"?

Also, if you are on the phone and it's time for your email query to happen, does that disconnect your phone call conversation?

Thanks again db!! Great info!!

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:54 pm

Steve_OS wrote:Thanks a ton db!! Now you have me curious about the i730

I was interested, but early impressions from the testers haven't been all that favorable. The way I look it...if it comes out and I like it better than the Treo, I can always get about 75-80% back if I flip the Treo on Ebay. So basically, this is the rental period. Plus, Verizon is notoriously slow when it comes to releasing phones (see the Treo 600 and 650 that both showed up 6-9 months after they are released on Sprint for the best example). So who knows when the i730 will drop.

Steve_OS wrote:So, let's just say that I'm reading my email, does that mean I'm on the "Green" or can I read email while still in the "Grey"?

When you're reading email, it's Grey...the only time it's green is when it's downloading it or uploading it to the server. You can go through...type a bunch of emails, and read a bunch of emails...all while it's grey. Then, when you're done, you sync em up and it will send all of the emails at once and then download the new mail...making the time that it's "green" fairly short.

Steve_OS wrote:Also, if you are on the phone and it's time for your email query to happen, does that disconnect your phone call conversation?

It will wait until you have finished doing whatever you're doing. I was messing around on the web this morning, so I missed my scheduled "download of email." As soon as I disconnected from the web, it went and downloaded my email. Same thing goes for phone calls...it will wait until the connection is stopped, and then it will proceed.

Steve_OS · Post by **Steve_OS** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:06 pm

Man, that is hot!!

I'll wait for some more of your impressions after your "honeymoon".

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:10 pm

Yeah give me a week or two...I'll have a better feel for the nuances and quirks.

RobVarak got one too, on Sprint, and he said he likes his back when he got it. Any updated impressions Rob? I'm sure you're past the honeymoon phase by now, are you still really happy with it?

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:51 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Yeah give me a week or two...I'll have a better feel for the nuances and quirks.

RobVarak got one too, on Sprint, and he said he likes his back when he got it. Any updated impressions Rob? I'm sure you're past the honeymoon phase by now, are you still really happy with it?

Loving it. I really haven't put in the time needed to learn its intricacies, but the call quality is fine, the bluetooth headset is incredible and I love having the email and browser capabilities. I'm still using Versamail, which hasn't caused too many problems for me. The hardest thing for me has been wrestling with the keyboard with my Chewbacca-sized fingers.

Steve_OS · Post by **Steve_OS** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:43 pm

Hey db.

Is this right??

http://www.vzwshop.com/treo650

I was gonna order from here, it claims I can get the 650 for 299. Is that possible? Looks like a legit verizon site, but I see them for like 399 everywhere. Just making sure.

Thanks.

Steve_OS · Post by **Steve_OS** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:44 pm

When you have the time.

Does it have memory slots? If so, is it for SD cards? Can it play MP3's well?

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:28 pm

RobVarak wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Yeah give me a week or two...I'll have a better feel for the nuances and quirks.

RobVarak got one too, on Sprint, and he said he likes his back when he got it. Any updated impressions Rob? I'm sure you're past the honeymoon phase by now, are you still really happy with it?
Loving it. I really haven't put in the time needed to learn its intricacies, but the call quality is fine, the bluetooth headset is incredible and I love having the email and browser capabilities. I'm still using Versamail, which hasn't caused too many problems for me. The hardest thing for me has been wrestling with the keyboard with my Chewbacca-sized fingers.

Thanks for posted that. My problem with the treo is the same thing. The keyboard is so small for me. I don't have chewbacca fingers but they aren't number enough to hit the small keys. Hell they aren't nimble enough to type with a regular keyboard as evident from my typos in every post.

That's one thing I like about the blackberry.

DB what's your take on the keypad?

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:19 am

JRod wrote: Thanks for posted that. My problem with the treo is the same thing. The keyboard is so small for me. I don't have chewbacca fingers but they aren't number enough to hit the small keys. Hell they aren't nimble enough to type with a regular keyboard as evident from my typos in every post.

That's one thing I like about the blackberry.

DB what's your take on the keypad?

FWIW, I haven't used a Blackberry to compare, but I am noticing an improvement in accuracy and ease of use over time. It's my first exposure to the thumb-typing thing, so I suppose an adjustment is normal.

One thing I like which is really stupid and simple but cool: Having the alphabet keyboard is excellent for speed dialing. Easy to associate things like P for parents or T for Tantric Sex guru etc.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:08 am

Steve,

If you don't currently have a contract with Verizon, you can get it for 299. You have to pay 399 up front and then you get a 100 credit on your first bill if you sign up for the data plan...which equates to the 299 price tag.

It uses SD cards and you CAN play MP3's on it. There are some programs out there that will allow you to play any MP3 as your ringer too...it's pretty handy.

