Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by F308GTB »

Smoking PC deal on racing games at Humble Bundle

https://www.humblebundle.com/games/ulti ... dium=email

$13 which includes ACC, rF2, 3 months if iRacing and Automobilista 2.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

Played my Masters difficulty round late this morning and it went about like I expected. I shot a 73 on the par 71 course, which was one stroke higher than Db and 10spro's 72s. I saw Danimal at 77 after I finished my round. I somehow managed to hit 71% FIRs, but all but one of my fairway misses were way off target. I hit 62% GIRs, which also surprised me, but once again, those that missed were mostly way off target. I missed one green by over 50 yards to the right!?

When it was over, I'd hit so many bad shots that I couldn't believe I was able to put together a 73... it felt more like a 79 or 80. I did manage an eagle and three birdies, but I more than erased them elsewhere.

This was an interesting experiment for one day, but I couldn't see myself playing this way day in and day out. It just seems to be overly punitive on shots that really weren't that far out of the perfect tempo zone.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

J_Cauthen wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:09 pm
Played my Masters difficulty round late this morning and it went about like I expected. I shot a 73 on the par 71 course, which was one stroke higher than Db and 10spro's 72s. I saw Danimal at 77 after I finished my round. I somehow managed to hit 71% FIRs, but all but one of my fairway misses were way off target. I hit 62% GIRs, which also surprised me, but once again, those that missed were mostly way off target. I missed one green by over 50 yards to the right!?

When it was over, I'd hit so many bad shots that I couldn't believe I was able to put together a 73... it felt more like a 79 or 80. I did manage an eagle and three birdies, but I more than erased them elsewhere.

This was an interesting experiment for one day, but I couldn't see myself playing this way day in and day out. It just seems to be overly punitive on shots that really weren't that far out of the perfect tempo zone.
This has to be the wrong thread....right? :lol:

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

John, you're meant to be driving on the black ribbons, mate, not from the black tees...:

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

TCrouch wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:15 am
This has to be the wrong thread....right? :lol:
Gulp... as my grandfather would have said in his day - "this is kindly embarrassing!" :oops: :)

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

GB_Simo wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 1:00 pm
John, you're meant to be driving on the black ribbons, mate, not from the black tees...:

Image
Doh! Well, at least you guys are paying attention :D If you'd seen my last ACC GT3 Career mode race at Brands Hatch two nights ago, you'd have to ask yourself if I meant to be driving on the black ribbons there. I'll see if I can't return that out place reply to its proper thread. As embarrassing as this is, it would be forum career ending to place it in yet another wrong thread, so I'm going to take extra measures to ensure that it doesn't :?

BTW, there was some good that came out of this... that's a very nice overhead shot of the brickyard you tied in here for emphasis!

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

I'm almost more familiar with that property than my own backyard ... :)
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

pk500 wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:54 pm
I'm almost more familiar with that property than my own backyard ... :)
I'm sure you've played the Brickyard golf course a time or two in your career. How does the golf course play and how much of a hassle is it to get on and off the track infield portion of the course?

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

Digital Foundry just posted a comparison video of the Next-Gen enhanced versions of Assetto Corsa Competitzione to each other and to OG PS4 and XBox One, and XBox One X. It looks like the PS5 got a little extra benefit on both the graphics and the performance. It's an interesting piece if you'd like to check it out:

https://www.digitalfoundry.net/2022-03- ... l-analysis

I'm still thoroughly enjoying the enhance version on my Series X. It's weird but the force feedback settings are more fun to tweak on the enhanced version. I can feel the nuance of them more acutely with the 60 FPS feedback.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

J_Cauthen wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:37 am
pk500 wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:54 pm
I'm almost more familiar with that property than my own backyard ... :)
I'm sure you've played the Brickyard golf course a time or two in your career. How does the golf course play and how much of a hassle is it to get on and off the track infield portion of the course?
I'm not a golfer, John. Never have played Brickyard Crossing. Walked the back nine once while working the Senior PGA Tour event in 1999 -- that's it. Sorry.

