Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Dave »

It kinda looks like a Monster Games greatest hits with SRX added—probably not going to bite at $40 but there are some cool and interesting tracks that could be fun to race with the variety of vehicles. And we finally get Willy T Ribbs, Michael Waltrip, and Helio Castroneves on the same track.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

Dave wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 11:41 am
It kinda looks like a Monster Games greatest hits with SRX added—probably not going to bite at $40 but there are some cool and interesting tracks that could be fun to race with the variety of vehicles. And we finally get Willy T Ribbs, Michael Waltrip, and Helio Castroneves on the same track.
I'm sure it's the same engine as NASCAR Heat 5 and the Tony Stewart Dirt Track and short-track games. Fun, but not realistic and not worth $40 to me.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by wabash97 »

EDIT: I found some. Fun game so far.

Does anyone have decent controller settings for project cars 2? Thought I’d try it out ... .

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

Apologies for the little deviation: I've got a bit of a retro question to ask you all.

It's dawning on me that thanks to the wonders of modern technology, I can now go back and play all of the games I might have played when I was younger if they'd ever been released in Europe. We tended not to see games based around your domestic series, so no NHRA games for instance, and where a series did make it here, it did so with a fair number of gaps left to plug - as an example, after NASCAR 2000, EA's next release over here was NASCAR 2006: Total Team Control, and none of the 'original' Heat games made it here. I thought I might enlist your help in plugging them.

So far, I've had a look at CART World Series on PS1, CART Flag To Flag on Dreamcast and NASCAR Thunder 2004 on PS2. Thunder is absolutely brilliant now I've got it running smoothly on PCSX2, World Series seems alright and Flag To Flag is...well, it's interesting. I've got the 16-bit era covered so I'm mainly looking at PS1/Saturn/N64 era onwards - what are the US-only racing games you'd recommend prioritising over all others on my little look through the past?

One slightly peculiar exception to my 'domestic series' rule, by the way, is that WoO: Sprint Cars did get a very limited PAL release. I've got no idea why. Like a fool, I tried to trade in my copy at a major UK games retailer and was offered £1 because their system didn't recognise it.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Dave »

Thinking, thinking, thinking...the two Codemasters IndyCar Series come to mind, goodness the online racing of the second one was brilliant the two or three times it actually worked. There were a couple IndyCar dogs released that maybe would be fun in a bad way, one for N64 and another for PC (ABC Sports Road to Indy maybe?). You mentioned WoO, it was definitely brilliant.

If I'm remembering right, NASCAR 05 Chase for the Cup was considered a high point for EA before Total Team Control and Apathy took over.

But I'm mostly coming up empty, when I think back to that era ToCA and Colin McRae are the ones I think of more than any other.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

EA's Sports Car GT had moments back in the late 90s.

Test Drive Le Mans was brilliant on the Dreamcast.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by DChaps »

Indianapolis 500 Evolution for the Xbox 360, but I think that actually may have been a world wide release.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by F308GTB »

Some which I don't think got a PAL release

Demolition Racer for the Dreamcast was pretty good.

Susan Vasar for the Dreamcaddt is a funky Japanese game

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

Wow, what a response. Thanks all, much appreciated.
Dave wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:09 am
Thinking, thinking, thinking...the two Codemasters IndyCar Series come to mind, goodness the online racing of the second one was brilliant the two or three times it actually worked. There were a couple IndyCar dogs released that maybe would be fun in a bad way, one for N64 and another for PC (ABC Sports Road to Indy maybe?). You mentioned WoO, it was definitely brilliant.

If I'm remembering right, NASCAR 05 Chase for the Cup was considered a high point for EA before Total Team Control and Apathy took over.
The ICS games completely slipped my mind. Both were brilliant and both released in PAL territories, though for the life of me I couldn't explain how that came to be viewed as a sound business decision. The N64 IndyCar game definitely wouldn't have been released in these parts so I'll check that out, and a quick YouTube look at ABC Sports Indy Racing has been quite something. The sadness in Tom Sneva's eyes during the FMV sequences is a sight to behold.
pk500 wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:06 am
EA's Sports Car GT had moments back in the late 90s.

