Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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DChaps
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by DChaps »

Ok, so when are we going to try and resurrect a DSP Poker night or WOO League? :)

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

DChaps wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:13 pm
Ok, so when are we going to try and resurrect a DSP Poker night or WOO League? :)
Interested in Poker Night, in which we all race for second behind Terry.

Don't have time for a league.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

Assetto Corsa Competizione received its 1.8 update last week on the PS5 and Series X. I'd forgotten about it until I checked on its status yesterday. I downloaded it last night for my Series X and gave it a run through. It was immediately evident that it had received some graphical upgrades, particularly with the lighting, skybox. car and track shaders, and the dust/dirt build up on the windshield.

There are number physics upgrades, which even on their own are enough to make it feel like a new game. They say that the physics engine now runs at 400hz. I don't know what it was before, but the handling feels so much more responsive with my Thrustmaster TX. The biggest problem I'd had with this game previously was braking. It just never seemed like the pedal movement responded sharply enough and I was always late and a little bit short on brake pressure. That is no longer a problem with this new physics engine!

Every other aspect of handling is improved through this new physics engine. The steering was always good in this game, but it's reached a new level with the 1.8 update. I know they say the frame rate hasn't been improved, but because every element of the car's handling is more responsive through the 400hz physic engine's feedback, it dang sure feels like the frame rate has improved. I'm loving it it, and I'm not that much of a GT racing fan... this will eventually convert me to one as I now feel more like I'm driving a car than a tank!

I'm dumbfounded, but delighted that KUNOS Simulazioni provided such a comprehensive update, this far into the life of the game. They could have slapped a few new cars and tracks into this and sold it as a new game!

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

DChaps wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:13 pm
Ok, so when are we going to try and resurrect a DSP Poker night or WOO League? :)
I don't own the game, nor does it seem to be available physically here, nor do I want to pay 50 quid for it digitally. But if there's a Poker Night, I will forget all of those things and make sure I'm there.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

GB_Simo wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:12 pm
I don't own the game, nor does it seem to be available physically here, nor do I want to pay 50 quid for it digitally. But if there's a Poker Night, I will forget all of those things and make sure I'm there.
Trust me, matey: WoO is worth 50 quid, and then some. GREAT game.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by fletcher21 »

Picked up WoO after PK bought it at full price. So far, it's really fun! I can see this type of game being hell on the controller sticks.

One thing I am let down by is the damage model, or lack there of. The main letdown is that there isn't enough dirt/mud. These cars throw mud around like crazy in real life, but it's not replicated here. And where are the tear off strips that slowly fill with mud? WoO 2002 had that. Making a pass when half your view was obstructed by mud was a white knuckle experience. Is this a setting that I have turned off, or is it not present?

Also, how important are setups in this game? I am 3 races into my career.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

Damage model is weak. One of the few low points of the game, along with lack of tear-off strips.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Teal »

Damage isn't it's strong point, but for me, it really doesn't matter. It would be nice to see the dirt fly, but not at the expense of the frame rate.

I will likely move up to the higher sim level soon to fiddle with setups. No setups on "normal".

But as pk has alluded to before, I'm not much of a sim guy. I just don't enjoy replicating real life in a game any more. I like simple, fire and forget, with enough sim to make it feel like I'm driving.

This game has that nailed perfectly.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by AcemanPR »

I feel the same way, I used to be more of a sim guy in racers but now it’s about fun. I’m deciding between World of Outlaws and Dakar Desert Rally. I think both will drop in price in the next couple months so I may wait for that and get them both. I loved the original World of Outlaws game myself!

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by fletcher21 »

I’d get WoO now. The career mode is very deep and addicting!

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by fletcher21 »

J_Cauthen wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:42 am
Assetto Corsa Competizione received its 1.8 update last week on the PS5 and Series X. I'd forgotten about it until I checked on its status yesterday. I downloaded it last night for my Series X and gave it a run through. It was immediately evident that it had received some graphical upgrades, particularly with the lighting, skybox. car and track shaders, and the dust/dirt build up on the windshield.

