HDTV/Gaming setup for cheap gamers!

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Sport73
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HDTV/Gaming setup for cheap gamers!

Post by Sport73 »

I posted this at another forum regarding HDTV, but I figured I'd copy it here since it's a good solution for a gamer looking for a new setup on a budget...$999 for a 32" LCD HDTV is not bad, and the performance is more than adequate for all but the most discerning AV geeks.

--------------------------------------

Completed the install of my friend's 32" Westinghouse LCD TV (wall-mounted, new DVD player installed, cables run through walls etc.) and re-calibrated the set using a cheap upscaling/progressive DVD player connected via component.

The hue, saturation, brightness are all pretty close out of the box. Contrast needed to come up 6-7 ticks, brightness up about 1-3 ticks, Hue 1 click right of center, saturation down a few ticks; sharpness set to 3.

A great looking image followed (though I did notice a little 'ghosting' I attribute to an imperfect analog signal via component (whether it's the DVD player, cables, or TV is unknown, but tests with my DVI DVD player looked PERFECT and sharp). To my knowledge, the actual LCD panels used in this set are made by LG, and the internal scaling processor is the Faroudja; both of which are highly regarded.

Best Buy is running an online deal where you get the Insignia DVD/Receiver and 5-speaker setup with any TV $999 and over. We ditched the speakers as he already had a much better setup, but used the Insignia as the DVD source. For $1300, he got the TV, a Yamaha Surround Sound Receiver with PLII+, a progressive DVD player/receiver/processor integrated unit, all necessary cables etc.

After an extensive install running cables in the wall, this setup looks STUNNING, the TV itself looks great, and the overall quality is more than good enough. Does it make me regret my $10k setup? No, mine still looks and sounds better, but for $1,300 I can't imagine a better value!

My only gripes with the set is the lack of a 'popping' yellow on Avia Color Test Charts, which could be tuned in IF the set offered independent color controls, but IT DOES NOT. That could be a deal-breaker for the finicky veiwer. Secondly, the remote is cheap and incomplete, requiring use of on-screen menus for many functions that SHOULD be handled by a 'quick button'.

Still, I would recommend the Westinghouse 32" model to ANYONE who is looking for a bargain in a setting that will not be 'discriminating' veiwing.
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Post by sportdan30 »

Sport,

Appreciate this thread. I'm toying with the idea of purchasing an HDTV, however I am on a rather inexpensive budget.

What is your feelings on going with an HDTV CRT? I've read where the picture quality is excellent I'm not necessarily concerned with saving space as I am more about saving money.

Thanks.

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Post by anchester »

if you can somewhat control the light, you can get a 50 in RCA projection for less than a grand.

CRT projection has one of the best pictures, if you view head on and the room is not too bright.

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Post by sportdan30 »

The tv is most likely going up in our loft. It would only sit about six feet away from the couch. Therefore, I don't know if that's enough distance for such a big tv. What we have now is an old 25" Magnavox that's easily 10 years old. If I could find something in the 30" to 39" range, that would be ideal.

I should also note that at this time, I'm not interested to paying an additional $10 or $12 a month for HDTV programming on Diretv. Plus, the cost of buying a new HD receiver is not something I wish to do.

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Post by wco81 »

CRT still has best picture for the money.

You should be able to find 30-inch widescreens for $1000 or less. That should be close in size to the 32-inch LCD (not sure if that's a 4:3 or 16:9).

You can get 34-inch CRTs for under $1500 I believe, from Toshiba and Panasonic. Maybe Samsung and Sony too.

The 34-inch XBR from Sony is $1800-1900 with a 2-year warranty. That should compare in picture quality to just about anything out there. Of course, a lot of HDTV people think you can't really enjoy the HDTV experience on any screen less than 40 inches or so. But at 6 feet away, you should be able to see the clarity.

Yeah I wouldn't pay big money for Direct TV receiver right now. But you may be able to get it for as little as $99. Depending on where you are, you may be able to get HDTV channels for free, using a small antenna. If you're far away and the terrain is hilly with a lot of tall buildings, then you would probably need a big roof antenna but otherwise, you can get digital and HDTV signals a lot easier than analog.

A lot of TVs these days come with built-in ATSC tuner to get over the air (OTA) channels. Many also come with QAM tuners to get cable HDTV channels or a Cable Card slot. Many cable systems send their HDTV channels in the clear so some people report just plugging in their sets, without any set top box, and getting cable HDTV channels, sometimes premiums. Otherwise, many cable systems are offering HDTV DVRs for like $10-15 a month.

