Damn.... Need to find a store that has this sucker!dbdynsty25 wrote: I am a huge ID guy and 2k5 is closer to that then last years ESPN 2k4.
NBA2K5 Impressions
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jLp vAkEr0
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2K5 is much, much better than 2K4. I'll say that much.
I took the game online and played a few games and I can tell that the double team is going to be a problem, especially when combined with the poorly plassed icon passing button. It's very easy to double and it's very effective, and it isn't always so easy to break the double by passing to the open man. It's early and there may be ways to deal with this-I started having good success later on by backing away from the double to make space for the pass-but it will definitely be an issue on par with the bump n' run early in in Madden. It also pretty much makes all the off ball movement a moot point, as the game rapidly breaks down and becomes frenetic.
The other thing is that the player control is a little clunky, especially once you start working in the dribble moves. I don't feel particularly in control of my player.
The game is definitely better than last year's version, and I think it's better than 2K3. But I still suspect that Live might have a higher fun factor just due to the player control. That's a guess based off last year's game. I'll probably just hang onto ESPN and wait until I can rent Live...unless I start hearing from people who have both and really prefer Live, in which case I'll suck it up and head back out to the store.
I took the game online and played a few games and I can tell that the double team is going to be a problem, especially when combined with the poorly plassed icon passing button. It's very easy to double and it's very effective, and it isn't always so easy to break the double by passing to the open man. It's early and there may be ways to deal with this-I started having good success later on by backing away from the double to make space for the pass-but it will definitely be an issue on par with the bump n' run early in in Madden. It also pretty much makes all the off ball movement a moot point, as the game rapidly breaks down and becomes frenetic.
The other thing is that the player control is a little clunky, especially once you start working in the dribble moves. I don't feel particularly in control of my player.
The game is definitely better than last year's version, and I think it's better than 2K3. But I still suspect that Live might have a higher fun factor just due to the player control. That's a guess based off last year's game. I'll probably just hang onto ESPN and wait until I can rent Live...unless I start hearing from people who have both and really prefer Live, in which case I'll suck it up and head back out to the store.
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dbdynsty25
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It's actually quite the opposite. The spacing and collision detection really detract from the fun that can be had in Live. Sure it's a little more arcady...but it's still a fun game. But the fact that the players are too big for the court really put a damper on any positives that Live has over ESPN.seanmac31 wrote:I'll probably just hang onto ESPN and wait until I can rent Live...unless I start hearing from people who have both and really prefer Live, in which case I'll suck it up and head back out to the store.
That's interesting; from the videos, the players looked a little small. Throw in the Madden factor and I was assuming there would be more space in Live, not less.dbdynsty25 wrote:It's actually quite the opposite. The spacing and collision detection really detract from the fun that can be had in Live. Sure it's a little more arcady...but it's still a fun game. But the fact that the players are too big for the court really put a damper on any positives that Live has over ESPN.seanmac31 wrote:I'll probably just hang onto ESPN and wait until I can rent Live...unless I start hearing from people who have both and really prefer Live, in which case I'll suck it up and head back out to the store.
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dbdynsty25
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If the players are small, then the court is even smaller. I just cannot get over the fact that there is NEVER any room in the lane. All the players croud up and you get a bit of Mario Running a la Madden. There just isn't as much space as there is in ESPN, which seems about right to me. Maybe I'm hallucinating...it's happened before.
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sportdan30
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Bought the game after work. Haven't opened it just quite yet. I did play it for a few minutes @ EB Games and quickly noticed the high shooting percentages. My question is do the sliders really seem to make a difference in this catagory? The last thing I want to do is to be able to shoot 70-80% every game.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I'm not impressed so far. It's better than 2k4, but that isn't saying a lot. It may grow on me, but it is going to take massive slider tweaks. I just played a game on default All-Star and both teams shot 75%. I am also not a fan of the slow passes and the animations. They look pretty but I feel like I am not in control of the action. Hit the shot button and watch AI do a move I didn't intend.
Why did they take out the defensive crouch? It's not just that it is hard to get used to the controls, but I see it as causing problems on defense. We shall see.
Based on my initial impressions Live is much more sim out of the box. Let's see what sliders can do though. I'm glad it's $20...and I really don't get the Inside Drive comparisons.
