OT: NFL offseason thread

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:37 pm

Rams take Tye Hill...CB outta clemson. They seem to have addressed a serious need and picked up and xtra 3rd round pick to boot...

very nice...

I like it so far...Ive liked there entire off season so far. Beginning with the firing of Martz its been all good.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:48 pm

As expected, Dolphins go DB as well. Good call on Jason Allen Cincy...that's the guy I wanted to fall, I just didn't want to jinx it. He'll be a damn good safety in the Saban defensive scheme.

CincyKid · Post by **CincyKid** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:02 pm

im just hoping winston justice finds his way to tampa or the best db on the board

and then the bengals could grab maybe gabe watson who marvin lewis seems to like alot jimmy williams or mathias kiwanka

would make me very happy

send me back some positive vibe db

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:10 pm

I'm just glad the Dolphins didn't pick Cromartie...I hate that guy.

CincyKid · Post by **CincyKid** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:19 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:I'm just glad the Dolphins didn't pick Cromartie...I hate that guy.

i agree pacman 2k6 comes to mind

EZSnappin · Post by **EZSnappin** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:46 pm

DivotMaker wrote:They just signed a free agent def end before this. Did it ever occur to you that the Texans defense was not as bad as they looked when you consider that the Texans offense led the NFL in 3 and outs? I read somewhere that the Texans defense led the league in time on the field. Your best defense is a good offense.

Championships are won with defense, so maybe the saying should be "The best offense is a good defense." Ask the Ravens. Did it ever occur to you that, as ESPN's Michael Smith wrote:

Houston gave up the most points in the league last year. Opposing quarterbacks put up MVP-type numbers against Houston: 65 percent, 24 touchdowns, 7 interceptions, a 100.0 efficiency rating. Unless Bush was going to play cornerback, too, he wouldn't have helped the Texans in that department.

(For more from Mr. Smith on Williams both pre- and now post-draft check here:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/c ... id=2419503 and here:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/c ... id=2426963

DivotMaker wrote:There is nothing good about passing on 3 of the top impact players (2 Heisman Trophy winners) who played in the past 3 National Championship games. There is NO justification for this pick in my mind. Charley Casserly needs to pack his bags for New York (NFL Head Office) asap. I am sure he can continue to make piss-poor choices for someone else.

Many scouts and observers consider Williams a potential "impact player" on defense, which, most observers also agree, is the Texans main problem. Any draft pick is somewhat of a crap shoot, and Heisman's are indicative only of past college success, not future potential. Otherwise we would have been waxing poetically over the retirement of Charlie Ward after his great NFL career and be basking in the twin suns of Eric Crouch and Jason White. You have every right to dilike the pick, but there is plenty of justification for the Texans management, which is all that matters.

DivotMaker wrote:I could not disagree more. If they knew they wanted Williams so badly, they should have traded down and picked up an additional pick or two later in the draft. The Texans just shot themselves in the foot with an M-16....

The Saints weren't going to give them anything because they would have been happy with either Bush or Williams. Drop out of 1 or 2 and they don't get Williams. End of story - no options. They had him barely behind Bush, and far ahead of the rest of the field. I think they could have dropped to third or fourth and drafted Ferguson, but neither the Titans or Jets were likely willing to offer enough to make it happen, especially considering that the Jets couldn't get New Orleans to bite on a trade either.

I don't want to start some sort of pissing contest with you, but other people here can disagree without insulting people's intelligence. "Did it ever occur to you" is not the way to start off stating your opinion, which is all any of us are doing on this or any other board. In responding to my post, both Dave and snaz16 made valid points disagreeing with my opinion without being rude about it. And, to respond to Dave's post, maybe Ferguson would have made more sense as Carr can't seem to stop getting nailed by the D. Bush wouldn't have helped with that either - that O line isn't opening holes, as Davis' bruised and battered body can probably attest.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:10 pm

I'm sure a decision like this, involving a $54 million contract, had the approval of the owner.

