Racing Sim Thread, Part II

[Rodster]

The only review I read was from Eurogamer http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016- ... ole-review and the reviewer quite liked it for what it brings to the racing sim table. That said it appears to have performance issues on both consoles with screen tearing and framerate issues and that's pretty much it as far as negatives go. Besides that, it looks like the game ported well.

[F308GTB]

The only review I read was from Eurogamer http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016- ... ole-review and the reviewer quite liked it for what it brings to the racing sim table. That said it appears to have performance issues on both consoles with screen tearing and framerate issues and that's pretty much it as far as negatives go. Besides that, it looks like the game ported well.

Remember Race Pro for the Xbox? That was a Simbin title and a port of GTR that did poorly on the console. Why? Too dang "hard" for most. It's not Forza, it's not Gran Turismo, it's not Project Cars. It's a proper sim, just as Race Pro was. Sadly, that will likely kill it for the consoles. It's not so much the driving model as the AI sets the bar pretty high in terms of difficulty.

[pk500]

The biggest problem with Project Cars, and presumably Assetto Corsa, is not the demanding, realistic driving model. It's the assumption that the console player will use a wheel, not a controller.

Both of those games are designed for wheels. That's a piss-poor decision for a company looking for growth and sales on consoles, as the VAST majority of console racing gamers still use a stock Xbox One gamepad.

Slightly Mad and Kunos both could take notes from Codemasters. DIRT Rally has the most brutally unforgiving driving model of any console racing game, yet a controller still can be used to be competitive. F1 2016 isn't as much of a pure sim as DIRT Rally, but it's still very solid and can be driven with a controller.

I have little time for developers that place wheel owners above us "peasants" with gamepads. That's why I have zero interest in Assetto Corsa. I wrestled for a very long time to tweak controller settings to make Project Cars drive decently with a gamepad. I'm not going through that sh*t again.

[Rodster]

The biggest problem with Project Cars, and presumably Assetto Corsa, is not the demanding, realistic driving model. It's the assumption that the console player will use a wheel, not a controller.

Both of those games are designed for wheels. That's a piss-poor decision for a company looking for growth and sales on consoles, as the VAST majority of console racing gamers still use a stock Xbox One gamepad.

I have both Project Cars and Assetto Corsa for the PC and both games play extremely well with my wireless Xbox 360 controller but I do agree that Codie's has nailed the drivability of their games using a console controller.

[fletcher21]

I watched a video from a guy who is big into racing sims. I think it was something like buy, rent or pass type format. He said it's a rental at best. I echo pk sentiment about not wanting to be forced to use a wheel to fully enjoy the game. I don't know why it's so hard to program AI drivers who don't drive mindlessly on rails. How old is gran Turismo, and opponent AI hasn't made significant leaps? He said the game almost never keeps its frame rate steady, and has awful screen tearing and other issues with mindless ai. I'll give it time for a patch, assuming these issues can be patched. Just another disappointing console racer, apparently. Project cars is under $20, maybe I'll jump on that. Just not trying to spend hours tweaking a controller.

[pk500]

The biggest problem with Project Cars, and presumably Assetto Corsa, is not the demanding, realistic driving model. It's the assumption that the console player will use a wheel, not a controller.

Both of those games are designed for wheels. That's a piss-poor decision for a company looking for growth and sales on consoles, as the VAST majority of console racing gamers still use a stock Xbox One gamepad.

I have both Project Cars and Assetto Corsa for the PC and both games play extremely well with my wireless Xbox 360 controller but I do agree that Codie's has nailed the drivability of their games using a console controller.

I'm talking about driving console games with the default controller. Not PC games.

Project Cars SUCKS like a Bangkok whore on an Xbox One controller on default settings. Takes a ton of tweaking. Too much, to be frank. I only put in the effort because it's a brilliant game when working properly.

[pk500]

I watched a video from a guy who is big into racing sims. I think it was something like buy, rent or pass type format. He said it's a rental at best. I echo pk sentiment about not wanting to be forced to use a wheel to fully enjoy the game. I don't know why it's so hard to program AI drivers who don't drive mindlessly on rails. How old is gran Turismo, and opponent AI hasn't made significant leaps? He said the game almost never keeps its frame rate steady, and has awful screen tearing and other issues with mindless ai. I'll give it time for a patch, assuming these issues can be patched. Just another disappointing console racer, apparently. Project cars is under $20, maybe I'll jump on that. Just not trying to spend hours tweaking a controller.

Let me know if you buy PCars for XB1. I'll send you my controller settings. Pretty stable, comfortable to drive.

