HDTV/Gaming setup for cheap gamers!

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:55 pm

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp ... 0265591303

The picture looked like crap in the store next to the other models (most costing 2x-3x more), but the user reviews were so good on the Net (and a lot of those were written when it cost $1000-1200) that I decided to take a chance. So far I am very glad that I did. As long as it lasts, I think I will be very happy with the purchase.

The standard channels on Comcast Digital Cable looked fairly bad with the "fill" setting, but with "standard" looked just as good as my regular TV. I don't think it is the TV's fault though as the picture wasn't any worse than I see on some of my friends' more expensive TVs. I really think the cable picture quality in this area is horrible.

The high def broadcasts were absolutely amazing.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:47 pm

Leebo,

Have you had a chance to hook up the Xbox to it? Curious to know if there is any ghosting that can be see when playing a fast action game.

I see that it's only in 1080. Will that have any effect being that the 360 games are in 720?

How much was the warranty? LCDs seem to have a pretty expensive warranty on them.

Last but not least, there are no HDMI inputs. For some, this is an issue. Personally, I'm not a huge tv techie so I don't think would necessarily bother me.

I returned my "open box" 26" Samsung CRT this past weekend. While the PQ was great, I wasn't too enthused about owning a tv that had been on all day for months. Along with not having the manual nor the remote that came with it, I decided to return it. Plus, it was so incredibly bulky that it'd cost hundreds to find an Armoire to house it.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:05 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Leebo,

Curious to know if there is any ghosting that can be see when playing a fast action game.

I see that it's only in 1080. Will that have any effect being that the 360 games are in 720?

Last but not least, there are no HDMI inputs. For some, this is an issue. Personally, I'm not a huge tv techie so I don't think would necessarily bother me.

Ghosting could be an issue, but generally speaking the performance of these sets is inline with your computer monitor, so while it may blur a little with very fast moving items, the trade-off in space, progressive scan, and eye-strain is worth it. I don't here many PC gamers complaining about their CLD displays, even if they still lag behind CRT's in overall quality...

"1366 x 768 pixel resolution; accepts all major DTV signals, including 1080i, 720p and 480p, plus standard 480i "...
It's a fixed pixel display, so ALL incoming resolutions are scaled (via a very good Faroudja chip) to 768p. The XBox 360 signal will fit this set perfectly with minimal manipulation.

1 DVI-HDCP
The set includes a DVI input WITH HDCP (copy protection); the only difference between that and HDMI is that HDMI also carries audio, so you have to run 2 extra cables. Simple adapters or HDMI to DVI cables will allow HDMI components to be connected without issue, and with a pure digital video signal.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:14 pm

Thanks Sport! Just had a BB sales person put one aside for me.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:39 pm

Leebo33 wrote:http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp ... 0265591303

The picture looked like crap in the store next to the other models (most costing 2x-3x more), but the user reviews were so good on the Net (and a lot of those were written when it cost $1000-1200) that I decided to take a chance. So far I am very glad that I did. As long as it lasts, I think I will be very happy with the purchase.

The standard channels on Comcast Digital Cable looked fairly bad with the "fill" setting, but with "standard" looked just as good as my regular TV. I don't think it is the TV's fault though as the picture wasn't any worse than I see on some of my friends' more expensive TVs. I really think the cable picture quality in this area is horrible.

The high def broadcasts were absolutely amazing.

Welcome aboard, Leebo. Get ready to obsess over picture quality.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:52 pm

I tried NHL 2k6 on Xbox and it was fine. I will try more tonight. I was so amazed by the HDTV quality I wasn't even concerned about games. In fact, I was watching more of the Philly/NYG game than the Steelers because the Eagles were in HiDef.

The extended warranty was $159. I thought that was too much, so I passed. I only purchase extended warranties when they are cheap and/or the item has an extremely high chance of malfunction. I hope I don't jinx it, but I've saved well over $1,000 by not buying extended warranties over the years and I will just replace the TV if it breaks.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:00 pm

Generally speaking, I wouldn't recommend the extended warranty on a set of this type...