So really can the owner fire Casserly for this pick alone?

For all we know, the owner may have decided Bush was asking for too much.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:06 pm

I loved the Steelers' draft today considering their slot. Moving up to get Holmes probably cost them too much, but they had a bunch of compensatory picks to burn anyway. Then they traded their 2nd round pick for 2 3rd round picks and still ended up with their choice of all the safeties they would have taken in round 2 anyway. I'm also a big fan of the Willie Reid pick since I saw what he can do in the Orange Bowl vs. Penn State.

I know WRs usually take a couple years to develop, but the Steelers don't need Reid or Holmes to start next season. They just need them to be 3rd-5th WRs and return kicks. The Steelers still have a lot of picks tomorrow that they will probably use for DE/OL/RB/LB depth.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:21 am

The Chargers had yet another in a long line of shitty drafts. Then they wonder why they make the postseason once every other decade. Pathetic..

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:25 am

AJ Hawk is a solid pick for the Pack. He'll provide immediate help on defense.

It's impossible for a layman to tell whether Green Bay made out with all of Ted Thompson's shuffling of draft picks today. I think the real motivation behind some of them was to disguise the fact he was forced to give Javon Walker away at a bargain rate.

I originally didn't like the Charles Woodson signing but supposedly, it's structured so the first year is base money and not bonus, which gives Woodson his money up-front and the Packers an easy out if he doesn't deliver. If Woodson is healthy and interested, he's a big improvement over Ahmad Carroll.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:47 am

EZSnappin wrote: Championships are won with defense, so maybe the saying should be "The best offense is a good defense." Ask the Ravens. Did it ever occur to you that, as ESPN's Michael Smith wrote:
Houston gave up the most points in the league last year. Opposing quarterbacks put up MVP-type numbers against Houston: 65 percent, 24 touchdowns, 7 interceptions, a 100.0 efficiency rating. Unless Bush was going to play cornerback, too, he wouldn't have helped the Texans in that department.

There is no right or wrong in the opinions being expressed. They are what they are, opinions. I have always played with the philosophy that if your offense is on the field and they are scoring points, it is difficult for your opponent to be doing the same. Again, the Texans led the league in areas that support the thinking that their offense did not use up clock and score when it had the ball. Look at the stats of ANY defensive team that is on the field too long and you will see similar stats to what you posted. You could make an argument either way, but to pass on players of Bush and Vince Young's ilk, takes serious balls or serious stupidity. Basing my experience with Charley Casserly since he has been in Houston, serious stupidity it is.

EZSnappin wrote:Many scouts and observers consider Williams a potential "impact player" on defense, which, most observers also agree, is the Texans main problem. Any draft pick is somewhat of a crap shoot, and Heisman's are indicative only of past college success, not future potential. Otherwise we would have been waxing poetically over the retirement of Charlie Ward after his great NFL career and be basking in the twin suns of Eric Crouch and Jason White. You have every right to dilike the pick, but there is plenty of justification for the Texans management, which is all that matters.

I don't disagree with Williams being an impact player. However, the impact HE can have on a game is of far less than Reggie or Vince.

EZSnappin wrote:The Saints weren't going to give them anything because they would have been happy with either Bush or Williams. Drop out of 1 or 2 and they don't get Williams. End of story - no options. They had him barely behind Bush, and far ahead of the rest of the field. I think they could have dropped to third or fourth and drafted Ferguson, but neither the Titans or Jets were likely willing to offer enough to make it happen, especially considering that the Jets couldn't get New Orleans to bite on a trade either.

I guess we will never know for sure, will we? Look, the Texans have a horrendous history in the NFL draft. Yesterday, they passed on 2 of the best sure-fire prospects I have seen in years. Texans fans are PO'd. As a former NFL player, I am PO'd.

