Winning Eleven 11/PES8 thread

[Blublub]

I've pre-ordered the PS3 version today from game.co.uk

Me too. At least I think so, as the confirmation page didn't load all the way and I haven't gotten an email.

For those needing extra controllers and can't wait for the rumble version, you might want to check Amazon as they have them for $39.95 right now.

[dougb]

Blub,

I had problems with that website as well - kept returning to the payment details page telling me that I hadn't inputted all my credit care info when I had.

Finally ordered it from the site Db recommended (I'd forgotten I already had an account set up there).

Macca,

A PS3 as well!!?? At least you weren't nuts enough to upgrade your PC for (essentially) FSX and PES like I was.

I was reading a couple of short impressions by PES champions and runners up in Europe on the winningelevenblog.com. A little concerned about the reported speed of the final version but we'll see shortly.

Best wishes,

Doug

[Blublub]

Thanks Doug, wouldn't you know I had one there too. They must've been good enough in the past that I just forgot about them.

[Macca00]

Macca,

A PS3 as well!!??

Have you been talking to my missus?

[Macca00]

FYI the PES 2008 demo is up on the North American marketplace, it seems to be the same build as the European demo (i.e. not the most recent) and still runs at 100mph. After playing FIFA for so long it's hilariously fast.

[GB_Simo]

To balance that IGN review, an excerpt from Play magazine's review of the PS3 version, as taken from Winning Eleven Blog:

'PES 2008 stumbles, rather than sprints onto the PS3, leaving us with the first Pro Evo game that falls short of the Fifa franchise. We expected a revolutionised football title that'd set the series back on course, but this is just shameful'.

The blog provides no further detail than that, unfortunately, but that little excerpt isn't too pretty. Somehow, somewhere on Eurogamer's forums, there are people playing what's apparently finished code and really enjoying it, but there's normally a bit more accord than this when evaluating a PES game.

[Macca00]

To balance that IGN review, an excerpt from Play magazine's review of the PS3 version, as taken from Winning Eleven Blog:

'PES 2008 stumbles, rather than sprints onto the PS3, leaving us with the first Pro Evo game that falls short of the Fifa franchise. We expected a revolutionised football title that'd set the series back on course, but this is just shameful'.

The blog provides no further detail than that, unfortunately, but that little excerpt isn't too pretty. Somehow, somewhere on Eurogamer's forums, there are people playing what's apparently finished code and really enjoying it, but there's normally a bit more accord than this when evaluating a PES game.

I agree, also from what I've read on that blog the game speed isn't any different for the final code either which is a bit troubling.......eek.......

[seanmac31]

I just don't see the 9.2 thing, not based on this demo. To the extent that the game feels better than the last version, it is more than offset by the game speed, which is simply ridiculous.

Maybe more to the point is that the game feels old. It really feels like a last-generation engine. Honestly, I'm not sure I'm going to purchase this one after the demo. (Obviously I need to put in more time with it, but my initial feeling is that I'm very underwhelmed.)

[Naples39]

FYI the PES 2008 demo is up on the North American marketplace, it seems to be the same build as the European demo (i.e. not the most recent) and still runs at 100mph. After playing FIFA for so long it's hilariously fast.

Now that bastard llama in Konami marketing is really taunting us with a demo of a game that won't be released for several months.

[Jared]

Now, what would be awesome is if the release of the North American demo means that Konami is secretly pushing up the release date to compete with FIFA and be akin to the international release schedule. If it were any other company, I would speculate that this would be the case.

But since this is Konami....I expect nothing of the sort. Hell...I wouldn't be surprised if they omitted leagues from the N. American version.

And Seanmac...the demo doesn't feel last-gen to me. It feels too fast...but it nails lots of things (player differences (both in physical and mental attributes), physical play (especially in the box), factoring body posture/speed into things like shots and passes, ball control, crossing physics, player movement, ball unpredictability, organic gameplay) that FIFA still has problems with. The "bad" thing is that WE did lots of this stuff well a while ago, so the game feels old. They do need to improve some other stuff that makes it feel last-gen (8-direction movement, relative ease of wingplay)...but I'd rather have the last gen feel with all of the things that WE excels at.

[dougb]

FYI the PES 2008 demo is up on the North American marketplace, it seems to be the same build as the European demo (i.e. not the most recent) and still runs at 100mph. After playing FIFA for so long it's hilariously fast.

Now that bastard llama in Konami marketing is really taunting us with a demo of a game that won't be released for several months.

Nah,

I think that bastard llama got promoted up to corporate vice president - but it's hard to tell since the infinite number of monkeys in the marketing department were flinging infinite amounts s*** at me while they were banging away at their infinite number of marketing proposals.

