It's November, and that means it's console anniversary time

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:15 pm

Okay, we need to wipe away the residue of our intense political hatred for each other

So it occured to me that we've reached yet another year in this generation of consoles. The PS2 is four years old, XBox and GameCube are three. I thought it might be an interesting way to post about gaming and heal our message board.

So I'll start: if you play the PS2, you're a backwards, toothless, evolution-denying, sister-boffing retard.

Ooops, sorry, I'm a bit out of practice. Let me try again...

The PS2: This is clearly XBox country at DSP, but I think the PS2 has gotten a bad rap. It wasn't revolutionary -- the Dreamcast did much more to advance gaming than the PS2. But it built on the foundation of the PS1 to take gaming out of the realm of teenagers and adult male virgins and make it more mainstream.

It also produced some revolutionary titles. Grand Theft Auto, for instance, has probably had the greatest impact on the game development since Doom. More and more, companies are trying to give us more open-ended games instead of pigeonholing us into linear gameplay. Metal Gear Solid 2, as flawed as it was, really started to break down the line separating movies from games. Gran Turismo 3 was the first title to really show how visually stunning this generation of games could be. Certainly, at four years old, it's showing its age, but I think it was a damn fine machine. And it still has the best controller.

GameCube: Oh, poor little GC, how I weep for thee. On some levels, this is my favorite console. I played two of my favorite games of this generation on it: Eternal Darkness and Metroid Prime. The GC has so much color and liveliness to its graphics. It's graphics really captured the pizazz of attacking the Death Star or bouncing around on a jet ski or making games look like Pixar movies that came to life.

But oh, how Nintendo screwed this up. Whereas the N64 stayed afloat on a bevy of must-own exclusive titles, the proliferation of multi-console development killed the GC. It has, IMHO, the highest number of quality exclusives. But not enough to prevent getting squashed between the PS2's popularity and the XBox's superior fire power. Plus, once again, Nintendo didn't offer enough adult fare. Which brings me to...

The XBox: if the PS2 made gaming more popular, the XBox made it more adult. It is my console of choice. The graphical capabilities, sound, and options like the harddrive simply outmuscle the competition. But more important, it has a library that really caters to old farts like us. There are so many classic titles: Halo, KOTOR, Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, Project Gotham 2. Titles like ESPN Football looked so good, you could almost forget you were watching a game.

But what makes this the jewel of this generation is XBox Live. For once, Mircrosoft exceeded my expectations. They have managed to, if not create an online community, provide the zoning where a bunch of online communities could spring up.

Anyway, just a few reflections as I kill the last 15 minutes of the workday. I'd be interested to see how you guys feel about how this generation of consoles turned out.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:26 pm

I tend to look down on the PS2 as a piece of hardware, but I can't deny the effect GTA, Winning Eleven and Ico have had on me.

The Xbox was the big surprise. Before it came out, I swore I would never get it, and once I stumbled my way into owning one, I've never really looked back. If I could only keep one system, I wouldn't even hesitate. Xbox.

My friend is borrowing my Gamecube, playing through Metroid Prime. The fact that I don't really care when I get it back says just about everything. I do like the Wavebird controller, however, and I sometimes favor the GC when it comes to multi-platform, non-online releases.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:04 pm

Yeah, I never thought I would get an Xbox. But I'm glad I did -- it has exceeded my expectations in terms of software and hardware, and Xbox Live is exceptional. I don't miss my PS2 at all.

That said, the Dreamcast had the biggest "holy sh*t" blow-me-away factor of any console I've ever played. From the cool hardware to the innovative, quirky software to decent online gaming on a 56K phone line to the incredible jump in graphics quality between 32-bit and 128-bit gaming, the DC remains my favorite console ever to this day by a short, curly one over the Xbox.

The Dreamcast is the Tucker automobile of console gaming. It was too good, too far ahead of its time. It also didn't help that Sega couldn't market gift wrapping at Santa's workshop.

Take care,
PK

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:06 pm

sf_z wrote:You may not agree with the outcome but it's pretty clear the PS2 has won both the popular vote and electoral college this go around.

By that analogy, is the Gamecube Nader or Badnarik?