There are number physics upgrades, which even on their own are enough to make it feel like a new game. They say that the physics engine now runs at 400hz. I don't know what it was before, but the handling feels so much more responsive with my Thrustmaster TX. The biggest problem I'd had with this game previously was braking. It just never seemed like the pedal movement responded sharply enough and I was always late and a little bit short on brake pressure. That is no longer a problem with this new physics engine!

Every other aspect of handling is improved through this new physics engine. The steering was always good in this game, but it's reached a new level with the 1.8 update. I know they say the frame rate hasn't been improved, but because every element of the car's handling is more responsive through the 400hz physic engine's feedback, it dang sure feels like the frame rate has improved. I'm loving it it, and I'm not that much of a GT racing fan... this will eventually convert me to one as I now feel more like I'm driving a car than a tank!

I'm dumbfounded, but delighted that KUNOS Simulazioni provided such a comprehensive update, this far into the life of the game. They could have slapped a few new cars and tracks into this and sold it as a new game!
Absolutely!!! Best console racer ever made

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

AcemanPR wrote:
Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:23 am
I feel the same way, I used to be more of a sim guy in racers but now it’s about fun. I’m deciding between World of Outlaws and Dakar Desert Rally. I think both will drop in price in the next couple months so I may wait for that and get them both. I loved the original World of Outlaws game myself!
Haven't played Dakar. Not too interested in it. But you can't go wrong with WoO.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by fletcher21 »

I'm at work, thinking about WoO. Last time this happened was for Witcher 3

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

OK, I'm glad I'm not crazy :lol:

I keep coming back to this, and Don--I'm just racing with a plain old controller but I only have it on PS5. I'd have no problem picking it up on XBox if this is actually gonna be a thing.

I think for the most part, the only thing I have is 10% of the first meter, whatever that was. Not the driving assistance and not the wall avoidance. And I tried all sorts of controller tweaking, but then I found what made it so good...

It's the THROTTLE that controls everything. Not the stick. I'll pitch it in, jab the brake (sometimes), and then like 2% more trigger changes how the car behaves through the corner. I've even tried the 'medium' one (where it adds some to all 3 meters), and for me that seems to be a really good setting for Hard AI. The "expert" and "legend" are untouchable with any of the assists on. On my "10% and nothing else" setting, I can duel it out with Expert AI, but I'd need a wheel for Legend, I think.

All of the cars handle so differently. 305s at a track are very different than 360s, and those 410s are BEASTS. And yet, the Late Models are fun in their own way...I do know I went in and tweaked the AI settings a lot.

I created a bigger spread of consistency (think it was down on the meter).
Wider race starts for more moves.
I made it so like wheel to wheel contact MASSIVELY screws my car (it will launch it in the air).
The AI are destabilized more with tiny contact.

That basically made the AI very cautious--they won't send it so hard because it's like they are aware that they will screw their race if you hold your line, so I can actually pitch it in, hold it low, and they don't just knock me out of the way. I've had total duels with 3 and 4 car packs just changing lines, attacking each other from different angles every corner.

Honestly, it's the most fun in a console racer that I've had in decades. Way more than any Forza Horizon, more than any mainline Forza, more than Gran Turismo (which I bought but have yet to really play).

If this can become a weekly get together like we are all 20 or 30 year olds again, it would be like turning back the clock for the old farts :lol:

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

Teal wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 4:44 pm
But as pk has alluded to before, I'm not much of a sim guy. I just don't enjoy replicating real life in a game any more. I like simple, fire and forget, with enough sim to make it feel like I'm driving.
That's the thing. I'm still WAY into this....like, big time. Still doing major iRacing leagues on "Pro" broadcasted streams and crap every week.

Like this one from last week:

https://youtu.be/CUN26A8ZOhE?t=5441

But this game is such a throwback to just chill, run a quick "X" laps, try a few quick race sessions. Try different cars. The career mode is so awesome that I'm just working my way through regionals, STILL in a 305! Haven't even purchased a 360 yet lol

I love me some hardcore simulation stuff, but there's a time and a place for it. This is NOT the place :lol:

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by fletcher21 »

Terry is a fully modified 305 faster than a stock 360?