Some clever person should photoshop something like that.

And Lavan,

I snuck my xbox360 in while my wife was away at a conference in India. Box is cleverly hidden in a corner of my room behind papers, game boxes etc.

I think I got away with it!

Best wishes,

Doug

[seanmac31]

And Seanmac...the demo doesn't feel last-gen to me. It feels too fast...but it nails lots of things (player differences (both in physical and mental attributes), physical play (especially in the box), factoring body posture/speed into things like shots and passes, ball control, crossing physics, player movement, ball unpredictability, organic gameplay) that FIFA still has problems with. The "bad" thing is that WE did lots of this stuff well a while ago, so the game feels old. They do need to improve some other stuff that makes it feel last-gen (8-direction movement, relative ease of wingplay)...but I'd rather have the last gen feel with all of the things that WE excels at.

I think the best analogy would be NFL Fever if Fever had a better core. It doesn't feel like soccer per se- it feels more like playing through a highlight reel.

[Rodster]

Thanks for the tip fellas i'm downloading PES 2008 right now. JRod have you tried the demo yet?

[Zeppo]

Played the demo one quick time, a game with my beloved frogs against the Brazilians and, is there a camera choice anywhere in here? Hmm. I wants me my wide.

Anyway, I can't say I found the pace too hectic. Must be just me, or maybe expectations based on all the complaining, but it didn't seem too crazy fast to me. Of course, I've played WE07 pretty recently, so, take of it what you will.

Oh, and the blue ball being the only choice in the demo - classic Konami. That monkey s*** ends up everywhere, doesn't it!

[JRod]

Thanks for the tip fellas i'm downloading PES 2008 right now. JRod have you tried the demo yet?

It seems the same as the UK demo. Although I forgot to delete the UK demo so maybe it didn't overwrite it.

[10spro]

It doens't feel too quick gameplay wise, but for those than have played Fifa 08, it definitely gives you that impresion.

[fanatic]

I think a lot depends on how you play the game. If you've played WE non-stop for years, it's not much a problem to slow the pace down, because you aren't "feeling the pressure" as much from defenders. If you're really familiar with the controls, you know you have the extra second or so to make a decision.

[seanmac31]

I will say this- it's nice to see some fouls called. In FIFA the only way to draw a foul seems to be to use a trick move- if you don't, every tackle ends up being clean.

[Rodster]

Well I tried the demo and I don't find the gameplay too fast compared to WE7 and 8. Graphically i'm not impressed so i'll be on the lookout for the PC version instead.

[Rodster]

The more I play this demo the more impressed I am with this game. Fouls are called on both sides. I saw the CPU get a yellow card for taking a realistic dive in the box on a scoring drive and pleading with the ref to throw a card at my guys. Your AI team does what it's supposed to trying to build an attack, The CPU does what it's suppose to do in giving you room in the midfield but closing down your attack and cutting off the scoring lanes as you push the ball in their end. And what's weird is all the bitching and videos about how the game played too fast, well I don't see it. In fact it reminds me of how WE6 played speed wise.

My problem is the graphics look meh on the 360. Hopefully the PC version will kick butt graphics wise.

[dougb]

Holy crap,

Lavan is right - the game does seem even more ludicrously fast after getting used to Fifa. Hope they've tightened up the wingplay...

Best wishes,

Doug

[Rodster]

Holy crap,

Lavan is right - the game does seem even more ludicrously fast after getting used to Fifa. Hope they've tightened up the wingplay...

Best wishes,

Doug

Doug I have yet unopened my copy of FIFA and I intend to but I have not seen as of yet the ridiculous gameplay speeds everyone is talking about in PES 2008. The wingplay might be an issue though i'll give you that. It's too easy driving the ball up the pitch on the wing. Scoring is an all together different manner though for me. I need to get better at that.

I have throughly enjoyed the demo much more than the FIFA demo. My biggest praise for the game is that the AI for the most part does what it's suppose to do. Fouls are the right amount on both sides. The CPU taking dives in the box when it's a contested match.

I also like the fact the keeper's animation fits the situation. When the ball is loose just outside the box. If there is no immediate threat he just quickly goes towards the ball and picks it up. In FIFA the keeper would just dive for the ball in that situation.

OMG I just noticed something i'm slowly turning into JRod. Somebody please help me.

[RobVarak]

I saw the CPU get a yellow card for taking a realistic dive in the box on a scoring drive and pleading with the ref to throw a card at my guys.

