HDTV/Gaming setup for cheap gamers!

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:03 pm

I'm pretty sure an ATI guy said MS had their WebTV division design the output chip, rather than let ATI do it. The ATI guy pointed this out because everyone was going "Ooh, double HDMI output on the RSX GPU of the PS3." He was saying their GPU could easily support HDMI but it was out of their hands.

The MS chip lacks a TDMI transmitter and is generating only an analog signal.

They probably did this to cut costs as HDMI connectors and supporting HDCP encryption requires paying some licensing fees. The savings may be only a couple of dollars at the most but every cent helps when you're planning to manufacture tens of millions of boxes.

If they could do an HDMI cable later, they could do it now so a simple cable isn't likely. Someone suggested taking the analog component and then converting it to digital so that it could have an HDMI plug. But again, that would not make things better, picture quality-wise, to have another conversion from digital to analog or vice versa.

I think MS talking about HD-DVD or HDMI is damage control, that they really don't plan on such major changes. Recently, some MS guy in Japan said even if they added HD-DVD and HDMI, those would only be for enabling HD movie playback, not games. This was obvious to many people because if they came out with a model with the HD-DVD drive and came out with games on HD-DVD discs, it would split the market between those who only have DVD drives on their X360s and those with the newer X360s. That wouldn't be a smart move to make.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:11 pm

My bad, I thought it was shipping with HDMI capability.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:25 pm

HDMI becomes important only if HD movie playback becomes a big deal, either through consoles or just in general, in the next 5-10 years.

Right now, there is a huge battle looming between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to become the replacement for DVD. For the last couple of years, you had Toshiba and Warners lining up on the HD-DVD side and Sony, Philips, Matsushita and just about every major consumer electronics and PC hardware makers line up on the Blu-Ray side.

Beginning in January, the six big studios lined up with each side getting 3 of the 6. But in the last month, two of the studios which had previously said they would initially ship HD-DVD movies have changed and said they will also ship on Blu-Ray. These are Paramount and Warners, which actually holds patents on DVD and HD-DVD technology and which got Toshiba to develop and submit HD-DVD in the first place. As a result, Blu-Ray has support of over 80% of the studios while HD-DVD has about 40-45%. Some observers believe Paramount and Warners are saying they will still release HD-DVD titles as a face-saving measure and that they will probably drop support for HD-DVD after a token set of releases. Paramount cited the prospects of the PS3 as a reason for their switch.

Meanwhile, MS also in the last month has been throwing fits about how Blu-Ray won't support something called Managed Mandatory Copying and iHD, which is a software for enabling interactive features of movie discs. So it came out in support of HD-DVD at the same time the two major HD-DVD studios were announcing support for Blu-Ray.

This move by MS is seen as an effort to stop Blu-Ray's momentum, because Blu-Ray is a key feature of the PS3. There's also some suggestion that by demanding that Blu-Ray adopt MMC and iHD, it will delay the finalization of the Blu-Ray spec and hence, delay the PS3.

So if high-definition movies become a big deal, then X360 may suffer for not having HDMI (because it's expected that to get full HDTV resolution from these discs, you have to have an HDMI connection for copy-protection reasons). But if people don't care about watching HDTV movies on their consoles, then it won't be a big deal at all.

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:33 pm

Yeah, this whole blu-ray/HDDVD has become a clusterf*ck. The consensus is that Blu-ray is in the lead so it probably is why the 360 does not have HDDVD capabilities.

But as far as hooking up the 360 wouldn't VGA be the best seeing as how it's not as compressed as component? I don't know if VGA can handle 1080i though. but if you're using a plasma then everything gets upconferted to it's native resolution any way.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:36 pm

laurenskye wrote:Yeah, this whole blu-ray/HDDVD has become a clusterf*ck. The consensus is that Blu-ray is in the lead so it probably is why the 360 does not have HDDVD capabilities.

But as far as hooking up the 360 wouldn't VGA be the best seeing as how it's not as compressed as component? I don't know if VGA can handle 1080i though. but if you're using a plasma then everything gets upconferted to it's native resolution any way.

