Saddam Hussein has been taken into custody.

blueduke · Post by **blueduke** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:48 am

We finally got him. Don´t mess with Texas. Don´t mess with the USA

BBReBozo · Post by **BBReBozo** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:09 pm

Before I ever saw a picture of Paul Kelly, I pictured him to look exactly like the footage of Saddam I saw this morning.
 
 I was extremely disappointed to find out that he actually looks halfway normal.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:21 pm

<IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif">
 
 Still a long way to go.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:38 pm

BB:
 
 That pic of me is nearly two years old. <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_wink.gif">
 
 Very good news. Not sure what Texas has to do with it as mentioned in the original post, as Dubya wasn´t on the raid last time I checked. Plus he´s the president of the U.S., not of Texas.
 
 Either way, very good news. Hope this will make daily life safer for U.S. troops and Iraqis. But Jack -- and brilliant N.Y. Times columnist Tom Friedman -- are right: We will "own" Iraq for the next 10 to 20 years, so people better not expect seashells and balloons in Baghdad now just because Saddam has been caught. Long, hard road ahead.
 
 Still, pretty damn funny that tough guy Saddam was found in a f*cking mud hole. What a complete, cowardly asshole -- like every tyrant. Hitler had Eva Braun in the bunker; Saddam probably had a stack of Hustlers in his mud hole.
 
 Take care,
 PK [ This message was edited by: pk500 on 14-12-2003 09:41 ]

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:46 pm

Still, pretty damn funny that tough guy Saddam was found in a f*cking mud hole. What a complete, cowardly asshole -- like every tyrant. Hitler had Eva Braun in the bunker; Saddam probably had a stack of Hustlers in his mud hole.
 <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif">
 
 Seashells and ballons? <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif">
 
 Damn man you mean it´s not over?
 
 I booked tickets for next years new BCS Baghdad Bowl. <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_wink.gif">

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:18 pm

I´m suprised that none of pacifists here have started the "Yeah we got him but look at the cost" thread yet!
 
 USA BABY!!! Don´t forget it!
 You mess with the bull you get the horns!
 
 Tim [ This message was edited by: tjung0831 on 14-12-2003 10:19 ]

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:29 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2003-12-14 10:18, tjung0831 wrote:
 I´m suprised that none of pacifists here have started the "Yeah we got him but look at the cost" thread yet!
 
 USA BABY!!! Don´t forget it!
 You mess with the bull you get the horns!
 
 Tim
 
 [ This message was edited by: tjung0831 on 14-12-2003 10:19 ]
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 It´s one of the best things to happen in this war. The Iraqis are celebrating in the streets.
 
 If he could get all the insurgents to stop and lead us to all the WMDs, then even better.
 
 But how exactly did Saddam mess with the US? When did he attack the US?
 
 Instead, his capture will just be milked to justify this war, which still can´t be justified. Yeah you got rid of a bad guy but that has nothing to do with why we supposedly went to war.
 
 Already, the Iraqi Governing Council, composed of carpetbaggers like Ahmed Chalabi, is talking about a show trial. Chalabi is talking like he´s running the place already and so since he egged the administration on to this war, I guess the war was totally worth it for him.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:44 pm

I´m surprised he didn´t get ´shot while attempting to escape´. Now he´s still alive to lead the UN inspectors to the WMD´s that aren´t there.
 
 Not in any way to belittle the efforts of the troops on the ground, but the biggest high-fives today will be in Haliburton´s boardroom.

Arkin710 · Post by **Arkin710** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:55 pm

I particularly like the fact that the operation to capture him was called "Red Dawn" after one of my favorite movies.
 
 The two farmhouses where they thought he might be were named Wolverine 1 and Wolverine 2, after the Wolverines, the football team turned resistance fighters (led by Patrick Swayze).
 
 It is good to know that someone in the military has a sense of humor.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:32 pm

As a follow-up, while I´m very pleased that Saddam has been captured alive, the biggest threat to the U.S. still remains at large: Bin Laden.
 
 Remember, Bin Laden ordered the attacks that felled the Twin Towers, damaged the Pentagon, caused the plane to crash in Pa., and killed more than 3,000 people, mostly Americans. There never has been any direct link between Saddam and Sept. 11, 2001, while we KNOW Bin Laden ordered the attack.
 
 I´m happy with Saddam´s capture, but I´ll dance a long, hearty jig in the streets when Bin Laden is nailed, if he´s still alive.
 
