Backbreaker Preview - Natural Motion based football title

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:03 pm

Game will more likely be a tech demo than a game.

Probably no franchise, maybe not even a season mode.

Make the game editable, which is why APF failed to do. Concentrate on the AI and physics and consider selling it as a downloadable-only game for say $20.

Then do updates later for $5-10 as they refine the engine.

They have to try to build up a following over several years, which is their only chance of making EA license the tech or buy them out.

Rumor is that APF only has the Legends license for only the one game, so it seems like APF 2K8 was an all or nothing release.

I really like how they describe the blocking model they will shoot for:

euphoria in Blocks
So where else will euphoria be used in Backbreaker? euphoria will be used anywhere where a physical confrontation or interaction might occur. One key area of this type will be in blocking situations. One common problem with current next-gen football titles is the ‘suction blocking’ that frequently occurs. This happens when a player from the offensive and defensive team come into close proximity, and the defender gets ‘sucked’ into a block with the offensive player. Like a tackle animation, this is an artefact of the pre-canned blocking animation which causes the motion to be predetermined and unrealistic. In real football, the angle at which the defensive player is pursuing a ball carrier and the angle and timing at which an offensive blocker engages this defender creates a wide spectrum of block outcomes.
Like tackles, each block should be unique and authentic to the situation. More specifically, this includes the position of the players, their personal characteristics, the angle and timing in addition to the the other factors mentioned above (in calculating the dynamics of interactions in tackles). euphoria is able to calculate these factors on the fly, using those players’ behaviors to guide them, and then calculate the physics components to create an authentic blocking confrontation to the actual situation on the field. Now, blockers might completely miss or get run over by a defender, pancake or engage a defender and drive him backward or get driven back into the ball carrier themselves. They may just get a big enough piece of a defender tracking the running back to slow him down long enough for the back to get through the hole, or they might slow him down, but not enough as the defender makes a tackles while fighting past a block to plug a hole.

BTW, backbreakergame.com.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:16 pm

2k has announced there will be a 2k9. So if Legends were an all or nothing deal, why would they announce APF 2k9. Maybe there won't be legends in APF 2k9.

If it is a tech demo, then I think your idea is spot on. Give it to us for $20, with a fully customizable game. Maybe even open-source AI?

Give the community the framework for season and franchise mode. You know the community could develop certain aspects on par with professionally done development.

This company has never produced a game before and focused on real physics, I just don't see why they are making the jump to a full game. I think they just want someone to buy an engine.

Unless the CEO is a hardcore football fan and hates Madden and wants something better.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:29 pm

JRod wrote:2k has announced there will be a 2k9. So if Legends were an all or nothing deal, why would they announce APF 2k9. Maybe there won't be legends in APF 2k9.

People keeping taking that one quote or "announcement" (at least the one I saw) and our reading a lot into it IMO.

What I read was they will be selling APF again next season and that was made by a suit answering to the board in a stock holders call. Have you seen any commitment from a producer etc?

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:49 pm

Wow...been awhile since anyone posted in this thread. I don't know if this game will ever come out, but if it does, I can see myself being wowed the way I was with the original 2k videos back in the dreamcast days. For someone who's been bored to death with the incredibly stale "God-view" from Madden these past 4-5 years, this really does resemble what I thought a next generation football game might look like.

Here's a link to the latest video (dated 7/30):

http://forum.backbreakergame.com/showthread.php?t=1028

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:56 pm

Some more info posted by someone over at OS:

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3158196 - courtesy Bigdmo again

1. Euphoria engine utilizes power of CPU’s on next gen consoles. Simulates live and real time interactive characters which is perfect for football.

2. Current football games use canned animation and pretty much same thing every year with little improvements.

3. It will be a sim game, not arcade! Will be very slightly futuristic.

4. Engine runs live and simulates fully interactive tackles, body speed, velocity of limbs, personal characteristics such as strength, what your reaction times are, how muddy th
e field is. This means every contact is unique based on these factors.

