Soccer thread 07/08

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:38 pm

RobVarak wrote: Kuyt for MOTM? Now I've seen everything!

He puts headless chickens to shame! Well done Dirk!

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:14 am

Macca00 wrote:
RobVarak wrote: Kuyt for MOTM? Now I've seen everything!

He puts headless chickens to shame! Well done Dirk!

At least when the headless chicken is done there is an end result.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:24 am

Just finished watching Arsenal vs. Liverpool 1-1 - some thoughts;

i)Crouch was fantastic and that goal was great; goal kick by Pepe, "Hooffff" by the Arsenal fans (somehow forgotten about 10 years under George Graham and 'one nil to the arsenal') and just as their hoof trails off Crouch thumps it in from 20 yards. They went quiet then.

ii)Damien Plessis was very, very impressive. Rob - we were talking about Xabi mailing it in in the CL - this lad looks the business. Played the Mascherano role and was great, good positioning, good tackling, hard to judge his distribution cause he'd make a tackle and then make the simple 5-10 yard pass. He's like Sissoko but....with a brain. Doug b's favourite player Lucas also played well. Riise is little more than a squad player now, he was poor again.

iii)We could/should have won - Voronin with 2 bad misses at the end, one where he rounded the keeper and then took a heavy touch and finally finished it off with a marvelous air kick.

iv)If we apply the English media's Liverpool template to Arsenal we can conclude the following;

- Wenger ROTATED his squad and that's why they lost, he shouldn't have tinkered, he's obsessed with tinkering, he should just play the same 11 every week for 9 months
- He clearly cares more about the Champions League than the EPL

v)Much like the empty seats at Stamford Bridge when Chelsea played Middlesboro, I have no idea why so many Arsenal fans left the match with just a few minutes left - these are teams challenging for the bloody title, you'd think their fans would be more into it. I don't get it.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:05 pm

Macca,

I had exactly the same impressions of Plessis. Pacey, aggressive and tactically aware in a way that Momo never was. How daunting is it for a holding midfielder to make his debut away at Arsenal against a team with such speed and passing ability?

Agree we would have won if Voronin hadn't played like a man who was reacquainting himself with the physics of walking upright. My God, what was he doing when he fell over the touch line? Compare that to the ridiculous pass by the rubber-legged Adebayor LOL

The last 20 minutes of that match were absolutely pulsating. I can't fathom how anyone would leave early given the stakes.

Crouch was quality before he ran out of gas. I give him lots of credit for being a pro throughout the last two years. He could easily and justifiably be petulant, sulk in the media and shoddy when he gets his chances. Instead he's always engaging in the press, never has a bad word to say about anyone at LFC and answers the bell when called to do so.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:37 pm

Was Carragher playing right back again? I was surprised to see him their last week - I thought Arbeloa (sp?) was injured but they don't seem to have a suitable reserve at the position other than switching Carragher over. I think that Carragher actually started off as a RB before being move to central defender.

Best wishes,

Doug

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:16 pm

Rob,

Agree - must have been incredibly daunting but he looked very calm and composed.

I know MACTEP loves him (because he's Ukrainian) but Voronin makes me swear at the TV like no other Liverpool player, his off-the-ball movement is so good but it seems like every time he gets the ball he doesn't know what to do.

Do you see Lionel Richie staying with us next season?

dougb wrote:Was Carragher playing right back again? I was surprised to see him their last week - I thought Arbeloa (sp?) was injured but they don't seem to have a suitable reserve at the position other than switching Carragher over. I think that Carragher actually started off as a RB before being move to central defender.

Best wishes,

Doug

Hey doug,

Carra started off as a defensive midfielder, then Houllier played him at LEFT back for a number of seasons (alternating sometimes at right back once Markus Babbel came down with GBS) - it was only once Rafa arrived that he moved to the middle.

With Finnan's drop in form and Arebloa being solid but not great I think it's a decent choice to put Carra in at RB since Hyypia and Skrtel are playing well - it certainly gives us greater strength defensively. Lots of rumours that we're going to sign Schalke's Rafinha in the off-season at RB - I think he'd be a good signing from what I've seen of him on FSW.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:51 pm

Macca,

Thanks for the correction on Carragher and Finnan. Carragher seems like one of those players whose play remains excellent no matter where you stick him - a real first class professional.