Jrod,

My take on the keyboard is that it's a little small but after a weeks use (of the treo 600 I had), I was used to it. I think it will be the same with the 650 as I'm already getting back into the flow of it. I have fairly small fingers though so that also helps my cause. The Blackberry keyboard is quite a bit easier to use, but the device is also nearly an inch wider, so you can space the keys out a little more. I'd much rather have to delete and edit a little bit...than have such a wide device...but that's just me.

Steve_OS · Post by **Steve_OS** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:31 am

Thanks db, I'm really thinking about getting one this week. I'll await some more impressions from you tho.

Steve_OS · Post by **Steve_OS** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:27 pm

How's things after a few more days db?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:41 am

Still love it. I am fairly confident that the i730 (the new one coming out in the next few months) will not be able to surpass the 650. I have yet to find any significant flaws. The only downside I can find right now is the compatibility with older treo 600 apps. Sometimes the combination of old and new programs will make it reset, or even get caught in a resetting loop...but it's always recoverable. If I didn't want to screw with the thing so much, I'm sure it would be fine.

You will most likely need to charge every night though...I've been using it a little more regularly for the past two days and both days, I was below 50% on the battery meter. That's also a good thing...the 650 has a replaceable battery so you can always keep a spare around if you use your phone alot. I've talked for probably an hour today, as well as downloading email a couple times an hour over the internet, so I'm sure it eats up some of the battery life. I doubt I'll ever need to get another battery...because 50% is acceptable in a normal day for me. I'll just have to charge every night, rather than every other with a regular phone.

Steve_OS · Post by **Steve_OS** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:38 am

Thanks db, I think I'll be picking one up fairly soon.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:34 pm

Just another note pimping my latest purchase: the T-Mobile Blackberry 7100t (or 7100g etc. depending upon your provider).

This little sucker is an excellent phone, with the power of a Blackberry built in. The keyboard is far easier to use than it might first appear, as I know through tests that I'm faster than on a traditional Blackberry device.

No problems, loving life.

Just an FYI to anyone whose company runs Blackberry Enterprise Server and is looking for an excellent phone/e-mail/PIM solution.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:43 pm

Sport73 wrote:Just an FYI to anyone whose company runs Blackberry Enterprise Server and is looking for an excellent phone/e-mail/PIM solution.

There is no doubt that blackberry handles email better than any other smartphone...they just lack when it comes to web and other internet based services. If you only want to do email, and your company has a BES, there is no doubt that blackberry is the right choice. Now if you want to actually look at web pages...you're SOL because most of their phones don't allow it and the ones that do are half assed at best.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:08 pm

What is the difference between the Blackberry push and any email client which automatically retrieves POP and IMAP accounts?

Is it because you don't have to connect to the web or the mail servers and hence you don't incur some bizzare connection/data charges?

Supposedly MS announced push support in their upcoming Windows Mobile update.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:30 pm

Blackberry's receive the email from the BES automatically the instant the server receives it. The BES is basically acting as a forwarding device, pushing the email to the account that is associated with the particular email address.

You can get a similar action from an IMAP server, but it's not quite as fast and it's kind of a pain in the ass to setup. For instance, I have a POP Yahoo account that I want to access on my Treo. I have it check the account every 30 min. and then it downloads the email to my phone. I also created an IMAP account on a Fastmail server that accepts mail from my Yahoo account that I have forwarded to the IMAP account. The IMAP syncing is a lot better than the POP as it is almost exactly like the blackberry server, BUT, and it's a big BUT, you lose all of the Spam filtering that the Yahoo account does automatically (the bulk mail folder). It forwards EVERYTHING to the fastmail account so I ended up getting 50 to 100 emails each day. Thats not acceptable. As soon as I can figure out a way to filter the spam, using the fastmail IMAP account would be idea...but I have yet to find a solution to that issue.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:33 pm

2 CRITICAL differences...

1. Push is instant, a Treo or other 'polling device' only checks e-mail every 30 minutes (or 10, or whatever you set it for) and ties up your phone line while doing so...A Blackberry will get the message almost the instant it shows up on your desktop (and with BES, sometimes even before it shows up on your desktop). And, you can receive/send calls while getting e-mail in the background...

2. With Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES), your e-mail is always in sync between your handheld and your desktop. In other words, a message read/deleted/moved or replied to in one place is marked and treated as read/deleted/moved etc. in the other. This is critical for me, since I get over 600 messages per week and the last thing I want is to have them all appear as NEW when I return to my office even if I've been managing/responding on my Blackberry.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:17 pm

Sport73 wrote:2 CRITICAL differences...

Except that both of those differences are remedied with IMAP and ChatterMail. So there really is no difference now. As long as you have the IDLE command support, it's EXACTLY the same...only you don't have to spend three grand on the BES.