5. No canned animations, gang tackling will be in the game. They want to bring the real life experience of playing defense and making big hits – no matter how many other players are involved in the tackle.

6. Videos posted on Back Breaker site were taken from next gen consoles.

7. Game will be a little different regarding imagery & sounds. They are not trying to duplicate other football games on the market.

8. Camera angles will be different in order to intimately capture the on field experience. For example on the road during a 4th down you may not be able to audible due to crowd noise. They want the user to feel what it’s like to have 300 pound monsters trying to break your head. They want you to see what it’s like to be a running back and hit the gaps. They are aware of past failures in other games regarding poor camera angles but are focused on creating the on field atmosphere.

9. They want to simplify controls and bring new ideas to the table.

10. This technology would look great in a Madden game but could not confirm if they will use the engine in the future.

11. Thinks APF2K8 was unique and well done without the NFL license. They will bring “Something else to the table.”

12. No exact release date – “Some time in 2008.”

13. Current football games need revolutionary change, we are trying to answer that. Are trying to achieve balance – need a deep, realistic experience but one in which anyone can pick up and play.

14. Did not confirm which console the game will be released on. “It will be on a next gen console.”

15. Tackles will be simulated in 90 frames per second. No jumps in animation, real fluid.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:44 am

They have to show some playable camera angles, not those tight shots which are more for replays and highlights.

I hope it does well but it seems to me that they just want to try to license their technology rather than develop games.

Did they start making this game to upstage Madden and shame EA into licensing their tech. or do they think they can contribute to the genre and plan to be in the market for years?

If this is a 1-year phenomenon like APF2K8, then they're not going to have much credibility.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:06 am

It a tech demo and that's all it will ever be until they show they can program more then guys being tackled.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:10 pm

IGN has a sort've hands-on:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/901/901759p1.html

hellbent · Post by **hellbent** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:54 pm

GTHobbes wrote:IGN has a sort've hands-on:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/901/901759p1.html

Interesting - sounds like the devs are going for a Blitz type of title, probably a good idea for a non-licensed title to grab the casual gamer. If it's customizable and fun, it might be worth a look.

I still don't have high hopes the game will see the light of day unless they get backing from a major publisher (MS/EA, Sony, Midway?) as the development of any actual gameplay seems to be progressing at a snail's pace.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:32 pm

Rather than gunning for the simulation crown that Madden currently holds, NaturalMotion is going for arcade gameplay that has the most realistic motion ever seen in a videogame. You'll see things like defenders taking off from three yards away to lay the smack down on an unsuspecting quarterback and airborne receivers getting flipped end over end when trying to make a catch. It's nowhere near as ridiculous as Midway's Blitz but it does cash in on the same freedoms that come with the lack of the NFL license.

Yeah stopped reading at that point. Didn't they say this game was coming out this year at one point?

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:22 pm

Saw this short new video posted over at OS & BackBreaker's Twitter:

http://www.vimeo.com/4296220

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:07 pm

I saw a video at OS, seems like a cut scene to me, not sure why is so special about it.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:34 pm

hellbent wrote: I still don't have high hopes the game will see the light of day unless they get backing from a major publisher (MS/EA, Sony, Midway?) as the development of any actual gameplay seems to be progressing at a snail's pace.

Gamestop's now showing an October 2009 release date, with Atari listed as the publisher.

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/Product ... t_id=74567

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:45 pm

GTHobbes wrote: Gamestop's now showing an October 2009 release date, with Atari listed as the publisher.

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/Product ... t_id=74567

http://forum.backbreakergame.com/showpo ... stcount=12

Just to nip this in the bud ... we haven't made any announcements about publisher, price point or release date. The Gamestop database isn't always accurate.

------

Also it states Atari as the developer and publisher.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:54 pm

Thanks, bd...interesting. The mod over there just posted this follow up:

"We appreciate the pre-order, but don't bank on any specific timing or release details just yet. You'll know the specifics when we announce them. But, as we've said all along, this is a 2009 release."

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:31 pm

From the BackBreaker forums...lookin' good!

