WE8:I Impressions and Helpful Hints

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:58 am

Yep, it's scary as hell when your goalie is dreaming while somebody blasts one off the post... makes you want to go tap him on the shoulder and ask him if he can be bothered to pay attention for at least the duration of the match. So far I haven't had one do in while my goalie was daydreaming, so I am also chalking it up to my goalie having uncanny senses.

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:37 am

The best ones are when your goalie just watches that back pass trickle out for a corner. Love that.

vanburen · Post by **vanburen** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:08 pm

Slumberland wrote: But this goalie inattentiveness is the real problem. It's funny when the shot's off frame, but I've had the ball go off the post a couple times while my keeper just stands there, and now I've even had two goals STRAIGHT UP GO IN WHILE MY GOALIE JUST STANDS THERE WATCHING. Not fun, especially when you're clinging to a 1-0 lead in injury time.

I'm not going to trot out "gamekiller" or anything like that, but I spend more time thinking about stuff I find patently unfair when playing 8 than I ever did with 7.

I read in the instruction book there's a way to take control of your keeper besides just bringing him out. has anyone tried this? I haven't yet, but I might if I have a 2 goal lead sometime and I think of it (btw: announcers always say this is the most dangerous lead. isn't that preposterous?)

There were times in WE7 when the GK would do stupid things like punch a ball that should be caught or stand still as an attacker poaches a ball. Overall, it doesn't seem that bad to me. Real keepers make gaffes too.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:16 pm

vanburen wrote:. . . a 2 goal lead sometime and I think of it (btw: announcers always say this is the most dangerous lead. isn't that preposterous?)

This is one of the cliches of soccer, and indeed it is true. A 2 goal lead, especially at halftime, is in fact the most dangerous lead to have.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:40 pm

Playing WE just ruins other games for me. I tried to play ESPN NBA last night, and it just felt so scripted... not in the outcome, but in the fact that there's only about five things that can happen any time you go down the floor. Maybe someday a developer (konami?) will make a basketball game that's more of a ball and body physics simulator, and thinks less about pre-animating basketball-ish type moves.

Has anyone tried the player camera yet? It's a bit tough to get your bearings, but I played a half today with the player cam just as the goalie, which was a bit boring but a bit cool, and then switched to a forward at halftime. A teammate scored on one of my crosses... looked and felt amazing with that camera. A fun diversion if nothing else.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:17 pm

I still can't get over how well this game differentiates the good teams from the bad. In my Premiership season as Liverpool, I was able to blast West Brom, always taking the attack to them. Then I had to play those Man U bastards and it felt like they had a few extra players on the field at all time. Got absolutely destroyed as they kept attacking me in ways West Brom could not. Stupid Man U.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:10 pm

Slumberland wrote:Maybe someday a developer (konami?) will make a basketball game that's more of a ball and body physics simulator, and thinks less about pre-animating basketball-ish type moves.

Konami's tried basketball many times, they don't get it either. I think one thing that helps soccer is that it doesn't have the physicality of some of the other sports (by the rules anyway), and the physicality that is there is handled beautifully by Winning Eleven. I still think the biggest problem with the basketball games is that they don't handle all of the interactions with the players very well, whether it's picks, force fields, banging in the paint or whatever. What I think the basketball games could learn from Winning Eleven is:
1. Passing. Yes, I occasionally pass to someone I don't want to in WE, but with far less frequency than the hoop games. Find out what WE does exactly and steal it.
2. Animations. They need to make the basketball animations flow from one to another better.
3. Not enough randomness. In WE, sometimes the computer player will be all by his self on the sideline and accidentally lose the ball out of bounds. The equivalent in a basketball game would be a player stepping on the out of bounds line on a baseline drive, or throwing the ball way over a player's head who's open on the sidelines. Sadly, this never happens.

Having said that, I'm not sure Winning Eleven really does soccer any better than say Madden or ESPN does football or High Heat used to do baseball. I'm being complimentary to the football and baseball games, of course. It's easy to take for granted that we are so familiar with football, that games that do a zillion things right but maybe have braindead defensive backs are fatally flawed. The NFL games are really well done, when you get down to it.

Granatofan · Post by **Granatofan** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:13 pm

Kazuya wrote: 3. Not enough randomness. In WE, sometimes the computer player will be all by his self on the sideline and accidentally lose the ball out of bounds. The equivalent in a basketball game would be a player stepping on the out of bounds line on a baseline drive, or throwing the ball way over a player's head who's open on the sidelines. Sadly, this never happens.

I've seen players off the ball just run along and stumble in WE. The first time I saw it I did a double-take and watched the replay a bunch of times to make sure. Sometimes it happens when they change direction real fast, but this one time a guy was just running straight ahead and looking over his shoulder....just before I hit the pass button he stumbled and I had to forget about the pass. Awesome moment.

Ted

Post by **Jared** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:18 pm

Kazuya wrote: Having said that, I'm not sure Winning Eleven really does soccer any better than say Madden or ESPN does football or High Heat used to do baseball. I'm being complimentary to the football and baseball games, of course. It's easy to take for granted that we are so familiar with football, that games that do a zillion things right but maybe have braindead defensive backs are fatally flawed. The NFL games are really well done, when you get down to it.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Even though these are all good games, I can think of problems in each of the games you listed that are bigger than any problems I can come up with in Winning Eleven.

Madden: Super DBs that have eyes in the back of their head and giant verticals that can bat down passes that no human DB can touch.

ESPN: DB AI.

