Stanley Cup Playoffs thread

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:09 am

Staying on top? The Wings' three Cups only have occurred in the last decade. Mess' six Cups all came within a decade, too. So I don't get this "Stevie has kept the Wings competitive for 20 years" bullsh*t.

And how you can't see that it's tough to lead an entirely different group of guys, with a different system, different coaches and in a different city to championships mystifies me. There's a comfort level with being in the same town for your entire career. You know the rink; you know the front office; you know the town; you're not walking into a dressing room where you don't know many of the guys and are responsible for leading them to the Cup.

Sorry, but that's tougher than staying with one team for your entire career and leading them to titles.

And you talk as if the Wings were Stevie and nothing else. Yeah, they weren't as stacked as the Edmonton teams of the 80s, but there still were some GREAT players on those mid-80s Red Wings' teams.

Take care,
PK

wabash97 · Post by **wabash97** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:40 am

OLN is a joke. There should be hay on the set.

Anybody watching the Calgary game when the fan ran down half a flight a stairs and put a thunderous check on the boards when players were scrumming for the puck? A nice moment. I took a long pull off a cold Canadian in tribute.

Canada looks like fun. And I bet the CBC didn't miss 15 minutes of the third period because one of their goats stepped on a power cord.

B

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:57 pm

pk500 wrote: Edmonton outhit and outskated the Wings through the first 2 1/2 periods. But all of that effort showed in OT, as the much older team skated much better and won all the battles for the puck.

Hmmm. I didn't watch the game until the OT but looking at the stats this morning and some highlights the Red Wings held a huge advantage in shots on goal, 31-11 at the end of the 2nd period. And based on highlights that I saw during the 1st two periods, I thought the Wings carried the tempo of the game.

And you're right pk. Probably Roloson's best game yet in an Oil uniform but I also thought the D played well too, blocking a lot of shots. That Lilja guy played great. Bad break on the winning goal.

pk500 wrote: Game 2 is vital.

True, ditto for all the teams that are down 0-1.

One thing I am impressed with the Wings is that they don't get rattled when they are down. That's where the experience shows, everyone seem to believe in themselves, there's no panic.

Take care,
PK[/quote]

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:07 pm

The Wings carried the first period with puck possession, which they do SO well., despite Edmonton's attempt to be very physical. The Oilers carried the second period with better forechecking and skating than the wings, disrupting the possession.

The grind of physical play in the first period and strong skating in the second really took its toll on the Oilers, as Detroit played possession in the third and the OT's and made the Oil look like the old, slow team.

These Wings are a damn tough nut to crack.

Take care,
PK

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:21 pm

See ya Sunday

.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:07 pm

I can't wait for the Flyers/Sabres game tonight!!! Its only 4 PM and I'm amped up!!

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:36 pm

Devils are up 2-1 with a little left to play in the 2nd. Go Devils!

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:01 pm

And just to make a rivalry outa this...

Please, the 80's Wings? Who did they have besides Stevie? Ciccarelli?. Comparing them to the Oilers of the early 80's, who had the best players at every position, is a joke.

The Oilers also had THE best goalie of the time in the prime of his career.
The wings won with an over the hill Vernon and Hasik, both of who had seasons above what everyone expected. How? I'd say the captain. Then they won a cup with OSGOOD? Are you kidding me?! Stevie elevated their game. That's the sign of a great captain.

Then there's the cup debate. So by the "more cups = better player" analogy, Ray Bourque was just average because he never won a cup until he, and get this, went to another team that was good. That argument doesn't mean squat in a team sport, especially hockey.

The argument was the best captain, and I judge that by who elevates the mediocre to play better. I give that to Stevie.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:38 pm

laurenskye wrote:And just to make a rivalry outa this...

Please, the 80's Wings? Who did they have besides Stevie? Ciccarelli?. Comparing them to the Oilers of the early 80's, who had the best players at every position, is a joke.

I was unclear. The mid- to late-90s Wings had a ton of talent. Not as much as the 80s Oilers, but then again, what team ever did?

laurenskye wrote:The Oilers also had THE best goalie of the time in the prime of his career.