 WCO is right: Saddam never attacked us. Bin Laden did. Bin Laden´s terrorists still pose a threat to American shores; Iraq doesn´t. Bin Laden is the true bad guy when it comes to "messing with the bull, getting the horns" and all of that other jingoistic bullshit.
 
 Take care,
 PK [ This message was edited by: pk500 on 14-12-2003 11:33 ]

btmgov · Post by **btmgov** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:22 pm

It´s too bad we have to let the useless bastard live so that we can attempt to extract some info from him.

mobiggins · Post by **mobiggins** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:03 pm

I´m suprised that none of pacifists here have started the "Yeah we got him but look at the cost" thread yet!
 
 
 
 Uh....exactly. You can say that again. All the dead soldiers have given their lives for some bearded hermit in a mudhole.
 
 Let´s start at the beginning.
 
 The Bush administration and warhawks´s vision has gotten so myopic (nearsighted) that they seem to think that the dead US soldiers have given their lives so that US soldiers wouldn´t be killed. Kinda schitzophrenic, don´t you think?
 
 What DID all the soldiers die for? Certainly not so we could capture Saddam and end all the insurgencies that were killing US soldiers with potshots...?
 
 There´s really no good answer because the war was unjustified to BEGIN with. Show me some weapons. Show me any proof that this war was worth all those military and civilian lives on both sides, not to mention the harrowing injuries, limbs, sight, lost, the orphans, widows, etc. Not worth it one bit.
 
 This capture will boost Bush´s popularity needlessly and undeservedly.
 He´s already hit the airwaves acting as if the US had been hit by terror solid from 9/11 until now. He´s such a shameless political whore.

TheMightyPuck · Post by **TheMightyPuck** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:10 pm

Sweeeeeeet!!! This will go a long way toward getting Iraq looking forward. Simply Awesome. As for a "show trial"? Why not just a show execution on PPV with all the proceeds going to a worthy charity.

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:00 pm

It´s a nice thing for the Shiite and Kurdish population of Iraq, and it provides nice photo ops in a creepy kind of way, but it doesn´t mean much more than that. It was farfetched to think that Saddam was behind the attacks before, but now that everyone has had a chance to have a look at him and how he has been living, it´s downright ludicrous to think he has played a role in the resistance.
 
 In the end, it´s really not any more significant than toppling the statue in Baghdad as far as creating a viable country in Iraq.
 
 (And all I can say is that they better make sure it is an Iraqi court that tries and executes Saddam, not an American or an international one.)

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:02 pm

mo- Well said.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:55 pm

Sean:
 
 Absolutely about the trial -- it must take place in an Iraqi court. The U.S. or the World Court have no business trying this guy. He must face the justice of his people.
 
 The only thing the U.S. should do regarding the trial is ensure no one who lives in L.A. serves on the jury and that Johnnie Cochran doesn´t defend Saddam.
 
 Take care,
 PK

JOZ · Post by **JOZ** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:21 pm

I actually woke up for some unknown reason at 7:00 this morning to see the press conference live. Good stuff.
 
 BTW....when they said he was cooperating, I hope they meant he wasn´t moving when the long line of Iraqi´s were taking turns pissing and shitting on him.

RiverRat · Post by **RiverRat** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:19 pm

My hope in all of this is that the collective "we" don´t spend too much time right now worrying about justice and who is going to try him and when and what the punishment will be and so on and so on.
 
 It´s not that that stuff isn´t important, because it is, especially a trial where people can tell their stories and let the world know what Saddam has done. But Saddam is in the past, and there is still much to be done. I hope we just very quitely hold him for awhile and let it all calm down a bit so that all the stakeholders can focus even that much more clearly now on the future.
 
 Congratulations to everyone involved. God bless America, and may God bless Iraq.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:06 am

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2003-12-14 13:03, mobiggins wrote:
 I´m suprised that none of pacifists here have started the "Yeah we got him but look at the cost" thread yet!
 
 
 
 Uh....exactly. You can say that again. All the dead soldiers have given their lives for some bearded hermit in a mudhole.
 
 Let´s start at the beginning.
 
 The Bush administration and warhawks´s vision has gotten so myopic (nearsighted) that they seem to think that the dead US soldiers have given their lives so that US soldiers wouldn´t be killed. Kinda schitzophrenic, don´t you think?
 
 What DID all the soldiers die for? Certainly not so we could capture Saddam and end all the insurgencies that were killing US soldiers with potshots...?
 
 There´s really no good answer because the war was unjustified to BEGIN with. Show me some weapons. Show me any proof that this war was worth all those military and civilian lives on both sides, not to mention the harrowing injuries, limbs, sight, lost, the orphans, widows, etc. Not worth it one bit.
 
