OT: New Music?

[pk500]

"Obtained" the new Smashing Pumpkins. first impression are that it is really "blah" and a bit boring.

I'll have to give a few more listens.

Exactly the way I felt about the new Ryan Adams and Beastie Boys records. Adams sounds like he's covering himself, and I have a lot of DJ and producer mix stuff that's more interesting than the Beastie's "Mix Up."

Your mileage may vary!

Take care,
PK

[greggsand]

"Obtained" the new Smashing Pumpkins. first impression are that it is really "blah" and a bit boring.

I'll have to give a few more listens.

That whole thing is a joke. Who exactly are the "reunited pumpkins" anyway? It's basically another crap Corgan solo album with Jimmy on drums.

Most people think of a reunion has having the band 'back together again', not 'me and one of the other dudes'...

[Phototropic]

"Obtained" the new Smashing Pumpkins. first impression are that it is really "blah" and a bit boring.

I'll have to give a few more listens.

That whole thing is a joke. Who exactly are the "reunited pumpkins" anyway? It's basically another crap Corgan solo album with Jimmy on drums.

Most people think of a reunion has having the band 'back together again', not 'me and one of the other dudes'...

I can't disagree on the "reunion" but it sounds nothing like his last solo project. I couldn't stomach any of those tracks. So far I'd say it's better than I expected, but not as good as their classics.

[pk500]

Got my mitts today on the solo debut by Jason Isbell, formerly of the Drive-By Truckers, one of my favorite bands.

"Sirens of the Ditch" is a damn good album. For those expecting to hear "Decoration Day" or "Never Gonna Change," two Isbell gems from DBT, you're going to be disappointed. This is a different-sounding album, with more pop-folk sensibility and less grime and sludge than DBT.

But this record still touches upon Southern issues and has a Southern "feel" like DBT and has some really strong lyrics and music.

I'm really digging it.

Take care,
PK

[Brando70]

Got my mitts today on the solo debut by Jason Isbell, formerly of the Drive-By Truckers, one of my favorite bands.

"Sirens of the Ditch" is a damn good album. For those expecting to hear "Decoration Day" or "Never Gonna Change," two Isbell gems from DBT, you're going to be disappointed. This is a different-sounding album, with more pop-folk sensibility and less grime and sludge than DBT.

But this record still touches upon Southern issues and has a Southern "feel" like DBT and has some really strong lyrics and music.

I'm really digging it.

Take care,
PK

Cool, PK, I'll have to pick that up. He wrote some of the best songs for DBT.

I can't remember if it was mentioned in this Tolstoy-sized thread, but I've been digging the new Dinosaur Jr album Beyond. The guitar work is really good and the songs are pretty inspired. It's got a bit of a flat, compressed sound to the recording which I don't care for, but the songs are good enough to overcome it.

I also found out Neko Case is playing in my new UP home town over labor day weekend. Time to buy a zoom lens for the camera

[pk500]

I also found out Neko Case is playing in my new UP home town over labor day weekend. Time to buy a zoom lens for the camera

Get an X-ray lens so you can verify that the carpet matches the fiery drapes.

Take care,
PK

[Leebo33]

So far I'd say it's better than I expected, but not as good as their classics.

Yeah, I wasn't too fond of pre-release tracks but the whole album is OK. It's not as bad as I expected. I don't hate any of the songs and there are sections of songs that I really like. Just when I get ready to forward through a song due to stupid lyrics ("we are starz?" please) there's something that stops me. I can see it being the type of album I listen to often for a month or two and then a few times a year after that just because I'm a Pumpkins fan.

[sfz_T-car]

I also found out Neko Case is playing in my new UP home town over labor day weekend. Time to buy a zoom lens for the camera

Get an X-ray lens so you can verify that the carpet matches the fiery drapes.

Take care,
PK

On that note, new New Pornographers album Challenger has leaked. Haven't listened enough to form an opinion yet.

[Phototropic]

So far I'd say it's better than I expected, but not as good as their classics.