Why did they take out the defensive crouch? It's not just that it is hard to get used to the controls, but I see it as causing problems on defense. We shall see.
Based on my initial impressions Live is much more sim out of the box. Let's see what sliders can do though. I'm glad it's $20...and I really don't get the Inside Drive comparisons.
Bought both games this afternoon and have played two full games with both. First let me say that both games have improved from last year, but ESPN has taken the biggest leap in improvement (BUT..............not too hard to improve on something that totally sucked last year). My early observations.............
ESPN plays a more realistic game. You just can't walk the ball down the court and freelance. You have to have a gameplan. Played on All Star with 10 minute quarters with moderate slider adjustments. Detroit vs Miami with me being Detroit. One of the first things you'll notice is offensive rebounding has been toned down alot. not saying that they are few and far between, but you nor the cpu will have 30 offensive rebound games like last year. Player movement off the ball is lot better. It's not 10 man mocap stuff but it sure is more realistic than 2K4's offering. You'll need to lower the shooting sliders for you as well as the cpu (I lowered both 5 notches) or everybody will fill it up. Post play is much better. As another poster noted the player control is a little tricky. they overdid momentum just a tad. Jack rabbit starts and stops causes turnovers and charging fouls. Speed boost is a tad too much as well. I was playing with game speed set to slow and it at times seemed i was playing on normal speed due to the unnantural speed boost. Teams seem to set up plays for their best offensive players. Stats were pretty realistic. Substitutions were very well timed as well.
NBA Live will probably end up being more fun for most players but for the purists of the sport (which seems to mirror most of the people here) will think realism was sacrificed for fun (but not by alot). 10 man mocap looks great but big heads on little bodies doesn't. As dbdynasty pointed out the court is a little smaller too. Animations for the most part are fantastic. The 'hop' has been really toned down. Overuse it but just a little and you'll turn it over more than you'll score. Didn't mess alot with the sliders but right off the bat blocked shots slider for both needs to be bumped down. From the two games I played (Detroit vs Miami just like ESPN) the cpu runs the offense through the best players. Shaq avg'ed 24 pts 9 rebounds in both games even though I doubled down on him every time he touched the ball (All Star 10 minute quarters). He passed out of the double team about half the time. Dunks look awesome. Substitution patterns were not implemented very well. This hopefully can be fixed with bumping up the fatigue slider and substitution slider. Commentary is much better than ESPN (Bill Walton is almost as bad as Tolbert was last year in 2K4 while Marv Albert and Mike Fratello are very entertaining). Game atmosphere is better in Live. Collision detection is annoying.
All in all both games are better and slider adjustments will make for more realism but for some reason I think ESPN plays a more realistic game in all sports games while EA takes the presentation and fun factor especially for casual gamers.
ESPN plays a more realistic game. You just can't walk the ball down the court and freelance. You have to have a gameplan. Played on All Star with 10 minute quarters with moderate slider adjustments. Detroit vs Miami with me being Detroit. One of the first things you'll notice is offensive rebounding has been toned down alot. not saying that they are few and far between, but you nor the cpu will have 30 offensive rebound games like last year. Player movement off the ball is lot better. It's not 10 man mocap stuff but it sure is more realistic than 2K4's offering. You'll need to lower the shooting sliders for you as well as the cpu (I lowered both 5 notches) or everybody will fill it up. Post play is much better. As another poster noted the player control is a little tricky. they overdid momentum just a tad. Jack rabbit starts and stops causes turnovers and charging fouls. Speed boost is a tad too much as well. I was playing with game speed set to slow and it at times seemed i was playing on normal speed due to the unnantural speed boost. Teams seem to set up plays for their best offensive players. Stats were pretty realistic. Substitutions were very well timed as well.
