So um, North Korea seems to have come out of it's shell.

[bdoughty]

Anyone else getting a touch be concerned? Not trying to make this political, just pointing out that Crazy Kim is treading farther from the shallow end of the pool.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... plant.html


North Korea fires sixth missile and restarts nuclear plant
North Korea is reported to have restarted its nuclear plant and fired another short-range missile in defiance of warnings from the United States that it would "pay the price" for its actions.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090527/D98EKAHG0.html

North Korea threatened military action Wednesday against U.S. and South Korean warships plying the waters near the Koreas' disputed maritime border, raising the specter of a naval clash just days after the regime's underground nuclear test.

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews ... 3120090527

Russia is taking security measures as a precaution against the possibility tension over North Korea could escalate into nuclear war, news agencies quoted officials as saying on Wednesday.

[Gurantsu]

I honestly have stopped concerning myself with this nutjob. When he starts this crap it usually means his people are out of food so he does this to get more international help provided he stops.

He may be a complete wacko (and he is!) but he would get spanked so royally hard if he pulled anything that even he isn't stupid enough to try anything.

Hell, remember when he lobbed a missile right over Japan into the Pacific? That was more disturbing to me than his current stuff.

[Brando70]

Keeping this as apolitical as possible, while its concerning, the fact is that non-proliferation can't last forever. The information on how to build nukes is readily available. It's getting the resources to do it that are hard. But over time, more nations will make that breakthrough, and it's not feasible to take military action every time one appears to be making progress.

Nuclear weapons also are more of a bargaining chip than an offensive weapon. If you look at the history of India and Pakistan, two nations that hate each other passionately, nukes took military action off the table or made it more difficult to attack each other. Despite their saber-rattling from time to time, their arsenals push them toward negotiations because they both know a nuclear exchange would devastate both of them.

Kim Il-Jong is a nutjob, but I also think a lot of that is for show. Like Gurantsu said, he usually puts on this act when he needs something.

[wco81]

There was speculation that he was sick a couple of months back.

He is a nut (given his personal tastes) but that doesn't mean he doesn't know he'd be annihilated if he attacked any other country with nukes.

That was the propaganda regarding Saddam, that he didn't understand deterrence/retaliation and was bent on launching attacks against Israel, Europe or the US.

There was never any evidence that a) he had bio or nuclear weapons or b) that he was going to use such weapons despite the likelihood that his country would be destroyed in retaliation or c) that even if conditions a) and b) were met, he had weapons delivery systems.


North Korea did mothball one of its reactors a couple of years ago in return for oil and other aid. Has there been any change in the diplomacy since then or since the new administration took office?

[wco81]

Some speculation that he's doing this to play to the hawks in the military and line up succession for a son or one of his relatives.

http://www.slate.com/id/2219064/

[toonarmy]

I actually had the chance to talk to a couple South Korean friends today about this issue. They both laughed it off. They told me people over there know there is no chance N. Korea would even think about sending a nuke into S. Korea since the fallout would likely affect N. Korea. And obviously N. Korea would not seriously consider attacking the U.S. or its ships since it would mean utter annihilation of N. Korea. It sounds to me like this crackpot leader is simply posturing for internal political reasons and has no desire to attack anyone since he knows he would be crushed. It's not like he hasn't pulled these stunts before. I guess the media bite every time and blow it out of proportion.

[10spro]

I actually had the chance to talk to a couple South Korean friends today about this issue. They both laughed it off. They told me people over there know there is no chance N. Korea would even think about sending a nuke into S. Korea since the fallout would likely affect N. Korea. And obviously N. Korea would not seriously consider attacking the U.S. or its ships since it would mean utter annihilation of N. Korea. It sounds to me like this crackpot leader is simply posturing for internal political reasons and has no desire to attack anyone since he knows he would be crushed. It's not like he hasn't pulled these stunts before. I guess the media bite every time and blow it out of proportion.

Perhaps your friends should reconsider. I fly often to S. Korea on business and in the past I had visited the demilitarized zone, the border that separates North & South Korea and let me tell you, it's tense out there. And that was two months ago and whenever I hear tourists taking a trip there, it's the same feeling. The tunnels that the N. Koreans built in the past is scary. They are massive, it covers miles and miles off territory and if you asked a S. Korean citizen in the street about the possibility of psycho Kim pushing the wrong button, and the threat is real. Very real. Japan is obviously very concerned about it too and all Asian countries surrounding this divided country.