Yeah, I wasn't too fond of pre-release tracks but the whole album is OK. It's not as bad as I expected. I don't hate any of the songs and there are sections of songs that I really like. Just when I get ready to forward through a song due to stupid lyrics ("we are starz?" please) there's something that stops me. I can see it being the type of album I listen to often for a month or two and then a few times a year after that just because I'm a Pumpkins fan.

I had the exact same reaction. "We are ...STARZ!" I was about to skip when the heavier section came in which i enjoy quite a bit. I feel the same about the monthly listen...my initial reaction was to pick it up, but now I don't think it will have much longevity.

[pk500]

Really digging the new Spoon album, "Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga."

Damn, this is one tight rock band. There are a lot of interesting arrangements in these tunes, but none of them feel out of place or excessive.

Take care,
PK

[Feanor]

That whole thing is a joke. Who exactly are the "reunited pumpkins" anyway? It's basically another crap Corgan solo album with Jimmy on drums.

Most people think of a reunion has having the band 'back together again', not 'me and one of the other dudes'...

Total nonsense. The Pumpkins were always mainly about Corgan since he wrote 99% of the songs and was the singer of 99% on them. And of the other three members, Jimmy was easily the most talented musician.

If you can't call them the Smashing Pumpkins now, could you call them that on Siamese Dream where Jimmy kept going missing on drug benders and Corgan re-did the other band members tracks? Or on Adore where Jimmy was totally absent? What about Machina when D'Arcy had left to do drugs and hang around with Mickey Rourke? Rather than worry about who's in the band, just listen to the music and decide if it's good or not.

Btw, The Empty Sea by Zwan is probably my favourite Billy Corgan song. They only ever played it live, but if you're a fan of the guy's music, try and find it for download.

[greggsand]

That whole thing is a joke. Who exactly are the "reunited pumpkins" anyway? It's basically another crap Corgan solo album with Jimmy on drums.

Most people think of a reunion has having the band 'back together again', not 'me and one of the other dudes'...

Total nonsense. The Pumpkins were always mainly about Corgan since he wrote 99% of the songs and was the singer of 99% on them. And of the other three members, Jimmy was easily the most talented musician.

If you can't call them the Smashing Pumpkins now, could you call them that on Siamese Dream where Jimmy kept going missing on drug benders and Corgan re-did the other band members tracks? Or on Adore where Jimmy was totally absent? What about Machina when D'Arcy had left to do drugs and hang around with Mickey Rourke? Rather than worry about who's in the band, just listen to the music and decide if it's good or not.

Btw, The Empty Sea by Zwan is probably my favourite Billy Corgan song. They only ever played it live, but if you're a fan of the guy's music, try and find it for download.

We (you and I) are talking about two different things. I was referring to the Live act, but nonetheless. Hey, the new music may be good (it's not, esp in the scope of the pumpkins library), but it's a not a "reunion" - just a marketing term. It's basically a reaction to corgan's 'post pumpkins' albums flopping commercially. A lot of people despise pitchfork, but they've been dead-on with this one.

I'd cringe if there was a ever Pavement 'reunion', and it was just Malkmus & Westy.

[Feanor]

I dunno, if the Stones had broken up in 1970-something and then got back together in 1990-something with Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and a bunch of new dudes then I'd say that would qualify as a reunion.

[EZSnappin]

I dunno, if the Stones had broken up in 1970-something and then got back together in 1990-something with Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and a bunch of new dudes then I'd say that would qualify as a reunion.

Yeah, but the Pumpkins "reunion" is more like Mick and Charlie Watts getting together with random session men 5 years after the ignominious "Harlem Shuffle"; good for them, but not really the same thing.

Nobody would have cared if Billy hadn't made such a big deal of delineating his post-Pumpkins output from the prior band. If he had decided to form a new band with Jimmy and call it "Billy's Chicken Shack" (Jimmy's shack being already taken) or what-have-you, people wouldn't be hammering him for what is obviously a commercial ploy. The Pumpkins name has cache that Zwan or the aforementioned Chicken Shack surely don't. He'll sell twice as many albums even if it isn't any good, which seems to be the consensus opinion.