VGA and component would be the same as far as quality goes, according to what the MS guys and tehchies are saying. VGA handles each resolution the Xbox 360 will produce (480p, 720p and 1080i).

billharris44 · Post by **billharris44** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:19 pm

Zeppo had some excellent device in terms of checking out the AVS forums. You'll find tons of reviews on every HD set out there, along with general discussion/education as well.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:50 pm

http://www.woot.com/

If I had $2,000 - I just might have bought this set.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:55 pm

I don't know how things roll in Missou but here we keep the beastiality stuff to ourselves.

I doubt I will be able to watch Mr Ed ever again after that toungebath.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:33 pm

bdoughty wrote:I don't know how things roll in Missou but here we keep the beastiality stuff to ourselves. I doubt I will be able to watch Mr Ed ever again after that toungebath.

LOL

Yeah, kind of a weird pic.. but that TV would look good in our living room or bedroom though.. and with the 360 hooked up to it.......

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:50 pm

Which tv sounds like the best deal? I'm kinda liking the JVC 32".

http://blackfriday.gottadeal.com/sales.php

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:31 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Which tv sounds like the best deal? I'm kinda liking the JVC 32".

http://blackfriday.gottadeal.com/sales.php

The more I look at that deal:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp ... 5364482411

The more I like it for $1200.

It doesn't have an * by it either, which means it's not only for a limited quantity. I need to work on the wife on this one as it fits perfectly in the entertainment center. I did find it for $1300, but that's even a good deal.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:12 pm

Now, I'm liking this Panasonic 30"

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Search.d ... ection=All

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:38 pm

is there any drawback to buying just a TV "monitor"?
that means you still need a Direct TV or Cable Box, right?
It means the set has no built in tuner? That really isn't needed
nowadays, correct?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:39 pm

JackB1 wrote:is there any drawback to buying just a TV "monitor"?
that means you still need a Direct TV or Cable Box, right?
It means the set has no built in tuner? That really isn't needed
nowadays, correct?

Correct...as long as you have an HDTV source (cable box, xbox, etc.) then it's all good. The only time you need the tuner is if you want to pull in Over the Air High Definition channels.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:33 pm

Wow, another nice find.. and great reviews to boot. Not sure it will fit in the entertainment center though.

Kissrox · Post by **Kissrox** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:01 pm

I just picked up a 57" rear projection HDTV and I love it. It's HUGE!!!!! NHL 2K6 is incredible on it in wide screen!

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:36 am

Well, this cheap gamer just picked up a Samsung 26" HDTV CRT at Best Buy. It was on clearance for $529, and because it was the last one available, I bought it for $475. The PQ on my local channels looks beautiful.

Now, I need to pick up a HD directv receiver. Do I also need a new directv HD dish as well? Our main television, a 53" Sony Trinitron is a standard 4:3 in 480. Will going with a HD dish affect the clarity on my Sony?

Also, what cables do I need to purchase? Because I bought an off the shelf tv, I don't have a manual.

Thanks.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:39 am

sportdan30 wrote:Well, this cheap gamer just picked up a Samsung 26" HDTV CRT at Best Buy. It was on clearance for $529, and because it was the last one available, I bought it for $475. The PQ on my local channels looks beautiful.

Now, I need to pick up a HD directv receiver. Do I also need a new directv HD dish as well? Our main television, a 53" Sony Trinitron is a standard 4:3 in 480. Will going with a HD dish affect the clarity on my Sony?

Also, what cables do I need to purchase? Because I bought an off the shelf tv, I don't have a manual.

Thanks.

You may need a new dish (you need one with the 3 little receivers on it) but it will be free with the purchase of a HD receiver, assuming you buy it directly from them. It should come with all of the cables you need. Nice find on the TV...I gotta find one of those for my game room. I can't always hog the Hitachi.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:20 am

Thanks Scott. I figure a year or two down the line, the plasmas and lcds will be affordable enough to replace my 53" Sony Trinitron. I didn't want to spend a lot of money at this point seeing that I'm most likely going to purchase the 360 next week. Surprisingly, the 26" is perfect for our bedroom.