Skrtel has also really impressed me with his play - terrific pickup by Rafa. Voronin may really be suffering from a lack of 1st team action - good movement off the ball but a lead foot once he gets it. I wasn't convinced he was that great a signing to begin with anyway.

Certainly a draw at Emirates is a terrific result given the understrength team and the quality of the opposition. To do it twice in a week is an even more impressive achievement. Holy crap that game at Anfield is going to be absolutely huge for both teams.

Best wishes,

Doug

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:23 pm

Rafa goes with Crouch in lieu of Babel. Interesting. Curious to see how he is going to arrange the team for this one.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:56 pm

Happy Dance Time!!!

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:16 pm

Came back from the Pub (Scallywags - the home of the Toronto branch of the official LFC supporters club)....

.......apesh!t does not even begin to describe it. The difference in emotions between Adabayor's goal and the penalty decision in the place was incredible.

"HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFF"

What's that sound? Is it the sound of Liverpool kicking it long? No, it's the sound of Liverpool kicking Arsenal out of the Champions League.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:30 pm

Macca00 wrote:Came back from the Pub (Scallywags - the home of the Toronto branch of the official LFC supporters club)....

.......apesh!t does not even begin to describe it. The difference in emotions between Adabayor's goal and the penalty decision in the place was incredible.

"HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFF"

What's that sound? Is it the sound of Liverpool kicking it long? No, it's the sound of Liverpool kicking Arsenal out of the Champions League.

And me at work hitting the refresh button on the guardian unlimited match commentary about a million times!

Best wishes,

Doug

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:02 pm

Babel was outstanding when he came on, Crouch was a shadow of his Sunday performance, err Torres not a bad goal that, was it a pen ? id say at full speed yes, in slow mo, i thought it was a bit harsh but yes what a roller coaster of emotions.

Great game.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:14 pm

Jimmy, I agree about the penalty. It was the opposite of the Kuyt situation from last week, which looked like nothing in real time but a clear penalty in slow-mo.

I thought Crouch was useful. He was a fine target man and tracked back with vigor. The entire game was a clinic on how to defend from the front.

Full credit to Rafa for getting the team and tactics right in all three games against the Arse. For the entire duration of the games I kept saying that at some point Torres was going to end up in position to de-pants Senderos. It took longer than I thought, but it was worth the wait.

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:15 am

Never mind Torres how about hyypia undressing him, oh to be a defender in the prem, poor lad.

MACTEPsporta · Post by **MACTEPsporta** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:57 pm

I may be slow, but I found you talking s*** about my boy. Better late than never. It may be a few days late, but HEY!!!, give Voronin a break. The man hasn't seen the ball for months. Plus, they got him for free, so relax.

Good match, though. It was as even as any of the other two, even though the score doesn't reflect that. And please, don't tell me Benitez won the tactical match-up with Wenger. He didn't. Babel should've started and unless he paid off the referee to call that pen, he has done nothing to earn the win. I am not saying LFC didn't deserve to win, I am just saying he is not the one who should be thanked for it.

You know what I couldn't help but think for the duration of the match? Why is Diaby not a forward. I mean seriously. Big, fast, great with the ball and has the softest touch I have seen in a while. Is his finishing that bad? I mean, how much more sense would it be to have him play upfront with Adebayor and have Hleb on the wing. Or better yet play a 4-3-3 with Walcott and Hleb on the wings, and have Diaby just behind them.

Back to Liverpool. After careful review and multiple slow motion replays I have noticed this. If Hyypia and Kuyt exchange shirts in the dressing room NOBODY will notice. In fact, I think that's what happens what Kuyt scores occasionally. I think it's time Rafa realized he has overpayed for a very energetic and enthusiastic defender. Because he is sure as hell no forward. Oh well, s*** happens. Stick him in the back line and make your team better.

P.S. That penalty should have been a free kick 5 yards outside the box.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:29 pm

MACTEPsporta wrote:Babel should've started

Crouch's flicked on header got the ball to Torres for his goal.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:41 pm

MACTEPsporta wrote:And please, don't tell me Benitez won the tactical match-up with Wenger. He didn't.

Benitez' team;

WON the game
OUTSHOT the opposition
Had MORE possession
Had MORE corners
Had LESS offsides

How did he not win the tactical match up? By 'tactical match up' do you mean 'who looks less fat'?

EDIT (again): On further inspection of the game stats I see Liverpool had more fouls.....Wenger wins.

