OT: Another annoying HDTV Question from a Newbie

[dbdynsty25]

Has anyone had a chance to check out the Sony 36" FD Trinitron WEGA HDTV, model # KD-36XS955?

I'm josing to get a decent HDTV for around 1,500 or less and it seems like the best deal. I have a hookup at Sony so the 1,700 retail is more like 1,250 after my discount. I'm trying to stick with Sony just because of that fact, but if there is a competing product that's just as good for under 1,500 I'd definitely consider it.

Supposedly the set I'm speaking of has only been out since October so it's been hard to come by a lot of information on Picture Quality and configurations. I have been seeing multiple opinions...mostly that the XS series is comparable to the XBR's that came out last year. The price tag is rather large on the XBR's so if it's anywhere close to the same picture quality, I'd go with the XS.

I'd also like to hear people's opinions on 4:3 compared to 16:9 and the pros and cons of both. I'd mostly be watching DirecTV on it, with some over the air HD on the main channels. I will be watching DVD's as well, but those would take up maybe 5% of the total viewing time on the TV. Of course all of the current consoles and future would be played on it as well. I'm just not sure if I'm willing to sacrafice the extra size (in 4:3) for the few times we can truely enjoy the 16:9 screen. But I'm open to suggestions of course.

I am leaning towards a CRT strictly because when I see all of the TV's in the stores running HD content, I think the CRT's look better. I'm not sure why that is, but that's the way I see it. It's also a bonus that they are very well priced when compared to other hardware formats. The downfall is that the one I want is 240 pounds. I definitely want one with the HDTV tuner built in so I can get some over the air broadcasts until such time as DirecTV carries some more HD content.

Any and all help will be appreciated.

[Spooky]

4:3 = Don't bother.


Seriously. I can't imagine buying a new TV that's over $1,000 and not having it be 16:9. I can barely look at a 4:3 TV now after watching (and ESPECIALLY gaming) on a 16:9 set.

4:3 is on it's way out and fast!!! Sure, there is stall a ton of programming in 4:3, however, it's not like a 16:9 TV cannot show a 4:3 broadcast. So there is a bit of stretching, you’ll get used to that in a day. I am SO sick of hearing people b*tch about having the picture stretched or having black bars on the side if you choose not to stretch a 4:3 program. Sony and Toshiba TV’s have REALLY good zoom/stretch modes to where you won’t even notice it at all after a couple hours. Seriously. Do you watch a lot of DVD movies? If the answer is yes, it should be a no brainer! Are you planning on getting HDTV channels? If you say yes to that as well I’d think you were seriously nuts to not get a 16:9 set.

I got a 26” LCD 16:9 set for my bedroom and now have a terribly hard time watching the old square family TV. Especially for my games. The funny thing is that it is more the fact that the TV is not 16:9 that bothers me more than the fact the picture is not as good.

If you want to stay in the $1500 range and you want a tube based set (don’t blame you), PLEASE go with a 34” 16:9 Sony instead of that 36” square one!!!

[Zeppo]

There are others with more experience in this than I, as I don't have an HD set myself. Yet. But I helped my folks get setup with theirs, and they have DirecTV.

The DirecTV sattelite receiver box (at least the Samsung my folks got from DirecTV through the customer retention special deal) includes an OTA receiver. So, if you have DirecTV I'm pretty sure you won't be needing a separate OTA tuner. One cool feature is that it will integrate the info for the OTA channels with the regular sattelite guide. One thing is the antenna thing- most people need an antenna in order to get most of the OTA signals. Of course, with cable, no antenna is needed to get the local channels in HD. And in cable you will get the local sports network in HD (a lot of them are HD for home games these days, I'm sure in LA they are all HD by now). If you really want to get everything broadcast in HD, you would need DrecTV AND cable (although I think even the HDNet channels are now carried on cable, and at least until they can get more sattelite bandwidth, the local sports channels won't be HD on the dish).