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

Nah. But it's faster than the "non-career 305" you'd drive, in my experience. I'm on 'stage 4' of the 305 upgrade path, as I haven't unlocked Nationals yet so I couldn't buy stage 5. And it's about the same times I get in quick races on 305s.

Lately, I've started just racing quick races with "normal" controls (so it has some wall avoidance assist and stuff) and Hard AI, and it's been the perfect 'sit and race' game. Not a lot of practice time needed, really fighting for positions with the front runners. Always about top 5 pace, but gotta WORK for wins, because it nerfs your throttle output a little to keep you steady on exits.

Been a great time. I'd absolutely LOVE some old school poker nights with this one.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

pk500 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:46 pm
Trust me, matey: WoO is worth 50 quid, and then some. GREAT game.
Got it downloaded tonight. Had time for a quick race at Volusia and another at Kokomo in 360 Sprints, then a race at Eldora in the Street Stocks I should have used in the first place. Initial thoughts:

- I'm not especially good at loose surface driving so had already checked my ego at the door, but the Skilled difficulty has me thinking I'll be here for a long time before I consider trying the two levels above it.

- That AI is everything you promised it would be. Multiple lines, aware of your presence, ran me over once during the Qualify Dash at Kokomo but since I'm running them over every other lap, sometimes on the straights, that was probably my fault too.

- I feel like I get the basics of the handling model straight away. I also feel like I'd be going much faster if I understood the depths of it. That's perfect for console racing - you can get round the track reasonably well straight away, but you'll be a long way from maximising your speed, so there's plenty to dig into.

- More play time needed to understand this, but I'm better relative to the AI in the A Main than I am in the Qualify Dash. At Kokomo I finished 5th in the A Main but in the Dash, the only reason I finished 8th was that there weren't 9 cars in the race. At Eldora I won the A Main beating a couple of cars I couldn't quite hang with the race prior. Could just be me improving through the rounds, I suppose, but I felt like a fish up a tree throughout so I'd be surprised.

Am I having fun? Just a bit...
AcemanPR wrote:
Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:23 am
I feel the same way, I used to be more of a sim guy in racers but now it’s about fun. I’m deciding between World of Outlaws and Dakar Desert Rally. I think both will drop in price in the next couple months so I may wait for that and get them both. I loved the original World of Outlaws game myself!
I would be amazed if Dakar Desert Rally didn't drop in price quite quickly. It seems to be reviewing very well, but it's such a niche title. The first one was full of good ideas executed badly, so it's good to see that the developers seemed to have learned lessons from that effort.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

GB_Simo wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:28 pm
- I feel like I get the basics of the handling model straight away. I also feel like I'd be going much faster if I understood the depths of it. That's perfect for console racing - you can get round the track reasonably well straight away, but you'll be a long way from maximising your speed, so there's plenty to dig into.
This is so true, especially in the 305 Sprints. You can pin the throttle for the entire lap in those cars at many tracks since it's the lowest-powered sprint car in the game. And the inclination is to think that's the fastest way around the track.

But that's not always the case.

Teal and I raced each other Saturday night at a track where we were super-competitive against each other earlier last week. But on Saturday night, I dusted the entire field by nearly five seconds in a 15-lap feature because I blipped the throttle for a split-second entering Turns 1 and 3. It was a lucky, unexpected discovery, as I was f*cked up (SHOCKER there, I know!) and couldn't remember if this was a track where you could go flat or not.

So, I blipped on the first two laps. And I looked into my mirror and saw cars disappearing. I also felt the car hook up at the apex of corners after blipping in a way I hadn't experienced before with this game. That's a credit to the game's handling model -- you can REALLY feel it when you're hooked up in a way that's hard to explain but so effing enjoyable to experience.