 This capture will boost Bush´s popularity needlessly and undeservedly.
 He´s already hit the airwaves acting as if the US had been hit by terror solid from 9/11 until now. He´s such a shameless political whore.
 
 
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 On the otherside however, it´s early the 3rd quarter. Sure time is running out for the Democrats to mount a serious run but the game doesn´t end tomorrow. We still have a fickle economy to contend with.
 
 We still have terrorism. Should terrorists and there are some still out there, attack a civil target. The one weakness of the terrorist it seems is to look for the biggest targets. Look how soft america is in it´s most basic of elements. The terrorist tomorrow could attack a school, bank shopping center, mall, hopistal in the same manner they carry out attacks in Iraq. We are not safer than we were pre 9/11 and to think that checking people´s shoes at airports is enough is awefully simplistic.
 
 turning to the Democrats. What a blow for Dean and Clark today, more so for Dean. Here´s a guy that the only two things he´s done to get to the top is raise a lot of money because of his anti-Bush, anti-Iraq stance. Okay granted the war in Iraq wasn´t started on just reasoning, but most Americans don´t really care. The capture of Iraq is enough to say America has won the war. Even if 500 more soldiers die from now to Nov 04. So Dean has to go back to the economy one where I don´t think people really trust him or think of him as a fiscally determined President. I think the true frontrunners will come to the top, that´s Kerry, Gephart and Lieberman.
 
 On top of it all, it´s very disheartening to read on these boards and the OS boards (although they have now censored any political discussions) that so many people forget the real reasons we went to war. I guess there´s a reason why so many in the world hate us, we´re stupid and ignorant. We allow mediocre men to run a great country. We don´t really understand issues and make very little attempt to think critically about issues. We have no real sense of civics, government and current affairs. It´s sickening to think that so many Americans are blissfully ignorant, know that they are and wish not to change.

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:30 am

This is a major but temporary boon to Bush´s re-election chances. A month will go by, another month, and soldiers on the ground are going to keep dying at the same rate they have been, at which point the decision to place so much emphasis on Hussein will start to look more and more questionable.
 
 It´s funny how simply the American mindset is- there has to be an evil mastermind behind everything, because we can´t get our collective noggins around anything more complex than a comic book "good vs. evil" showdown.
 
 In any event, it´s way too early to start calling the 2004 election.

TheMightyPuck · Post by **TheMightyPuck** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:22 am

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2003-12-14 17:55, pk500 wrote:
 Sean:
 
 Absolutely about the trial -- it must take place in an Iraqi court. The U.S. or the World Court have no business trying this guy. He must face the justice of his people.
 
 The only thing the U.S. should do regarding the trial is ensure no one who lives in L.A. serves on the jury and that Johnnie Cochran doesn´t defend Saddam.
 
 Take care,
 PK
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 PK is in the hizzouse <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_wink.gif"> You is on muthafzucka.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:19 am

I read some of these posts and laugh. Some of you guys put politics ahead of everything.
 
 If you hate Bush fine,don´t vote for him. This is still a great day for Iraq and the fight against terror. If you don´t know that by now you never will.
 
 The soldiers that I served with wanted to be in Iraq. My brother wanted to be in Iraq. He died there and I was crippled there. When you talk about the soldiers,know this. They have seen first hand what Saddam has done to that country and it´s wonderful people.
 
 I saw the mass graves in the North. I spoke with Kurds who lost entire families to Saddam´s gas attacks.
 
 My brother Damon was part of a team that found more mass graves in Mosul. I could go on ,but it won´t matter to those of you that play politics. The soldiers that are fighting this war think its just,thats all that matters to me.
 
 IMO we found a WMD in a rathole on Saturday.
 
 We have some of the finest soldiers in the world in the mountains of Afghanistan Pakistan and Tajikistan looking for another rat that hides in caves. Hopefully they find what they are looking for.
 
 Hats off to the soldiers of the 4th ID on a fine capture!

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:28 am

"I read some of these posts and laugh. Some of you guys put politics ahead of everything."
 
 I do too Jackdog. Bush isn´t the only political whore.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:53 am

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2003-12-15 05:19, JackDog wrote:
 I read some of these posts and laugh. Some of you guys put politics ahead of everything.
 
 If you hate Bush fine,don´t vote for him. This is still a great day for Iraq and the fight against terror. If you don´t know that by now you never will.
 