16x9 is undoubtedly the way to go. Yes, for a certain amount of what you may watch for the next couple of years, you will deal with the 4x3 signal, but I think you will be surprised once you go HD that you will see a TON of HD content. There are more and more cable-type channels going HD (ESPN2HD just launched, there's TNT HD- good for the hoops- which DirecTV has to get at some point, there's UniversalHD which was BravoHD a while ago). Plus pretty much all the network prime-time schedules are HD now. And then you have ESPNHD which shows quite a bit of HD events. Not everything, obviously, but a lot of the live events they show are in HD,and now with ESPN2HD, golly. I'm one who happens to think it is illogical to get an HDTV in 4x3. If you want to watch 4x3 content, just get a regular TV. If you want to get and HDTV, get one in the proper format.

[Steve_OS]

I'd also like to hear people's opinions on 4:3 compared to 16:9 and the pros and cons of both. I'd mostly be watching DirecTV on it, with some over the air HD on the main channels. I will be watching DVD's as well, but those would take up maybe 5% of the total viewing time on the TV. Of course all of the current consoles and future would be played on it as well. I'm just not sure if I'm willing to sacrafice the extra size (in 4:3) for the few times we can truely enjoy the 16:9 screen. But I'm open to suggestions of course.

I am leaning towards a CRT strictly because when I see all of the TV's in the stores running HD content, I think the CRT's look better. I'm not sure why that is, but that's the way I see it. It's also a bonus that they are very well priced when compared to other hardware formats. The downfall is that the one I want is 240 pounds. I definitely want one with the HDTV tuner built in so I can get some over the air broadcasts until such time as DirecTV carries some more HD content.

Any and all help will be appreciated.

If you go w/ HD, IMHO, you need to get a 16x9 set to really enjoy it all. DirecTV has quite a few HD channels, that you have to order, but they are all well worth it. Especially during the NFL regular season, where you get almost all of the games in HD format.

It sucks for the NBA tho, as there just aren't as many games broadcast via DirecTV in HD, even w/ the "Season Pass", which really sucks. I know you can get INHD w/ some cable companies, if you really love the NBA. I keep hearing rumors about HD NBA for DirecTV but I haven't seen anything. Only a few games on ESPN HD, but they are few and far between.

Over the air HD is nice as well, but you won't get the same effect on a 4:3 TV. The only thing I don't like about the 16x9 set is the stretching of shows that aren't in HD. Some 16x9 tv's stretch picture pretty well, but it's best just to set the 16x9 tv to 4x3 mode when watching non HD stuff.

Hope that makes sense.

[skidmark]

Looks like a pretty good set for that price. The xs is supposed to be similiar to the xbr's as they are both supposed to be the "super-fine" pitch models. I snagged an 34xbr910 last year and have been very happy with it so far.

The 4:3 vs 16:9 is always a big argument over at the avs forums, especially if you are talking about projectors. The xbr910 is a widescreen set and I wouldn't go back now. I was kind of doubtful with the same "am I loosing screenspace" thoughts going in, but I definitely prefer the widescreen set now. First off, the xbr does a great job changing a 4:3 signal to fill a 16:9 set with its wide-zoom option. Secondly, consider when the set content will really shine... during regular tv viewing or hd and dvd viewing? HD content is a 16:9 feed, and I've always preferred dvd's in their 16:9 format... so as long as a regular feed is serviceable (which it definitely is on these sets), I am happy with it. When I watch the set as it displays the material that really shows why I bought it to begin with (dvd's, HD), I want as much of the screen used as possible.

[dbdynsty25]

Thanks guys...I just don't know if I can get used to watching regular TV on a widescreen. I realize that eventually the HD content will beef up and by that time there will be much better sets out for the price anyway. This one could possibly be relegated to a game room or a bedroom at that point. I just really can't decide on the size. 34 in widescreen just seems so small. I'll have to check them out side by side in a store somewhere.

It does look like my DirecTV Tivo boxes all have Antenna Inputs so that would be cool as hell if I don't need to get anything else. I'm not sure how it works with the guide and all that, but it seems like it would work fundamentally.

[Steve_OS]

Thanks guys...I just don't know if I can get used to watching regular TV on a widescreen. I realize that eventually the HD content will beef up and by that time there will be much better sets out for the price anyway. This one could possibly be relegated to a game room or a bedroom at that point. I just really can't decide on the size. 34 in widescreen just seems so small. I'll have to check them out side by side in a store somewhere.