Test Drive Le Mans was brilliant on the Dreamcast.
Sports Car GT is a great shout. I didn't have a PC in the late 90s and the PS1 version reviewed badly over here so I didn't try it out. I'll give the PC version a look and see how much of the later ISI games I can recognise in it. Test Drive Le Mans was Le Mans 24 Hours over here - I own a copy on PS2 but have never played it on Dreamcast, which is where everyone seemed to rave about it, so will do that too.
DChaps wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:41 pm
Indianapolis 500 Evolution for the Xbox 360, but I think that actually may have been a world wide release.
There was a publishing deal in place for a PAL release which fell through when Zushi Games went bust, leaving developer Brain In A Jar in the lurch. The game's Wikipedia article says it came out here in February 2010 but that didn't happen. Brain In A Jar's founder Carl Dalton told me they were working on a new deal but that in the meantime, their game was not region locked and I might want to import a copy, so I did.

It was region locked, there wasn't a new deal and that was how I came to import a US XB360 solely to play one budget racing title.
F308GTB wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:44 pm
Some which I don't think got a PAL release

Demolition Racer for the Dreamcast was pretty good.

Susan Vasar for the Dreamcaddt is a funky Japanese game
I loved Demolition Racer on PS1 but you're right, we didn't get the Dreamcast edition, which a quick Google tells me came a year later with various enhancements and a bunch of added content - that's definitely worth a look. I'm going to need to read more into Zusar Vasar tomorrow just to make sure I didn't dream any of what I just watched.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by F308GTB »

F308GTB wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:44 pm
Some which I don't think got a PAL release

Demolition Racer for the Dreamcast was pretty good.

Susan Vasar for the Dreamcaddt is a funky Japanese game
I really need to turn spell check off!

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by F308GTB »

New update and DLC for AMS2. The USA expansion pack with Long Beach, Daytona, and Laguna Seca road courses and a nice number of cars. Long Beach has been a favorite track for years and underrepresented in sims. I fell in love with it in F355 Challenge on the Dreamcast and arcade, and while the current circuit is slightly different than the late 90s layout the guts are there. Taking the Porsche GT3 Cup car for a spin in VR was freaking bliss. The AI was a bit wonky in the opening laps, but a few laps in and the racing was awesome. The bumpy road surface in spots, the handling of the Porsche, and frantic pace to recover positions lost at the start was great. The new update seems to have resolved some VR issues I was having with the Reverb G2.

I can now only hope that Reiza put Sebring in either part 2 or 3 of the American expansion pack as it is another favorite of mine. The Rf2 implementation shows off the bumpy surface and unsettles your ride. I so want the same in AMS2. COTA, Road America, and the Glen would be great adds too.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

I've started to see a few comments suggesting that recent updates have made now a very good time to be jumping into AMS2. The content appeals just as much as it did first time around, some of the newer additions to the car and track lists are right up my street, yet I'm still a bit concerned that my enjoyment of titles using the Madness engine seems to be inversely proportional to the price I pay. Next Steam sale, I think I might be in.

On a similar theme, I've just put a shopping basket together for a Fanatec CSL DD pre-order and I suddenly don't feel very well. Already tickling 800 Euro, with a load cell kit still to buy separately once it's released and customs fees to pay (the Brexit dividend, I think they call it. I would say more but I'll only end up weeping), entry to the Fanatec system might cost a four-figure sum. I could easily stick another 400 Euro on top if I went for Clubsport pedals and a Clubsport Formula rim. Maybe I like the G29 more than I thought I did...

F308GTB wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:39 pm
F308GTB wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:44 pm
Susan Vasar for the Dreamcaddt is a funky Japanese game
I really need to turn spell check off!
Ha! Took me a few minutes to figure out what I needed to be looking for, via an educational detour through the School of Herbal Medicine's website. Susan's lived a life that's full.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

The danger with Fanatec...once you're "in" the ecosystem, it's very tough to get out. If you console race, it's kind of a no-brainer, because it just works.

But I literally just replaced every bit of Fanatec kit I had in the past couple of months, and breaking out of the ecosystem was equivalent to getting out of debt once you're deep in. You want to use another rim with their wheelbase? Pay for their hubs.

You have software that's sketchy and freaks out from time to time (I lost FF in the middle of an endurance race a couple of times).