 The soldiers that I served with wanted to be in Iraq. My brother wanted to be in Iraq. He died there and I was crippled there. When you talk about the soldiers,know this. They have seen first hand what Saddam has done to that country and it´s wonderful people.
 
 I saw the mass graves in the North. I spoke with Kurds who lost entire families to Saddam´s gas attacks.
 
 My brother Damon was part of a team that found more mass graves in Mosul. I could go on ,but it won´t matter to those of you that play politics. The soldiers that are fighting this war think its just,thats all that matters to me.
 
 IMO we found a WMD in a rathole on Saturday.
 
 We have some of the finest soldiers in the world in the mountains of Afghanistan Pakistan and Tajikistan looking for another rat that hides in caves. Hopefully they find what they are looking for.
 
 Hats off to the soldiers of the 4th ID on a fine capture!
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 That´s all fine JD, but we didn´t go there to overthrow a tyrannical butcher or at least that´s not how Bush sold the war. The liberation theme came out when they couldn´t find WMDs or links to Al Qaeda, the two claims the administration were winking around before the war.
 
 Or if it is about overthrowing tyrants, we can be going all over the world. I was just reading an article about Kosovo and it turns out the Pentagon didn´t want any part of that war. They see their responsibilities as limited to 3 strategic hot spots: the defense of the US, the Korean peninsula and the Persian Gulf. They didn´t want to commit large numbers of ground troops or put Apaches at risk in that war.
 
 So whatever the rank and file may think, the Pentagon leadership isn´t into these humanitarian wars.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:10 pm

>>>In the end, it´s really not any more significant than toppling the statue in Baghdad as far as creating a viable country in Iraq.<<<
 
 Sean:
 
 This is where I disagree with you somewhat.
 
 Capturing Saddam -- alive -- is WAY more significant in the long-term view to building a viable nation in Iraq than toppling a statue, for many reasons.
 
 One, his capture alive has much more credibility in the Arab world than if he was killed. There are Arabs who still think Uday and Qusay´s corpses were fakes, something out of Dreamworks studios.
 
 There was nothing fake about the imagery of Saddam looking like a street bum, being checked for lice and mouth sores. That hits home in Damascus, Baghdad, Amman and Cairo -- big time.
 
 Second, Saddam could give us information through interrogation. And I´m not opposed one bit to a bit of "military coercion" -- wink, wink -- to get that information out of him.
 
 Three, Saddam´s brutality was so total that many Iraqis still believed they could be tortured or killed by him or his minions even if he was living in a rat hole near Tikrit. That´s the kind of fear and repression this guy spawned over the last quarter-century.
 
 That´s all over now, and the Iraqi people know it. They also know that Americans were responsible for the tyrant´s capture. That should help relations between Iraqis and American troops if the American adminstration in Iraq doesn´t get too heavy-handed. And with Bremer in charge, you never know. But there´s hope.
 
 Sadly, American troops will continue to die in Iraq at the hands of insurgents. But I believe some of that insurgency will diminish because most of the Ba´ath insurgency is due to devotion to Saddam. Well, Saddam didn´t die as a martyr in a glorious battle -- that only would have increased the insurgency. He quit without a shot in a rat hole.
 
 Think people all over Iraq still want to die for that guy? Some, maybe. But not as many as before.
 
 Finally, the capture of Saddam will give the U.S. and Britain a short-term bump in the court of world opinion. Bush said he was going to get this guy -- whom the non-Arab world unanimously agrees was a butcher -- and he did.
 
 Now, if Bush plays it cool with our allies around the world, this could help the U.S.´ tattered image as a rational world power. Right now, the rest of the world sees us as Atilla and the Huns, part II. But even-handed diplomacy -- which the Bush Administration has yet to show -- could help mend fences with our allies.
 
 Even if Bush continues with his "It´s our way or Trailways" foreign policy, the capture of Saddam still will have very tangible benefits inside Iraq and help to stabilize the situation there. Note I said help, not ensure.
 
 Key future aspect: Saddam must be tried in Iraq by Iraqis. That´s crucial. Ironically, a tribunal was created to try Saddam in absentia just last week. Looks like now they´ll have a real trial.
 
 Just keep f*cking Lance Ito off the bench ... <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_smile.gif">
 
 P.S.: I don´t give three shits what you think of U.S. policy, but you must tip your collective caps to the U.S. Army, which captured this guy in a flawless operation, with no shots fired. These guys -- the past, present and future veterans of this war -- clearly are the best and bravest this country has to offer.
 
 Take care,
 PK [ This message was edited by: pk500 on 15-12-2003 08:11 ]