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:11 pm

I'm happy to own all of my consoles (of course I have every console there ever was, thanks to finally tracking down a working X'eye half a year ago). It was a good generation, but the PS1 is still my favorite console ever. As far as this round goes, PS2 is the easy winner (as the back-alley beat down they handed out to M$ and Nintendo will confirm). Most games, best variety, best value... right on down the line. The other two systems can't even touch the PS2 as a complete gaming machine. All-time, I would rank the PS2 beneath only the PS1, the PC Engine, the Dreamcast and perhaps the Super Famicom and the NEO GEO (NEO GEO being a difficult system to rank).

Xbox exceeded my expectations, and over the last 18 months it has done a lot to make it not just a big black box that plays twitch games. In the big picture of gaming history though, I rate it as a slightly above average system... maybe a bit below the Mega Drive. Despite that, Xbox had some of the best games I've played in a long time, such as Morrowind, Steel Battalion and KOTOR. A good effort from M$.

Nintendo on the other hand... will even a single game be remembered on the Gamecube 5 years from now? Perhaps Metroid Prime, which is a great game.. but it's from an existing franchise, like Zelda (another great game). Mario Sunshine was utterly forgettable. There are some great games of genius, like Eternal Darkness, Super Monkey Ball, the Rogue games... but sadly nobody played them. Nintendo squandered a nice piece of hardware.. but the silver lining is I'm playing all of the games now at blowout prices...

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:18 pm

XBOX Live.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:55 pm

Kazuya wrote:All-time, I would rank the PS2 beneath only the PS1, the PC Engine, the Dreamcast and perhaps the Super Famicom and the NEO GEO (NEO GEO being a difficult system to rank).

Uhh....Genesis? My top pick...then the Xbox, then the DC.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:41 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Kazuya wrote:All-time, I would rank the PS2 beneath only the PS1, the PC Engine, the Dreamcast and perhaps the Super Famicom and the NEO GEO (NEO GEO being a difficult system to rank).
Uhh....Genesis? My top pick...then the Xbox, then the DC.

Genesis = Mega Drive, which I ranked as a middle of the pack system. I mean nostalgia aside, it wasn't that great of a system. The sound sucked, the graphics were worse than the much older PC Engine (which beat the hell out of it in Japan), it had more useless incarnations than any system in the history of gaming and need I say more than 32X? If you go back and look, the library wasn't that strong. For every Gunstar Heroes there were a dozen Michael Jackson Moonwalkers. But that's just the way I see it.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:47 am

Mortal Combat, Madden, Live and NHL on the Genesis owned anything out at the time. That's all I cared about.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:01 am

For every Gunstar Heroes there were a dozen Michael Jackson Moonwalkers. But that's just the way I see it.

Wow I don't see it like that. One could make that exact statement for the PS1. Look at the OVERALL library and you will probably find more low budget titles and overall bad games on the PS1 then any other system. Throw in the fact the Army Men games were born on the PS1 (all 7 on that console alone - Thanks Trip) and it takes a major hit just for that.

Plus the Genesis had so many great titles born on it's system we still play today on next gen systems. The system has to get a little extra credit for that.

Lakers vs Celtics
Madden
PGA Tour
NHL
Bill Wash College Football (now NCAA)
Tommy Lasorda Baseball - then WSB
Sonic the Hedgehog
Altered Beast (unfortunately the sequel is for the Japanese only)
Phantasy Star

Just to name a few and not listing games that only appeared on the Genesis/Saturn.

I still have to go with the NES as the system I got the most enjoyment from. Then the Genesis, Dreamcast and finally the Xbox.

ddtrane · Post by **ddtrane** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:20 am

My favorite system by far is the PSX or PS1, it let the mainstream know that videogames wasn't just greasy kids stuff or only for nerds. Once the PSX came into existence videogames became cool for adults to play and possess. But I must give props to my still working Sega Saturn. I really loved that system and it got most of my time till I bought Ridge Racer and Tekken. Peace.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:49 am

bdoughty wrote:Wow I don't see it like that. One could make that exact statement for the PS1. Look at the OVERALL library and you will probably find more low budget titles and overall bad games on the PS1 then any other system.

Yeah, but there were a lot of PS1 games, period. I think you can look at the list at SCEA's website, the total number of games is mind-boggling.