On CNN last year, they had a story where a North Korean family was trying to reunite with theirs in the South, and the constant threat of death, fear and chance of being captured was an eye opener. I just feel for the innocent people, sure the Kim regime has many political reasons for their bizarre behavior, but people in the South don't take his threat lightly.

[toonarmy]

I actually had the chance to talk to a couple South Korean friends today about this issue. They both laughed it off. They told me people over there know there is no chance N. Korea would even think about sending a nuke into S. Korea since the fallout would likely affect N. Korea. And obviously N. Korea would not seriously consider attacking the U.S. or its ships since it would mean utter annihilation of N. Korea. It sounds to me like this crackpot leader is simply posturing for internal political reasons and has no desire to attack anyone since he knows he would be crushed. It's not like he hasn't pulled these stunts before. I guess the media bite every time and blow it out of proportion.

Perhaps your friends should reconsider. I fly often to S. Korea on business and in the past I had visited the demilitarized zone, the border that separates North & South Korea and let me tell you, it's tense out there. And that was two months ago and whenever I hear tourists taking a trip there, it's the same feeling. The tunnels that the N. Koreans built in the past is scary. They are massive, it covers miles and miles off territory and if you asked a S. Korean citizen in the street about the possibility of psycho Kim pushing the wrong button, and the threat is real. Very real. Japan is obviously very concerned about it too and all Asian countries surrounding this divided country.

On CNN last year, they had a story where a North Korean family was trying to reunite with theirs in the South, and the constant threat of death, fear and chance of being captured was an eye opener. I just feel for the innocent people, sure the Kim regime has many political reasons for their bizarre behavior, but people in the South don't take his threat lightly.

They both live in Seoul and are pretty in tune with politics. I believe them when they say they do not fear a nuclear attack from North Korea. A lot of what you bring out in your post has nothing to do with a nuclear attack. The average South Korean does not worry much about a potential N. Korean attack any more.

[XXXIV]

They both live in Seoul and are pretty in tune with politics.

Political threads are banned.

Thanks.

[RobVarak]

I've had the solution for years, but nobody listens to me. Saturate North Korea with free copies of Starcraft. They'll be zombified slaves to the game in no time, just like their cousins to the South. They'll be too concerned with buying high-end gaming mice to go and do anything as diabolical as nuclear brinksmanship.

[XXXIV]

I've had the solution for years, but nobody listens to me. Saturate North Korea with free copies of Starcraft. They'll be zombified slaves to the game in no time, just like their cousins to the South. They'll be too concerned with buying high-end gaming mice to go and do anything as diabolical as nuclear brinksmanship.

The plan will be costly as only 2 of them have PCs.

[toonarmy]

They both live in Seoul and are pretty in tune with politics.

Political threads are banned.

Thanks.

Yes. Saying my friends are in tune with politics does not make this a political thread.

[XXXIV]

They both live in Seoul and are pretty in tune with politics.

Political threads are banned.

Thanks.

Yes. Saying my friends are in tune with politics does not make this a political thread.

Give me a f***in break.

When your entire bullshit point is based on political in tune ness then we are discussing politics.

[Feanor]

I've had the solution for years, but nobody listens to me. Saturate North Korea with free copies of Starcraft. They'll be zombified slaves to the game in no time, just like their cousins to the South. They'll be too concerned with buying high-end gaming mice to go and do anything as diabolical as nuclear brinksmanship.

The plan will be costly as only 2 of them have PCs.

Starcraft will run on PCs that cost under $200, maybe under $100.

[XXXIV]

I've had the solution for years, but nobody listens to me. Saturate North Korea with free copies of Starcraft. They'll be zombified slaves to the game in no time, just like their cousins to the South. They'll be too concerned with buying high-end gaming mice to go and do anything as diabolical as nuclear brinksmanship.

The plan will be costly as only 2 of them have PCs.

Starcraft will run on PCs that cost under $200, maybe under $100.

Good point.

Lets pass the cup around.

[Jared]

Political threads are banned.

Thanks.

Yes. Saying my friends are in tune with politics does not make this a political thread.

Give me a f***in break.

When your entire bullshit point is based on political in tune ness then we are discussing politics.

Unless this thread either turns into a liberal/conservative argument-fest, or if we have some posters from Pyongyang in here, I'm not considering this a political thread.

People can discuss current events, I have no problem with that. It's when they get partisan is when it's a problem. (And people are totally free to say that they're friends in a foreign country have a certain opinion.)