[greggsand]

I dunno, if the Stones had broken up in 1970-something and then got back together in 1990-something with Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and a bunch of new dudes then I'd say that would qualify as a reunion.

mmm perhaps, considering (nearly) every song in the stones catalog is jagger/richards. Take a look at the writing credits in the pumkins catalog, mostly "Corgan" w/ a few Corgan/Iha's sprinkled in. Ain't many 'chamberlins'.... So yeah, "corgan" is THE pumpkins - then why a "solo" album - then back to the "pumkins" again? Ask his Booking Agent.

That said, a stones "reunion" without charlie watts would be a fraud.

When the hell is there gonna be a Pavement reunion anyway??

[Brando70]

The Pumpkins label makes as much sense as keeping the Guns N Roses label when Fat Axl is the only guy left. You could argue that Velvet Revolver has more right to be called GNR.

It's one thing when a band breaks up, then all or most decide they want to make music together again (like Dinosaur Jr or even Jane's Addiction). It's another when it seems to be purely about marketing because the singer's post-band commercial success was pretty spotty. Corgan was always the driving force behind the band, but it seems odd in that case that he "broke up" the band. Imagine Trent Reznor disbanding Nine Inch Nails, then reforming it. That would make as much sense as Chewbacca hanging out with Ewoks.

[Feanor]

You guys are way off base. Nobody minded that the Pumpkins were still called the Pumpkins when D'Arcy let almost a decade ago or when Jimmy was missing in the mid 90's, but now they can't fairly be called the Pumpkins because James Iha doesn't want to play guitar? That's just silly, unless you're Iha's mom.

Of course using the SP name is partly a commercial decision, but so what? No one has to buy the record if they don't like the music, or even if they do.

@ Brando: Corgan claims that it was Iha broke up the band in as much that he didn't want to be in it anymore. And obviously he still doesn't!

[pk500]

It's not new music, but here's Nirvana's hot, 27-song set from the 1992 Reading Festival in the UK:

http://th2001.asterix.free.fr/%23/audio ... val%20'92/

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Reunited Squeeze sounding good at impromptu acoustic gig in advance of reunion tour:

http://thattruncheonthing.blogspot.com/ ... -cats.html

Oh, wait: There's no Paul Carrack. Can I call Squeeze reunited? Of course I can -- it's Difford and Tillbrook.

Take care,
PK

[Brando70]

You guys are way off base. Nobody minded that the Pumpkins were still called the Pumpkins when D'Arcy let almost a decade ago or when Jimmy was missing in the mid 90's, but now they can't fairly be called the Pumpkins because James Iha doesn't want to play guitar? That's just silly, unless you're Iha's mom.

Of course using the SP name is partly a commercial decision, but so what? No one has to buy the record if they don't like the music, or even if they do.

@ Brando: Corgan claims that it was Iha broke up the band in as much that he didn't want to be in it anymore. And obviously he still doesn't!

Feanor, that's true, and I don't begrudge anybody who buys the new record. I just think it's a little odd that Corgan "reformed" the Pumpkins when he more or less was the creative force behind it. He could have kept using the name all along.

The Guns N Roses example is much more ridiculous because there were four people who really made that band what it was (Axl, Slash, McCagan, and Izzy Straddlin). And there have definitely been much more ridiculous examples of this sort of thing: Pink Floyd without Roger Waters, Townsend and Daltrey touring as The Who, the 187 people who have been in Yes, etc.

[sfz_T-car]

Reunited Squeeze sounding good at impromptu acoustic gig in advance of reunion tour:

http://thattruncheonthing.blogspot.com/ ... -cats.html

Oh, wait: There's no Paul Carrack. Can I call Squeeze reunited? Of course I can -- it's Difford and Tillbrook.

Take care,
PK

No Jools, no Gilson Lavis.

[pk500]

OK, here's a hypothetical: What if Wilco broke up, and then Tweedy reunited it after a year or two without any of the current band members?

Considering that bassist John Stirratt is the only original member of Wilco besides Tweedy in the current lineup, would that reformed Wilco still be Wilco?

Band members leave or are fired all the time, and the band is still the band. Van Halen was still Van Halen without David Lee Roth (even if it did suck).