They did have a few 30" Sony Wegas listed at $799, but because they were open boxes they were willing to sell it to me for $629. I gave it some thought, but there really wasn't a huge difference between the 26" and 30". Also, the Sony's were knicked up and they appeared to be at least 50 pounds heavier than the Samsung. It was a struggle enough getting the tv up a flight of stairs with the wife.

Gonna call Directv this morning. However, I did see that CompUSA has HD receivers free after rebates on black Friday. Wonder if it's worth waiting until then.

GridIronGhost · Post by **GridIronGhost** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:24 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Now, I'm liking this Panasonic 30"

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Search.d ... ection=All

That TV does not support 720p.

GridIronGhost · Post by **GridIronGhost** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:27 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Well, this cheap gamer just picked up a Samsung 26" HDTV CRT at Best Buy.

How is the geometry on your TV? Look at some channels that have a news/sports ticker on the bottom and on the top. Does the lines curve up or down at the edges? You will also notice it in sports games on the consoles.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:07 pm

GridIronGhost wrote:
sportdan30 wrote:Well, this cheap gamer just picked up a Samsung 26" HDTV CRT at Best Buy.
How is the geometry on your TV? Look at some channels that have a news/sports ticker on the bottom and on the top. Does the lines curve up or down at the edges? You will also notice it in sports games on the consoles.

Not sure. I only get local channels via an antenna currently. I can't imagine that being the case, at least I hope not.

Directv will sell me a reciever for $249.00! What is that cr*p??? Gotta be a better deal than that. That's b.s.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:12 pm

For anyone looking for a good quality 46" widescreen DLP HDTV at a very reasonable price, I found the Toshiba 46HM95 for only $1499... that's like refurb pricing, less than internet pricing.

Here's details on the TV and it's regular price ($2199):

LINK

According to the "Black Friday" websites, this thing will be going on sale for only $1499. Just wait until the day after Thanksgiving and you can get yourself a fine gaming DLP. It's 720p native, has 2 component HD inputs, and a HDMI input, everything you'd need.

Better yet, just buy it now and then walk into the store that Friday for a pricematch. Probably easier that way, not having to deal with the mad rush of people and long check out lines... shouldn't be many ppl at customer service doing returns/pricematches.

It does have a wobbulated DLP chip (usually the mass produced chips) but for a $1499 DLP HDTV, beggers can't be choosers.

Here's the ad. scan of the page I'm talking about (from http://blackfriday.gottadeal.com/ ):

http://photobucket.com/albums/b287/jbdi ... buy_07.jpg

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:17 pm

sportdan30 wrote: Directv will sell me a reciever for $249.00! What is that cr*p??? Gotta be a better deal than that. That's b.s.

Just call retention, it might take a few tries but you can get a good deal.

This guy got the HD Tivo from them for that price:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sh ... ost3462816

I upgraded to HD Tivo this summer and got a similar deal. It took 3 tries but I finally got a rep that would wheel and deal. I had already bought the HD Tivo from Best Buy for $299 (when they were doing a 50% coupon off all Tivo stuff and a few of us were able to use it on the HD Tivo before corporate closed the loophole). I got a $100 rebate, and then the rep gave me a $200 service credit on my bill as a "thank you" for upgrading and committing even more to DirecTV. He also threw in the 6 months of HBO @ $2 and free Showtime for 6 months. You just have to work them, and find out what other people are getting so that you know what to push for.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:28 pm

Thanks for the information Jon. Your knowledge of technology has been well received at OS, and I'm sure it will be the same here at DSP. I'm definitely going to call retention and give that a go. If not, I'm going to look in to the CompUSA deal that they're going to have on black Friday. Supposedbly, it's a directv hd receiver "free" after rebates. I'm sure there's a catch though.

Welcome to DSP. Nice to see another guy from St. Louis posting here. That makes five of us total from the 'Lou.