Bonds - tell me something I don't know

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:21 pm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/b ... ml?cnn=yes

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:33 pm

Wow -- you could have knocked me over with a feather with those allegations.

Still, baseball's reaction will be interesting. My prediction is a shrug of the shoulders for Selig and a claim that baseball's drug policy is strict and working, as judged by the few players who have been caught in the last year.

Let's face it: Baseball is turning a blind eye to its drug problem because steroids create more homers, which create more "SportsCenter" highlights and put more butts in seats. Baseball was saved by a home run derby between two juicers in 1998, and Bonds' herculean feats at the plate -- bolstered by juice, of course -- also have gained the sport a ton of attention.

So as long as someone's limbs aren't ripped from their torso on the playing field due to steroid abuse, I don't think Selig and the owners care one bit about steroids. I think they're taking the Chico Esquela approach to drugs in baseball: "Steroids av been berry, berry good for de bottom line of beisbol."

Take care,
PK

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:34 pm

and he dated eddie murphy back in 82

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:40 pm

pk500 wrote:So as long as someone's limbs aren't ripped from their torso on the playing field due to steroid abuse

LOL

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:53 pm

Selig does not care about baseball, all he cares about is $$$$$.

Bartlett Giamatti is rolling over in his grave.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:08 pm

Will Bonds last the season? My guess is that he won't.

Will Giants fan continue to root for him? What will the reaction be if he breaks the record?

As an avid Cardinals fan, I feel embarrassed that I couldn't see through the spectactle of the magical McGwire and Sosa season. If McGwire was still playing, there's no way in hell I could ever root for him again. Sosa retired at the right time IMO.

The homerun records of the past 8 years should be erased from the books.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:10 pm

Will Bonds last the season? My guess is that he won't.

After reading the article, I am shocked he is still alive after all the stuff he has put into his body.

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:36 pm

bdunn13 wrote:
Will Bonds last the season? My guess is that he won't.
After reading the article, I am shocked he is still alive after all the stuff he has put into his body.

no kidding.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:41 pm

If the major news networks run this tonight, he's done. So far this is on all the news sites so I can't imagine it wouldn't be on tonight.

I don't see how baseball doesn't do soemthing. And I don't see how Bond recovers from this.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:48 pm

sportdan30 wrote: What will the reaction be if he breaks the record?

Any records he breaks from now on (Ruth's or Aaron's) better be at home. At least in SF he has a chance of getting a somewhat warm reception.

If he should break a record on the road, the fan reaction could wind up being another black eye for baseball, on top of an even bigger black eye, him breaking the record in the first place.

What a mess.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:00 pm

To quote Malcolm The chickens have come home to roost.

Of course these are only allegations but almost none of the big time home run hitters of the era outside of a handful really deserve any benefit of the doubt.

Baseball turned a blind eye and they paid a price. Then again with spitballs, blacksox, etc it's not like the first time something shady has happened in the game.

I'm against any attempts to put asteriks or some such notes in the record book but I stopped being a major baseball fan over 10 years ago so its not exactly a passionate issue with me.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:10 pm

What about all the rampant steroid use of the 70s and 80s in pro football. Jim Haslett, the new D coordinator of the Rams openly came out a while ago stating that he and several of the Steeler players were on roids. I'm sure many former football players of that era are now hall of famers.

so, it's not just Barry.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:13 pm

Bonds need to step away quietly. NOW. Anyone who follows sports in general knows what he was doing. Your melon and forearms do NOT grow in size like his did in that short of time. Having competed against athletes who used steroids in Track and Field, I have seen virtually everything you can imagine. The details about Bonds' usage, while startling for a baseball player, is nothing compared to some of the regimens I have witnessed others participating in.

Steroids are a filthy business and taint virtually every physically demanding sport in some way. The biggest problem with steroids other than the lack of education and lackluster enforcement is the fact that the people designing steroids are always one step ahead of the enforcement agencies and testing labs. By the time they figure out how to detect the latest steroid, athletes are on to the next as yet to be detected steroid. Unless the enforcement agencies and testing labs can get in front of the steroid designers, this problem will not be going away any time soon.