High Heat: Don't know the problems in this as well...but I could turn just about any outside slider into a double and hit waaaaaay too many opposite field home runs.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:12 pm

I think the game is great, but if defensive backs didn't cover someone on a fly pattern because the pass was ultimately going to be off target or shortstops didn't move towards balls they knew they couldn't field we would be ripping those games. I think the goalie bug is more significant than we want to admit. It just looks so damn stupid and *does* occassionally affect gameplay.

Granatofan · Post by **Granatofan** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:07 am

Leebo33 wrote:I think the game is great, but if defensive backs didn't cover someone on a fly pattern because the pass was ultimately going to be off target or shortstops didn't move towards balls they knew they couldn't field we would be ripping those games. I think the goalie bug is more significant than we want to admit. It just looks so damn stupid and *does* occassionally affect gameplay.

I agree. I have to wonder if the goalie thing didn't get polished because of the time spent on an xbox version and implementing online play (where applicable). And related to that I'm not surprised that online got pulled from NA with the forum posts I read about real lag problems on both PC and Xbox Live in Europe.

Ted

MUTTS · Post by **MUTTS** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:04 am

Well, thanx to you F***ers I went out and got this game knowing as little as I do about soccer. I figure the expense is a way to celebrate the birth of PK's little one.

Only cost me $10 bucks as I sold 3 games (all from 2003) that were collecting dust so not too bad.

Thank God for the tutorial- it really helps. Quick question- time setting for my games should be 10, 15, 20 min? Please help and wish me luck.

I'm sure I'll suck.

tony

Granatofan · Post by **Granatofan** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:14 am

Everyone plays different match times and I think it depends on your play style. I like the quick 10 minute matches, but scoring opportunities can be harder to come by. I seem to get the best stats at 15 minutes, but there are plenty of guys that play at 20 minutes. Until you get used to the game I would go for 10 minutes just because you can earn WEN faster to unlock some cool features.

Ted

Granatofan · Post by **Granatofan** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:17 am

double post

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:43 am

I know absolutely dick about soccer. I've been to a couple of Colorado Rapids games, but never really paid enough attention to figure out what is goin on.

Anyway, this game is a lot of fun to play. It's kind of like... um... keep away from Boom.... at the moment, but a fun version of keep away from boom.

jimd · Post by **jimd** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:48 pm

Just a few things I have picked up after another week of playing:

For those that played a lot of WE7 like myself, it obvious that crossing in from the wings and heading in goals is not nearly as effective in WE8 as it was in WE7. It seems that all my headers were going over the bar.

Lately I have been double-tapping the B button on my crosses, which sends it in low and hard and have had a lot more success. Actually scored on a few diving headers--beautiful!

The same thing goes for corners. To achieve a lower/faster cross, hold UP on the left-stick when taking the cross (don't worry as much about in-swinging and out-swinging like in WE7). I haven't actually scored doing this, but in the two games I tried it I had one header bang off the cross bar and another the GK made a sweet diving save.

In other news, I won my first game on 5* last night. (It also happened to be my first SGN league game.) A 2-1 win for Roma over Man. City. Came back from being down 1-0 early in the second half...an absolute thriller. Tonight I am going to start my Master League...now the addiction really starts to kick in.

Granatofan · Post by **Granatofan** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:05 pm

Fifa,

I use two methods when I get near the box. If I have a good dribbler with the ball I'll try to enter the box and look for a shot or draw a foul. But there are always a few outlets about 5 yards outside of the box in the center or at the corners. I'll look to dump it ouside for a shot or pass back in or lay it to the corners for crosses in. My offense if really basic and I'm not a prolific scorer, but this is the way I keep good possession. If my attack fails the defense often just clears the ball out of touch or way back to one of my center backs and I start over again.

Ted

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:25 pm

I've been having some success with what WE would call the 'early cross.' Much more than in 7, I've been having some luck sending in the cross from above the top of the box with the modified B button (L + B button). Also, the one-two is massively effective. It ain't money, not by any stretch, but it is a very powerful tool. I think it was PK who pointed out that you don't even need to make the return pass, because often the initial passer will draw lots of attention on his run. The one thing I don't like is that you if you want to make the return pass, you have to do it quickly, as the window of time the game gives you for the special return pass is pretty short. Don't be afraid to use the B button for the return, either, as that can be very useful.

Oh yeah, and the modified through-pass (L and the through pass), which flips it in the air, can be pretty effective sometimes, too. In general though, I dislike the lack or predictability in the through-pass. I wish it were like the MajorA/ISS style, where the through ball was entirely predictable when you used it. That's not to say I don't use it or don't have success with it, but sometimes I am like "why the hell is he running THAT way?"

And finally, I am slowly rediscovering how little space some guys need to get off a powerful shot. Sometimes the tried-and-true Preki-style cut back at the top of the box is all I need to get off a big blast. Of course, the trick I need to remember is to get it off quickly, with no extra touches. Otherwise they recover and block it. And don't forget about working to draw fouls. When frustrated (= all the time) I fall back on this, and hey, sometimes I get one in from the set-piece.

vanburen · Post by **vanburen** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:50 pm

excellent preki reference.

I find I usually get bogged down on offense when I try to get too close to goal before shooting. it's tough to get in the habit of shooting often from outside the 18, but it works. I don't usually score from there, but I get deflections off defenders and keepers that open things up for a pass or shot. or corners.

the 1-2 does work very well, and I also think cutting back from the wing at a 90 degree angle rather than a cross opens up the defense a little.

I had such trouble scoring that I switched to a 4-3-3, and it's been more fun on offense and defense b/c too often I ended with midfield gridlock.