It does look like my DirecTV Tivo boxes all have Antenna Inputs so that would be cool as hell if I don't need to get anything else. I'm not sure how it works with the guide and all that, but it seems like it would work fundamentally.

But the thing is, you can view regular TV on a widescreen. You have the option of watching it stretched, or normal 4x3 mode. There is a button on the DirecTV remote.

When you are talking about antenna inputs, are you talking about OTA inputs?? Because if so, you really need to get a HD DirecTV reciever to get OTA channels. You can't just use a basic TIVO box to get OTA HD. Unless I'm totally misunderstanding what you are saying.

[fsquid]

on my mitsubishi DLP, I can watch a 4:3 program in 4:3 mode.

[Zeppo]

db, I think you are underestimating 2 key things; first, the relative annoyance of watching wide-screen material on a 4x3 screen, vs. the watching 4x3 material on a wide-screen unit. In my experience, the former is far, far more annoying than the latter. Add to that the various stretch modes and zooms for watching 4x3 on a wide-screen, and it's an even wider 'annoyance gap.'

Second, I think you are heavily underestimating the amount of wide-screen HD content you are going to have available to you. The thing you will miss the most is the ability to watch your Braves in HD when they visit Dodger Stadium. But for the most part, you are going to find yourseld watching mostly news in 4x3 I think. Pretty much all prime-time is HD now, and between ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, and TNTHD, that's a lot of sports in HD. Plus, Fox shows nearly all their NFL games in HD, and though CBS is showing less, they will increase it as the years go by. I wouldn't be surprised if next season all NFL games are HD (I have no info on this, I'm sure some the AVSforums have real info). When visiting my folks this football season, we simply never watched an NFL game that wasn't HD exscept for a couple of specific situations. Rather, we would just stay in the 900s where the Sunday Ticket HD games are, or the OTA games which were always HD on Fox and usually on CBS, too.

My point is that if you are entirely convinced a 4x3 set makes more sense, then I think you are making a big mistake and will soon discover you were wrong. I have a couple of friends who went the 4x3 route, and they, all of them, regret it. There was one friend who came by my folks place over Xmas, and he has a large 4x3 HD-ready Sony. He couldn't stop saying things like "I can't believe how good this picture looks" and so on. I said, "But you have an HD set, don't you watch HD stuff?" And his reply was along the lines of "The letter boxing on the HD content makes the screen so small, it doesn't look as good as this, I wish I had gotten the 16x9 one," and so on.

Listen to Spooky, listen to Steve. They are living with their units. They know what they are talking about.

[GridIronGhost]

Just picked it up from best buy on Sunday, got it for 1,600.00. I still have not set it up, it's in the box...heavy mofo! I bought it so I can play video games on it...period! Going to hook up the PC, xbox and dreamcast to it. I've always owned Sony CRT TV, no reason to change now...they may cost more, but they are second to none IMO.

As to the 4:3 vs 16:9, I have been waiting years for 4:3 to die...it's not going to happen any time soon. A 36" 4:3 in wide screen mode give you 1.25" to 2" bars on top and bottom...not much difference then owning a 34" wide screen TV IMO. Games that are done right in 16:9 on the xbox are fan-f***in-tastic, but there are not many that I play that are done correctly.

I have owned several wide screen TV's and my 35" Sony Trinitron that I have owned for 6 years has giving me the bang for my buck as far as gaming goes. I'm only replacing it because it broke from user abuse. Maybe the wide screen sets that others have mentioned can stretch a 4:3 very well...I just have never seen a good one and I gave up looking a year ago.

I don't have Direct TV, only basic cable. I don't' watch much TV, only some sports games. So regular 4:3 is good enough for me at this time. I'll be able to watch local channels in HD with the built in tuner, that's a plus. As for DVD movies I have a theater room for that, although the 36" TV would be just as good as the 34" wide screen your thinking of getting.

[dbdynsty25]

Man you guys are killing me. Now I'm REALLY confused.

As for Sunday ticket and other DirecTV programming...I'm sure I need to get a High Definition Receiver (rather than the Tivo Receivers I currently have) to be able to view ANYTHING in HD. Is this assumption correct?