"Hey Backbreaker faithful - particularly those PS3 owners among you,

We wanted to give you a heads-up: a couple weeks ago we had the good folks from PSN's QORE show out to the NaturalMotion studio to check out Backbreaker.

Episode 12 of QORE, which goes live tomorrow, has a whole segment on how Backbreaker's bone-crunching tackles are going to change football gaming forever.

Here's the PlayStation.Blog post that just went live about the episode, including a trailer with some sneak peeks at the euphoria goodness:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2009/05/ ... -euphoria/

Hope you enjoy."

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:06 pm

All I saw was more tackling videos, and talk of the technology in that short clip. I didn't see anything on a game, guess we'll see at e3 if these guys are for real, personally I doubt it.

It's amazing the small group of followers this game has gathered based on absolutely nothing of substance.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:25 pm

Danimal wrote: It's amazing the small group of followers this game has gathered based on absolutely nothing of substance.

Ya know, you could change the word "small" in your post to "incredibly large" and just as easily be talking about NCAA or Madden, IMHO.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:47 pm

GTHobbes wrote: Ya know, you could change the word "small" in your post to "incredibly large" and just as easily be talking about NCAA or Madden, IMHO.

EA has a game, you may not like it but it has one. Unless you're privy to something the rest of us aren't there has been no actual game shown for BB yet. I say yet because no one could spew out that much BS and not deliver something.

Maybe they will show game play on this show tomorrow of whenever it is but I highly doubt it. Personally I can't wait to seem them actual show something, I'll give the game a shot if there is one.

But giving it a shot and blind devotion to something no one has seen is incredibly silly IMHO.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Wed May 06, 2009 9:08 pm

Danimal wrote: But giving it a shot and blind devotion to something no one has seen is incredibly silly IMHO.

Ditto. Those Backbreaker forums scare me. I keep my hard-on's limited to the opposite sex, not a video game.

hellbent · Post by **hellbent** » Thu May 07, 2009 12:54 am

Now that Duke Nukem Forever may finally be dead, Backbreaker moves up one notch on "the most anticipated game that is likely still vaporware" list.

I truly do hope it comes out this year, even though it can't possibly meet its fanboys' lofty expectations. With how dull NCAA & Madden have been the last few years, I might even play some of "Doug Williams Black College Football Xperience" just to play a football game with something resembling a fun factor this fall.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:05 am

The game could bring the goods, really redefine football games and yet, in this environment, it won't sell well enough to sustain development.

And they probably won't get it right the first time so it will take years more to refine and put it on a footing to get noticed by the larger market.

They can't give APF2K away so what chance does a title which has no history have?

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:22 pm

wco81 wrote:The game could bring the goods, really redefine football games and yet, in this environment, it won't sell well enough to sustain development.

I don't know how much profit they'd have to make in order to sustain future development. I may be naive, but I've gotten the impression they're doing this more for their own want of a great football game than anything. And remember...at one time, they only had like 6 guys making the game, so there's considerably less mouths to feed than at EA, where if Madden didn't sell 5 million copies in a year there would be major hell to pay. For all we know, 100 thousand units sold could be a HUGE success for them. Especially if it means ultimately selling or licensing their technology to EA or Ubisoft or some other major gamemaker for a boatload of money.

Regardless of their intentions or plans...I'm glad they're doing it. The videogame football genre has needed a kick in the ass for a long time now.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:01 pm

So where is all the cool information or game play footage they were going to show case today on this PSN show or whatever it was.

Anything to see? Did they show anything resembling a game or just more tackles? Or was it just more to spot light the engine again?

EDIT: I heard it's on the PSN Store I am going to go download it.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:37 pm

Forgot to bring my Ps3 up North but it has found it's way to youtube.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2LCr5k6y9_A&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

I shall now predict the future.

GTHobbes: EA Sucks, this looks amazing, I shall now make a few more posts about how EA sucks over at OS. (seriously GT you might be going off the deep end)

Bdoughty: Gameplay please?

Danimal: Ditto