I went from a Podium DD2 with 13 different rims and Fanatec V3s with their SQ shifter and handbrake, and completely replaced all of it in the span of about 3 months. Talk about worries/butterflies in your stomach. That's the only concern I have for Fanatec...and their customer service has a long track record of being the worst in the industry if something DOES go wrong.

But that CSL DD is a solid price for DD performance, even if you add on the power brick to bring it to 8Nm. My Simucube 2 Pro does 25Nm and I never use that. Maybe 12 to 14, but I wouldn't be "suffering" if I only ran 8. You don't need strength with a DD, just the torque slew rate and instant response.

However, if you DO go with the Fanatec base...I've still got the Fanatec Formula V2 and McLaren V2 with the quick disconnect adapter on it that I can give you for less than half of what they cost new. I sold a lot of my Fanatec stuff but still have some bits that could offset some of the entry price for you if you want.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

That's a very kind and very tempting offer, mate. Much appreciated. Mind if I drop you a line as soon as I'm done dithering over making a decision?

I know I want to upgrade, because I've been using basically the same tech for nearly 15 years now and there's clearly a massive leap to be made in terms of immersion and feel. I suspect the arrival of a mid-range DD wheel might sound the death knell for belt-driven kit, I'd like something with console compatibility too and whatever I get will need to be something I can mount to a desk, so there's no point me looking at something high-end with massive peak forces.

That all feels like it's funnelling me towards the CSL DD, but...it's a big old money pit, there's that legendary customer service and while I think their kit is more reliable than it used to be, it's not exactly a spotless record they've got. In saying that, I'm not sure there's an obvious alternative.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Dave »

After getting a DOA Thrustmaster TX set last year (and awful customer service) I took the Fanatec plunge and am happy with how much of an upgrade it feels like over my old Logitech. The CSL DD seems like an awfully good route if you don't want to go Terry's higher-end route, but as you're seeing even that gets expensive quickly.

Maybe waiting a while longer will bring some other lower-priced DD options to the table?
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

Honestly, until you reach a certain "tier" (not really skill level but just information level, I guess), you'd never have a problem with Fanatec assuming something doesn't break.

I physically broke their SQ shifter and had my Clubsport V2 go out on me and support was completely useless. There are so many horror stories of their support over the years from close friends of mine (having to send videos of something happening then they'll just say "no" and waste your time), that you're rolling the dice there.

However...the reason I wanted out is the tiny details--slightly 'grainy' feel to their wheels, even the Podium DD2. Being locked into a specific ecosystem with anything I wanted. Using external rims with their base requires me to buy an expensive hub for each one. Later wheel releases seemed to use cheaper and cheaper stuff (and then that strategy was backed up by their 'entry level' CSL line announcement). Eventually, I did enough research to understand the difference between bases like the Simucube 2 Pro or VRS base, and knew I wanted to make the jump. But if you used a Logitech or Thrustmaster for 15 years, no matter what, the CSL DD will be LEAPS AND BOUNDS better. As long as you don't have any hardware/software problems with it :)

DD has been coming down more and more in the past year or two (Simagic released their cheaper base last year, and now VRS is the cheapest around, and the CSL DD is the new 'low point', even though you add another few hundred bucks with their power brick and any rim).

So the longer you wait, the more stuff will come down, just like anything in the tech market. But if you constantly wait for the best thing you'll never make the jump :D

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

Having failed to come up with a sensible alternative and knowing I'll never order anything if I don't do it now, I ordered a CSL DD and the new pedal set a couple of nights ago. I'll stick a load cell kit in there once there's a load cell kit to stick in there too. I should apparently expect it to ship in late October, though I've also ordered a pinch of salt to take that information with.

On balance, it still seems like the most cost-effective way of improving the quality of my kit without getting too carried away with it. On top of that, there was no saving to be made from sticking with the Logitech because I'd have bought a new guitar with the money instead...
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

Congrats, man! Fanatec is usually pretty spot-on when it comes to the release day stuff. When they sent me the email, the release window was like September 10th or something. Then that wave sells, and they move the date back for each wave. So you should get it right when they claim you should. I think with my McLaren V2 rim it was actually a few weeks earlier than they said when I ordered it.