But I know it's not a hassle at all to move from the infield section of the course to the outside. There's a tunnel under the backstretch between the two sections of the course.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

pk500 wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:17 pm
J_Cauthen wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:37 am
pk500 wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:54 pm
I'm almost more familiar with that property than my own backyard ... :)
I'm sure you've played the Brickyard golf course a time or two in your career. How does the golf course play and how much of a hassle is it to get on and off the track infield portion of the course?
I'm not a golfer, John. Never have played Brickyard Crossing. Walked the back nine once while working the Senior PGA Tour event in 1999 -- that's it. Sorry.

But I know it's not a hassle at all to move from the infield section of the course to the outside. There's a tunnel under the backstretch between the two sections of the course.
So it's a tunnel? I don't know why that never dawned on me before... well that's one of life's mysteries cleared up 8)

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

J_Cauthen wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:23 pm
So it's a tunnel? I don't know why that never dawned on me before... well that's one of life's mysteries cleared up 8)
Yep, small tunnel.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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J_Cauthen wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:44 am
Digital Foundry just posted a comparison video of the Next-Gen enhanced versions of Assetto Corsa Competitzione to each other and to OG PS4 and XBox One, and XBox One X. It looks like the PS5 got a little extra benefit on both the graphics and the performance. It's an interesting piece if you'd like to check it out:

https://www.digitalfoundry.net/2022-03- ... l-analysis

I'm still thoroughly enjoying the enhance version on my Series X. It's weird but the force feedback settings are more fun to tweak on the enhanced version. I can feel the nuance of them more acutely with the 60 FPS feedback.
I keep debating on whether to pick this up or not. I have it on PC but barely played it. I have so much time and energy (not to mention gear and $$$) wrapped up in my PC setup for iRacing that I know I'd be playing on a **gasp** controller for an XBox racing game.

You guys make it sound too good to pass on, though, and thanks for that video. I was curious what the differences would really be on the Series X.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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TCrouch wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:05 am

I keep debating on whether to pick this up or not. I have it on PC but barely played it. I have so much time and energy (not to mention gear and $$$) wrapped up in my PC setup for iRacing that I know I'd be playing on a **gasp** controller for an XBox racing game.

You guys make it sound too good to pass on, though, and thanks for that video. I was curious what the differences would really be on the Series X.
Don't have any console past PS3 or XB1. Would not even consider buying one to play ACC, particularly if I had the hardware infrastructure (wheel, pedals) on the PC. From my understanding the release last month merely brings ACC on the consoles inline with PC performance and capabilities. The last 2 months we have been out of the house for renovations, I have my PC but no wheel. I have tried to play ACC with my XB1 controller and I just get a dead feeling, Can't wait to move back this week or next and get a proper setup again where I can feel the subtleties the ACC FFB provides through the wheel.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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Yeah, that's been my fear for some time now. My PC setup is...well, it's something else.

I've got triple 50" 4K 120Hz displays on it so everything around me is basically where it would be in a full sized car (rear view mirror is where it would be, passenger mirror, etc.). Pictures never do scale justice, but:

Image

So the thought of trying to go back to a controller and a single screen sort of terrifies me. I'll probably give Gran Turismo 7 a spin here in the coming days, but not expecting much at all compared to what I get from iRacing almost nightly.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

My TV tray says hi. I'm not convinced I'd ever leave that seat. One day...
TCrouch wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:22 pm
So the thought of trying to go back to a controller and a single screen sort of terrifies me. I'll probably give Gran Turismo 7 a spin here in the coming days, but not expecting much at all compared to what I get from iRacing almost nightly.
Still giving GT7 regular spins here, as well as spinning regularly. I'm really enjoying it, but I really enjoy Gran Turismo and this is very Gran Turismo indeed. As a love letter to the automobile it remains as marvellous as ever. As a driving simulator, it shares a number of traits with GT Sport but there are noticeable improvements - the way cars break traction now, especially high-powered road cars, feels entirely natural and the DualSense feedback is terrific. The weather effects and mid-race changes seem great too, from what little I've seen of them.

