Nascar SimRacing for PC

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:39 pm

I picked up Nascar SimRacing for the PC yesterday, and I was hoping to put in several hours last night and see how this thing stacks up against the current benchmark Nascar Racing 2003 by Papyrus.

Well, in typical EA fashion, I have yet to get the game installed due to an error that happens when installing. When I try to install the game, I always get stopped at about 33% because a message comes up and says, "A problem occurred when trying to transfer the file "xxxxx" from the media. The actual file name that it gets hung up on differs every time, but it still stops somewhere between 30-35%.

I have tried uninstalling, re-installing, etc. but nothing works. There are a bunch of posts on EA's forums with the same poroblem, but no solutions. Some recommendations are copying both disc images to hard drive and adding a second CD/DVD drive if you only have one drive. Another thread said put in disc 2 when it gets the error message then retry. All ridiculous solutions but I tried them anyway.

However, none of these options worked for me. It just locks up on the next file after putting in CD2. So is this a problem with all the discs, or just some of them? It appears it works for some people, so maybe I am just unlucky.

I have a brand new, very vanilla PC. When a game like this will not even install properly, it does not give me much confidence that game itself will be any better. Oh well nice try anyway EA.

The interesting thing is the wide ranging reviews of the game so far within the racing sim community. Of particular note is the IGN review of DSP's own Randy Magruder. I don't normally trust any reviews from IGN, but anyone who has been around the racing sim community for a number of years, knows that Randy is a racing enthusiast who understands sims and physics and has been considered a trusted source in the past.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/588/588381p1.html

It's been six years in coming, but EA has finally delivered the goods. They rewrote their physics engine, spent extra long months tweaking and tuning and testing after the console versions shipped. The extra time has paid off handsomely. EA's NASCAR SimRacing has earned its name, and in doing so, it has finally compelled me to free up the space on my hard drive that Papryus had occupied through years of EA's previous attempts to close the gap. EA has not only closed that gap, but they have exceeded Papyrus' efforts in many significant ways, such as the excellent physics model, featuring "drivable oversteer," third-party extensibility, and just about every option imaginable.

That's some pretty high praise, and if it wasn't for the source I would not even give it a second thought. He goes into some detail regarding the physics in particular and why he likes it. He also points out the AI and Flag rule bugs, etc. So what's the reality with this game?

Some of the problems I have heard pointed out in the forums so far is the extremely buggy flag and rules AI, that the truck models are generic and do not reflect at all the actual makes and models, many missing tracks, bad replays, bad control with MOMO wheels, too easy physics, inconsistent damage model, etc.

If I decide to stick with the game, and I get it successfully installed, I will post my impressions later.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm

I grabbed it after I enjoyed the demo quite a bit.

I'll have to play it before posting anything (damn WoW).

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:55 pm

Don, man...

What'd you do to piss off the pc gods?

First Half-life, now this...

Did Strongbad lampoon Bill Gates or something?

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:02 am

webdanzer wrote:Don, man...

What'd you do to piss off the pc gods?

First Half-life, now this...

Did Strongbad lampoon Bill Gates or something?

Heh, I have been starting to wonder the same thing. I've been a PC gamer for 20+ years. Even though I love the consoles as well, I have continued to get some of my greatest enjoyment from PC games.

A month ago I get a brand new PC and then I have just had problem after problem (there have been other issues that I have not posted here). Funny thing is that you would think it is the PC, but in each particular case it was the damn software. I was seriously thinking someone is trying to tell me to give up PC gaming and stick with the consoles.

Good news is that I took back Nascar SimRacing to EB and exchanged it. The new copy appears to be working fine. They said there was a bad bacth of CD's or something. Of course, then I had no time to play last night, but I hope to put some time in today.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:14 pm

DChaps wrote:
webdanzer wrote: Good news is that I took back Nascar SimRacing to EB and exchanged it. The new copy appears to be working fine. They said there was a bad bacth of CD's or something. Of course, then I had no time to play last night, but I hope to put some time in today.

Saw a good number of users with TW2005 PC users with this same issue. It is apparent that EA has some CD mastering issues either internally or with whomever they have contracted this to. I don't think they realize how bad something like this looks to their customers not to mention the added expense and time needed to get a working copy....

Darkbandit · Post by **Darkbandit** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:53 am

I picked it up Friday and am already thinking about putting it on ebay or seeing if anyone wants a copy that was thinking about buying it. I guess I was spoiled by Nascar 2003 Season and can't seem to get into EA's game.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:22 pm

As usual, this is a game that looks to be getting a free pass from the major review sites. Gamespot, GameSpy, and IGN have all rated it very high, even though they point out some pretty major bugs and flaws. For example, in Randy's IGN review he does mention the following:

EA implemented all the latest and greatest NASCAR Rules, including the sometimes controversial "Lucky Dog" rule that lets the first driver to become a lap down to get his lap back during a caution period (this does away with the dangerous practice of "racin' back to the line"). It also accounts for double file restarts and assesses penalties for going too slow under caution, lapping the field under yellow, etc. Unfortunately, even if you follow every audible and visual instruction, the game can shaft you when it gets confused about where you are and what you should be doing.

