Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by F308GTB »

Dave wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:57 am
I saw another rumor that Motorsport Games is in big trouble and NASCAR (and possibly IndyCar) is going to pull the license and move it to iRacing/Monster. I can't imagine a NASCAR console game would require an iRacing sub, but basically all of the assets (cars/tracks/AI) needed to make a standalone NASCAR game exist in iRacing today if Monster can package it as a standalone console product.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MSGM/

Stock games out at $30 last summer and is sitting at $4 today. Yeah, in a bit of trouble.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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This post could be in the Racing Season 2022 or the Racing Sim thread, but since it also includes the most recent update to rFactor 2 that includes the Indycar Dallara IR-18 with 2021 liveries I thought it best here. Last night there was a very cool racing sim event featuring many of the 2022 Indycar drivers sim racing at the Indianapolis GP course in a heat format using the newest version of rFactor 2 with the Indycar updates. I watched the main live coverage, as well as some of the streaming by the drivers (Newgarden, Daly, Grosjean, etc). Pretty awesome and fun to watch. Happy to see Indycar getting some racing sim love again from iRacing (recent release of the AI with Indy 500 oval) and rFactor 2 with new car, Indy update and 2021/2022 liveries.

INDYCAR PRO CHALLENGE IN ASSOCIATION WITH MOTORSPORT GAMES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVq4h_AY--0

Conor Daly - Virtual Indycar Challenge! INDY GP!
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1292770703

Josef Newgarden - INDYCAR Pro-Challenge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=watWHSA5wBw

Romain Grosjean - Indycar Pro challenge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cywkMSZM0gg

rFactor 2 2022 Season 1 Starts: Dallara IR-18, Ligier JS P320, BMW M4, Daytona Released
https://racesimcentral.net/rfactor-2-20 ... -released/
Studio 397 today deployed their first planned quarterly content update of the year, closely following the recently released UI update. This is the beginning of planned quarterly updates for content, the rFactor 2 software and also the rFactor 2 competition system that many have been waiting to officially launch for such a long time.

Similar to iRacing, rFactor 2 will now have quarterly racing seasons using it’s own competition system. Using both new and older content, there will be an array of options for racing at regular intervals (some every hour, some at set times throughout the day). Check out the schedule information.

New content out today:
– Current Dallara IR-18 Indy car with 2021 INDYCAR liveries
– Ligier JS P320 LMP3
– BMW M4 GT3
– Daytona International Speedway

Content updated:
– Norma M30 LMP3 V2.45
– Indianapolis Motor Speedway V1.16

Content trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1VohZh5LxU&t=10s

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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All well and good, Don. But did you read my recap story? https://www.indycar.com/News/2022/02/02 ... -Challenge

:) :) :)
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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I ran that IR18 combo at Indy Road a few months back in a trophy race on iRacing....that is a hell of a combo. So, so fun. Haven't tried rFactor 2 in years, though. I know they just revamped the UI, but...meh.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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TCrouch wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:39 pm
I ran that IR18 combo at Indy Road a few months back in a trophy race on iRacing....that is a hell of a combo. So, so fun. Haven't tried rFactor 2 in years, though. I know they just revamped the UI, but...meh.
Grosjean swears rFactor2 was better preparation than iRacing for him to learn the current INDYCAR machine and circuits last year.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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I don't doubt it. TK told me he wasn't a fan of the Indycars on iRacing... at all lol.

It's the interface I dislike most in rF2.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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The Xbox Series X|S Optimized version of Assetto Corsa Competizione will be released on February 22. This optimized version will include the following:

-Smooth 60fps gameplay
-4K visuals
-Free private multiplayer lobbies
-Our all-new 2021 Liveries update
-Smart Delivery Support

I've been playing the game on my Series X for the last 8 months and it is without a doubt my favorite console racing game. I think it runs at an average of 45 FPS on the Series X, and has slightly better than average graphics. I love the force feedback implementation in this game. It's got like 8 FF parameters to play with and I'm confident I still haven't found the perfect mix for my Thrustmaster TX Leather, but it's fun trying to tune them in.

The racing AI is superb. I've got it tuned to where I have to work to hold my position in the field. I'm embarrassed to reveal how low on the allowable AI skill and aggressiveness I had to go to achieve that, but even at that, it doesn't feel like they're laying down for me as we race. My biggest weakness is not breaking properly for turns and making steering corrections too late. I think the additional boost in frame rate will give me a little help with that in more immediate feedback. I can't wait until next Tuesday to try out what seems to me to be a new game!

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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Couldn't agree more with John.