You should also be able to get cable HDTV channels with just basic. No need to subscribe to digital cable.

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Re: HDTV/Gaming setup for cheap gamers!

Post by GridIronGhost »

Sport73 wrote:I posted this at another forum regarding HDTV, but I figured I'd copy it here since it's a good solution for a gamer looking for a new setup on a budget...$999 for a 32" LCD HDTV is not bad, and the performance is more than adequate for all but the most discerning AV geeks.

--------------------------------------

Completed the install of my friend's 32" Westinghouse LCD TV (wall-mounted, new DVD player installed, cables run through walls etc.) and re-calibrated the set using a cheap upscaling/progressive DVD player connected via component.

The hue, saturation, brightness are all pretty close out of the box. Contrast needed to come up 6-7 ticks, brightness up about 1-3 ticks, Hue 1 click right of center, saturation down a few ticks; sharpness set to 3.

A great looking image followed (though I did notice a little 'ghosting' I attribute to an imperfect analog signal via component (whether it's the DVD player, cables, or TV is unknown, but tests with my DVI DVD player looked PERFECT and sharp). To my knowledge, the actual LCD panels used in this set are made by LG, and the internal scaling processor is the Faroudja; both of which are highly regarded.

Best Buy is running an online deal where you get the Insignia DVD/Receiver and 5-speaker setup with any TV $999 and over. We ditched the speakers as he already had a much better setup, but used the Insignia as the DVD source. For $1300, he got the TV, a Yamaha Surround Sound Receiver with PLII+, a progressive DVD player/receiver/processor integrated unit, all necessary cables etc.

After an extensive install running cables in the wall, this setup looks STUNNING, the TV itself looks great, and the overall quality is more than good enough. Does it make me regret my $10k setup? No, mine still looks and sounds better, but for $1,300 I can't imagine a better value!

My only gripes with the set is the lack of a 'popping' yellow on Avia Color Test Charts, which could be tuned in IF the set offered independent color controls, but IT DOES NOT. That could be a deal-breaker for the finicky veiwer. Secondly, the remote is cheap and incomplete, requiring use of on-screen menus for many functions that SHOULD be handled by a 'quick button'.

Still, I would recommend the Westinghouse 32" model to ANYONE who is looking for a bargain in a setting that will not be 'discriminating' veiwing.
I did not think that TV was very good for gaming. I much rather pay a little more for a better set, like the low end Sony or a Samsung. Ghosting IS a problem on the Westy. The blacks are not up to par either. The westy is a poor mans tv in the same league as maxtent, olivia, etc.
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Post by dbdynsty25 »

wco81 wrote:CRT still has best picture for the money.

You should be able to find 30-inch widescreens for $1000 or less. That should be close in size to the 32-inch LCD (not sure if that's a 4:3 or 16:9).
If space ISN'T an issue, then you might as well just get a 47 or a 48 inch rear projection CRT HDTV like I did. You can't go wrong...spend less than 1500 and get the screen reale state that you need/want. But you're right, 6 feet is a little close...you need to be closer to 8 or 9 feet to enjoy a 48 in all it's glory.

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Post by GridIronGhost »

sportdan30 wrote:Sport,

Appreciate this thread. I'm toying with the idea of purchasing an HDTV, however I am on a rather inexpensive budget.

What is your feelings on going with an HDTV CRT? I've read where the picture quality is excellent I'm not necessarily concerned with saving space as I am more about saving money.

Thanks.
CRT is the best bang for your buck TV on the market today. Best Buy has the Sony KD30XS955 for under $800 with coupon, if you can find one get it! I love the Sony XS955 series TV's. They have the Super Fine screen that produces some of the best picture when properly calibrated. Only draw back with CRT is geometry. But that can be fixed. Really, it's the best all around TV, excellent for cable, digital, HDTV, film, games, DVD, etc. Perfect for your viewing distance.
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Post by GridIronGhost »

dbdynsty25 wrote:
wco81 wrote:CRT still has best picture for the money.

You should be able to find 30-inch widescreens for $1000 or less. That should be close in size to the 32-inch LCD (not sure if that's a 4:3 or 16:9).
If space ISN'T an issue, then you might as well just get a 47 or a 48 inch rear projection CRT HDTV like I did. You can't go wrong...spend less than 1500 and get the screen reale state that you need/want. But you're right, 6 feet is a little close...you need to be closer to 8 or 9 feet to enjoy a 48 in all it's glory.
Yeah, even a 42" is bug eyed close. 8O
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Post by wco81 »

The CRT RPTVs are the best values but they will be a big PITA to get rid of in a few years. There will be little demand for them in the used market and the things are not easily disposed of, because of their bulk.