Now you guys have me looking around at Widescreens...I see the point about true HD programming looking much better on a true widescreen tv rather than just the bars on the top and bottom of the 4:3s. I just think a 34 inch is too small and anything larger than that, with a built in tuner, is going to be out of my price range (especially Sony's which are expensive). I've got two 27 inch tvs that I use now and it's not that big of a step up when you consider when you lose in screen real estate when you go to a widescreen tv.

BTW Zeppo, I won't be missing HD for the Braves @ Dodgers games...I'll be getting full definition. I never miss a game at the Stadium when the Braves are in town.

[Steve_OS]

Man you guys are killing me. Now I'm REALLY confused.

As for Sunday ticket and other DirecTV programming...I'm sure I need to get a High Definition Receiver (rather than the Tivo Receivers I currently have) to be able to view ANYTHING in HD. Is this assumption correct?

Now you guys have me looking around at Widescreens...I see the point about true HD programming looking much better on a true widescreen tv rather than just the bars on the top and bottom of the 4:3s. I just think a 34 inch is too small and anything larger than that, with a built in tuner, is going to be out of my price range (especially Sony's which are expensive). I've got two 27 inch tvs that I use now and it's not that big of a step up when you consider when you lose in screen real estate when you go to a widescreen tv.

BTW Zeppo, I won't be missing HD for the Braves @ Dodgers games...I'll be getting full definition. I never miss a game at the Stadium when the Braves are in town.

LOL.

Yes, you NEED to have a HD receiver to view HD stuff. They have HD Tivo as well, but they are mega pricey. The HD receiver comes w/ its own OTA connector as well, so you can get the OTA HD stuff. I'm guessing you are getting an antenna installed on the roof, or are you getting an indoor antenna??

[wco81]

Depends on what you expect. If for instance you want to get a low-priced set for now and maybe upgrade later, then maybe 4:3 doesn't matter as much. CRT direct-view still has the best picture but that could change in a couple of years and getting rid of a box which is 200 pounds or more could be a hassle.

If this isn't your primary set, then widescreen makes more sense, since you could always watch 4:3 on other sets.

I got the 34XBR910 and I figured I'd wait to watch actual HDTV but use it for a couple of years for DVDs and games. Well I got a tuner and didn't look back. Sports are the killer app. for HDTV sets and once you see football in HD, you don't want to go back.

The Sony XBR gives you a 2-year parts and labor, in-home warranty. Regular Sonys are 1 year parts, 90-days labor. Not sure about the XS though. One other thing is that my XBR has 7 video inputs, including 1 DVI and at least 3 components. My guess is the non-XBRs won't have that many inputs so you could save on having an AV receiver there.

I also use wide zoom when watching Direct TV and it looks fine. At first, some edges look fuzzy but Direct TV really overcompresses some channels. The finer pitch is showing the flaws in the signal. On a regular set, the same channels don't look fuzzy but they are not sharper. Sounds like a contradiction but you can actually see more details on the HDTV set even though the overall picture seems fuzzy. I'm pretty much used to it and never view it in 4:3 mode (black bars on the side). Only time I notice is on channels like ESPN where the scores scroll in the bottom.

But I watch a lot of the ESPN HD channel so that's taken care of.

[dbdynsty25]

Yes, you NEED to have a HD receiver to view HD stuff. They have HD Tivo as well, but they are mega pricey. The HD receiver comes w/ its own OTA connector as well, so you can get the OTA HD stuff.

So the smart money would be to buy a HD receiver and then a stand alone Tivo? Man, this is beginning to cost more and more each minute that goes by.

I guess I shouldn't limit myself to the Sony's assuming that I can find another one somewhere else that is equally as good, but cheaper. Are there anymore suggestions out there for a direct view CRT widescreen?

[wco81]

I wouldn't plunk $1000 on an HD Tivo at this point.

At the CES this month, Direct TV introduced DVRs designed by another company. These will have new interactive features.

Plus, Direct TV will start carrying all local HDTV stations, starting with the top 15 cities around this summer.

To make this happen, they will put up new satellites and use MPEG4 codecs instead of the MPEG2 they use now.

That means existing Direct TV receivers, including the Tivo units, will not be able to decode and play the new HDTV local stations.