First, it's only $899, so the warranty is too much for the cost of the TV; if somthing should happen in 3 years, you'll probably be able to buy a replacement (either the same set on eBay or the latest model since costs will continue to come down) for only a little more than the warranty.

Second, LCD displays are pretty reliable. The biggest problem with them is "Dead Pixels" where an individual (or several) pixels will be 'stuck' on a certain color/state. This is part of the manufacturing process, meaning it shows up RIGHT AWAY, or likely not at all. So, inspect your set when you first power it on and look for dead pixels. Anything visible from standard viewing distance means you should exchange the set (or even if you can't see them and you're a perfectionist, exchange it anyway!).

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:06 pm

Leebo33 wrote: The extended warranty was $159. I thought that was too much, so I passed. I only purchase extended warranties when they are cheap and/or the item has an extremely high chance of malfunction. I hope I don't jinx it, but I've saved well over $1,000 by not buying extended warranties over the years and I will just replace the TV if it breaks.

Ditto. I have the same philosophy and figure that the thousands that I've saved over the years will be more than enough set aside if I do have something break outside of warranty (which is rare). Most stuff that's defective is going to show up very soon.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:32 pm

Quick question on the Westy 32". They had a 27" at the same price point, but was 1280 x 720. It seemed to have a much better picture quality. Am I missing something there?

Thanks. I'm ready to get this tv this evening.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:37 pm

Smaller displays usually look better when viewed at the same distance as a bigger display. When you're too close to the larger one, you might see some pixels or screen door effect (with LCD's).

Also, a 1366 x 768 display has to scale 720p signals where a 1280 x 720p display does not.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:14 pm

Just came home with the 32" Westy. Very nice tv. I obviously do not have an HD receiver hooked up to it. Just an old antenna so I'm not seeing the quality of the tv as of yet.

Leebo,

Can you tell me what settings you used to calibrate the tv?

Thanks.

p.s. This is going to be sweet for gaming!

AJColossal · Post by **AJColossal** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:55 am

sportdan30 wrote:Just came home with the 32" Westy. Very nice tv. I obviously do not have an HD receiver hooked up to it. Just an old antenna so I'm not seeing the quality of the tv as of yet.

Leebo,

Can you tell me what settings you used to calibrate the tv?

Thanks.

p.s. This is going to be sweet for gaming!

I would also like to know the optimum settings because I plan on picking this up myself.

Dan-

What other accessories do you plan on picking up with the TV?

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:47 pm

AJ,

The best bet might be to go on to avsforum.com. There's a search that you can type in for example "westinghouse 32" ". That's primarily where I got a lot of information yesterday that solidified my decision to get the tv. If you sift through the impressions, questions, there are those who give advice as to what settings the tv should be set to.

I'm not sure what other accessories I'm going to purchase yet. I suppose a new S video cable, perhaps a DVI cable (not exactly sure if I really need that). I'm going to most likely purchase an HD receiver on Friday as Best Buy and CompUSA have receivers free after rebate.

Suggestions by Jon and Sport would be appreciated.

Thanks. Good luck with the purchase. By the way, did you happen to get one of those 10% coupons in the mail that seemingly comes every few weeks? If you do, you can put it towards the purchase. It brought the tv down from $899 to $809.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:07 pm

sportdan30 wrote:I'm not sure what other accessories I'm going to purchase yet. I suppose a new S video cable, perhaps a DVI cable (not exactly sure if I really need that). I'm going to most likely purchase an HD receiver on Friday as Best Buy and CompUSA have receivers free after rebate.

Suggestions by Jon and Sport would be appreciated.

Well, I'm not Jon or Sport, but. . .

What do you need an S-Video cable for, what piece of gear? Depending on whether the TV has an HDMI input or not (I would assume that it being a newer unit, it does), you won't need a DVI cable, but rather an HDMI cable to get from your Set Top Box (STB) to your display. Ther are DVI-HDMI adapters as well if the STB has one type of connection and the display has another. Component cables are what you would need for most DVD players to get the best possible picture. Component will be much better than S-Video.