Fuhr was a great playoff goalie. But he was not THE best goalie of his era. Dude only won the Vezina Trophy once, in 1988. I would say that for the 80s, Fuhr was the most consistently brilliant goalie in the NHL, at least until Roy's rookie year in 1986. But there were guys like Lindbergh, Hextall, Billy Smith, even Barrasso, who had better individual seasons. Don't forget that Fuhr split most of the regular season with Andy Moog, who was a damn good goalie, too.

laurenskye wrote:The wings won with an over the hill Vernon and Hasik, both of who had seasons above what everyone expected. How? I'd say the captain. Then they won a cup with OSGOOD? Are you kidding me?! Stevie elevated their game. That's the sign of a great captain.

And Messier didn't elevate the Oilers' game in 1990? The Oilers had two players with more than 72 points in 1989-90, Messier with 129 and Kurri with 93. Petr Klima was the team's fourth-leading scorer. Petr F*cking Klima! So the Oil wasn't as awash in talent that season as you'd like us to believe, yet they still won the Cup.

Why? Because Mess led them. He won the Hart Trophy that year as the Most Valuable Player in the league.

Did Stevie win the Hart any of the years he led the Wings to the title? Oh, that's right: I forgot -- Stevie NEVER has won the Hart.

Mess then went to the Rangers, won the Hart in 1992 and led a team that had about the same talent level as the Wings' Cup winners to the Cup in 1994 under IMMENSE pressure, way more pressure than the Wings ever experienced in their Cup runs. The Rangers' drought was 54 years, and the New York media is ruthless and relentless.

laurenskye wrote:Then there's the cup debate. So by the "more cups = better player" analogy, Ray Bourque was just average because he never won a cup until he, and get this, went to another team that was good. That argument doesn't mean squat in a team sport, especially hockey.

True. But when Mess has better numbers in every category, two Hart Trophies to Stevie's zero and twice as many rings, by what criteria are you calling Stevie a better player and better leader?

laurenskye wrote:The argument was the best captain, and I judge that by who elevates the mediocre to play better. I give that to Stevie.

Please. You make it sound like Stevie led the '74-'75 Washington Capitals (8-67-5!) to the Cup. Do the names Shanahan, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Larionov, McCarty, Kozlov, Murphy, Sandstrom, Fetisov and Konstantinov ring a bell? We're not talking Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs here. The Wings had a superb array of talent. Yes, not like Edmonton's supernova of the early and mid-80s. But it wasn't Stevie and a cast of third-line muckers and grinders. Those two Wings' Cup teams of the 90s were world-class in every regard except for between the pipes.

And you know what you're conveniently forgetting about the Wings' three Cups? The guy behind the bench. Scotty Bowman is the GREATEST F*CKING HEAD COACH IN NHL HISTORY, HANDS DOWN. Sather and Muckler were excellent coaches for the Oil during their Cups, but neither can compare to Scotty.

You're discounting Scotty's brilliance as a leader and tactician by giving all the credit to Stevie. Don't get me wrong -- Yzerman is one of the 10 best NHL players ever and a GREAT captain, in my eyes. I admire him greatly. But he's not Mark Messier.

Take care,
PK

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:49 pm

Larionov, Murphy, Fetisov? Players on their last leg. You only emphasise my point. Mcarty, Koslov? If they were so great why have they done nothing after they left the wings? Why was Lapoint highly regarded then did little after he left?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:58 pm

laurenskye wrote:Larionov, Murphy, Fetisov? Players on their last leg. You only emphasise my point. Mcarty, Koslov? If they were so great why have they done nothing after they left the wings? Why was Lapoint highly regarded then did little after he left?

Right. So I guess this lineup from the 1989-90 Oilers team that Messier led to the Stanley Cup will be enshrined as the greatest lineup of all time:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leag ... 11990.html

Do you see some of those names? Petr Klima? Joe Murphy? Mark Lamb? Steve Smith? Randy Gregg? Kelly Buchberger?

Then again, the Oilers did take three Wings that apparently didn't heed Stevie's leadership and got their names on the big mug that year -- Klima, Murphy and a young Adam Graves. The Oil got all that in the swap for Jimmy Carson and Kevin McClelland.

And if Murphy was on his last legs during the Wings' first Cup of the 90s, then why did the Wings trade for him late in the season from Toronto and keep him for another four seasons afterward?

The first Cup year was Larionov's second with the Wings. He stayed there for another three seasons, left for Florida for one, and then the Wings brought him back for another three seasons! Those last legs sure did last a long time in Detroit.

But yes, you're right about Fetisov. He was almost done when the Wings won their first Cup. Sort of like Raymond Bourque was with Colorado.