[Rodster]

Nascar Heat Evolution is getting ripped apart on Steam. Most of the reviews say the game requires a wheel as the controller inputs are laggy and choppy. The graphics are average, the settings for driving models are either ridiculously hard in sim mode or too easy in non-sim mode. Trying not to crash because of the controller issues is a challenge. Then of course there are a few who say the opposite and the game is a good first step.

[TCrouch]

It's definitely a good base. The AI is quite possibly the best I've ever seen in a NASCAR game, but it's about as bare bones as it gets. I ran 19 career mode races last night, but that's odd on the controller input. I had zero problems with the controller...and we're talking holding lines at Daytona 3 wide, and just about every other track. The WHEEL support is what's crap--my wheel doesn't work at all, so I HAD to use the controller. It will navigate the menus and hit A/B, but steering and axis don't work, and there's nowhere to remap buttons, nor any sort of controller wizard. Complete console port-itis.

But once I get into the racing, it's very old school NASCAR Heat. You can bang on the other cars, and the AI has been flawless for me up to this point. I haven't had the I cornhole me even once yet, and on one occasion at Dover in the closing laps last night, I was dicing with the 43 and the 36. We kept making moves around each other, but all sort of going the same speed. Here comes the 14, flying around the 43, cutting under him, rubbing my RF fender and splitting me and the 36. He ended up picking up like 5 places in the last lap (mid-pack places, but still).

I've seen late-race heroics from Stewart, Kurt Busch, and Kevin Harvick..but never once did I see a brake check, or the AI take me out because it wasn't aware of my position.

Also, it's REALLY nice to see the field spread out and take completely different lines. Starts are a mad house, because it's not just the 2-by-2 starts we're used to seeing. AI cars will scatter like cockroaches, with the start/finish line sometimes being 4 wide, before they settle themselves out to try to get into turn 1.

It really is quite impressive, AI-wise. But the rest of the game? $20 Indie title.

There's also the issue of too easy vs. too hard. I can drive it on simulation mode, but a fishtail due to an overcorrection is a death sentence on a controller. And on "Normal" mode, there's forced assists on that you cannot toggle (again, lack of options here). I can feel the car auto-braking and stabilizing, even though there's no option anywhere on tuning that. On simulation mode, it doesn't do that, and you have to compensate for the stagger while going straight. It's definitely faster, and easier to spin out, but raceable. I ran Dover on Simulation just to test, and still went from 40th to a top 20 in about 15 laps on a controller. But then I clipped the apron and lost it in the blink of an eye.

That's the thing...they seem to be doing their best Apple impression. "Here's what we're giving you, you're not changing crap. Then you'll get a new version with more features next year".

Meanwhile, they are piling on DLC with the worst possible marketing ever.

But if I was the reviewer on this, it would go something like this:

The foundation is one of the best ever for a NASCAR game (assuming your input device works). The handling model, while skewed heavily to the arcade side on normal, and tough to drive with a gamepad on simulation, is consistent and believable. The base that they've laid out is phenomenal with regards to going door to door and trading paint with your favorite NASCAR stars.

But everywhere else, it's woefully incomplete. Presentation lacks, there aren't even replays for a caution flag (or any sort of in-race replay, only post-race), your spotter basically says "Good job" on a win, and that's it.

Again, it's a cheap indie title with a really, REALLY solid (arcade on normal, and won't know for sure on simulation until my wheel actually works with it) gameplay base.

[pk500]

Thanks for the impressions, Terry. Another recent racing release that I'll skip, along with Assetto Corsa.

[TCrouch]

Yeah, this one hits it squarely on the head.

https://pretendracecars.net/2016/09/12/ ... evolution/

"To give credit where credit is due, the game looks fantastic and drives quite well with a gamepad after minimal tweaks, but this game simply wasn’t finished, and forcing consumers to pay $66 for something that would barely classify as an Early Access title after five years of mediocrity is inexcusable. Do not buy NASCAR Heat Evolution."

[Dave]

Thanks for the impressions (and link), I was on the fence about the title but this makes it a lot easier to pass on it for now. Bummer, hope the next one fills in the sizable holes.

[pk500]

You know NASCAR Heat Evolution SUCKS on the XB1 when Microsoft is willing to offer refunds:

https://pretendracecars.net/2016/09/18/ ... -xbox-one/

[Rodster]

You know NASCAR Heat Evolution SUCKS on the XB1 when Microsoft is willing to offer refunds:

https://pretendracecars.net/2016/09/18/ ... -xbox-one/

That is a trend that needs to continue. There are a lot of bad developers out there who don't give a sh*t about their customers other than taking their money without any recourse. This is why Steam is my go to way of buying games because of their no questions asked refund policy.