You do not have to go nuts and buy the over-priced Monster or THX cables, particularly for the digital cables like optical for audio, or HDMI. Reasonable priced, competent ones will work fine; with digital it's either on or off, so if you're getting a good signal through the cable with no break-ups, you are getting as good a signal as you are going to get. For analog cables, like component or S-Video, better quality is a good idea, but again you don't need to go nuts with the super-shielded Monster deals. Component cables are really just RCA cables, so you don't really have to find specially designed component cables for your DVD player, any good quality, shielded RCA cable (preferably with gold connectors) are going to do you well. The really cheap ones you might get with an HD cable box, for example, can be improved on, however.

One outstanding item to get is the DVD called "Digital Video Essentials." This thing is awesome, with a huge multitude of video test patterns to help you calibrate your set, a card with red, green and blue filters (necessary for proper color setting calibration unless your display can turn off individual color channels), as well as excellent sound calibration tools and test signals. The DVE website has an excellent manual in .pdf format that is much more useful than the skimpy little thing that comes with the DVD, and the DVD itself has a very nice explanation/introduction to HT, both sound and picture. There is also a well-regarded calibration DVD by Avia, but my understanding is that it lacks the kind of test patterns most useful for digital displays.

Is the dispaly an LCD or a Plasma? If Plasma, just take care to 'break in' the set for the first 100hrs or so. It may not be entirely necessary to do so to avoid burn-in in these late model Plasmas, but it is still a good idea. If LCD, than as has been stated, carefully inspect the image to look for dead/fixed pixels. If none are there early on, you are most likely in the clear.

One thing I noticed right away with my new display is that a lot of DVDs are terrible transfers. Newer pictures, expecially big-budget releases, are mostly very good these days, many of them dubbed off of HD masters, but old DVDs really can look like crap on a nice HD display, especially if they are not 'enhanced for widescreen TVs.' I now have a small stack of DVDs I need to get rid of as I will never subject myself to watching them again!

Enjoy your new display!

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:19 pm

Zep,

Wow. Thanks for all the information. This LCD tv does not have an HDMI input unfortunately. Therefore, do you then suggest getting a DVI cable?

I'm going to pick up some component cables this evening.

Also, can I purchase Digital Video Essentials via a retail store or only online?

If I recall correctly, the only cables that came with the tv were the red, blue, and yellow cables. I attempted to connect them to my DVD player, and while I got a picture (which by the way was visible but distorted), I did not have audio.

I haven't yet hooked up directv to the set.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:53 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Zep,

Wow. Thanks for all the information. This LCD tv does not have an HDMI input unfortunately. Therefore, do you then suggest getting a DVI cable?

I'm going to pick up some component cables this evening.

Also, can I purchase Digital Video Essentials via a retail store or only online?

If I recall correctly, the only cables that came with the tv were the red, blue, and yellow cables. I attempted to connect them to my DVD player, and while I got a picture (which by the way was visible but distorted), I did not have audio.

I haven't yet hooked up directv to the set.

DVE can be tough to find, but the big original MYC electronics Super Store J&R did have plenty in stock, so I went down and grabbed it. You can rent it from netflix, but you won't get the useful color filters, really necessary to calibrate colors correctly.

I'm not sure which is the best way to go in terms of DVI/HDMI adapters: get the HDMI cable and a DVI adapter, or the other way around. Sport or Jon should know better on that count.

However, I would hold off on getting a cable until you get your STB. Many come with a digital cable in the box, and that would help you decide what adapter to get. If no cable comes with the STB, than at least you will know what connection options you have from the STB. Generally, a digital connection (DVI or HDMI) will be superior to component, but every HD STB should have a component connection option as well as any digital connection it may have.

As to your DVD picture being distorted. . .perhaps you didn't connect the cables in the proper order? Red , Blue, and Yellow don't sound like standard cables to me. Standard composit cables would have yellow for video, red and white for audio; component cables should be red, blue and green. I'm not sure about VGA cable conventions.

But I'm pretty sure that if you connect any 3 RCA cables to the component connections on your DVD player and your display (make sure you connect each one to it's partner, if you follow me), then you should get a good picture, assuming the cables aren't damaged. Check to make sure you didn't cross-connect them.