Assetto Corsa Competizione is the finest racing game ever on a console, from a pure driving and racing perspective. It's unmatched. It never will leave my hard drive as long as I own an Xbox.

I'm tighter than two coats of paint, yet I have happily bought every bit of DLC -- usually during a sale :) -- for this incredible title.

My love for this game is odd and was unexpected considering the port of the original Assetto Corsa PC game to console was a mess. A terrible game with horrid controls, especially with a controller.

ACC drives beautifully with a controller. In fact, the only franchise that drives better with an Xbox game pad is Forza Motorsport. That's to be expected, considering Forza is an in-house Microsoft title.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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Too bad ACC is pretty terrible looking on the PC in VR compared to other titles,

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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pk500 wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:32 pm
Couldn't agree more with John.

Assetto Corsa Competizione is the finest racing game ever on a console, from a pure driving and racing perspective. It's unmatched. It never will leave my hard drive as long as I own an Xbox.

I'm tighter than two coats of paint, yet I have happily bought every bit of DLC -- usually during a sale :) -- for this incredible title.

My love for this game is odd and was unexpected considering the port of the original Assetto Corsa PC game to console was a mess. A terrible game with horrid controls, especially with a controller.

ACC drives beautifully with a controller. In fact, the only franchise that drives better with an Xbox game pad is Forza Motorsport. That's to be expected, considering Forza is an in-house Microsoft title.
Paul, I've never tried it with a controller, but you've got my curiosity aroused about it now, so I'll have a go at it. ACC just has staying power because it's just so consistently good at both driving and racing AI. I wasn't terribly impressed with the original Assetto Corsa that I picked up during a Steam sale on the PC, even with my wheel. This edition is a clear step change for the developer. I make a lot of mistakes with pit strategy, and more so, entering and leaving the pits efficiently. I'm so paranoid of drive through penalties for speeding that I'm now too deliberate. I'm getting better and I think the boost in frame rate will help me there.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

F308GTB wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:25 pm
Too bad ACC is pretty terrible looking on the PC in VR compared to other titles,
I haven't seen this game in VR, but come to think of it, I haven't seen any racing game in VR. My only link to VR is via my grandson's Occulus Quest 2. While it's reasonably nice for a $300 piece of hardware, I can't see it doing anything with a real racing simulation. How do you think ACC looks on a high def flat screen in the PC version? The screens I see seem to all be in 1080p, and they look pretty vanilla.

Oh, I did see this clip of gameplay on the upgraded PS5 version of ACC, also being released on the 22nd, at IGN. It's capped at 1080p, but it is running at 60 FPS and looks better than the PS4/XBox One/One X versions of the game running in the same res. I'd be curious to get your read on how it compares with what you've seen on the PC.

https://www.ign.com/videos/assetto-cors ... ay-trailer

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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J_Cauthen wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:23 pm
F308GTB wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:25 pm
Too bad ACC is pretty terrible looking on the PC in VR compared to other titles,
I haven't seen this game in VR, but come to think of it, I haven't seen any racing game in VR. My only link to VR is via my grandson's Occulus Quest 2. While it's reasonably nice for a $300 piece of hardware, I can't see it doing anything with a real racing simulation. How do you think ACC looks on a high def flat screen in the PC version? The screens I see seem to all be in 1080p, and they look pretty vanilla.
It looks great in pancake mode on a monitor, but after using VR it is hard to go back to playing on a flat monitor. VR just gives you a better sense of the road. My monitor isn t quite 4k; I have a Dell 34" ultrawide, which is 3440x1440.

You should give the original Assetto Corsa another try. While not as nice looking as ACC (well, except in VR where AC performs better) it has a ton of mods. Never-ending supply of quality free tracks and cars.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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F308GTB wrote:
Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:26 pm
You should give the original Assetto Corsa another try. While not as nice looking as ACC (well, except in VR where AC performs better) it has a ton of mods. Never-ending supply of quality free tracks and cars.
Yep. Too bad none came to console. Also unfortunate that the original AC ranks right up with the original Project Cars as the most egregious example of a PC racing game developer porting straight to console with no care or concern for the unique characteristics of console play. Kunos (Assetto) and the megalomaniacal Ian Bell at Simply Mad Studios (Project Cars) basically said: "F*ck it: Here it is for your precious little consoles. I don't give a f*ck if it controls like a rat on acid running on ice."

That's what made ACC for the Xbox such an incredibly pleasant surprise. It's marvelous.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

F308GTB wrote:
Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:26 pm
It looks great in pancake mode on a monitor, but after using VR it is hard to go back to playing on a flat monitor. VR just gives you a better sense of the road. My monitor isn t quite 4k; I have a Dell 34" ultrawide, which is 3440x1440.