(Edit)

My problem is the graphics look meh on the 360. Hopefully the PC version will kick butt graphics wise.

I saw a card for a dive as well, and that totally blew me away. Very cool, if it's not overdone.

Unfortunately I agree about the graphics. Very weak.

[dougb]

Holy crap,

Lavan is right - the game does seem even more ludicrously fast after getting used to Fifa. Hope they've tightened up the wingplay...

Best wishes,

Doug

Doug I have yet unopened my copy of FIFA and I intend to but I have not seen as of yet the ridiculous gameplay speeds everyone is talking about in PES 2008. The wingplay might be an issue though i'll give you that. It's too easy driving the ball up the pitch on the wing. Scoring is an all together different manner though for me. I need to get better at that.

I have throughly enjoyed the demo much more than the FIFA demo. My biggest praise for the game is that the AI for the most part does what it's suppose to do. Fouls are the right amount on both sides. The CPU taking dives in the box when it's a contested match.

I also like the fact the keeper's animation fits the situation. When the ball is loose just outside the box. If there is no immediate threat he just quickly goes towards the ball and picks it up. In FIFA the keeper would just dive for the ball in that situation.

OMG I just noticed something i'm slowly turning into JRod. Somebody please help me.

Careful,

turning into JRod could be a terminal condition. However, we would have some pretty fantastic games if they met his expectations. I generally find his criticisms valid - difference is the impact they have on my enjoyment of the games.

Re: the speed - the times I see a problem with the speed are when there is a close in scramble for the ball. It just begins to look very unrealistic and hyperactive. I think part of it is also perceptual once you play quite a few Fifa games - the difference is the speed between the two is astounding.

The running speed of players in Fifa is appears to be too slow, the build up of play is just about right. This year's PES demo appears to have unrealistic player speed, build up of play can be right depending on how the user plays the game. One fix I've discussed with Macca would be to increase the impact of fatigue in winning eleven - so that players can't simply race up and down the pitch.

The problem with the wingplay is really mostly centred on the fact that the side back and wide midfielder BOTH charge towards the ball carrier, leaving the winger completely open. That combined with the lack of depth employed by both the defending and attacking teams as the ball is being brought out of the attacking teams end.

Best wishes,

Doug

[Jared]

There are some aspects of gameplay where FIFA doesn't hold a candle to the Winning Eleven series. However, if the demo reflects the finished product, it looks like the PES series may have taken a step back. Here are some of the problems I've had with the demo so far.

Game pace - Simply put, the game is too fast. I believe in some ways this is a feature, since increasing the number of animations per second allows the game to be more responsive. But previous versions of Winning Eleven/PES have been fine in the responsiveness department, without being this fast.

Shooting - Konami seems to have made shooting much more forgiving...to the point where it is difficult to shoot over the bar, even when holding down the shot button at full power. This does make the game easier, but it takes away the challenge of hitting the ball perfectly so that it's neither weak nor in the stands. It also leads to less variety in shot types, as nearly every shot around the halfway mark on the power bar is a worm burner along the grass. Shooting also seems much more accurate as I've observed many more shots off the inside of the post that I'm accustomed to. Even misses seem too accurate, tending to go just wide. I actually miss seeing the horrible shanks that occurred in earlier versions of Winning Eleven.

Running - When dribbling with the ball, a player runs slower than when without the ball. In past versions of Winning Eleven, this was clear, as a sprinting dribbler would often get caught in a footrace by a defender, even if the defender was a little slower. Many have complained about this, and Konami seems to have responded by increasing dribble speed. Because of this, I've been able to sprint dribble from my own half of the midfield all the way to my opponent's penalty box, with a defender always on my heels but unable to overtake me. Totally unrealistic.

Passing - Passing seems to be more accurate and quicker, and this combined with the nearly insane game speed make PES 2008 feel more arcade-like than previous versions of the game. One pass that is now deadly is the the ground cross (tap the cross button three times). This highly accurate pass often zips to an attacker, too quick and accurate to be intercepted and leading to lots of goals.

Although these are all problems (and in my opinion, steps backwards from previous versions of WE/PES), there are some things that the PES 2008 demo does much better than FIFA. A short list:

- Aerial play is more dynamic and much more realistic.
- Crosses are much better, both in pace and in unpredictability.
- Player differences are clear, and there's an actual threat when defending a world class player.
- Players make intelligent off-the-ball runs on their own.
- Defenders are more "human", making mistakes and creating realistic gaps in the defense more often.
- Ball physics.

Although the PES 2008 demo at first glance seems to be a step backwards, it's difficult to say that FIFA has caught up considering its deficiencies.