The main HDTV channels like ESPN HD will remain MPEG2 for awhile as well as all the SD channels.

But the writing is on the wall.

[Zeppo]

Yes, you need some sort of HD/digital tuner to see any HD content.

If you have DirecTV, give a call and ask for 'customer retention.' I don't know if they still have a deal going, but I would be surprised if they don't. When I got my folks set up, DirecTV hooked them up with the new dish (you need triple-LNB oval dish for HD), installation (from some local dudes), and an HD sattelite receiver (they got the Samsung, but I think there are 2 or 3 brands/models they give you) for $100. Our side of the bargain? Agreeing to 1 year of DriecTV's HD package for some $8/month more. I think they had to pay up front, and then were credited on future bills until the difference was $100.

But, the point is the Samsung box they got was like $500 in the CCs and BBs around. But DirecTV gave it to them for very little, especially when you consider the installation of the new dish (had to go in a new place from the old one due to the separate positioning of the HD sattelite) and all the cable run by those guys when they showed up.

And, of course the sattelite receiver also serves as an OTA receiver for the digital OTA broadcasts. So that's why I'm saying you won't need a built-in tuner in the TV. Get the DriecTV HD setup and your set.

Or you can get cable, who will give you an HD box for no more than a regular box, (generally you pay an extra $6-$8/month for the cable HD channel package) and they carry whatever you would be able to get OTA, in addition to the ESPNHDs and Discovery HDs and HDNets and so on.

Note, if you don't go the calbe route for the local digital channels you will want an antenna, preferably an outdoor antenna, to get OTA digital broadcasts, at least until new, more powerful transmitters go up, which seems to be happening bit by bit these days.

[wco81]

I think HDTV sets of a certain size now are suppose to have HDTV tuners.

So there's no harm.

Most of the HDTV programming is on the broadcast networks, including football and programs like 24, Lost, etc. However, if you want ESPN HD, HBO HD and so on, you have to get cable or satellite.

Comcast will rent you an HDTV box with just basic cable for about $25 a month. They don't always carry all the local channels. And some people with built-in HDTV tuners are able to get the unencrypted channels without their box. These unencrypted channels apparently include ESPN HD, InHD and right now, Showtime HD. I'm getting those channels for what is suppose to be a "basic" cable subscription.

Comcast now has a dual-tuner PVR which can record HDTV for $10 a month but they also require you to upgrade to a $45 a month tier.

As for the TV question again, the 34XBR910 and 960 contain the highest-resolution CRTs for consumer sets. Most sets now can resolve maybe about 1100 out of 1920 horizontal pixels. The XBRs are suppose to be able to get about 1400-1500. Don't know if the XS models have this tube. For now, it's fine because none of the HDTV broadcast material are actually sending out this many pixels.

That will change when blue-laser discs come out. It's also conceivable that video providers, which will include SBC in the future, will use advanced codecs to provide 1080p streams. Or maybe not, they could use the bandwidth to squeeze in more channels or quantity over quality.

Also, all 3 next-gen consoles are expected to support HDTV resolutions in all games. Probably 720p more than 1080i/p but that makes the argument for a 16:9 set unless you upgrade in a couple of years.

[dbdynsty25]

Zeppo,

The good thing about your suggestion is that my contract ended in December with DirecTV. I'm moving in about three weeks (that's when I'll buy the TV) and I'm going to have to have them come out and hook it all up anyway. I'm going to have to call them and tell them the situation and see what kind of deal I can get out of them.

My concern is Tivo...I NEED to have a TIVO available on this new TV. What are my options? If I get one of the regular HD receivers and get a stand alone TIVO...is it even going to be compatible? Or am I stuck buying the HD receiver with the TIVO included. There is no way around this, I need to have a TIVO on the main TV, which the new HD will be.

[Zeppo]

And some people with built-in HDTV tuners are able to get the unencrypted channels without their box. These unencrypted channels apparently include ESPN HD, InHD and right now, Showtime HD. I'm getting those channels for what is suppose to be a "basic" cable subscription.

Good stuff. I had no idea!

