Winning Eleven 11/PES8 thread

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:14 pm

Jared,

Haven't seen any variety in the shots at all - they pretty much all appear to be worm burners (human and AI). Those that have the full version (street date appears to have been broken in Europe) haven't mentioned shooting as an issue so hopefully it was addressed in the final version.

Attacking AI is really something. Last night Henri was taking on 2 of my AI defenders around the centre circle. He darted diagnonally across the field, dragging us out of position, and then laid off a beautiful pass to his strike partner to break into the open and in on net. There's tremendous variety in the attacking AI play that is night and day above Fifa.

Hopefully the final version won't play at too fast a pace.

Best wishes,

Doug

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:00 am

I wish Konami would sign up with Valve and distribute the PC version via Steam.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:11 am

tried the demo last night....

I was surprised at the pace of the game but more so at the speed of the shots. Sometimes the play around the goal resembles pinball more than soccer. The game is fun, but it felt very different than any WE of the past.
Is this an attempt to make the game more arcade-like and accesable to casual gamers?

With FIFA getting such high praise this year and WE appearing to take ANOTHER step backwards, could this be the year FIFA actually catches up to WE?

Post by **Jared** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:35 pm

JackB1 wrote: With FIFA getting such high praise this year and WE appearing to take ANOTHER step backwards, could this be the year FIFA actually catches up to WE?

No.

Even though FIFA has improved, it is still well behind WE/PES in a lot of important ways, most importantly AI (which is soooo important in soccer games). And FIFA still has lots of gameplay issues that make the game awfully frustrating.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 pm

I'm not a soccer aficianado by any means but I loved the demo. Sure it was a little too fast but it was also very responsive and the animations were superb. I like how the AI didn't swarm all over you as soon as your player had the ball, giving you more space to be creative and making it easier for you to control the pace of the game. Playing defense is easier too as your teammates seem to be in better position and the tighter controls make it easier for me to keep the AI from just dribbling around me at will. It's a definite must buy for me.

fanatic · Post by **fanatic** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:43 pm

Is it 100% confirmed that the NA version won't be released earlier than normal this year? Seems strange that they would release the demo here but not send the final game over for another 4 months.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:13 pm

fanatic wrote:Is it 100% confirmed that the NA version won't be released earlier than normal this year? Seems strange that they would release the demo here but not send the final game over for another 4 months.

Konami originally announced a "winter 2007" release in NA, and many on internet began to speculate that meant this December. About a month ago however, Konami then went out of their to way to stop that speculation, and changed the release date to "spring 2008."

I agree that it is very odd to release a demo 4+ months before release. I think Jared put it best - if it was any company other than Konami it would indicate an earlier release, but with Konami who knows. Until I see something firm I am not getting my hopes up for an early NA release.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:04 pm

Good review of PES 2008 for the PS3 - it's clear that even the biggest PES fans are getting absolutely fed up with the lack of features.

http://www.winningelevenblog.com/

Scroll down for the review.

Best wishes,

Doug

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:32 pm

I've put in more time with the demo, mixing it with mirror games of FIFA, and I have to say, if the demo is indicative of the final product, I'm passing. The gameplay feels absurd. I can't think of another word for it. The speed is outrageous, the ball physics aren't particularly good, the players are all running on rails, there are WAY too many instances of slowdown, and as someone else noted, the play around the goal feels like pinball. It also looks like a PS2 game, which is something I would be willing to overlook if the gameplay was perfect, but the gameplay in this demo doesn't come close to perfect.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:41 pm

I played the 360 demo after getting a few quality games of FIFA 08. Once I switched to the PES 2008 demo I must admit that it did play a little quicker but it wasn't at a blistering speed. I liked the demo and it does some things better than FIFA and vice versa.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:16 pm

Some of you find the speed of the game fast, some just right. I don't play with the speed burst at all, so I don't have issues with speed, yes it's a bit quicker than Fifa but overall it feels like soccer and the AI doesn't fall asleep as some games in Fifa. The engine of the gameplay is what keeps this title going. If I have to pick a disappointment so far, it's the average graphics.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:42 am

dougb wrote:Good review of PES 2008 for the PS3 - it's clear that even the biggest PES fans are getting absolutely fed up with the lack of features.

http://www.winningelevenblog.com/

Scroll down for the review.

Best wishes,

Doug

"For many years now Brackley and Brooking have been the two guys in the PES commentary booth, so it’s very sad to see them go."

Hmmm...he has to be the only person in the universe "sad to see them go."

I still enjoy this year's FIFA, but I have to admit it's just lacking something still in the PES demo. I can't really put my finger on it, but it's impossible to ignore. It has something to do with PES' greater difference between players and sides, but that's not all of it. It just feels more "organic" to me. You still have the feeling that anything could happen at any time, and I really don't get that in FIFA, even this year's vastly improved version.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:35 am

More organic definitely - it's the integration of the gameplay inputs, animations, and AI that still set it above Fifa. Well, if a game is going to have one thing going for it above all it should be gameplay! It's the only sportsgame that has me coming back for more, year after year. Occassionaly I feel a little burned out on Winning Eleven but it only takes a short break before I'm back playing the game.

The lack of ambition that Konami display with the game outside Japan is extremely frustrating. From the poor audio scripts, to the lack of licenses, to the limited editing options, and finally the lack of decent real league options, the game is severely hindered by a lack of polish on the non-gameplay elements. Reading through some of the interviews it is quite clear that the team making the game could do with more help - particularly given that they're supporting a wide variety of formats. If the Fifa team keep getting closer with the gameplay in their product Konami could well be on the outside looking in.

Get off your asses Konami!