You're talking about a time from say 1996 to a bit into the new century, where PS1 was churning out all-time greatest hits seemingly weekly. Everything Square made was an instant classic ...Final Fantasy VII, Xenogears, Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics, Chrono Cross and Front Mission III are some of the best games Square has ever made. Konami was on its game with Silent Hill, Castlevania: SotN and Metal Gear Solid. Resident Evil by Capcom by and Tomb Raider by EIDOS were both revolutionary and are also two of the best-selling games ever. Gran Turismo, Tekken, Soul Edge, Twisted Metal... the list goes on and on. The PS1 was a hit machine.

bdoughty wrote:Plus the Genesis had so many great titles born on it's system we still play today on next gen systems. The system has to get a little extra credit for that.

Lakers vs Celtics
Madden
PGA Tour
NHL
Bill Wash College Football (now NCAA)
Tommy Lasorda Baseball - then WSB
Sonic the Hedgehog
Altered Beast (unfortunately the sequel is for the Japanese only)
Phantasy Star

Just to name a few and not listing games that only appeared on the Genesis/Saturn.

Yeah, but those are all sports games... they're going to come out year after year anyway, regardless if they're good or bad. And it's not like no one had ever made a golf game before. Meanwhile, no one had made a Final Fantasy VII before.
Altered Beast was an arcade hit but didn't really have any legs, plus the Genesis version was a crappy translation. I'll give you Phantasy Star and Sonic, those were obviously important games not just in sales but in achievement as well. On second thought, I have to give you Madden too.. it was too important of a game and it did debut on the Genesis.

Some other important Genesis games:
Herwog Zwei - some people think this is actually the first RTS (console or PC), now that's impressive
Strider - pretty sure it's the world's first 8MB cartridge
Sonic & Knuckles - nothing special as a game, but I'm pretty sure you could argue the concept has been duplicated if not the implementation (piggy backing games that is)

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:36 am

Well the key for me is in the sports titles. Most of the games you listed I never played or if I did play them, they were never finished (I think it all started with FF VII and not finishing games). I used to beat games up until the PSX/N64 Generation hit. I also enjoyed gaming more in my youth as it was simpler. No worries about sliders, multiple analog triggers, online cheesers, just a couple buttons, no internet to spoil games for you, no media overlaod, no internet forums to see 4,000 rants on each game compared to every 3 positive posts. Plus other non-gaming hobbies and the money required to do them have taken it's place of what used to be an obsession. I guess that may explain why I have no systems anymore.

Like yourself my roomate has every system under the sun, yet I have no desire to play them. When I do play them it is a sports game from an early system. I can play Baseball Stars and Little Baseball on the NES for hours at a time. I don't even think I will join in on all the Halo 2 fun and pretty sure I will not buy ESPN College Hoops since I forsee Halo 2 taking over his Xbox. Call it a rut I guess but it is probably best that I take time off until the next gen sytems hit.

Hopefully the Xbox2/PS3 and their sports games will wow me back in.

GROGtheNailer · Post by **GROGtheNailer** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:07 am

I know that I have never regretted buying the Xbox on release day. The best gaming I have ever had has come through the Xbox. Sports games and the leagues have really done it for me. Had a gamecube briefly but it's gone now, game selection on that system just isnt close you know?

I find myself spending less time with cpu games and waaay more time with the Xbox and I would of never had thought that even 1 year ago. ESPN online leagues and website is the cat's @ss.

I'm stoked for Half_Life 2 but nothing else on the horizen right now for PC game, well maybe a few more. I'll be definitely be getting the Xbox 2 on release day as well and can't wait to see what that brings, especially with upcoming sports titles. 2004 has been a great year for gaming for me on the Xbox.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:52 am

The XBox: if the PS2 made gaming more popular, the XBox made it more adult. It is my console of choice. The graphical capabilities, sound, and options like the harddrive simply outmuscle the competition. But more important, it has a library that really caters to old farts like us. There are so many classic titles: Halo, KOTOR, Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, Project Gotham 2. Titles like ESPN Football looked so good, you could almost forget you were watching a game.

But what makes this the jewel of this generation is XBox Live. For once, Mircrosoft exceeded my expectations. They have managed to, if not create an online community, provide the zoning where a bunch of online communities could spring up.

Amen!