As a racing sim, though...well, that's different. I've only played through some of the single-player career stuff - no multiplayer, no custom races - and every event I've done has been a rolling start from the back of the field. With short race lengths, the AI has to circulate at a slower pace than you, otherwise you've no chance of achieving the goals. They are at least smarter, giving each other a decent race while generally respecting your existence, but in the bulk of the events, they're not there to race you in the conventional sense.

We'll see if that changes once the Sophy AI goes live. The game is clearly set up for it, ranking difficulty using peppers much like a restaurant would indicate heat levels, with the current hardest AI being one pepper short of the top of the scale. (Sentences I Never Thought I'd Write In This Thread: #1 in an occasional series.) For now, though, it's Gran Turismo. I am fine with that. Your mileage may vary.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Rodster »

I don't think Terry has either a PS5 or GT7 because I would love to get his opinion. I've been playing GT7 since launch and I have got to say it is by far the BEST racing AI I have seen in any racing game, console or PC. I know I might get some blowback but Forza's Drivatar isn't even this good.

When you get to race the proper race cars GT3's the AI is ungodly good and realistic. I can typically beat most racing AI because they usually follow a script and one of the many scripts is braking too much into the apex which leads to an easy overtake and within a couple of laps i'm usually at the front.

In GT7 the AI is so good that when set to HARD difficulty I was lucky to climb 2 spots. In most cases I lost some positions. I went to NORMAL and I was able to move a few further spots up the grid. On EASY, I have not reached higher than 2nd. There's no rubber band AI used in GT7. They will blow your doors off if you are not pushing.

I have passed a car only for that car to pass me again because I screwed up my entry point into the corner. I have also been passed on the outside. I have raced 3 wide only to find a car slip under me for a position. The AI is fair but relentless, they keep the pressure on and they wait for you to screw up before they pounce. They actually race each other. They will attempt and execute legit passes either on the inside or outside. I have also seen them screwup an entry point but I have not once gotten the "chrome horn" treatment as in previous versions of the game. You will get nudged as to be expected because that's racing. If I compare GT7's AI to the likes of Forza, AC, ACC, Project Cars, GT7's AI is the clear winner.

And the best part is, this isn't even Sony's Sophy AI which supposedly is even more realistic and humanlike than the current AI. I'm not trying to throw shade on Forza or the other racing games but I have yet to have this much fun, intense fun, racing against AI cars as in GT7.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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Rodster wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:35 pm
I don't think Terry has either a PS5 or GT7 because I would love to get his opinion. I've been playing GT7 since launch and I have got to say it is by far the BEST racing AI I have seen in any racing game, console or PC. I know I might get some blowback but Forza's Drivatar isn't even this good.
I have both the PS5 and GT7, but other than the controller providing amazingly good feedback on triggers...the first day experience put me off so much that I haven't been back.

I literally happened to get it the same day they had their "more than 24 hour downtime"--so I bought this game, was excited to try it, and then couldn't even play it for over a day because of their ridiculous server crap. Then, when investigating that, I saw all of the crazy complaints about the grind-y nature of credits, and how they were screwing over fans, and didn't give it another try. Literally a "first impression was so bad, it made me not give a s***" scenario.

I did see later that they patched in more credits, and I got some million-something just for logging in, but honestly, the initial vibe I got from it was so negative that it's tough to WANT to go back to it. Plus that Sophy or whatever AI system isn't even there...last I checked. So my plan is to go back to it when that's in, and I can give it a decent whirl.

I will say those triggers were amazing. The fact that it had force effects to adequately relay trail braking percentages was amazing. Still very tough for me to go from a big sim rig down to a controller, but if the racing is good, I'd do it. Just got so pissed off at the game and then the 20-minute-long mandatory-UI-familiarization-tutorial when I finally got in that I just stuck to iRacing for my racing fix.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

Terry, they've taken a fair number of steps to try to address the grinding concerns (you get 6 million credits for achieving all Gold on the Circuit Experience at the Nordschleife, for example), but waiting for the Sophy AI feels like the way to go.