You should give the original Assetto Corsa another try. While not as nice looking as ACC (well, except in VR where AC performs better) it has a ton of mods. Never-ending supply of quality free tracks and cars.
[/quote]

I actually did buy the original AC way back when during a Steam sale. I somewhat enjoyed it, but it felt a bit vanilla... I can't quite describe what it lacked, but it didn't give me the buzz to want to play it long term. I probably should have tried some add-ons and mods, but that was all happening about the time I'd gone heavy into console gaming, when the XBox One X came along and took Forza 7 and Forza Horizon 3 to a new level. I may check some of the mods out in the days ahead, but we're just a day away from the XBox Series X enhanced version of ACC to come out and I'm just as pumped for that as if it was a new game. I'll have to wait until my honeymoon with that is over! :lol:

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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pk500 wrote:
Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:33 pm
Yep. Too bad none came to console. Also unfortunate that the original AC ranks right up with the original Project Cars as the most egregious example of a PC racing game developer porting straight to console with no care or concern for the unique characteristics of console play. Kunos (Assetto) and the megalomaniacal Ian Bell at Simply Mad Studios (Project Cars) basically said: "F*ck it: Here it is for your precious little consoles. I don't give a f*ck if it controls like a rat on acid running on ice."

That's what made ACC for the Xbox such an incredibly pleasant surprise. It's marvelous.
I never tried the original AC on my XBox One, or XBox One X because I'd read and heard some many comments about it that are consistent with what you're saying above. I will say this for Project Cars... well, Project Cars 2 anyway - I still occasionally play PC2 because the force feedback steering implementation is really good. There's only a few cars classes that I feel like I was able to set up properly for car performance and handling, while having to fine tune the force feedback and steering wheel settings for each car type as well. Once I get all that right, it becomes a new experience. I just don't have the patience to do it for the wide variety of cars in the game, but I've more than gotten my $29.99 worth of enjoyment out of it.

Does a properly setup and tuned PC2 measure up to ACC on my Series X? No, but it would make life without ACC bearable. The difference between the two will probably be significant enough after tomorrow that I probably won't be able to say that any longer.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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The debate about VR/flat screens is close to my heart...I think I've switched back and forth between VR and flat screens 5 times in the past 6 years.

The depth perception is so nice in VR, but comfort/sweaty head makes it impossible to run for long endurance stints.

I do know ACC had abysmal performance in VR a while back, so I've barely played that game on PC, despite knowing it's great.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

The Assetto Corsa Competizione Series X update became available at 12:00 PM EST. I'm downloading it now. Back later with a report.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

I've now got 5 races under my belt with the Assetto Corsa Competizione XBox Series X Enhanced version and I'm stoked beyond measure with it! The rock steady 60 FPS (at least under the field sizes (20) and conditions I've run so far makes a bigger difference in my enjoyment of the game than I'd imagined. The level of fusion I feel with the car makes it a remarkably more visceral experience. I'm also able to be a little more adventurous with my maneuvering as the responsiveness of the car to my steering inputs gives me more feedback what's happening with the car.

I know they say they made graphical improvements and I do see some, but it's not quite the leap I'd thought it would be. There are some adjustments I need to make to the game's video settings that I wasn't aware of before the update. I saw that I had one that was set for a camera filter of "legend" (I think it was anyway). It yielded a sort of movie film look that I didn't find that appealing for a racing game. I changed it to "Default" and liked that much better. I've got to experiment with contrast, gamma, sharpness, and a few others a bit before I'm done. The racing is just so good that it's hard to tear myself away from it long enough to do some tweaking.

I must say that I find the force feedback effects to be significantly superior to those of the previous version, and they weren't bad to begin with. I wasn't expecting this much of a leap. I'm making corrections now that are avoiding spins thanks to better handling effects.

There are more subtle things about the update that I'll have to experience before I can comment on them. There's enough here overall though that I feel very much like this is a brand new game... very impressed!

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

Anyone else enjoy driving the GT4s more than the 3s? It's hard to describe, but it's like I can feel the mass of the GT4s more than the GT3s. The handling seems to be slightly more responsive as well. I wish there was a way to build a season using the GT4s. Maybe there is and I haven't figured it out yet. Loving this Series X enhanced version of the game though; it's probably my favorite racing game ever on a console, and that's coming from a guy who's never been a huge fan of GT racing.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

Downloaded GRID Legends last night for a free, 10-hour trial through EA Play. If anyone wants the remaining nine hours and 30 minutes on my trial, please take it.