I know that I have never regretted buying the Xbox on release day. The best gaming I have ever had has come through the Xbox. Sports games and the leagues have really done it for me. Had a gamecube briefly but it's gone now, game selection on that system just isnt close you know?

I find myself spending less time with cpu games and waaay more time with the Xbox and I would of never had thought that even 1 year ago. ESPN online leagues and website is the cat's @ss.

I'm stoked for Half_Life 2 but nothing else on the horizen right now for PC game, well maybe a few more. I'll be definitely be getting the Xbox 2 on release day as well and can't wait to see what that brings, especially with upcoming sports titles. 2004 has been a great year for gaming for me on the Xbox.

Double Amen! You are scaring me Grog. Exactly what I would have written if I wasn't so lazy...and could copy and paste.

Halo2 and Ghost Recon 2 are the next two games I'm drooling for.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:52 pm

bdoughty wrote:Well the key for me is in the sports titles. Most of the games you listed I never played or if I did play them, they were never finished (I think it all started with FF VII and not finishing games). I used to beat games up until the PSX/N64 Generation hit. I also enjoyed gaming more in my youth as it was simpler. No worries about sliders, multiple analog triggers, online cheesers, just a couple buttons, no internet to spoil games for you, no media overlaod, no internet forums to see 4,000 rants on each game compared to every 3 positive posts. Plus other non-gaming hobbies and the money required to do them have taken it's place of what used to be an obsession. I guess that may explain why I have no systems anymore. Like yourself my roomate has every system under the sun, yet I have no desire to play them. When I do play them it is a sports game from an early system. I can play Baseball Stars and Little Baseball on the NES for hours at a time. I don't even think I will join in on all the Halo 2 fun and pretty sure I will not buy ESPN College Hoops since I forsee Halo 2 taking over his Xbox. Call it a rut I guess but it is probably best that I take time off until the next gen sytems hit.

Hopefully the Xbox2/PS3 and their sports games will wow me back in.

Well, I was just trying to make an analysis of the systems from a historical perspective, taking into account their impact on gaming as well as the quality of the hardware and software. For example like you, I have a fondness for the NES and in my personal ranking it would probably be at or near the top, but historically there are a few systems I think that were better.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:18 pm

I think the NES can not be dismissed historically. To allow some hyperbole, it did manage to save the home videogame market following the crash of the Atari. Would another system have done the same? Who knows, but would we be where we are today without the old gray box?

As for the current systems, I went with the critical mass and backwards capabilities of the PS2 at the start. GT3 helped that, as it was to me the best racer available. Plus, I hated the XBox controllers. Suddenly, about a year ago, I started noticing some XBox-only titles that I liked and figured it was a fluke. I gave in though once ToCA 2 looked like an XBox-only title (still not out on PS2), combined with the McCrae games. Since then, the PS2 has only been used for WoO and still has not been plugged in at the new place. Should probably sell it, eh?

XBL has been the biggest plus for me, I did not expect to have that much fun gaming online, but I have been proven very wrong. Almost like being back in college again from a gaming perspective.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:40 pm

My Top 7

1 XBOX.......Live carries the day
2 PS1.........GT,MGS, Madden 99
3 Genesis.....EA in the day
4 NES......Tecmo Bowl,Blades of Steel, Bases Loaded
5 PS2......GTA,GT
6 DC...2k or not 2k
7 Atari 2600

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:57 pm

I think you can't deny the PS1's place in history. I would rate it as the best console of all time. It not only had a sheer volume of games, but a ton of classic titles. Plus, it really covered nearly every genre with at least a handful of good titles.

It also had the second biggest wow factor for me, after the Dreamcast. Tomb Raider was the first game I bought for the PS1, and the design and graphics just blew me away. It was such a big leap from my Genesis. Then games like Resident Evil, GameDay, and Final Fantasy VII solidified that feeling. The PS1 really got the ball rolling for adult console gaming. Games like RE and Silent Hill were as scary as good horror flicks.

But I agree with sf and PK that the Dreamcast was the biggest jaw dropper for me. I was covering E3 in 1999, so I got to play all the launch titles a few months before they came out. NFL 2k just blew me away, I didn't think sports games could look like that. Then Ready to Rumble and Soul Calibur solidified that feeling. Even some of the more forgotten titles, like Trickstyle, were simply stunning in the graphics and art direction.