[10spro]

I actually had the chance to talk to a couple South Korean friends today about this issue. They both laughed it off. They told me people over there know there is no chance N. Korea would even think about sending a nuke into S. Korea since the fallout would likely affect N. Korea. And obviously N. Korea would not seriously consider attacking the U.S. or its ships since it would mean utter annihilation of N. Korea. It sounds to me like this crackpot leader is simply posturing for internal political reasons and has no desire to attack anyone since he knows he would be crushed. It's not like he hasn't pulled these stunts before. I guess the media bite every time and blow it out of proportion.

Perhaps your friends should reconsider. I fly often to S. Korea on business and in the past I had visited the demilitarized zone, the border that separates North & South Korea and let me tell you, it's tense out there. And that was two months ago and whenever I hear tourists taking a trip there, it's the same feeling. The tunnels that the N. Koreans built in the past is scary. They are massive, it covers miles and miles off territory and if you asked a S. Korean citizen in the street about the possibility of psycho Kim pushing the wrong button, and the threat is real. Very real. Japan is obviously very concerned about it too and all Asian countries surrounding this divided country.

On CNN last year, they had a story where a North Korean family was trying to reunite with theirs in the South, and the constant threat of death, fear and chance of being captured was an eye opener. I just feel for the innocent people, sure the Kim regime has many political reasons for their bizarre behavior, but people in the South don't take his threat lightly.

They both live in Seoul and are pretty in tune with politics. I believe them when they say they do not fear a nuclear attack from North Korea. A lot of what you bring out in your post has nothing to do with a nuclear attack. The average South Korean does not worry much about a potential N. Korean attack any more.

And I am not saying that you shouldn't believe them. Just because your friends don't fear the North does not mean that the threat is not real. What's average for you? Personally, I think that they are in the minority, I do a lot of business with Korean people that live in Seoul, many of them have become business partners and friends and from what I gather, they're all very conscientious of a nuclear threat.

Koreans are very proud people and like you said most are very much tuned with their local politics. And while most of the people that I know in Seoul are not fearful of an imminent attack, they feel the threat is real.

[10spro]

The North Korean Army is said to have 1,106,000 personnel while the South Korean Army has 687,000 along with 26,000 US forces present.

Just outside the Korean Demilitarized Zone, the North Korean force is reported to be 700,000 troops strong, over 8,000 artillery systems, and 2,000 tanks. Most of this force in the forward area is protected in over 4,000 underground facilities, the so called massive tunnels that I was referring to and they've built over the years.

[Brando70]

The North Korean Army is said to have 1,106,000 personnel while the South Korean Army has 687,000 along with 26,000 US forces present.

Just outside the Korean Demilitarized Zone, the North Korean force is reported to be 700,000 troops strong, over 8,000 artillery systems, and 2,000 tanks. Most of this force in the forward area is protected in over 4,000 underground facilities, the so called massive tunnels that I was referring to and they've built over the years.

Yes, and those tunnels have deterred a lot of military action against the North. There's not way to launch a quick strike to take out the North's ability to attack the South. At the very least North Korea could shell Seoul if anyone launches a military action against the North. The amount of civilian casualties in the South would likely be extremely high.

I like Rob's idea

[matthewk]

Prediction: This thread will not end well.

[JackB1]

Just curious.....what happens when "Lil Kim" kicks? Do they elect someone new or what?

N. Korea is basically telling the U.S. F.U. and they are going to keep progressing with their nuclear ambitions and we or someone else at some point is going to have to do something about it. N. Korea and Iran were always the major threats in the area....not Iraq.

[dbdynsty25]

N. Korea and Iran were always the major threats in the area....not Iraq.

And here we go.

[bdoughty]

N. Korea and Iran were always the major threats in the area....not Iraq.

And here we go.

Sadly but truly this thread will meet it's demise thanks to such comments from Jackb.

Written in 1988
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/nuke/program.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osirak

A Puppy Dog, Saddam was not. To think Iraq was no different than Iran in the desire to create Nuclear Weapons is... Probably time for this one to be locked up.

Mega

[Macca00]

I support Rob's idea.

[Jared]

N. Korea and Iran were always the major threats in the area....not Iraq.

And here we go.

To quote what I said earlier in the post:

People can discuss current events, I have no problem with that. It's when they get partisan is when it's a problem.

I'm not locking the thread...but please, don't turn this into a political thread.

And when someone starts to make it a political thread, other posters really don't need to follow Jack's lead and continue it down the political path.

(And I third/fourth the Starcraft idea. I don't get why they love the game so much in S. Korea...is it that enduringly awesome?)