This game is hot garbage.

GRID 2 was an arcade game, just like GRID Legends. But there was consistent weight in the controller feel and consistent friction in the very slidey grip model. It was fun to play, almost Project Gotham-esque, until you realized that damn near every car handled the same, whether it was a prototype or a GT4 car.

Cars also handle the same in GRID Legends, but the handling and grip models are terrible. The cars feel floaty as hell, and the steering is beyond pointy.

Another blemish: The story mode is beyond corny and stupid. I fear this is what EA will do to all of Codemasters' racing games.

On the plus side, GRID Legends is VERY pretty, with no framerate hiccups even on my 7-year-old OG Xbox One. But it's a pile of flaming feces other than that.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

I have a number of thoughts on GRID Legends, some of which jive with Paul's exactly.

I'm on Series X for this one and it is indeed a fantastically pretty thing. Codemasters was starting from a high base here, with GRID 2019 being a thoroughly good looking game, and what you get here is essentially an enhanced version of that. The lighting effects and reflections in particular are absolutely top drawer stuff. There's plenty to do as well, with the story mode having well over 30 chapters (of which only the first handful are made available during the trial) and the career being a much more structured, crafted affair than 2019's "Please amuse yourself with this s***-ton of unconnected championships" approach.

Whether you'll want to do any of it comes down to a few things. Firstly, there's the handling model. I don't find it to be floaty or pointy in the slightest, I have to say (I had to boot up the trial again just now, wanting to make sure I was definitely thinking of the right game). In fact, it's easier for me to place the cars exactly as I want to than in any GRID game bar Autosport. I do find it fairly samey, though. Variations between cars are usually noticeable but have no bearing whatsoever on how you drive them, with the huge, clanging, roaring exception of the stadium super trucks, which fall over if you so much as look at the steering wheel with intent to touch it, then stop turning the instant you apply power.

More than that, though, the nuance in 2019's handling model - and there was nuance - came from how the cars weren't completely planted. You could slide them around, particularly the more powerful vehicles, and the trick to going quickly was in how you managed that slide with throttle and steering. Same deal as Driver: San Francisco - you can mash every control as hard as you like and have a perfectly good time, but there's depth to it if you want there to be. In Legends, that's largely gone. You've got grip, which the game is happy for you to use, and you never really run out of it.

Other new additions fall flat. The Electric racing modes, for instance, have a boost zone, as if you were deploying Attack Mode in Formula E. You have to drive way off the racing line in order to trigger two checkpoints situated perhaps 50 metres apart. Triggering them gives you 3 power boosts to deploy around the lap. The idea here is that there's a risk/reward element - do you go for the boosts, knowing you'll lose time in the corner and carry the risk of missing the checkpoints, or play safe? The answer is "you go for the boosts", because you lose minimal amounts of time straying off line to activate them, then gain it all back with interest added as soon as you deploy the first boost. It's free lap time every time, you'd be daft not to use it and if you do contrive to miss the checkpoints, you've barely lost anything. There's just no jeopardy.

What else? How about a paragraph of random irritations. Having AI that make mistakes and have problems is good, but having them suddenly turn 90 degrees and start somersaulting down a straight is weird. One of the first races has a lighting glitch in it where about 30% of one particular corner looks like it's being viewed through a kaleidoscope that's recently been dropped. The post-race replays sometimes pause themselves when you enter them and won't start playing again. A bunch of the early career events feature 3 stages, the 3rd of which is locked until you drive x number of miles in the vehicle, where x is invariably over twice as many miles as you had to cover during the first 2 stages. All a bit grindy. Real world tracks, and I think particularly of Brands Hatch, turn in the right direction at the right time and have hills and dips in the right places, yet their layouts somehow still ended up being the kind of thing you'd expect if the licencing deal had fallen through at the last minute. Having 5 difficulty levels to choose from is nice, but this game needs at least 1 more on top, just to cater for the enormous number of people who'll be good enough to win consistently on the hardest level from the word go.

And yet. When you're on one of the fantasy tracks or city circuits (a huge number of which you'll remember from 2019), the AI are putting up a fight to maintain their position, the car you've just overtaken is trying to slipstream you back and the scenery is reflecting in the standing water on the road ahead...there are moments that just hit you right, moments where you see exactly what the game is trying to do and buy into it completely. At its heart, there's a very good racer trying its best to get out, and sometimes it manages.