[TCrouch]

The problem is this...the game doesn't suck. The AI for 99% of the time you're on a track is the best ever seen in a NASCAR game. The controller crap was sorted out rather quickly on PC, and now it plays flawlessly there.

But it is as bare bones as it gets, and should have been given another 5 or 6 months and release about Daytona. And their "half a game for $60 and $22 of day 1 DLC" is pretty much a suicide note.

When out on track, though, it drives brilliantly. I've already sunk 17 hours into it, and when you get to dicing with the AI on a decently long race, it's as good as it gets.

[DChaps]

Once I got my wheel problems sorted out on the Xbox One, I have actually been having a fun time with Nascar Heat Evolution. The Challenges are sometimes frustrating, but when you beat one it is really rewarding. The game looks like a 360 game, and has frame rate issues, and as Terry said it is bare bones, but it's the most fun I have had driving stock cars on a console since Nascar Heat Dirt to Daytona. I really wanted to support these guys as I have followed many of the developers of this game for years so I don't mind paying the $60, but like Project Cars, they really hyped it up on the marketing side way over the top for what was delivered. I found an interview/review where they say that it's the most graphically advanced racing game on console surpassing all others. Wow, no. Hopefully they can fix up some of the issues, because there is a really good base there. Terry, have tried any online yet?

[TCrouch]

Yep, the first night I did a bunch of online just to see. There's no way to chat (voice or text) on PC, no way to restrict mode used (simulation and normal all in the same race), no setups loaded....just again, very bare bones. Not even any damage/cautions online, so it was not something I've tried since.

The connection was great, aside from a few guys who "wiggled" down the straight away. It wasn't a blip like in iRacing, but like they were warming their tires up at full speed. It was really weird, made it tough to pass, but overall the racing was fun...when you didn't get next to somebody who wanted to wreck you. I started having to do the whole "fake outside, brake early and watch them fly up the track to sideswipe me, while I make an over/under move and zip by on the inside"" move just to pass guys.

[Gangrel]

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/pla ... bcc258en02


Hey 10's, the Forza seat is $300 off at Best Buy for a few days.

[10spro]

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/pla ... bcc258en02


Hey 10's, the Forza seat is $300 off at Best Buy for a few days.

Thanks for looking after me. B-day is coming before Halloween, I may just bite. But to be honest, I thought they always had that price around $499, same with Amazon. I am looking at the magic number of $399 if at all possible around Black Friday.

Thanks Ace, happy thanksgiving man.

[Gangrel]

You're right. I looked at Costco after and it's the same. Typical "sale" at BB.

Happy turkey day!

[DChaps]

Sébastien Loeb Rally EVO - 70% off on Steam $14.99
Offer ends October 31

I never tried the demo or the full game due to all the bad reviews, however, Pretend Race Cars (some of the toughest and humorous race sim reviews on the internet), just re-reviewed the PC game after the recent patch release and it sounds like it is worth a look, especially at this price.

Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo is Finally Worth Buying - OCTOBER 22, 2016

https://pretendracecars.net/2016/10/22/ ... th-buying/

.....Now even though it was a Milestone product, and most people believed it should have been discarded after an hour of gameplay, at the time I forced myself to dive deep into career mode armed with little more than an Xbox 360 pad, and was delighted to discover that this had the potential to be a really f***in good game once all the bugs were ironed out. It’s got more cars than DiRT Rally, ridiculously difficult stages, and two separate single player campaign modes – both of which are unique in their own right. It was destined to eat up a lot of my time if Milestone ever released a patch for the damned thing.....

......Milestone finally got off their asses and released a patch to rectify many of the PC performance issues plauging a whole host of users, and I’m happy to report that my game stays locked at a buttery smooth 60 FPS aside from inclement weather stages, though I’ll chalk that up to my own hardware. In short, yes, Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo is no longer a stuttering pile of s***, and if you own the game on Steam yet haven’t touched it in months for this very reason, it’s now safe to do so......

.....I’ve dedicated my Friday afternoon to playing through the Loeb Experience portion of the game, and I’m extremely pleased to report that Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo lives up to the initial review I posted back in January. If you’ve played the ever-loving s*** out of DiRT Rally, yet shelved the title because you’re tired of running the same eight stages over and over again, Rally Evo should certainly be your next stop. I don’t want to mislead anybody and claim it features a stunning physics engine or a comprehensive mechanical damage system, but as a complete package I have no problem saying it certainly gives DiRT Rally a run for its money, and finally provides a satisfactory experience without the presence of ominous technical issues....