AJColossal · Post by **AJColossal** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:22 pm

sportdan30 wrote:What about all the rampant steroid use of the 70s and 80s in pro football. Jim Haslett, the new D coordinator of the Rams openly came out a while ago stating that he and several of the Steeler players were on roids. I'm sure many former football players of that era are now hall of famers.

so, it's not just Barry.

Thank you.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:32 pm

sportdan30 wrote:What about all the rampant steroid use of the 70s and 80s in pro football. Jim Haslett, the new D coordinator of the Rams openly came out a while ago stating that he and several of the Steeler players were on roids. I'm sure many former football players of that era are now hall of famers.

so, it's not just Barry.

I don't think that anyone doubts it's just Barry. I've always felt football is probably a far worse abuser because of the very physical nature of the sport. Even in Baseball we all suspected McGwire and the rest were doing it. (At least some of us did)

The problem is that he was the only one good enough to challenge baseball's sacred cow of a homerun record.

A perverse part of me can't wait for him to break the record. Hell I hope he hits 800. Just to sort of show what happens when the bottom line is your only bottom line.

In a bizzare way I don't blame him either or more accurately I at least understand his motivation to continue playing. If the sport itself is dirty then why should he be clean. I don't agree with the steroids but then baseball didn't have a problem with it until they got their nuts put on the fire.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:32 pm

sportdan30 wrote:What about all the rampant steroid use of the 70s and 80s in pro football. Jim Haslett, the new D coordinator of the Rams openly came out a while ago stating that he and several of the Steeler players were on roids. I'm sure many former football players of that era are now hall of famers.

so, it's not just Barry.

Sorry, but I'm not buying the comparison between offensive and defensive linemen and a guy on the precipice of breaking one of the most hallowed records in American sport.

With all due respect to late stars like Mike Webster and Lyle Alzado, they're not on Bonds' level of fame, accomplishment and legend.

Bonds using the juice while chasing Ruth and Aaron is on an entirely different level than John Matuszak sacking a QB while juiced up. Now, if we learned that Montana, Marino, Elway, Sanders or Emmitt Smith were on the juice while rewriting the record books, then you'd have a comparison to Barry.

Take care,
PK

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:36 pm

sportdan30 wrote:What about all the rampant steroid use of the 70s and 80s in pro football. Jim Haslett, the new D coordinator of the Rams openly came out a while ago stating that he and several of the Steeler players were on roids. I'm sure many former football players of that era are now hall of famers.

so, it's not just Barry.

Haslett said that 50% of NFL players and all the lineman took steroids before they were banned in the 1980s. I think Steve Courson admitted to using steriods 10 years ago and everyone yawned.

edit: I'll just stop there...just saw PK beat me to it.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:46 pm

JRod wrote:If the major news networks run this tonight, he's done. So far this is on all the news sites so I can't imagine it wouldn't be on tonight.

Well, you can count on the story being on NBC Nightly News tonight:

http://dailynightly.msnbc.com/2006/03/a ... t_far.html

Take care,
PK

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:56 pm

Here is a link to part of the Bonds excerpts and why steroid detection has always run behind the athletes and drug designers...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2358236

According to the excerpt, Anderson told an acquaintance who was wearing a wire in 2003 that: "The whole thing is, everything I've been doing, it's all undetectable. The stuff I have, we created it. You can't buy it anywhere else; you can't get it anywhere else. You can take [it] the day of [a drug test], pee, and it comes up clear.

"See, like Marion Jones and them -- it's the same stuff they went to the Olympics with and they test them every f------ week. So that's why I know it works, so that's why I know we're not in trouble. So that's cool."

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:57 pm

Take steroids get cancer.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:08 pm

reeche wrote: The problem is that he was the only one good enough to challenge baseball's sacred cow of a homerun record.