Otherwise, in what way is the picture distorted? Specifics are good, that way folks can help troublshoot with you better.

I am hitting the road now, but I hope to check in this evening when we arrive. Good luck!

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:02 pm

I apologize for I was mistaken. The cables that came with the set were in fact blue, red, and green. Therefore, I imagine they are in fact component cables.

Thus, I need to most likely pick up a set of cables that are red, white, and yellow. I might even have a set at home actually. Are they all of the same quality?

Isn't a S video cable suggested when hooking up to the Xbox or 360?

The PQ as I said was visible but it almost looked like it had red lines and it was a bit static looking. I'm sure I didn't have the cables properly set.

Didn't have much time last night to fiddle around with it, but hopefully I'll have more time this evening.

Hope you have a safe trip.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:10 pm

The TV comes with both standard and component cables.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:12 pm

Stupid me just remembered that I'm going to use my 360 as my DVD player.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:04 pm

sportdan30 wrote:AJ,

The best bet might be to go on to avsforum.com. There's a search that you can type in for example "westinghouse 32" ". That's primarily where I got a lot of information yesterday that solidified my decision to get the tv. If you sift through the impressions, questions, there are those who give advice as to what settings the tv should be set to.

I'm not sure what other accessories I'm going to purchase yet. I suppose a new S video cable, perhaps a DVI cable (not exactly sure if I really need that). I'm going to most likely purchase an HD receiver on Friday as Best Buy and CompUSA have receivers free after rebate.

Suggestions by Jon and Sport would be appreciated.

Sorry, I've been busy with the 360 all morning. Break time for me for a bit...

HDMI and DVI are both digital video cables. The primary difference is that HDMI also carries the audio signal as well (digitally) to the TV. With DVI, you have a seperate audio cable. However, since most people connect their audio to an A/V receiver anyway, for DD5.1 and what have you, there's really no difference then.

If your new HD receiver has HDMI out, you can buy a cheap adapter to convert HDMI to DVI and use a DVI cable that way.

AVIA and DVE are both good calibration DVD's. DVE has updated theirs recently, but either should do. I'd check half.com or deepdiscountdvd.com for a deal.

Blue/Red/Green - that's usually component cables.

For the 360, you want to use component cables (the ones included with the premium kit). That's the best available as S-video will NOT transmit HD signals. S-video is limited to 480i. You can also use the VGA cable ($40) if you bought a core system and don't already have the component cables. If you're using component, make sure you flip the switch on the thing that plugs into the actual console. There's a toggle for switching it from composite to component output (pretty nifty IMO).

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:15 pm

Thanks Jon for the info. Next time you're in Chesterfield, feel free to swing on by and set my system up nice and pretty. LOL.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:29 pm

I would really appreciate it if someone would let me know what cables I need to get the best picture with this cable box and the 32" Westinghouse LCD. I was just using the component cables and high def looks great, but the local channels in SD look fuzzy.

http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers ... _Guide.pdf

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:10 pm

Leebo33 wrote:I would really appreciate it if someone would let me know what cables I need to get the best picture with this cable box and the 32" Westinghouse LCD. I was just using the component cables and high def looks great, but the local channels in SD look fuzzy.

http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers ... _Guide.pdf

Leebo, that depends on a few things. If your cable feed is not good, those channels will look like crap no matter what. The downside of HD is it tends to expose a lot of bad signals that a standard TV hides. I would go with either HDMI/DVI or component cables. However, you could try using S-video for those SD channels -- I've heard some people claim on the AVS forum that the standard picture looks better with S-video. If your cable box can output both at the same time, you could hook S-video up to one input for SD, component/DVI to another for HD.

Sportdan, I really don't recommend using composite (yellow, white, and red) cables instead of component. If you need audio from your box to your TV, use a pair of audio red/white audio and connect to the audio in jacks, and keep component for the video.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:51 am

Brando70 wrote: I've heard some people claim on the AVS forum that the standard picture looks better with S-video. If your cable box can output both at the same time, you could hook S-video up to one input for SD, component/DVI to another for HD.