I'm not trying to tell anyone to avoid getting a tuner, I'm just saying you don't need one if you go directv or cable. And if a set without a tuner is cheaper than the same set with, well, you don't need a tuner.

[bdoughty]

DB I thought you were looking into the 40" Sony XBR? That TV, as long as you can live with the weight 300+ lbs solves all your problems.

40" watching regular TV
36" watching widescreen TV (better then the 34" XBR and they are the same price)

As much 4:3 content as there is still out there I do not want my stuff stretched. I have seen stretched 4:3 content on most every brand of TV and to me it looks pretty bad. Some can justify it by having a cool widescreen TV, some deal with the stretching, but reality is the MAJORITY of programming on the market is still in 4:3 and you will have to live with it for alot longer then most will lead you to believe. Sorry to WS owners but even when all the changes are implemented and everything goes DIGITAL that does not mean you will get a HD (widscreen signal). Digital does not = Widescreen and it is not a mandated that they have to produce a HD signal when everything changes over. Oh and as for those annoying black bars..... They will still exist on many DVD's and HD Movies you watch with that widescreen TV, so it's not like you can eliminate them by having a widescreen TV. Of course widescreen owners know that but commonly leave that out when they are discussing the pros and cons of the two.

There is also no gaurantee that ALL next gen games will be in HD format.

Go with what you think will serve you best. If you still watch alot of regular TV the HD 4:3 screens are just fine.

[Zeppo]

Zeppo,

The good thing about your suggestion is that my contract ended in December with DirecTV. I'm moving in about three weeks (that's when I'll buy the TV) and I'm going to have to have them come out and hook it all up anyway. I'm going to have to call them and tell them the situation and see what kind of deal I can get out of them.

My concern is Tivo...I NEED to have a TIVO available on this new TV. What are my options? If I get one of the regular HD receivers and get a stand alone TIVO...is it even going to be compatible? Or am I stuck buying the HD receiver with the TIVO included. There is no way around this, I need to have a TIVO on the main TV, which the new HD will be.

Well, the TiVO will not be able to record anything in HD. The samsung box my folks have has an S-Video out, and I'm pretty sure the box poops out a converted analog version of whatever it is receiving. That is to say, one could watch HBOHD or HDNet on a normal TV with the S-Video connection, but of course it would be a standard resolution version, and letterboxed, too!

So, you could configure it to use your TiVO to record whatever you want, but it will not be HD. If you wanted to watch HD, you would have to watch it live.

Or, you can get the current DirecTV HD TiVO which is like $1k. But I would listen to WCO and wait a while for a new HD DVR comes out.

Meanwhile, cable seems to have HD DVRs ready to go for not much more than the regular DVR boxes, if anything at all. Of course, no Sunday Ticket with cable.

[skidmark]

Yep, cable does seem like the best route if you are interested in hdtv and being able to digitally record in hd. My cable company offers an hd dvr for like $5 more than just having their regular hd package. If you are already sunk into a long term tivo deal or something, you'll still have all the other options and be able to record... you'll just be limited to recording and playback in standard definition (unless you sink the $1000 on HD Tivo, which is a pretty horrible deal right now).

[dbdynsty25]

Well, the TiVO will not be able to record anything in HD. The samsung box my folks have has an S-Video out, and I'm pretty sure the box poops out a converted analog version of whatever it is receiving. That is to say, one could watch HBOHD or HDNet on a normal TV with the S-Video connection, but of course it would be a standard resolution version, and letterboxed, too!

That sounds like it would work...but depending on how much DirecTV wants for the HD receiver, I might just be screwed either way since I'm going to have to pay another 200 bucks or so for a stand alone Tivo.

[dbdynsty25]

DB I thought you were looking into the 40" Sony XBR? That TV, as long as you can live with the weight 300+ lbs solves all your problems.

I was, but you can't buy those anymore through Sony, like I was going to do. They don't make them anymore apparently. I can't find anything, anywhere about them.

[dbdynsty25]

And Skid...I need DirecTV...I need the NFL Ticket. I just can't live without it on Sundays when the season rolls around next August.

As for everything else, I guess my best bet in terms of getting some HD programming is to get a stand alone Tivo w/ the HD Samsung receiver...at least until the combined units are more affordable.