NBA Live will probably end up being more fun for most players but for the purists of the sport (which seems to mirror most of the people here) will think realism was sacrificed for fun (but not by alot). 10 man mocap looks great but big heads on little bodies doesn't. As dbdynasty pointed out the court is a little smaller too. Animations for the most part are fantastic. The 'hop' has been really toned down. Overuse it but just a little and you'll turn it over more than you'll score. Didn't mess alot with the sliders but right off the bat blocked shots slider for both needs to be bumped down. From the two games I played (Detroit vs Miami just like ESPN) the cpu runs the offense through the best players. Shaq avg'ed 24 pts 9 rebounds in both games even though I doubled down on him every time he touched the ball (All Star 10 minute quarters). He passed out of the double team about half the time. Dunks look awesome. Substitution patterns were not implemented very well. This hopefully can be fixed with bumping up the fatigue slider and substitution slider. Commentary is much better than ESPN (Bill Walton is almost as bad as Tolbert was last year in 2K4 while Marv Albert and Mike Fratello are very entertaining). Game atmosphere is better in Live. Collision detection is annoying.
All in all both games are better and slider adjustments will make for more realism but for some reason I think ESPN plays a more realistic game in all sports games while EA takes the presentation and fun factor especially for casual gamers.
Once I did this and cutoff my left finger so I wouldn't call for constant double teams instead of crouching, my enjoyment of this game has increased substantially. I think I was a little cranky at first because every shot was going in and they changed the control scheme for no apparent reason.blueduke wrote:You'll need to lower the shooting sliders for you as well as the cpu (I lowered both 5 notches) or everybody will fill it up
Had a few questions :
Does ESPN still play stiff/rigid or is it somewhat as fluid as Live was last year? Live in the past was more full court where ESPN was more half court, same this year?
In ESPN, is it like previous versions where you basically walk the ball up, work the post, shoot jumpers all in the same 'stiff' manner? Did they fix fast breaks where previously if you had a fast break, you would pass it and the other player would stop, catch, then do his layup? All in somewhat a slow paced fashion. Or is it more like Live where fast breaks are more fluid like in real life.
Does ESPN still play stiff/rigid or is it somewhat as fluid as Live was last year? Live in the past was more full court where ESPN was more half court, same this year?
In ESPN, is it like previous versions where you basically walk the ball up, work the post, shoot jumpers all in the same 'stiff' manner? Did they fix fast breaks where previously if you had a fast break, you would pass it and the other player would stop, catch, then do his layup? All in somewhat a slow paced fashion. Or is it more like Live where fast breaks are more fluid like in real life.
ESPN is not near as stiff as in the past but it is more of a half court game than Live. Fast breaks are more realistic but don't come as easy or often. You take it when it's available which is the way it should be. Players don't come to a stop when catching passes but the fast break it easier to perform in Live. Looks better too. Fast breaks are fluid in ESPN but in order to keep turnovers down you take it when you have it. You don't want just anybody leading the break either which is again just the way it should be.Weaver2005 wrote:Had a few questions :
Does ESPN still play stiff/rigid or is it somewhat as fluid as Live was last year? Live in the past was more full court where ESPN was more half court, same this year?
In ESPN, is it like previous versions where you basically walk the ball up, work the post, shoot jumpers all in the same 'stiff' manner? Did they fix fast breaks where previously if you had a fast break, you would pass it and the other player would stop, catch, then do his layup? All in somewhat a slow paced fashion. Or is it more like Live where fast breaks are more fluid like in real life.
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jLp vAkEr0
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Well I got ESPN 2k5....
What's up with the constant hooks? Looks like even if you are downlow your player will throw up a prayer. Same as for the CPU.
Controls feel sluggish, not as bad as 2k4 but still bad. No crouch buttom for crouching on D... ugh....
I don't know, I'll really give it a try but i'm not very optimistic.
What's up with the constant hooks? Looks like even if you are downlow your player will throw up a prayer. Same as for the CPU.
Controls feel sluggish, not as bad as 2k4 but still bad. No crouch buttom for crouching on D... ugh....
I don't know, I'll really give it a try but i'm not very optimistic.
Thats my big complaint so far on ESPN and I am just going to change to an alternate config. Boggles the mind they would remove something we have used for years with something you would not even use every time down the court. With Live it was hitting "X" too often and either lobbing shots on default setting or doing the pro hop when switching.Once I did this and cutoff my left finger so I wouldn't call for constant double teams instead of crouching, my enjoyment of this game has increased substantially.
Same complaint (controller config) arises with every new release. Sometimes you wonder if they do it on purpose just for shits and giggles.