Good equipment doesn't necessarily make you faster (except a good load cell brake), but my God, how it makes it more fun/immersive! :lol:

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

While I'm happy to see the announcement of Forza Horizon 5 releasing this November, the news comes with a troubling subplot: What's the future of the Forza Motorsport series?

Microsoft and Turn 10 previously alternated years of release of Forza and Horizon since Horizon's debut. The new FM game one year, the new Horizon the next. And so on.

But the last Forza game to be released before FH5 this fall was FH4 in September 2018. FM7 was released in October 2017.

I sure hope MS isn't abandoning the Forza Motorsport series or putting it on the back burner behind Horizon. The FM series easily is the best comprehensive car racing/collecting/customizing console franchise ever.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

pk500 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:40 pm
While I'm happy to see the announcement of Forza Horizon 5 releasing this November, the news comes with a troubling subplot: What's the future of the Forza Motorsport series?
Still coming, eventually:

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/forza ... ed-to-know

Very much flying under the radar for the time being, though. I'd be tempted to say that keeps it out of the way of Horizon's pre-launch hype window but by this point, you'd think any confusion between the two series would be long since sorted out.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Dave »

It's me, the guy who decided what the hell, why not put this GameStop credit towards the SRX game. This is the first game of the Monster/Tony Stewart collaboration that I've tried.

Played it for about an hour or so last night and it seems like a fun and basic game with a lot of different cars and tracks, definitely not anything remotely close to a sim and honestly the game's handling model that came to mind was Need for Speed Pro Street...random. Some impressions:

Race 1, SRX at Lucas Oil (I still call it Indianapolis) Raceway Park
Sign one that the driving model isn't the focus here: the AI took the corners like a typical "enter high, dive low to the apex, exit high" corner instead of running what should have been a faster line against the wall. The AI acted reasonably well, but I was able to carve through the field quickly during both heats to start first and run away with the feature race on hard difficulty. On the bright side, I got to spin out Paul Tracy a couple times and the hill I spent many summer nights on at the track is there so I enjoyed it.

Next up, career mode starting in Sprint Cars
The steering is a little notch-y and not detailed enough for me to come to grips fully with this car. I kept qualifying in the 25-40 range and making into the A-main was a real challenge. Again, the AI seemed fine to race against and I'm assuming the career mode is one of those where you struggle until upgrading the car enough, then you can win and move on to whatever series is next.

Overall, it's fine so far and $40 seems like a fair price if you're looking for short track racing on a console.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

Dave:

Have you raced the dirt late models in NASCAR Heat 4, the sprint cars and midgets in Tony Stewart's Sprint Car Racing or the late models and street stocks in All-American Racing? Apparently, the SRX game is from the same developers and uses the same physics engine.

If so, then I'll probably just stick with those. Glad you're digging it, though.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Dave »

I haven’t, and that’s part of the reason I was ok dropping 40 bones on this game. Seems like a greatest hits, plus SRX package of everything up to this point.

And this afternoon my youngest son had a great time playing as “Elliot” Castroneves and winning on the easier modes.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

If you're a Steam user, you might like to check out the Next Fest, in which a huge number of demos are available to play from now until 22nd June. Chief among the demos that might trouble this thread are WRC 10 and RiMS Racing, the new motorcycle sim built around Kylotonn's IoM:TT engine.

There's also a Motorsport Games publisher sale in which KartKraft is available with 66% off over here - that takes it down to £5.73, which is essentially theft, so hopefully there's a similarly chunky discount available at your end. If there is, jump on it immediately, if not sooner.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

The original Isle of Man TT game is $4.99 this week through Xbox Deals with Gold.

While the sequel has better physics, the riding model of the first game still blows away anything that Milestone has released for its MotoGP and Ride franchises. Plus the pucker factor and sense of speed are second to none in any current-gen racing game.

So, if you have mastered the challenge of learning all of the corners of the 14-mile Nordschleife in car racing games, it may be time for you to get a grip on the 37.7-mile Snaefell Mountain course from the Isle of Man TT, captured in detailed glory in this fine game.

Fair warning: This game is hard. You will fall -- a lot. But it's definitely worth a flyer for $5.
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