Best wishes,

Doug

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:56 am

dougb wrote:The lack of ambition that Konami display with the game outside Japan is extremely frustrating. From the poor audio scripts, to the lack of licenses, to the limited editing options, and finally the lack of decent real league options, the game is severely hindered by a lack of polish on the non-gameplay elements. Reading through some of the interviews it is quite clear that the team making the game could do with more help - particularly given that they're supporting a wide variety of formats. If the Fifa team keep getting closer with the gameplay in their product Konami could well be on the outside looking in.

Get off your asses Konami!

Best wishes,

Doug

I also read all those Seabass interviews recently, where he basically apologizes that this year's game isn't better. It was pretty shocking when he said the game is basically made by the same 6 people since SNES. That would certainly explain the lack of new features year to year, but it's pretty cold comfort to say next year's version will have massively improved graphics, many new stadiums, etc. Sounds to me like Seabass himself is very talented and made a great core game, but isn't much of a program manager and was afraid to delegate responsibility as is necessary to put together a large scale video game.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:08 am

Naples39 wrote:
dougb wrote:The lack of ambition that Konami display with the game outside Japan is extremely frustrating. From the poor audio scripts, to the lack of licenses, to the limited editing options, and finally the lack of decent real league options, the game is severely hindered by a lack of polish on the non-gameplay elements. Reading through some of the interviews it is quite clear that the team making the game could do with more help - particularly given that they're supporting a wide variety of formats. If the Fifa team keep getting closer with the gameplay in their product Konami could well be on the outside looking in.

Get off your asses Konami!

Best wishes,

Doug
I also read all those Seabass interviews recently, where he basically apologizes that this year's game isn't better. It was pretty shocking when he said the game is basically made by the same 6 people since SNES. That would certainly explain the lack of new features year to year, but it's pretty cold comfort to say next year's version will have massively improved graphics, many new stadiums, etc. Sounds to me like Seabass himself is very talented and made a great core game, but isn't much of a program manager and was afraid to delegate responsibility as is necessary to put together a large scale video game.

I'd agree with your assessment but there's also the curious bit about how much more feature rich (from talking to Macca) are the J-League versions release in Japan. It really looks like the versions released outside of Japan are pretty much afterthought - we'll do it as we can pick up a good amount of additional income but the only version we really care about corporately is the one released in Japan. Japanese culture has a reputation for being a bit insular (auto companies excepted) and I wonder how the Japanese version compares in terms of resources.

If we ever married up Fifa and PES/Winning Eleven the result would likely be mindblowing. EA have tried to do that somewhat by copying many of the things from the winning eleven series. I'm not sure if they'll be able to manage the physics and AI though. I'm hard pressed to think of a single EA sports game with really good ball physics in it.

Best wishes,

Doug

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:25 pm

Macca00 wrote:I've pre-ordered the PS3 version today from game.co.uk ......now I need to get a PS3 to play it on.

Might want to hold off on that new PS3. Apparently the game runs like ass on PS3.

What's most disappointing about PES 2008 on PS3 is that if it wasn't crippled by its technical problems, it would one of the best Pro Evolution Soccer games ever made...PES fans can forgive the poor graphics, the God-awful music, the embarrassing presentation and lack of licensed teams, because the core of the game is so mind-bogglingly brilliant. PES fans have been doing this for so many years, that they even forgive the odd bit of slowdown, too. But, I'm afraid to say, PES 2008 on PS3 is unforgivable.

http://www.pro-g.co.uk/ps3/pes7/review-2.html

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:28 am

Naples39 wrote:
Might want to hold off on that new PS3. Apparently the game runs like ass on PS3.

Yeah but I can still play a plethora of quality PS3-exclusive games like...... erm ......Warkhawk?

I'm a soccer-gaming whore so I'll still be getting it - crap framerate and all. Thanks for the heads-up, though.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:03 pm

Yikes,

Looks like we might actually be lucky that the North American version is being released in February. Tons of bugs and utterly bizarre design decisions and omissions. Between the Benny Hill on-line experience, the utterly insane inability to manually control kit colors in Master League matches, the horrific background music, and a rather uptempo gameplay experience - it might take them that long to work out all the bugs and release something decent.

We'll soon get a first hand look at what all the commotion has been about.

Best wishes,

Doug

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:06 pm

dougb wrote:Yikes,

Looks like we might actually be lucky that the North American version is being released in February. Tons of bugs and utterly bizarre design decisions and omissions. Between the Benny Hill on-line experience, the utterly insane inability to manually control kit colors in Master League matches, the horrific background music, and a rather uptempo gameplay experience - it might take them that long to work out all the bugs and release something decent.

We'll soon get a first hand look at what all the commotion has been about.

Best wishes,

Doug

Uhh, what company do you think you are a dealing with. It will be exactly the same game, warts and all.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:40 pm

Sounds like JRod is slowing turning into an EA shill.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:51 pm

JRod wrote:
dougb wrote:Yikes,

Looks like we might actually be lucky that the North American version is being released in February. Tons of bugs and utterly bizarre design decisions and omissions. Between the Benny Hill on-line experience, the utterly insane inability to manually control kit colors in Master League matches, the horrific background music, and a rather uptempo gameplay experience - it might take them that long to work out all the bugs and release something decent.

We'll soon get a first hand look at what all the commotion has been about.

Best wishes,

Doug
Uhh, what company do you think you are a dealing with. It will be exactly the same game, warts and all.

Hmm...Don't remember ever not being able to manually set kits so I don't end up with two teams playing in white. To be fair, every year there's quite a bit of criticism of the game from long time players - seems to even out after a while. But I get the sense that there is a lot more anger this year than usual. We'll see in the next few days as it goes to general release in England what the reaction is.

I hope the game is good - but some of the things I'm reading have me worried.

Best wishes,

Doug