EZSnappin wrote:I don't want to start some sort of pissing contest with you, but other people here can disagree without insulting people's intelligence. "Did it ever occur to you" is not the way to start off stating your opinion, which is all any of us are doing on this or any other board. In responding to my post, both Dave and snaz16 made valid points disagreeing with my opinion without being rude about it. And, to respond to Dave's post, maybe Ferguson would have made more sense as Carr can't seem to stop getting nailed by the D. Bush wouldn't have helped with that either - that O line isn't opening holes, as Davis' bruised and battered body can probably attest.

Not interested in a pissing contest either. I stated my comment the way I did because it appeared that you had given the performance of the Texans defense in 2005 no consideration when you proclaimed how they could justify such a pick. If you consider that being "rude", so be it. Just calling it as I saw it at the time. I am angry with their pick because IMHO, if you have as MANY holes to fill as the Texans, you pick the BEST player on the board and work from there. I see FAR more upside with Bush/Young than I do with Williams. I also stated either here or in another thread that if Williams becomes the second coming of Reggie White, etc.. than I stand to be corrected. That being said, Mario Williams does NOT impact the Win/Loss column like Bush/Young could. The vast majority of NFL experts agree on that. If you want to hang your opinion on a few who are trying to spin this as the Texans are spinning it, then that is your choice. I respect your opinion, but I could not disagree more with it.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:04 am

wco81 wrote:I'm sure a decision like this, involving a $54 million contract, had the approval of the owner.

So really can the owner fire Casserly for this pick alone?

For all we know, the owner may have decided Bush was asking for too much.

No one knows for sure at this point. However, we have heard reports that Williams signed for $26.5 M guaranteed. Reports are that Bush's agent was asking for $30 M guaranteed. If they balked on $3.5 M, that looks cheap to me...

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:42 pm

I just want to know what the f*** Jerry Angelo is thinking. The Bears finished the season 29th in total offense and 2nd in total defense (1st for points against) and all 4 of their picks have been defensive players. The Bears could have used a tight end and WR but they don't address either need. Very frustrating. I'm sure the defensive players will be good since Angelo does pick good defensive players but if I'm Ron Turner right now I'd be ready to kick his ass.

Programmed2Kill · Post by **Programmed2Kill** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:25 pm

Amazing. All these 'Canes getting drafted and yet we could only muster up 9-3 seasons and looked pathetic on offense.

Two offensive playmakers in Sinorice Moss and Devin Hester went in the 2nd round. Moss was almost a first rounder and yet hardly got enough touches in all his years in Coral Gables?! Hester didn't even have a damn position and he was still picked in the 2nd. Coker and Co. couldn't get this man in the game?!?!?!

All that talent getting drafted. What the f**k is Coker doing?

Disgusting.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:27 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:I just want to know what the f*** Jerry Angelo is thinking. .

He doesnt think.
Isnt he the bozo who forgot to check the box and lost compensation on Bates and Holdman?...
How does this clown actually have a job?

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:29 pm

Programmed2Kill wrote:
All that talent getting drafted. What the f**k is Coker doing?

I'll trade you Coker for Dennis Franchione....

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:39 pm

Hester was drafted on potential...he didn't do sh*t last year at the U. The guy makes too many mental mistakes. Hell of an athlete, but just can't keep his head in the game. Had he gone back to the U, he would have had more experience and he probably woulda been a high draft pick next year. But he didn't...and that's not Cokers fault. Guy just couldn't stay on the field.

Gangrel · Post by **Gangrel** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:15 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:I just want to know what the f*** Jerry Angelo is thinking. The Bears finished the season 29th in total offense and 2nd in total defense (1st for points against) and all 4 of their picks have been defensive players. The Bears could have used a tight end and WR but they don't address either need. Very frustrating. I'm sure the defensive players will be good since Angelo does pick good defensive players but if I'm Ron Turner right now I'd be ready to kick his ass.

As a Bears fan in Ottawa Scoop, I have to agree. I was shocked when they traded their first round pick, then even more shocked when i looked this morning and found ALL D players were picked yesterday.