There are some really beautiful models like the Pioneer Elites, which were $5k and more when brand new. But even Pioneer has stopped making CRT RPTVs because they know they can't get the same kind of prices as the plasmas or DLPs. The old Pioneer Elites probably were better than the DLPs but people would rather have the thinner DLP sets, for less money too.

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Post by sportdan30 »

Say I went with an LCD display. What's the absolute minimum display size I could get away with?

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Post by GridIronGhost »

A RPTV would be too big for him, the one that I mentioned is a tube TV. Why would anyone get rid of a set that is still the best out on the market today? Unless you run out of space? Here is the one Best Buy has @ under $800....
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSH ... =KD30XS955
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Post by Zeppo »

As to screen size:

Here is a handy resource that can help you figure out what size screen you 'should' get depending on your viewing distance:

http://w%20w%20w.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

Note that these standards, both the SMPTE and the THX standards, are designed for movie auditoriums. So, if you want to fully recreate the movie experience with your widescreen TV, then these numbers are good to go by. That doesn't sound like what you're shooting for, so for most home viewing, either network TV shows in HD or gaming, most folks would feel you don't need to fill that 30º of your field of view. The big issue is that if you go nuts with the THX recommendation, a lot of HD display technologies will start to show their artifacts from that close, like screen door effect or what have you.

I would say shoot for something in the 20º-25º range to get that quality HD experience, without feeling like you've gone insane with the huge screen. Anything smaller than that, and IMHO you will pretty quickly feel that the screen wants to be bigger. The thing is, the much better resolution of the HD content and HD games (so far superior to what we have been used to all our lives, dealing with the NTSC technology that was originally designed for 9" diagonal screens) really warrants a much larger screen than what you've been used to in NTSC-land.

Standard def. content will not look great all nice and big, there's just no way around that. But usually, in my experience, this is due more to the lossy delivery methods of cable and DirecTV than the standard def. resolutions. SDTV content can look darn good when you watch it on a digital HD signal. That is, watching Inside the NFL on HBO HD looks a million times better than watching a Jefferson Pilot game on the local NTSC Fox Sports channel. Of course, once you go HD, you will find you're not watching that much SD stuff, even if all you have is an antenna and OTA digital stations.

Anyway, CRTs have the best PQ bar none, except maybe really top end plasmas or front projectors. My understanding is that CRT RPTVs have the best PQ for RPTVs, but they still suffer from very narrow viewing angles (you lose brightness as you get out of the small sweet spot), something the fixed-pixel technologies do better (LCD RPTV or DLPs).

My understanding is that LCD TVs have issues with gaming, specifically issues of ghosting and maybe lag. Some are better than others, and then some gamers notice the lag more than others, as it's only really an issue in certain types of games and situations. CRTs, either direct view or RP, have none of those problems (though I'm not sure what to believe about burn-in on CRT RPTVs - back in the day, it was an issue, but I think by now it's no longer a problem unless you run the same game 24/7 for a month). CRTs are undoubtedly the best bang for the buck, with great blacks, crisp whites, and multiple resolutions. But direct view CRTs are massively heavy and cumbersome, especially in comparison to the flat-screen LCDs and Plasmas. And CRT RPTVs have issues with black levels and a tight sweet sport. Other RPTVS (LCD and DLP) are smaller, they don't have the base built-in, so the stand you put it on can hold the various components/game consoles you need. Of course, you'll be paying for that stand, something you won't need to do with a CRT RPTV.

So many choices, so much information to digest: ultimately you need to find the best bang for your buck, the way you see it. One thing I would suggest is to do the research on the web (check AVSForums.com for tons of informed feedback, but beware because as in gaming forums it's the nitpickers who make the most noise), but get the display from a store that will take it back for full credit. That way, you can audition a couple of different displays before settling.

Good luck! Once you go HD, you won't regret it and you'll wonder what took you so long. Especially with Xbox games!

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Post by wco81 »

You should check antennaweb.org to see if you can get good reception in your area.

There are also individual threads at AVS Forum for each area where people talk about what kind of reception they can get or what kind of cable/satellite options there are.

If you can get HDTV programming for free or reasonably, you'd want to make sure you get something with a built-in OTA tuner and maybe a cable tuner as well.

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Post by JackB1 »

$1,000 is cheap ???