The player control really is a little clunky. It's much like NFL2K5 in that there are radically different speeds available simply by altering how much pressure you put on the analog stick. Learning how to dribble seems to be a very similar experience to learning how to run properly in that game. You can ease up on the stick and get a good hesitation dribble going back and forth that sets up the crossover drive.
Even so, I'd probably rather not work quite so hard, and I'm wondering if the player control doesn't feel smoother and more natural in Live a la Madden.
Even so, I'd probably rather not work quite so hard, and I'm wondering if the player control doesn't feel smoother and more natural in Live a la Madden.
The more I play, the more I'm feeling this game. I'm preferring the singleplayer to the multiplayer right now (not an uncommon thing for basketball games, considering how hard it can be to defend junky crossover ridden game). I've gotten adjusted to how the players move, and I'm really starting to see the myriad ways in which VC has improved on last year's game. The offensive motion is just terrific- it's almost IDesque. My only major complaint is the fact that icon passing is not very practical this year, both because of the use of the black button and because it just doesn't stay up very long, so half the time you find yourself shooting when you thought you were passing.
Still, very good. I was going to pick up Live, but I may hold off now and wait for FIFA (I'd like to make a habit of not rewarding EA for charging twice as much for their product, so long as there is another game to go with).
Still, very good. I was going to pick up Live, but I may hold off now and wait for FIFA (I'd like to make a habit of not rewarding EA for charging twice as much for their product, so long as there is another game to go with).
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dbdynsty25
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Its funny Sean because I was in the same boat. I played the hell out of both games last night. I wasn't really feeling either of them after about 4 games a piece. It was starting to frustrate me. I took about an hour break and popped in ESPN.
If you really take your time and set up plays, it's much more rewarding than LIVE. The control is actually pretty good once you get used to it. By switching back and forth between LIVE and ESPN I never had a chance, but when I stuck with ESPN it was much much more enjoyable. Getting used to the nuances and the animations takes a few games straight and after I reached that point I was really really liking what I saw. It really does remind me of ID in a lot of ways.
Sure, there are some annoying things (like icon passing) but overall it seems to be a much more fluid and realistic game. Others will disagree of course.
If you really take your time and set up plays, it's much more rewarding than LIVE. The control is actually pretty good once you get used to it. By switching back and forth between LIVE and ESPN I never had a chance, but when I stuck with ESPN it was much much more enjoyable. Getting used to the nuances and the animations takes a few games straight and after I reached that point I was really really liking what I saw. It really does remind me of ID in a lot of ways.
Sure, there are some annoying things (like icon passing) but overall it seems to be a much more fluid and realistic game. Others will disagree of course.
played a few games last night.....
very solid game, IMO. I wish there was more to do on defense.
Dont know why they dont have a "face up/crouch" button? Seems like
all you can do is steal, jump or call for the double team. The offense is
nice. Nice pace and flow to the games. Might have to bump the shotting accuracy down a bit? I think once we nail the sliders, we will have a real nice playing game. Not enough fould called on default settings. Again, sliders.
The foul shooting was rediculously easy on default difficulty level. Does this get harder on all star? Why cant someone come up with a "fun" way to shoot fouls? How about using the right analog stick (like the golf swing in Tiger?)
I havent tried Live yet, so I don't know which I will prefer, but it sounds like we have 2 very solid games here, just like football. I envision Live might end up having a higher "fun factor", while 2K5 plays more like "real" hoops. Which one you end up with will come down to personal preference.
very solid game, IMO. I wish there was more to do on defense.
Dont know why they dont have a "face up/crouch" button? Seems like
all you can do is steal, jump or call for the double team. The offense is
nice. Nice pace and flow to the games. Might have to bump the shotting accuracy down a bit? I think once we nail the sliders, we will have a real nice playing game. Not enough fould called on default settings. Again, sliders.
The foul shooting was rediculously easy on default difficulty level. Does this get harder on all star? Why cant someone come up with a "fun" way to shoot fouls? How about using the right analog stick (like the golf swing in Tiger?)
I havent tried Live yet, so I don't know which I will prefer, but it sounds like we have 2 very solid games here, just like football. I envision Live might end up having a higher "fun factor", while 2K5 plays more like "real" hoops. Which one you end up with will come down to personal preference.