Why are bands that break up and reunite held to different standards than bands that stay together yet have a revolving door of members?

Again, look at Wilco. It started in 1995 with this lineup:

Jeff Tweedy
John Stirratt
Ken Coomer
Max Johnston
Jay Bennett

Since then, Bennett, Coomer and Johnston have left or been fired, and Leroy Bach also came and went.

The current lineup is:

Jeff Tweedy
John Stirratt
Glenn Kotche
Nels Cline
Pat Sansone
Mikael Jorgensen

So does that not make the 2007-circa band Wilco?

You say it's ridiculous that Daltrey and Townshend -- by far the most visible part of The Who -- tour as The Who. But what makes a reunited Who any different than the metamorphosis of Wilco, especially when The Ox and Moonie are dead?

Would it be ridiculous for Zeppelin to reunite without Bonzo? Then again, a Beatles' reunion with just Macca and Ringo WOULD be ridiculous. And Axl's Lazarus act with G 'N R is a joke.

What's the cutoff, the parameter, for when a reunited band no longer is that band?

This is a very interesting discussion, boys.

Take care,
PK

[sfz_T-car]

The 2007 versions of Sting, Copeland and Summers barely qualify as the Police anymore.

[greggsand]

OK, here's a hypothetical: What if Wilco broke up, and then Tweedy reunited it after a year or two without any of the current band members?

Considering that bassist John Stirratt is the only original member of Wilco besides Tweedy in the current lineup, would that reformed Wilco still be Wilco?

Band members leave or are fired all the time, and the band is still the band. Van Halen was still Van Halen without David Lee Roth (even if it did suck).

Why are bands that break up and reunite held to different standards than bands that stay together yet have a revolving door of members?

Again, look at Wilco. It started in 1995 with this lineup:

Jeff Tweedy
John Stirratt
Ken Coomer
Max Johnston
Jay Bennett

Since then, Bennett, Coomer and Johnston have left or been fired, and Leroy Bach also came and went.

The current lineup is:

Jeff Tweedy
John Stirratt
Glenn Kotche
Nels Cline
Pat Sansone
Mikael Jorgensen

So does that not make the 2007-circa band Wilco?

You say it's ridiculous that Daltrey and Townshend -- by far the most visible part of The Who -- tour as The Who. But what makes a reunited Who any different than the metamorphosis of Wilco, especially when The Ox and Moonie are dead?

Would it be ridiculous for Zeppelin to reunite without Bonzo? Then again, a Beatles' reunion with just Macca and Ringo WOULD be ridiculous. And Axl's Lazarus act with G 'N R is a joke.

What's the cutoff, the parameter, for when a reunited band no longer is that band?

This is a very interesting discussion, boys.

Take care,
PK

That's kind of a silly proposal. Tweedy has talked openly about Wilco being a rotating "ever evolving" band. In 1998, he even referred to it as a "project". So, we'd have to imagine tweedy breaking-up Wilco? That's a stretch. Remember, when he kicked out Jay Bennett? He told Jay: "A circle can only have one center". You could argue what "old" line-up would get u the most "hyped". AM line-up baby!

Had a near identical discussion w/ a writer at the Police concert. Sting's been playing old Police tunes for years in his solo shows. Would Sting be able to sell out Dodger Stadium, Staples Center, & The Pond in the same week. No way, but add the two 'support dudes' (although I was always a copeland fan first!) and BAM nearly 100,000 tickets sold over 3 days.

Sometimes there just an intangible with certain bands & reunions...

[pk500]

So if Tweedy did three or four consecutive solo albums without any intervening Wilco stuff, that's only putting Wilco "on hiatus," especially if there's no official announcement or Tweedy's acknowledgment that the band has broken up?

Again, a hypothetical. And I know Tweedy has called Wilco an ever-evolving band. But it's interesting how the front man of one band could -- and I emphasize COULD -- put a band on the shelf as long as a band that has broken up, but the band "on hiatus" wouldn't be considered a break-up. Some nice semantic slicing there.

Interesting discussion, no doubt. And some bands do have those intangibles, as you say.

Take care,
PK