Glad you bought this one, Simo!
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Teal »

pk500 wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:34 pm

Teal and I raced each other Saturday night at a track where we were super-competitive against each other earlier last week. But on Saturday night, I dusted the entire field by nearly five seconds in a 15-lap feature because I blipped the throttle for a split-second entering Turns 1 and 3. It was a lucky, unexpected discovery, as I was f*cked up (SHOCKER there, I know!) and couldn't remember if this was a track where you could go flat or not.

Yeah, PK found something the other night. Something I have yet to replicate. Jacob's County was MY track in Tony Stewart. I couldn't be touched most of the time there. PK dusted me. I was second, but couldn't catch him. Just a phenomenal game.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

GB_Simo wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:28 pm
I'm not especially good at loose surface driving so had already checked my ego at the door, but the Skilled difficulty has me thinking I'll be here for a long time before I consider trying the two levels above it.
One thing with this game that took me a bit to figure out, especially on a controller--the order of operations is VERY important (especially in Sprint Cars).

You must turn in for a corner, THEN lift. Not the reverse, like most road racing turns. That blip PK mentioned is what makes it go faster.

That big wing sticks it down into the track, so when you try to lift and turn, the car just sorta pushes across the turn. When you snap the sucker in with an abrupt turn, THEN lift, you can use modulated throttle to control how much you want it to push around.

Ideally, you don't want to slide at all--that's why just pinning the throttle while the tires spin looks and feels cool, but is actually slower. I want that thing just covering distance and not completely sideways. In most tracks I'll just be pitching it in, lifting and then feathering the throttle to prevent major wheelspin every corner and getting good exits.

I finally got to the 360 Sprints in career mode last night, and holy crap in career mode those things are insane. Simply because they handle like crap and just slip-slide across the track with no grip for the early hours (before you can upgrade them).

This game just keeps on giving.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

Another plus of WoO: The fictional tracks, nearly all carried over from Tony Stewart's Sprint Car Racing, are almost all excellent.

I've seen a few complaints that not every track in the real World of Outlaws circuit is included in the game. Are you sh*tting me? WoO races on nearly 50 tracks around the country each year. No racing game has 50 licensed tracks. Plus most of the biggies -- Eldora, Knoxville, Williams Grove -- are in the game.

I'm stoked that my local WoO track -- Weedsport, about 20 minutes from my house -- is in the game. I would love to have Huset's, but no biggie.

Otherwise, I'm quite content with the selection of real and fictional ovals. At least I haven't seen any fantasy dirt road courses. Sprint cars turning right are perhaps the biggest heresy in global motorsport.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by fletcher21 »

I also believe I have read that some of the fictional tracks might be based on real tracks, but the developer doesn't have the right to use them. Kind of like how GT had cote de azur that was basically Monaco, without being Monaco.

The track selection is excellent! It's amazing how different each track can be, when you consider you're just turning left the whole time

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by fletcher21 »

Has anyone been to a real WoO race? There's a track way up north from me called Jackson. Looks pretty cool

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

fletcher21 wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:29 am
Has anyone been to a real WoO race? There's a track way up north from me called Jackson. Looks pretty cool
Not only been to one--shared the track with them decades ago. In the 80s when the Outlaws came to Santa Maria Speedway, my family was running a little POS sprint car. Total "family car". Bungie cords, duct tape, and sh*t barely held together. My entire racing history is in sprint cars.

At Santa Maria, we somehow ended up pitting RIGHT BETWEEN Steve Kinser and Sammy Swindell...that's basically like somehow ending up with a locker right between Joe Montana and Tom Brady or something in NFL terms. Kinser was giving my dad tire tips on how to cut the tread grooves differently for the track conditions. Coolest, most down-to-Earth guys, but my God those cars were so much faster than our little 350 Bandit Sprint!!!!

Outlaws just have to be seen to be believed. It felt fast enough out on track in a slower car--already visceral and dangerous, but the speed the Outlaws carried was mind-boggling, even for a kid.

If you have a chance, for SURE go...

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