EA's broken game (MVP lefty bug)

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:52 am

This is abso-frickin-lutely atrocious.

Righties hit with a ton more power than lefties in this game. That had been the rumor, and it actually felt that way to me in game.

Well, you can prove it to yourself. Go to home run challenge, and match a righty up against a lefty. Let the CPU control both sides. Righties kill lefties in HR's hit, no matter who you use, what stadium, how you set the wind, etc.

I've found that if you even want it to be close, you need to do a 40 hr lefty against like an 8 hr righty, and the righty will still probably win.

Something is broken big time, and I'm going to try to see if I can get my money back.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:09 am

webdanzer wrote:This is abso-frickin-lutely atrocious.

Righties hit with a ton more power than lefties in this game. That had been the rumor, and it actually felt that way to me in game.

Well, you can prove it to yourself. Go to home run challenge, and match a righty up against a lefty. Let the CPU control both sides. Righties kill lefties in HR's hit, no matter who you use, what stadium, how you set the wind, etc.

I've found that if you even want it to be close, you need to do a 40 hr lefty against like an 8 hr righty, and the righty will still probably win.

Something is broken big time, and I'm going to try to see if I can get my money back.

Great! Maybe Bonds won't win Rookie of the Year in my franchise after all.

I did notice that I have yet to hit a homerun with Jim Edmonds and he usually hits 30+ every year.

Fuggin' EA...will they ever get anything right?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:34 am

Oh oh You guys are in trouble now.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:56 am

This is the first I've heard of this. I've had no problems with Helton or Walker and their power.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:21 am

I'll have to see about this one. Sounds kind of odd, but certainly not unique. HH2002 had a problem with lefties averages being much higher than righties (when user controlled), so it may be tolerable...

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:52 am

I was ready to ignore it as well, but it's actually really easy to see once you start doing side-by-sides.

I used guys from all around the league. Not only do righties get more HR's, they also get more avg distance.

You CAN hit HR's with lefties, sure, but the disparity is so great it's a joke.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:57 pm

Well that sucks. That would explain why I was getting absolutely destroyed in Home Run Challenge when I played the CPU with Thome. Maybe it's just a problem in HR challenge?

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:59 pm

Naples39 wrote:Well that sucks. That would explain why I was getting absolutely destroyed in Home Run Challenge when I played the CPU with Thome. Maybe it's just a problem in HR challenge?

Quite possible. Before I shelved that damn game, Griffey Jr had plenty of HR power for me.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:55 pm

Operation Sports has a good thread regarding this.

http://forums.operationsports.com/ubbth ... Post918120

And get a load of this recent entry:

Alright, just for kicks I setup a test of my own and the numbers I came up with were just slightly on the rediculous side.

*Note* I have been able to hit homeruns with lefties, but they are fewer and more difficult than a righty.

I edited the Twins, made every player in the lineup a switch hitter, and gave them all 99 contact and 99 power. I then edited two pitchers, one a lefty and one a righty, and gave them identical statistics for thier fastball.

I started an exhibition game, Twins vs Twins, with the righty starting for one, and the lefty starting for the other. I was in control of both teams, using the keyboard for the pitching team, and my controller for hitting. I set defense to fully automatic so I didn't have to run around after any ball that didn't manage to make it out of the park.

The game was played in the Polo Grounds (wanted to see how many I could get out to CF).

1st inning:
The lefty hitters lead off. I manage one measly homer with my superman lineup. Chalk it up to getting used to throwing the pitch with the spacebar and trying to hit at the same time.

Then the righties come up. I manage to hit 19 homeruns before I get sick of watching them fly out left and right. These were absolute bombs, most of them going straight away centerfield (490+ feet).

2nd inning:
Lefties back up. 2 homeruns. The "dive bombing" of the ball is incredible. It's like the ball has a massive amount of top spin on it. It looks like the batter crushes the ball, only to have it come up short.

Righties up again. Same story as the first inning, this time I hit 26 of them before getting bored with it and getting myself out.

3rd inning:
Lefties, more of the same, did manage to get 3 this time.

Righties, not much else to add, tack on another 12 before I decided the test was done.

Final tally...

Righties score 59 runs on 61 hits, 57 of those hits being homeruns.
Lefties score a pidly 9 runs on 12 hits, 6 of them being homeruns.

There is some kind of physics/engine issue at work here. Righties get under the ball and get loft, Lefties seem to "top it" and get that tennis ball top spin on it.

This doesn't make homerun hitting with lefties impossible, but the physics should be the same both ways.

I hadn't been seeing the roster problem yet in franchise mode, and since I usually only play (actually play all of the games) one season, the player progression thing wasn't personally that bad for me either.