In the course of a single caution, while accurately following the computer's directions, I still managed to go a lap down and earn a stop and go penalty. The in-game instructions in that situation were neither accurate nor timely: I was told to slow down to get behind a certain car. When I slowed down, I got a warning that I was going too slow and almost immediately was told I'd lost my place in the line for going too slow, even though I was just waiting for the other car to catch up to me.

After pitting, I exited the pit lane as the pace car was going by, and slowed to fall back to the end of the line, only to be told that I had lapped the field under yellow and would be assessed a stop and go. Things like this forced me to turn on the "auto-drive" feature during cautions. But even that mode didn't work right. I was told that I was the "Lucky Dog" and that I should proceed past the pace car to get my lap back. But the AI driving my car refused to budge. And I could not override it! So, I didn't feel like such a "Lucky Dog" after all.

I've been assured that bugs of this nature can and will be ironed out, and I expect they will be made available as patches to the game. But it takes away from the believability of the game when you can't trust it to manage the rules properly. Fortunately, you can turn off yellows and tweak other rules to minimize the negative effects of these problems until a fix is available. For multiplayer, it is a serious issue that will probably have many leagues resorting to turning off yellow flags until it is fixed.

So far I have yet to get a race using the flag rules on where things did not get completely screwed up. To me that is pretty major. Rules and flag problems in a racing sim can kill a game for me (Incycar Series 2005 anyone?). To me bugs liks this are just a little more than a minor annoyance. However, Randy gives gameplay the following rating:

Gameplay = 9.0 (The NASCAR rules system is buggy, but the racing and driving are top-notch.)

Hmmm.... So if physics in a soccer or hockey game were solid, even though the rules did not work at all so the gameplay gets a pass.?

At least Randy does point out some of the problems. In GameSpy's review, which gets 4/5 stars (Great), They mention the following:

Your spotter's warnings can lag behind actual events, or they'll have little immediate relevance to your situation. Worse, your spotter and the game's icons can give you wrong instructions during cautions that result in you getting penalized or even disqualified if you follow them. The game can issue penalties when they're not deserved, or issue one and then immediately forget it ever happened.

Speaking of problems with cautions, we once saw the pace car come out onto the track for all of two seconds, do a donut in the middle of traffic, and then race back into the pit lane -- in the wrong direction.

Well, they mention these problems as well, and believe me they are rampant in the game, yet it receives 4 out of 5 stars? I mean, come on!

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:52 pm

I bought Nascar Racing Sim on Friday. Fortunately for me I read the reviews just in time before I opened the box. After I saw the Yellow Flag bug which i've read over at bhmotorsports.com goes way back to Nascar Thunder 2003, I returned my unopened copy back to Circuit City.

THere's no excuse for the same bug to exist in Nascar Thunder 2003/2004 and now in Nascar Racing Sim.

This is a big deal for me. It's like playing a Football game scoring a touchdown and getting 3 points instead of 6.

EA needs to get it's act together. Hopefully the EA faithful can start leaning on EA to finally fix this bug.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:41 pm

I guess I'm the only one that won't crucify them for having yellow flag bugs. Papy had bugs for years (many of which still exist), notably ones where the entire field would just jam up and park on a yellow flag. It's not exclusive to EA (and I'm no EA fan), so to simply write off the entire game because there are bugs? Your prerogative, for sure.

To me, it's always about how it drives...and that seems to be a definite medium between unforgiving realism and complete arcade. You can really pitch the car into a corner and save it, and you can also bump and bang the AI a bit more than in NR2003. Good or bad, it's definitely a huge step up from last year's PC effort, and the driving model is just as much fun as NR2003. Nobody's going to claim that it has a perfect rules implementation, and it's definitely a head-scratcher as to how it can actually get to shelves as it is...well, no it's not. They told them it was coming out before the Daytona 500 and that's that. I'd expect the rules issues to be patched in a couple weeks, and THEN I'll pass judgment on it.

Until then, I'm having a lot of fun simply driving it. But, as it has been before, I'm probably on my own here. I don't really care what other people say about a game, only what really bothers me. To me, the yellow flag issue isn't as much of an issue as going door to door 3 wide without having huge AI gaffes is.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:18 am

I guess I'm the only one that won't crucify them for having yellow flag bugs. Papy had bugs for years (many of which still exist), notably ones where the entire field would just jam up and park on a yellow flag. It's not exclusive to EA (and I'm no EA fan), so to simply write off the entire game because there are bugs? Your prerogative, for sure.