I don't know if this was in last years game or any other hoops game, but a cool thing I noticed last night, was as continuously scored against the cpu with a particular player, the cpu started to double team that player every time he got the ball and it was very difficult to pass out of the double team..
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dbdynsty25
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dbdynsty25
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I don't know if it was in 2K4 because it didn't last in my library very long, but Inside Drive did it and it was awesome. I really like how it's difficult to get rid of the ball in a double team, just like real life. The goal is then to not dribble into the double team.TheGamer wrote:I don't know if this was in last years game or any other hoops game, but a cool thing I noticed last night, was as continuously scored against the cpu with a particular player, the cpu started to double team that player every time he got the ball and it was very difficult to pass out of the double team..
A few questions: I played some ID last night. Lakes v. Celtics.
Kobe lit me up - but the Feel was different. I really felt like - with Ricky Davis guarding Kobe - the computer was attacking me for being an idiot and leaving that matchup on the floor. It was as brutal a beating as a videogame can administer. Kobe took Davis to the hole, he faked drives and hit fadeaways. Then, I switched Pierce to Kobe to see how he would react. Now, Kobe's running through screens, faking drives and hitting threes - but not as easily as on Davis. With Davis on him, he used his size and strength going to the basket. With Pierce, he used his quickness and fadeaway to counter Pierce's size (neither is an ideal matchup, but I wanted to compare the approaches). It was fun trying to stop him.
So, are you seeing this in ESPN? Does the computer target mismatches? Do the attack different matchups using different approaches? Do they stick with the mismatches if you don't alter your approach?
I really enjoy the thinking game behind ID, I really feel like - as in the NBA - matchups matter. I can take the Celtics and play the Lakers close, but lose because I have no real answer for Kobe, especially with some decent support from Odom and the Lakers' shooters. But I can take on the Knicks, and because the Cs matchup well at almost every position, handle them in a fairly comfortable fashion. It's a smart game, and I will likely end up trying to get the rosters as accurate as can be without the Bobcats being present; but was hoping ESPN might offer a similar challenge (once controls are mastered, I guess) with updated rosters and divisions.
B
Kobe lit me up - but the Feel was different. I really felt like - with Ricky Davis guarding Kobe - the computer was attacking me for being an idiot and leaving that matchup on the floor. It was as brutal a beating as a videogame can administer. Kobe took Davis to the hole, he faked drives and hit fadeaways. Then, I switched Pierce to Kobe to see how he would react. Now, Kobe's running through screens, faking drives and hitting threes - but not as easily as on Davis. With Davis on him, he used his size and strength going to the basket. With Pierce, he used his quickness and fadeaway to counter Pierce's size (neither is an ideal matchup, but I wanted to compare the approaches). It was fun trying to stop him.
So, are you seeing this in ESPN? Does the computer target mismatches? Do the attack different matchups using different approaches? Do they stick with the mismatches if you don't alter your approach?
I really enjoy the thinking game behind ID, I really feel like - as in the NBA - matchups matter. I can take the Celtics and play the Lakers close, but lose because I have no real answer for Kobe, especially with some decent support from Odom and the Lakers' shooters. But I can take on the Knicks, and because the Cs matchup well at almost every position, handle them in a fairly comfortable fashion. It's a smart game, and I will likely end up trying to get the rosters as accurate as can be without the Bobcats being present; but was hoping ESPN might offer a similar challenge (once controls are mastered, I guess) with updated rosters and divisions.
B
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dbdynsty25
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I'm not sure that we're going to see the adaptive AI in ESPN be on par with that of ID. I just don't think it's going to happen.
I had Alan Houston guarding TMac last night in a game and dude just lit me up. I was doubling Yao in the post so they started going right to TMac. Houston couldn't keep up with his explosiveness and he was hitting fadaways and driving to the rack all night long. I do think that there is some matchup AI so that they go to a matchup that's working, but I don't think it's on the same level as ID.
I had Alan Houston guarding TMac last night in a game and dude just lit me up. I was doubling Yao in the post so they started going right to TMac. Houston couldn't keep up with his explosiveness and he was hitting fadaways and driving to the rack all night long. I do think that there is some matchup AI so that they go to a matchup that's working, but I don't think it's on the same level as ID.