This, however, completely shatters gameplay for me.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:09 pm

I've been going deep with Thome and Abreau, but I'm not sure a lefty CPU batter has gone deep on me yet. Meanwhile, guys like Kendall and Jack Wilson have taken me out of the park to the 400 feet to the opposite field. It's something I will keep my eye on over the weekend.

I'm so glad I didn't trade in High Heat 2004 for PS2 when I was offered a whopping $4 for it from EB (I usually sell on Half.com but figured I'd give EB a shot since it is a relatively low-value item). I have some updated rosters and I may just play that for my console baseball fix.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:16 pm

Those OS test results are brutal. I can overlook the franchise bugs because I play OOTP for my franchise stuff, and I can grit my teeth and bear the lack of walks for a while, but all lefties having crap HR totals compared to righties could be too much to bear.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:56 pm

I have been defending MVP feverishly so far, but if this is true then it's done. I'll have to run my own tests tonight and see what happens.

I can live with the walks, because I do get a few, and I have walked a couple with all the aids turned off. The CPU does steal, but not near enough. These I can live with. Knowing that lefties are handicapped is a killer.

-Matt

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:57 pm

Leebo33 wrote:Meanwhile, guys like Kendall and Jack Wilson have taken me out of the park to the 400 feet to the opposite field.

You should see some of the opposite field shots Jeter is making for me, yet the ball flops off Giambi's bat like a wet rag.

Alone, these anecdotes wouldn't amount to much, but when you start to pay attention and put it through some tests...

I think this may finally be the experience that keeps me from purchasing titles earlier than two weeks after release...

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:58 pm

I hear ya, Matt.

It puts it in the dumper for me, for sure.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:05 pm

I'm sure glad I traded MVP in when the value was still decent.

On a side note, the guy at Gamestop where I buy all my games was talking to me about how he's gotten about 5 MVP's in already on trade ins. That's not a very good sign.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:40 pm

I'm still looking to stick a fork in MVP, but I have to admit I'm just not seeing this lefty issue.

All tests at Coors on Pro level.

I tried putting Larry Walker against Bill Mueller (don't ask me why I chose those two, but they have comparable HR totals), me with Walker and CPU with Mueller, and I just beat him, but jacked about five or six.

For kicks, I tried it with Helton for the CPU and Nomar for me, and I again just beat him on pro. Nomar did jack 8 to Helton's 3, but it didn't seem that far out-of-whack - the distance was very close.

Finally, I took Helton and faced cover-boy Pujols for the CPU. It was very very close, but I edged the CPU with 6 dingers to 5.

I'd try CPU vs. CPU but it won't seem to let me in homerun challenge mode.

This is on the PS2 version, so maybe this is a problem with other platforms?

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:46 pm

Blublub wrote: I'd try CPU vs. CPU but it won't seem to let me in homerun challenge mode.

Pause the game as soon as you set it up, and change controller options.

I'd also say that you playing vs the cpu on PRO level isn't quite a fair test. Try judging yourself when you play the challenge with a right and then a lefty with similar power and avg numbers.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:34 pm

Okay, plot thickens. Lowell vs. Helton, at Pro Player. Stats nearly the same. All-Star level. With the CPU playing itself, Helton wins 5280 feet to 5130 for Lowell. BUT, Lowell had 7 HRs and Helton only 1.

Same setup, but with me using Helton: Lowell wins 5280-3867, 8 HRs to 1.

Same setup, but with me using Lowell: Helton wins 5280-4713, 2 HRs to 7.

So what to make of this? Well, there does seem to be something there in that, in this matchup at least, lefties hit the ball hard but always have fewer HRs. There was an immediate and noticable difference when I took Lowell - he could hit opposite-field HRs with ease, but Helton could not. Still, I don't know if this manifests itself in the game or not - I haven't really noticed a difference, and I know I've had dingers hit against me with lefties. I don't have any leftie power hitters on my fantasy draft team, so I can't tell you if it is different for human players.

Toper · Post by **Toper** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:54 pm

I'm not trying to doubt anyone's findings, but I gotta chime in and say that I am just not seeing this glitch for me or the cpu during normal play with adjusted sliders (I do not play homerun derby at all).

This is after logging in 2days, 16hours, and 45minutes of gametime (according to my ea bio). The breakdown for my hr hitters in my A's dynasty (using opening day lineups) sofar (all games played by me) is: leftys 32, righties 31.

Frankly, I'm just a little skeptical when it comes to how this "rumor" may have gotten started. It just seems too convenient, especially considering all the bashing that this game has been getting: first, there was the "no walks glitch". Then, when people started getting walks, there was the "no steals" argument. Now that people have begun to live with limited ai steals comes a "lefty bug"?

I mean, think about it...if this bug does exist, that would make it the first baseball videogame in history to ever have this problem. Why would the lefty/righty power settings be programmed any differently in this game than in any others before it?