One bonus is that on many displays, you can have different video settings for each input, and so if you set it up this way Brando mentions (S-video into one input to use when watching SD, component/DVI/HDMI to another for HD), you can set the video settings differently for each input. I would think this would help a lot, as the optimal video settings would tend to be different for SD than for HD.

A quick primer on video cables: composit video cable (the standard, one RCA cable, usually yellow) carries both luminance (bright/dark) and chrominance (color) information in the one cable, mixed together. S-video cables carry luminance and chrominance info on separate wires within the cable, resulting in a superior picture over the composit RCA video cable. Both of these cables can only transmit standard-def (480interlaced) signals.

Component cables can transmit SD (480i) and HD signals (480p, 720p, 1080i), and do so by carrying each of the three color channels (red, green and blue) on separate cables. VGA also carries each color channel in a separate cable, but does so differently as Jon explained earlier in this thread (he knows far better than I in this area).

DVI and HDMI cables are digital cables, so they carry 1s and 0s, essentially, which are decoded by the display into the picture information. Being digital, this signal is not subject to the kind of interference or loss of signal that analog cables are subject to, so for that and other reasons, you will generally get a superior picture using digital cables than using component. That said, component cables are still capable of producing a stunningly good picture.

As Brando says, SD often looks like crap on HD displays because the display is capable of showing you faults and artifacts that a standard TV hides. I've found that some SD signals can actually look really, really good, but generally the cable and satellite providers use so much lossy compression that a lot of the 'bad' in the image you are seeing are artifacts of that compression. You don't notice those artifacts as much on a regular SD TV because the TV isn't good enough, basically. But on an HD display, these artifacts tend to show up loudly and really distract.

Please correct my info if I am mistaken, but that's my understanding. Again, I have seen some SD signals look great on HD sets, but most digital SD signals are so highly compressed that they look terrible. It's not necessarily the fault of the SD source itself as much as it is the compression used to transmit it.

Remember, when DirecTV says something like 'digital quality picture,' they are trying to equate 'digital' with 'high quality.' This is not a fair definition, as 'digital picture' can be a great range of quality, from very good to horrendous (or from stunning 1080i HD images to 400-or-fewer interlaced lines of resolution complete with majorly blocky artifacts, bad color info, and washed out and noisy blacks). Digital is not a synonym for 'high quality' as much as the advertisers would like it to be. I've found that digital cable and digital satellite are full of compression artifacts not seen in the days of analog cable (the trade off is you don't get the ghosting and other artifacts common with analog signals). Some SD channels will get more bandwidth, I guess, and so exhibit far fewer or no artifacts of compression, but the majority of SD channels on digital cable or satellite are highly compressed.

Leebo:

Looking at the manual you linked, it appears your box is capable of connecting to a display in four different ways: DVI (digital connection), Component (analog HD connection), S-video, or RCA. For best results for HD signals, I would say the DVI connection is the best bet (using a DVI-HDMI adapter if necessary to connect it to your display). The component connection will also provide a very good HD image if your display does not have a digital input (DVI or HDMI). However, note that the 360 only has component or VGA cables, no digital connection, so you'd want to save a component or VGA capable input for the 360. Also, most DVD players have component out, but very few have DVI or HDMI out, so save another component input for that (assuming you have a DVD player that you prefer separate from the 360).

As mentioned by Brando, you may want to connect the S-video out of the cable box into a different input on your display to watch SD channels, as this may provide you with a more pleasing SD picture than the HD connections. Also, this may, depending on your display, allow you to tweak the picture settings separately for SD and HD signals and save them for those specific inputs. That is, you can watch SD on Video 1 (S-video connection), for example, and set video settings appropriate for that stuff on that input, and then watch HD content on Video 3 (DVI connection), tweaking video settings specifically for that input. Many displays will save different settings for each input.

The only reason you would use the RCA video out is if you were connecting the box to a monitor or VCR that only has RCA video in.

Man, I just laid down another Zeppo tome, I hope you could get through it and found it helpful. Just to simplify, in order of quality: Digital (DVI/HDMI), VGA, Component (all three HD capable); S-video (only SD), RCA (only SD).

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:56 am

Thanks guys!

I love the TV!