MACTEPsporta · Post by **MACTEPsporta** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:45 pm

Macca00 wrote:
MACTEPsporta wrote:Babel should've started
Crouch's flicked on header got the ball to Torres for his goal.

Yeah, but Torres had it all to do, I don't consider that one play reason enough to bench Babel. Plus Torres is more productive when he is the only target man. All that aside, I never said Babel should've started in place of Crouch. He just needed to start. Whether it's Crouch, Kuyt, or Alonso that's sacrificed is irrelevant.

MACTEPsporta · Post by **MACTEPsporta** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:02 pm

Macca00 wrote:
MACTEPsporta wrote:And please, don't tell me Benitez won the tactical match-up with Wenger. He didn't.
Benitez' team;

WON the game
OUTSHOT the opposition
Had MORE possession
Had MORE corners
Had LESS offsides

How did he not win the tactical match up? By 'tactical match up' do you mean 'who looks less fat'?

EDIT (again): On further inspection of the game stats I see Liverpool had more fouls.....Wenger wins.

Easy now. The players won the match. With some luck. The only positive move Benitez has made was to let Babel out of his cage. But as I have said before - he should've started, so I refuse to give him credit for this win. It was an even match, not dominated by either team. Keep in mind LFC were playing at home. It was a defensive blunder off the set pice that produced Hyypia's goal, and individual brilliance that produced the second. Third and decisive on was luck. So, unless Benitez had his lucky underwear on, he gets no credit for that either

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:10 pm

MACTEPsporta wrote:So, unless Benitez had his lucky underwear on, he gets no credit for that either

Damnit - as I was reading your response that was going to be my reply! Crap, beat me to it.

Using your criteria a coach can only get credit for a win if the goals come through teamwork in an away match where no player exhibits individual brilliance during any of the goals and no defensive mistakes are made. Man, you are HARSH! lol

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:19 am

Babel's been rubbish for the last several games, IMO. Pace with nothing on the end of it, and none of the creativity he flashed earlier in the season. Whether it's just a bad run of form or fatigue I don't know, but some part of it is clearly from the oppositions identifying that he's a one-trick pony at this stage: Beat his man on the wing with pace, drag the ball inside for a high angle right-footed shot, or be kept outside for an ineffectual cross.

Crouch was dangerous in the game on the weekend, did a nice job tracking back to help defend (esp. important against Arsenal) and did help create the Torres goal.

I think Babel on the wing is an idea well past the sell-by date. He'll be used as an outright striker or behind the striker next season.

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:13 am

RobVarak wrote:Babel's been rubbish for the last several games, IMO. Pace with nothing on the end of it, and none of the creativity he flashed earlier in the season. Whether it's just a bad run of form or fatigue I don't know, but some part of it is clearly from the oppositions identifying that he's a one-trick pony at this stage: Beat his man on the wing with pace, drag the ball inside for a high angle right-footed shot, or be kept outside for an ineffectual cross.

Crouch was dangerous in the game on the weekend, did a nice job tracking back to help defend (esp. important against Arsenal) and did help create the Torres goal.

I think Babel on the wing is an idea well past the sell-by date. He'll be used as an outright striker or behind the striker next season.

Totaly agree with that Rob and is why i was impressed by Babel's performance when he came on, and Crouch's performance at the weekend warrented him to start on Tuesday nothing to do with tactics at that point just rewarding a player in form.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:06 am

Good to see the little English teams serve as a decent undercard to the Bayern-Getafe matchup today.

MACTEPsporta · Post by **MACTEPsporta** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:26 am

Macca00 wrote: Using your criteria a coach can only get credit for a win if the goals come through teamwork in an away match where no player exhibits individual brilliance during any of the goals and no defensive mistakes are made. Man, you are HARSH! lol

Well, not exactly, but a coach MUST do something to tilt posession in his team's favour, take best player(s) on the other team out of the game, dominate midfield, etc... There is more, but you get the point. If Torres's goal came on the end of an attack that saw LFC string 15 passes together I would be more than happy to agree with you.

Rob, I disagree with you as well. I think Babel could be used successfully as a winger. He just can't be used in the 4-4-2, because he clearly doesn't like to track back and defend, but in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 he can be useful. And don't think I didn't understand who you were hinting at with your "one-trick pony... run down the wing, drag the ball inside for a right-footed shot" comment

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:03 am

You know why he doesnt track back to defend ? Because hes a forward.
You play too much football manager.