Heh, I did not get a chance to finish off the rest of my post. I am definitely not writing off the game because so far I really like the physics model. The game looks pretty good too when all the graphics are set to full detail, but frame rates will suffer even on a high end machine.

The AI can be very fun and challenging as well, when they are not doing something crazy. I agree that this is a huge step up from previous versions from EA and I hope they continue fixing it.

Until then, I'm having a lot of fun simply driving it. But, as it has been before, I'm probably on my own here. I don't really care what other people say about a game, only what really bothers me. To me, the yellow flag issue isn't as much of an issue as going door to door 3 wide without having huge AI gaffes is.

I am having fun driving it as well. In fact, if I am just on the track by myself with full graphic details on, the game looks and feels fantastic from a driving standpoint. (well, besides the fact that I cannot get force feedback working very well). Problem is once you add more cars and mirrors the frame rates go down very quickly. I am averaging a 20fps hit turning the mirrors on.

The AI is a mixed bag as well. Sometimes it seems great, then other times they act very strange stuff. In 2 out of 3 races at Daytona I had the whole set of cars inexplicably slow down to about 150mph on the front stretch. Watched the replay and nothing happened, they just slowed down.

The damage model is wierd as well. Seems that visually it does not show much. Likewise it seems that if you have any kind of incident it just takes you out of the race. No chance for repairs on anything. I had a slight brush with the wall at Phoenix and expected some body damage or maybe a tire or two needing change, then all of a sudden I am booted to the race end screen showing DNF. No replay, no nothing. Sure didn't feel like a hit that would have put my out of a race.

Another thing that just bugs me to no end with all the EA/ISI racing games (and Tiger Woods series for that matter), is there is no way to save your results outside of screenshots.

I have not tried out any multiplayer yet, but I am hoping to next week.

There is definitely a decent sim here, but not without many necessary fixes.

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:45 am

I picked this up today.

I played a bit with my son earlier today, just to get a feel and ran a few laps at Daytona. Then tonight I ran a 19 lap race at Talladega, mostly to get a quick feel for the physics and tweak a bit for graphics performance.

Graphics are very nice. I was getting good performance (cockpit view, mirrors on, 30 cars viewable) in the pack at Talladega, around 20-25fps when there were cars both in front and in the mirror. When not in the pack (most of the race.. as I suck) I was getting 40fps with those settings.

I run

P4, 2.0Ghz, 512MB RAM, ATI 9700 Pro 128MB
Graphics card settings:
1280x1024, with 4XAA and 2XAF, texture preference = Quality, Mipmap detail = quality. (one tick from the highest quality)

In-game:
Image quality HIGH
Track Detail HIGH
Cars viewable 30
Opponent detail MEDIUM
Player Detail MEDIUM
Lighting HIGH
Shadows LOW
Speciall Effects FULL
Characters (pit crew) FULL
Wheel/Hands WHEEL

20fps in the pack is not bad. It was a pretty smooth 20fps, not jerky. I will probably tweak to get closer to 30fps though, once I can actually race well enough to race in the pack consistently.

Physics: Fun, but WAY more forgiving than NR2003. I don't have the clenching-butt-cheeks-gotta-keep-the-car-on-the-track feeling like I did in NR2003. But I think they are certainly passable for the game and I do enjoy that I can bump a bit more in the pack and not lose it immediately like NR2003. I went on the grass a bit in my Talladega race. That was often INSTANT crash or spin in NR2003, but it was pretty easy to maintain control in this SimRacing game.

In my 19lap race I qualified at around 50.7, with the pole leader at 49.7. That put me dead last to start the race. I managed to then get lapped by the entire field and finish +1 lap (about a total of 125 seconds behind the leader). THe pack seemed to take off on me right away as I didn't maintain draft. ONce they were gone I was toast. Managed to stick with them for about 5 seconds when they lapped me... then they were gone again.

Have not had any issues with the game so far like crazy AI (haven't had any yellow flags yet.. just one race). I'm having fun, even if the physics are not as difficult as NR2003 I do see that this can be a good racing game. I'd like to try some multiplayer sometime as well. Maybe I can keep up with Dchaps as Tcrouch laps us both a few times.

I use a logitech momo racing wheel (the black one) and force feedback SUCKS with it. Wonder if someone has found out why yet.

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:07 pm

... and the mods begin:

http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=195629

...

RELEASED:
New engine internal sounds, bottom out, Backfires and shift sounds. Adjusted volumes for all remaining sounds. Fixes volumes of opponent cars being to loud.

http://www.bhmotorsports.com/download/8812

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:55 pm

There is a "garage 101" pdf download available from EA:

http://www.easports.com/games/nascarsimracing/home.jsp