I guess the Bears are going to try to be the first team to score more points on D then on Offense.......

GameSeven · Post by **GameSeven** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:24 pm

FYI, EA has updated their Madden 07 page to include preliminary renders (think 06 CAPs on last-gen hardware) of the first round draft picks on their new teams.

http://www.easports.com/madden07/

-G7

Programmed2Kill · Post by **Programmed2Kill** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:53 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Hester was drafted on potential...he didn't do sh*t last year at the U. The guy makes too many mental mistakes. Hell of an athlete, but just can't keep his head in the game. Had he gone back to the U, he would have had more experience and he probably woulda been a high draft pick next year. But he didn't...and that's not Cokers fault. Guy just couldn't stay on the field.

But he could get on the field against LSU? Not against FSU...not against G'Tech...not even against Duke....but against LSU? Hmm.

Sorry, but I disagree...on all points.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:43 pm

Programmed2Kill wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Hester was drafted on potential...he didn't do sh*t last year at the U. The guy makes too many mental mistakes. Hell of an athlete, but just can't keep his head in the game. Had he gone back to the U, he would have had more experience and he probably woulda been a high draft pick next year. But he didn't...and that's not Cokers fault. Guy just couldn't stay on the field.

But he could get on the field against LSU? Not against FSU...not against G'Tech...not even against Duke....but against LSU? Hmm.

Sorry, but I disagree...on all points.

Well he was injured as well...the guy just will flame out in the NFL...he's not mentally smart enough to figure out coverages when he's playing WR and he's too much of a gambler playing CB. Disagree all you want, but I just go by what I see in every Hurricanes game he's played in.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:04 pm

Martz era is officilally over in StLouis. The Rams had a great draft. We wont know for sure for a few years but I liked it alot. The approach was perfect.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:35 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:I just want to know what the f*** Jerry Angelo is thinking. The Bears finished the season 29th in total offense and 2nd in total defense (1st for points against) and all 4 of their picks have been defensive players. The Bears could have used a tight end and WR but they don't address either need. Very frustrating. I'm sure the defensive players will be good since Angelo does pick good defensive players but if I'm Ron Turner right now I'd be ready to kick his ass.

That seems to be the prevailing opinion, but I'm not sure I agree. An overwhelming percentage of the blame for last year's offense falls on the situation at QB. Adding Griese was a quality move, and I don't think anyone wanted them to dip their toe in the young QB pool again this draft. This draft was incredibly weak for WR's, and with Bradley returning and Berrien showing improvement I didn't see an overwhelming need for a WR. I am surprised they didn't take a TE somewhere, but they might be looking to move the Oklahoma kid there.

The Bears really needed help around the periphery: special teams, DB, LB and DL depth and team speed in general. I think they did that. In a sort of perverted way, I like the Hester and Dvoracek picks because they're the sort of "non-character" guys with question marks and upside that the Bears never gamble on. I heard Hester interviewed this week and he came off like a guy who was lucky to make it to the room where the Wonderlich test was given.

Honestly, the Bears need a guy or two like this in the mix.

I think that Angelo identified the areas I mentioned as his targets, and I think he hit them. And trading down 15 spots or so to get an additional 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder in a draft like this was an excellent move.

vader29 · Post by **vader29** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:47 pm

Loved the Steelers picks filling their free agency losses with a receiver and safety in the early rounds. Also heard they were trying to get T. J. Duckett from Atlanta during the draft but Atlanta wanted a 3rd rounder in next years draft and the Steelers only offered a 5th in this years.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:48 pm

RobVarak wrote:I heard Hester interviewed this week and he came off like a guy who was lucky to make it to the room where the Wonderlich test was given. Honestly, the Bears need a guy or two like this in the mix.

Like I was saying...he's not smart enough for the NFL...at least anything outside of special teams where all you have to do is run like hell.