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Post by dbdynsty25 »

JackB1 wrote:$1,000 is cheap ???
If you're talking a quality HD monitor, yes, that is cheap.

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Post by wco81 »

Cheaper than $5000 and up.

I remember my folks buying 25 or 27-inch console sets which sat on the floor for $750 and then $950. These were over 20 years ago.

In today's dollar's $1000 isn't much but at the same price point, you're getting so much more.

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Post by GridIronGhost »

Zeppo wrote: And CRT RPTVs have issues with black levels and a tight sweet sport.
If I may correct you, CRT RPTV's do not have any issues with Black levels. LCD RPTV do and some of the other new techno stuff, but not CRT RPTV.
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Post by Zeppo »

GridIronGhost wrote:
Zeppo wrote: And CRT RPTVs have issues with black levels and a tight sweet sport.
If I may correct you, CRT RPTV's do not have any issues with Black levels. LCD RPTV do and some of the other new techno stuff, but not CRT RPTV.
Good to know. I haven't seen a CRT RPTV since I was in Jr. High.

My experience would tell me, however, that all RPTVs have worse black levels than direct view CRTs or good plasma screens, not to mention front projectors. It's just a function of the technology. But of course, some are more sensetive to such things than others. And as I say, I haven't sat down with an HD CRT RPTV. It wouldn't surprise me one bit that CRT RP black levels are far superior to the fixed-pixel RP technologies.

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Post by Brando70 »

sportdan30 wrote:The tv is most likely going up in our loft. It would only sit about six feet away from the couch. Therefore, I don't know if that's enough distance for such a big tv. What we have now is an old 25" Magnavox that's easily 10 years old. If I could find something in the 30" to 39" range, that would be ideal.

I should also note that at this time, I'm not interested to paying an additional $10 or $12 a month for HDTV programming on Diretv. Plus, the cost of buying a new HD receiver is not something I wish to do.
Sport, at 6 feet away, I would top out at 37 inches. Anything bigger and you'll probably start to notice potential pixelation (aka screen door effect). Although, if you're going to use this primarily for 360 gaming, maybe not -- with HD signals on my 42" plasma, I can get really close to the screen before I see any distortion in the picture

If you do plan to use the 360 on this TV, get one with an HDMI input. That will give you the best gaming picture.

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Post by laurenskye »

The 360 does not have HDMI. It only outputs analog.

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Post by bdoughty »

laurenskye wrote:The 360 does not have HDMI. It only outputs analog.
Not exactly, the option to have HDMI is a possibility down the line.

http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/119 ... lmdahl/p1/
All those connections (composite, component, s-video and VGA) have one thing in common: they carry the video signal in an analog format. What about digital connections such DVI or HDMI? Will there be A/V packs with DVI and/or HDMI connections? If not, will you consider offering that in the future?

Todd Holmdahl: Xbox 360 will support HD component video output, which is compatible with nearly every HD-ready TV on the market today. We’re poised to hit the sweet spot of the HD market at launch and as the market matures, and we will provide an HDMI for our customers when it makes sense. The reality is, you don’t need HDMI for HD gaming.

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Post by wco81 »

If they add HDMI support, it will be a pretty significant revision. They won't do it with some adapter or cable. They would have to do it by replacing the output chip, which currently outputs analog signals.

It might be possible to reconvert the analog signals to digital and then to HDMI but that's a clumsy approach, which isn't likely to improve PQ the way people wanting HDMI might expect.

They don't need HDMI for games. It would be for movies, either from a new drive or streamed from a PC.

I don't know if MS is saying things like "we could add HD-DVD or HDMI later" because they really are entertaining such major revisions in the future or they're trying to cover what might be perceived weaknesses compared to the PS3. Replacing the DVD drive or changing the chip to support HDMI are the kind of things which have never been done to a console design within a 5-year cycle.

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Post by dbdynsty25 »

Wco,

You're also assuming that they didn't already populate their board to support that output. Maybe they did and it's just covered up right now...then it wouldn't be that big of a deal to release the HDMI/DVI cable in the future.

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Post by bdoughty »

dbdynsty25 wrote:Wco,

You're also assuming that they didn't already populate their board to support that output. Maybe they did and it's just covered up right now...then it wouldn't be that big of a deal to release the HDMI/DVI cable in the future.
Exactly

According to this it supports digital already..


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=384469

Image

Xbox 360 DFP AV Cable

DFP - (Digital Flat Panel) Yes XBOX360 can support DVI and HDMI native this cable is proof!!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Only time will tell.
Last edited by bdoughty on Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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