Would I give the trial a look and see what I thought? Absolutely. Would I pay full price for it? God, no.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by DChaps »

Paul and Adam, thanks so much for the detailed info. You just saved me lots of download time. I may check out GRID Legends at some point, but given the fact that I have Assetto Corsa Competizione with all DLC for both PC and Xbox and have yet to dive into either of them in detail, I will probably just pass on GRID Legends for now. iRacing and Forza Horizon 4/5 have basically been my main gaming since COVID, with a little Automobilista 2 and Kart Kraft thrown in for good measure. At some point I need to give ACC the proper run through on both PC and console, especially after John's glowing review of the Series X version.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

DChaps wrote:
Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:54 pm
Paul and Adam, thanks so much for the detailed info. You just saved me lots of download time. I may check out GRID Legends at some point, but given the fact that I have Assetto Corsa Competizione with all DLC for both PC and Xbox and have yet to dive into either of them in detail, I will probably just pass on GRID Legends for now. iRacing and Forza Horizon 4/5 have basically been my main gaming since COVID, with a little Automobilista 2 and Kart Kraft thrown in for good measure. At some point I need to give ACC the proper run through on both PC and console, especially after John's glowing review of the Series X version.
Don't waste a second with GRID Legends, Don. Spend all of that time on ACC -- it's absolutely magnificent. The best racing game I've ever played on a console, and I've played a few ... :)
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

pk500 wrote:
Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:53 pm
Don't waste a second with GRID Legends, Don. Spend all of that time on ACC -- it's absolutely magnificent. The best racing game I've ever played on a console, and I've played a few ... :)
I can attest to what Paul is saying here Don. I've played 3 hours of Grid Legends now, via the trial mode. While it looks interesting and has a unique graphics style, I'm just not feeling it. It runs smoothly at 60 FPS on the Series X, but to me it feels like it's too much on rails. It also seems to reward recklessly aggressive driving more than I'd like. GRID Legends gets a little closer to having enough force feedback steering wheel tuning to afford a better handling feel, but no matter what, I can't escape the "on rails" feel.

The Series X Enhanced ACC, on the other hand, continues to amaze me in so many ways. It's got the best steering, handling, and force feedback effects I've ever experienced in console racing game. At 60 FPS, I can definitely feel the disposition of the car so much better in the enhanced version. It seems like the boosted frame rate helps the forced feedback than I would have imagined. Cresting the hill coming into the first bend at Brands Hatch, it's almost eerie how I can feel the car getting light on its chassis in incredible fidelity. Better yet, I can feel the car settling itself as I make the necessary corrections to avoid drifting left off the track there. 8O

The AI in ACC is second to none, console and PC racers, IMO. I'm running a season of 20 minute races. I find that I typically qualify in the third quartile of the field. I feel like I've done something if I finish in the top half, and I'm usually satisfied if I don't lose more than one or two spots. The AI drivers I'm racing against interact with me in the same manner as humans of comparable skill to me. I love the back and forth with them! I've got the AI strength set to 82% to achieve this competitive mix, just to give you an idea of where I'm at on the driving ladder :oops: :D

There are spots in certain tracks where ACC drops well below 60 FPS, particularly if you're running in a field of 20 cars or more, but it's infrequent enough so as not to be a bother to me... so far. My biggest problem in ACC is getting into and out of the pits without losing time. Even with my pit limiter set to AUTO, I still manage to get speeding penalties, requiring drive throughs, and that puts me out of contention in 20 minute races. I also have trouble stopping at the optimum point in the pit and it seems that the more distance you are away from the target, the crew takes a longer time to get you corrected and lifted. I'm getting better at this and enjoying the challenge, but it will be an ongoing battle for me for as long as I wind up playing it!

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

DChaps wrote:
Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:54 pm
Paul and Adam, thanks so much for the detailed info. You just saved me lots of download time. I may check out GRID Legends at some point, but given the fact that I have Assetto Corsa Competizione with all DLC for both PC and Xbox and have yet to dive into either of them in detail, I will probably just pass on GRID Legends for now. iRacing and Forza Horizon 4/5 have basically been my main gaming since COVID, with a little Automobilista 2 and Kart Kraft thrown in for good measure. At some point I need to give ACC the proper run through on both PC and console, especially after John's glowing review of the Series X version.
Don, ACC with the Series X Enhanced update attached, is IMO, a new game. ACC wasn't a bad game at all, but they've clearly taken it to a new level with the update. I can't think of a game I own in which 60 FPS made more of a difference! I love the very human like (well, sporting humans anyway :wink: ) competitive feel that the AI provides in ACC. It's gotten even better with the update as well. ACC Series X Enhanced is my favorite console racing game of all time!

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