Again, not trying to doubt anyone...just trying to help out with my own experiences with the game.

Toper

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:12 pm

Toper wrote:I'm not trying to doubt anyone's findings, but I gotta chime in and say that I am just not seeing this glitch for me or the cpu during normal play with adjusted sliders (I do not play homerun derby at all).

This is after logging in 2days, 16hours, and 45minutes of gametime (according to my ea bio). The breakdown for my hr hitters in my A's dynasty (using opening day lineups) sofar (all games played by me) is: leftys 32, righties 31.

Frankly, I'm just a little skeptical when it comes to how this "rumor" may have gotten started. It just seems too convenient, especially considering all the bashing that this game has been getting: first, there was the "no walks glitch". Then, when people started getting walks, there was the "no steals" argument. Now that people have begun to live with limited ai steals comes a "lefty bug"?

I mean, think about it...if this bug does exist, that would make it the first baseball videogame in history to ever have this problem. Why would the lefty/righty power settings be programmed any differently in this game than in any others before it?

Again, not trying to doubt anyone...just trying to help out with my own experiences with the game.

Toper

Did you forget about the lack of player progression or is that working for you too?

Toper · Post by **Toper** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:22 pm

Badgun wrote:
Toper wrote:I'm not trying to doubt anyone's findings, but I gotta chime in and say that I am just not seeing this glitch for me or the cpu during normal play with adjusted sliders (I do not play homerun derby at all).

This is after logging in 2days, 16hours, and 45minutes of gametime (according to my ea bio). The breakdown for my hr hitters in my A's dynasty (using opening day lineups) sofar (all games played by me) is: leftys 32, righties 31.

Frankly, I'm just a little skeptical when it comes to how this "rumor" may have gotten started. It just seems too convenient, especially considering all the bashing that this game has been getting: first, there was the "no walks glitch". Then, when people started getting walks, there was the "no steals" argument. Now that people have begun to live with limited ai steals comes a "lefty bug"?

I mean, think about it...if this bug does exist, that would make it the first baseball videogame in history to ever have this problem. Why would the lefty/righty power settings be programmed any differently in this game than in any others before it?

Again, not trying to doubt anyone...just trying to help out with my own experiences with the game.

Toper
Did you forget about the lack of player progression or is that working for you too?

Haven't finished a season yet, so I can't comment. Not looking forward to it if it does exist. Hopefully it's a "sim" problem, but I'm sure some nut out there has already user-played 162 and has seen it also. Anymore concerns about my gaming?

Toper

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:22 pm

I was getting ready to get rid of this" baseball" game but now I have to keep it just to test it out for myself so I can find out which side is full of crap.
Obviously someone isnt being truthful.

Thanks guys
Thanks alot

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:30 pm

GridIron_Assasin wrote:Obviously someone isnt being truthful.

I'm not so sure, seems like both sides may be partially right. At least that's the results of my "testing." In any event, I don't think any problem is worth losing sleep over. There are plenty of other things wrong with the game that are far worse.

Toper · Post by **Toper** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:31 pm

GridIron_Assasin wrote:I was getting ready to get rid of this" baseball" game but now I have to keep it just to test it out for myself so I can find out which side is full of crap.
Obviously someone isnt being truthful.

Thanks guys
Thanks alot

I don't think anyone's lying...everyone's just having different experiences with the game. I do think that this is something that's very tough to test once you know about it, because the tendency is to "try too hard" to hit one out when you're using a lefty.

I'm just gonna go with the stats that I've had before I heard about this...they seem pretty normal to me, so I'm dismissing this as a hoax. Everyone else should draw their own conclusions, and do what's best for them.

Toper

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:32 pm

I think Toper just isn't seeing the problem, not that anyone's not being truthful. At pro and lower levels it is easier to hit home runs with everyone, so the disparity is less noticeable. Also, whatever slider tweaks he has going on may lessen the problem as well. (who cares if lefties hit the ball 400' and the rightes hit 460' as long as it is getting over the wall)

Also, I don't know the A's lineup that well, but it's potentialy possible they have much better power from the left side...so his equal numbers stat actually does indicate a problem.

HR's certainly can be hit by lefties, but righties definitely have the advantage.

Again, the easiest way to see this is to have the CPU run side by side Home Run Challenges. You can't help but notice the problem there. I ran nearly two hours of this yesterday night, getting more and more pissed.

You could also do what the one guy I quoted above did, and edit teams so that they are exactly the same statwise in hitting except for the side of the plate from which they bat, and see if you can make out the difference.

Digital Sportspage

EA's broken game (MVP lefty bug)

EA's broken game (MVP lefty bug)

Re: EA's broken game (MVP lefty bug)