Maybe this should tell us how damn good Aaron, Ruth, Mays and Maris really were.

reeche wrote:A perverse part of me can't wait for him to break the record. Hell I hope he hits 800. Just to sort of show what happens when the bottom line is your only bottom line.

If he does manage to break the record, I will be forever pissed off at Baseball. I think most baseball fans will agree. It is no secret that he cheated. Today's revelations only confirm what most of us already knew. Bonds needs to go away, but something tells me he is only concerned about himself, not the game which is FAR bigger and better than he ever was. While I agree with your "bottom line" assertion, Bonds breaking the record would do even more harm to the validity of the record books (the recent past mainly).

reeche wrote:In a bizzare way I don't blame him either or more accurately I at least understand his motivation to continue playing. If the sport itself is dirty then why should he be clean. I don't agree with the steroids but then baseball didn't have a problem with it until they got their nuts put on the fire.

How can you NOT blame someone who is KNOWINGLY cheating? Justifying his being dirty because the sport is dirty? Sorry, but 2 wrongs do NOT make a right. And I don't just blame Bonds. I blame all of the athletes who have taken them. They KNEW what they were doing. Lets not even think about letting them off the hook for ANY reason. I also blame baseball for turning the other way. Like you said, it was all about business and money. Too bad that a scandal like this has to tarnish an entire generation of players and accomplishments.

NoJoke · Post by **NoJoke** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:18 pm

Beyond cheating, which may really be all that matters, steroids are ILLEGAL. Don't tell me about the fact that they were not banned or tested for in baseball. Baseball does not need special rules banning something that is illegal for everyone else in country to use. Forget kicking him out of baseball, I say throw all steroid users in jail.

Is murder or kidnapping okay for baseball players because it is not specifically banned by the collective bargaining agreement? Slight oversimplification, I know, but still a relevant question. Gimme a break.

Joe

mobiggins · Post by **mobiggins** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:33 pm

I don't follow baseball, but besides the 'roid allegations, could someone give me a heads-up on why Bonds is considered such a "mysanthropic" asshole by many? What's he done to piss people off?

Programmed2Kill · Post by **Programmed2Kill** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:42 pm

NoJoke wrote:Beyond cheating, which may really be all that matters, steroids are ILLEGAL. Don't tell me about the fact that they were not banned or tested for in baseball. Baseball does not need special rules banning something that is illegal for everyone else in country to use. Forget kicking him out of baseball, I say throw all steroid users in jail.

Is murder or kidnapping okay for baseball players because it is not specifically banned by the collective bargaining agreement? Slight oversimplification, I know, but still a relevant question. Gimme a break.

Joe

Throw steroid users in jail? Comparing them to those that kill and kidnap? C'mon now.

Honestly, I could give a crap about all of this. Barry Bonds doesn't make me pissed off or mad at him. I think alot of people are getting on his case because he's a jerk and just want to get in their shots. If that makes you feel better, so be it.

But everyone should step back and look at who is really to blame and that is baseball. Just because Bonds is getting the heat because of who he is, how he is and what he may accomplish doesn't mean he should be made out the main problem for all of this. Baseball should've done something about this a long time ago. This is sad and sorry and for all of baseball to turn a blind eye to the situation is embarassing.

I'm not saying Bonds shouldn't get called on the carpet for this. He definitely should. But there are many more players out there that are doing the exact same thing. Who he is shouldn't matter and to those who do so are just taking away blame from the real culprit, which is baseball. There have been many players before Bonds doing this stuff and guess what...there will be plenty more doing the same thing after he retires. And that's the real shame of all of this. Nobody will know who is really doing anything except for the "known" players. Plus, you can't tell just by looking at them. That has been made clear now.

So, after Barry is gone and after everyone has trashed him, this will continue to be an issue in baseball and in all sports.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:14 pm

mobiggins wrote:I don't follow baseball, but besides the 'roid allegations, could someone give me a heads-up on why Bonds is considered such a "mysanthropic" asshole by many? What's he done to piss people off?

Hmmmm....cheat on his wife, cheat on his taxes, cheat in the game of baseball (and lie about it)...notice a pattern?