I'm hoping there are races later on where I'll need to qualify, rather than starting last for a rolling start and having x laps to come through and win. I don't think I'm as far into the game as Rod is - I'm still being tasked with collecting road cars (Supras at the moment) and not with racing GT3s - but every race I've done to this point has been of the "starting last, please win" variety. When that's the setup, the AI can't race you all that well because if it does, you'll literally never win.

With that in mind, it doesn't race me all that well. I do believe it can, mind you - there are instances where you get glimpses of it hanging on side-by-side through a chicane, or looking for a way to cut back underneath you while you're completing a pass - but it has to fulfil the ultimate goal of giving you a chance. It'll do that by jabbing the brakes in the strangest places, like corner exits, and occasionally spending periods wombling around in the middle of the road where you'd think it would take the racing line. The goal in every race so far is a top-3 finish and I generally need to do something catastrophic to miss that goal on Hard, so unless you'd like to get some of the early game out of the way without breaking even the lightest of sweats, you may as well hold fire for Sophy.

None of which, Rod, invalidates your experience one tiny bit. It's yours, you're having it and I'm delighted you're enjoying it. Very much hoping there are races and modes later on which might unlock that kind of AI for me too.


Elsewhere, the dedicated BTCC game may have bitten the dust but for just over half the price of a triple-A game, you can now add 2 cars and 2 tracks from the series to rFactor 2. I won't, but you can.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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That's all I saw from the limited time I played it--the controls were cool, but the AI was just stabbing the brake mid-corner, I was tasked with coming last-to-first driving a sh*tbucket of a car. Not really my type of game, and what I saw was a lot of the same linear, follow-the-leader processions when cars got close.

I haven't played it more than an hour or so when I finally got in, so I can't dispute anybody's impressions of the game. I just know I can either go spend hours practicing for the next league race in iRacing, or mess around in GT7. And when I'm on my PS5, I have played just about every other game first before looking at GT.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by fletcher21 »

Any console rubes enjoying ACC?

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

fletcher21 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:32 pm
Any console rubes enjoying ACC?
Enjoying is an understatement. It's perhaps the best console racing sim I've played.

Forza Motorsport 7 is a much more complete experience, and Isle of Man TT 2 always will challenge and thrill me to no end. But for driving model and racing AI, ACC is damn tough to top.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by fletcher21 »

pk500 wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:06 pm
fletcher21 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:32 pm
Any console rubes enjoying ACC?
Enjoying is an understatement. It's perhaps the best console racing sim I've played.

Forza Motorsport 7 is a much more complete experience, and Isle of Man TT 2 always will challenge and thrill me to no end. But for driving model and racing AI, ACC is damn tough to top.
Agreed! Graphics aren’t great, but it’s the best Ai I have ever seen. I haven’t had this much fun racing the Ai since way back in the WoO days on ps1 or ps2. There is a PC update coming soon, which will filter down to consoles.

1. COTA
2. Watkins Glen
3. Indy Road Course

This game is awesome, but a lot of patience is required. It really showed me some amazing tracks I hadn’t played before. Zolder and Oulton Park are my favorites.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

NASCAR 21: Ignition got its next-gen console upgrade today. After about an hour with it I can say that it feels and looks better than what we had before. The textures are richer and the 60 FPS animation affords a level of control response that wasn't there before. They didn't add a rear view mirror, which is a major disappointment.

I was hoping for some steering wheel tuning options to be added, but alas there are none. I have to vary the sensitivity of the wheel to various tracks using my Thrustmaster TX's built in steering range options: 540 Deg for road courses, 900 Deg for ovals. The default force feedback effects fortunately feel pretty natural, although I'd like to tweak the centering forces a bit. I also lost all force feedback when I switched went from an oval to a road course. I had to reboot the steering wheel and restart the game to get the feedback restored, but it came back beautifully.

I feel like I've got a game that I want to experiment with now in season mode. I was running competitively with the AI's in Veteran AI setting, whereas before I had to run in Rookie to have a change. I'm curious now to see how this developes.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by fletcher21 »

GT7 isn’t a sim, but they just released Watkins Glen via an update. No leaks about it, so it’s pretty surprising. It’s not my favorite US road course (Road America) but it’s definitely a legendary track.

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