Fetisov never will get the credit he deserves because he spent his prime years with the Soviet Red Army team. But the guy was the greatest defensemen in the world in the 80s. I had the privilege of seeing the Red Army team in person on an exhibition tour in Buffalo in the late 80s, and it was a sight to behold.

Take care,
PK

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:29 pm

can't agree more about Fetisov. Greatest defenseman ever in my opinion.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:39 pm

laurenskye wrote:can't agree more about Fetisov. Greatest defenseman ever in my opinion.

I'd put him No. 2 all time, right behind Orr. Just a phenomenal player who never will get his due because his best years were in the Soviet Union.

Take care,
PK

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:29 pm

Pathetic officiating in the Flyers game. What a joke.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:35 pm

Diablo25 wrote:Pathetic officiating in the Flyers game. What a joke.

They have no control of the game. Looking for some fun later.

JackDiggity · Post by **JackDiggity** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:44 pm

PK, I'll make my point about why I pick Yzerman over Messier short and sweet. Steve has been loyal to Detroit. Period. He could have left for more money and maybe more Cups. But he didn't. He loves the Wings. And Wing fans love him.

Here's my point. Remember in the late 80's and early 90's when Stevie was scoring 50 to 65 goals a year? The man put up over a 100 points 6 years in a row. Then Scotty asked him to change his game from a scorer to a team leader when Fedorov started to gel. Yzerman didn't think twice. He became the ultimate team player and it paid off when he hoisted The Cup in 97,98 and 02.

I really couldn't give a s*** about him never winning the Hart Trophy. I am sure with his team first mind set he feels the same way. But when Fedorov won it I'll bet Stevie was the first to pat him on the back. That just the way he is.

On the other hand I was very happy to see Steve win the Conn Smythe trophy as the most valuable player of the playoffs of 98. He led the Wings to back to back Cups. In my mind that trumps the Hart Trophy anyday of the week.

Plus..............I AM A BIG f***in HOMER!!!!!!

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:00 pm

You guys are forgetting Guy Carbonneau....

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:23 pm

Quite the comeback by Colorado. Good -- I HATE the Stars!

Impressive first game by Montreal, too. I thought Montreal would upset Ottawa before the standings shuffled on the last night of the regular season. Looks like the Habs could be just as dangerous against the Canes.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:35 pm

Thank God I'm not a Sabres' fan. The TV situation for Buffalo for the playoffs is beyond f*cked up here in Syracuse.

The OLN broadcast of the Sabres-Flyers game tonight is blacked out because Syracuse is in Buffalo's playoff blackout area. That leaves the broadcast to the area broadcaster, which is the MSG Network, based in New York. MSG isn't showing the game because New York -- where most of its subscriber base is -- is outside of the Sabres' blackout area, and Big Apple-area residents can watch the game on OLN.

So Syracuse is in the black hole of NHL blackouts for Sabres' fans. I'm listening to the Sabres' Radio Network broadcast of the game on NHL.com, as no Syracuse radio stations broadcast Sabres' games. At least Sabres' radio/TV announcer Rick Jeanrette is one of the best in pro sports. Simply great.

A friend of my wife and I, the mother of one of my daughter's best friends, is a MASSIVE Sabres' fan. She must have been going ballistic right earlier tonight, probably driving around town to find a bar with the game while her husband stays home with their daughter!

Take care,
PK

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:36 pm

Holy s***...OT!! {grabs rosary}

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:39 pm

Bad news for Rangers' fans -- Jagr could be on the shelf:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=163566&hubname=

Bad for Oilers' fans: Moreau won't play tomorrow due to his strained groin. F*CK.

Take care,
PK

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:31 pm

Robert Esche is F'n unconscious...54 saves thru 3 periods and an OT. Unbelievable game. 2nd OT upcoming. This is a war.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:33 pm

Diablo25 wrote:Robert Esche is F'n unconscious...54 saves thru 3 periods and an OT. Unbelievable game. 2nd OT upcoming. This is a war.

Sure is...what a hit...wow...guy was literally knocked into next week...

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:35 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Diablo25 wrote:Robert Esche is F'n unconscious...54 saves thru 3 periods and an OT. Unbelievable game. 2nd OT upcoming. This is a war.
Sure is...what a hit...wow...guy was literally knocked into next week...

Yeah, Umberger was smoked. Payback is a b*tch. We need a win to snatch back home ice.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:43 pm

What a monster hit by Campbell on Umberger. Clean, crystal clear HIT. Low class fans cheering Umberger hurt was not a good scene. It'll be interesting to see how Philly reacts to that in OT.