In fact, the Special Edition which features the Full Game + Season Pass with 4 DLCs and 24 events is $20.99

Don't know if the Xbox One or PS4 versions got new patches outside of these I could find from Feb 16, 2016, but the boxed Xbox One version is available from Amazon for $11.57

https://www.amazon.com/Sebastien-Loeb-R ... KFJF0?th=1

https://www.videogamer.com/news/sebasti ... -and-ps4-2

[Rodster]

Milestone has built a reputation for building shoddy games. Their latest patch probably is reactionary due to being able to get a refund on Steam which usually doesn't happen on the consoles.

[GB_Simo]

It'd be a bloody slow reaction, Rod, but given Milestone's reputation for non-existent product support, you might be right all the same.

I haven't played the retail version of SLRE on any format, so take what follows with a full shaker of salt, but the PC demo was good fun and completely playable with an XB360 pad. It wouldn't run at any kind of useful frame rate unless I turned off pretty much every visual detail, but I imagine the patch would help with that. I found the PS4 demo tricky with a pad and the XB1 demo almost impossible. Whether these demos are on the US storefronts, I'm not sure, but they're definitely still available on the UK store should anyone want to give them a go.

[pk500]

Received Assetto Corsa today for XB1. Played a few practice sessions and a race, so these are early impressions.

In a tidy box: Assetto Corsa is a mess. This table of rubbish was set for me by mediocre to bad reviews and feedback from sources I trust, including DSP cats. No one was wrong.

This game suffers from many problems. A list of filthy laundry:

1. The car count is weak. Additional cars are available through DLC. But it's irritating that all of the Japanese cars -- I'm a Mazda zealot -- only are available as DLC. Even with DLC, the number of available cars is weak compared to this game's closest competitor, Project Cars.

2. The track roster is weak. Classics such as Brands Hatch, Silverstone, Spa, the Nordschleife and Monza (including 1966 circuit) are present. But I didn't see a single North American circuit. Nothing from Asia, either.

3. The graphics are PS3 quality, at best. It's pretty disconcerting to blocks of pixels and sprites in a game released in 2016, but AC takes you back in time graphically. It's not nostaglic. It sucks.

4. The framerate is appalling. I don't know the difference between 50 and 60 FPS. But I know this game is running 30 FPS or less, and there are times it chugs like a slide show in some corners with heavy traffic. A bit too much draw-in and screen tearing, too.

5. The racing line either is all on or all off. There is no "corners only" option like in Project Cars or Forza 6. Not a biggie but still grating.

6. The force feedback lacks nuance for a game that supposedly features laser-scanned tracks. Project Cars offers far better tactile feedback of the track surface, although AC's trigger feedback under braking is sublime.

7. The racing AI is just as bad as everyone says. I'm running at Monza, preparing to enter the Lesmos, when two cars approach me. I hold my line to let them pass, and one of them just plowed into the back of me and spun me even though I gave him plenty of room.

Now, for the positives:

1. This game handles VERY well with a controller out of the box. A refreshing change from Project Cars. I probably spent three to four hours of tweaking to find a controllable setup with a controller in Project Cars.

2. The driving model is very good. You get a fine feel for weight balance and tire grip, with varying, predictable control. The Lotus 49 dances on a knife edge, as expected. The BMW Z4 GT3 sports car is far more pliable. Still, I think the Project Cars driving model creates a better impression of weight transfer and tactile sensations than AC. I don't think the gap between the driving model in AC and Project Cars is nearly as large as many say online. If the AC driving model rates 9 out of 10, then PC probably is 8 or 8.5 out of 10. AC's driving model is far more predictable, which I like.

3. The game features "Factory" assists settings, like Project Cars. Use this setting, and the car will be presented to you in the way it is/was to actual drivers. The Lotus 49 won't have ABS or traction control, while more modern cars will. Love this.

I bought Assetto Corsa for $17 used through Gamefly. I can't recommend it, even at that price. The driving model is very nice, but everything else in the game is so underdeveloped or bare bones that this probably will be nothing but a hot-lapping game until I trade it in, probably pretty soon.

AC on consoles reminds me of a dilapidated wooden outhouse built on a perfect concrete foundation reinforced with rebar. Great foundation supporting a dank sh*thouse.

[pk500]

I found some controller settings last night that have vaulted AC's driving model into the sublime category. The driving in this game is SO good, and the racing AI seems to be better as I understand it more.

But everything else ... man, if it only could match or even approach the driving model.