iPod Video Released; new iMac...WOW!

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:36 pm

As the resident Apple fan, let me point you to:

http://www.apple.com

More great products announced today.

New iTunes 6 allows you to Purchase music videos and Television shows for $1.99 a piece, watch them on a 'Media Center' iMac, and transfer them to your iPod Video. Nice. Very Nice.

Now, where am I going to get the money for this stuff???

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:48 pm

Funny that you have been able to do that stuff for the past two years on a PC.

fatheadX · Post by **fatheadX** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:48 pm

I'm a little surprised the iPod still tops out at 60GB, I thought 80GB was the next step. The new screen looks real nice, I wish I would have waited for the new iPod as I just got my iPod Photo 60GB last week. Oh well, I still love it.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:51 pm

The one thing that is good about the new Ipod is that they finally have slimmed it down a bit. That has been needed for a while. Now if only they can improve the sound quality...

I'm sure I'll check one out, because a video player that small is obviously a huge sell. The Creative Vision I've been keeping my eye on is significantly bigger.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:57 pm

Actually, it's not a full-fledged Media Center and few people are bothering with AV functions on a computer other than HTPC geeks.

It's a nice screen but video on portables is way overrated. I think they did this because that's where the market is moving more or less, not because video is the next great thing. He seemed to emphasize that music is the main thing.

It would be more useful if it ripped DVDs in one step and then loaded it. It's not clear it supports any codecs other than H.264/MPEG4. So unless there's a good tool to transcode from AVI, MPEG2, DIVX, etc. to H.264, the utility of it for video could be limited.

I'm sure Tivo2Go would love to support the new iPod but the deal with Disney/ABC makes that unlikely. Networks want to be paid for TV eps., not let people copy it from their Tivos.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:59 pm

Yeah, I was about to post about this. And db is right, they aren't showing anything that isn't already available in the PC world or on PMPs. However, Apple is in a class by themselves when it comes to presentation and aesthetic qualities. That is what will make people buy. I read they sold 1 million nanos within 17 days! That's crazy!

The new iMac looks hot and I have been wanting to get one for a while now. Maybe now is the time.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:59 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Funny that you have been able to do that stuff for the past two years on a PC.

Yeah but dude, you can now pay $1.99 to download a tv show!!

No, but seriously, both products look really nice.

Specially that iMac.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:04 pm

wco81 wrote:Actually, it's not a full-fledged Media Center and few people are bothering with AV functions on a computer other than HTPC geeks.

Yeah, it's not a media center and I didn't see any mention of streaming to your TV. I don't too many people who want to gather around "on the sofa" to watch the computer screen.

wco81 wrote:It would be more useful if it ripped DVDs in one step and then loaded it. It's not clear it supports any codecs other than H.264/MPEG4. So unless there's a good tool to transcode from AVI, MPEG2, DIVX, etc. to H.264, the utility of it for video could be limited.

I'm sure it only decodes the formats that are listed, so it will be very limited. I'm sure it was made to work in conjuction more so with downloaded content than transcoded content. Plus, it's an iPod so people are going to snap it up and download stuff off iTunes for it. The average person won't know how to transcode stuff or won't want to bother when they can get stuff directly off iTunes like they do their music.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:08 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:The one thing that is good about the new Ipod is that they finally have slimmed it down a bit. That has been needed for a while. Now if only they can improve the sound quality...

I'm sure I'll check one out, because a video player that small is obviously a huge sell. The Creative Vision I've been keeping my eye on is significantly bigger.

I wouldn't go for the Vision if I was you. All the reviews have been mediocre and the biggest problem they say is the limited visibility of the screen. It takes precse viewing angles to get the best picture.

If you're serious about a PMP I would look at the Archos AV500, i-Station i2, or the i-Station v43. The AV500 and v43 are 16:9 while the i2 is 4:3. Both the i-Stations are supposed to have the best support for codecs without the need to transcode. Theres also the Cowon A2, which is getting a lot of pub and some good intial reviews.

Personally I am leaning towards either the i2 or the v43. The i2 is out now and the v43 may not be out (in the UK or stateside) until December.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:19 pm

Sweet....very sweet. If I would have just waited, I could have had a more souped up IMac. Ahhh, oh well. I absolutely love my IMac that I purchased a few months ago.

That said, I'm still in search of a wireless mouse (bluetooth preferred). How anyone could be content with the one button standard Mac mouse is beyond me.

Still wish there were more than three USB slots on my IMac.

Other than that, I'm quite happy.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:39 pm

iPod Video is dumb. The very least they could have done for it was make it 80gb's so folks with older iPod's would have a reason to upgrade.

Does anyone seriously watch music videos anymore??? Do entertainers even make music videos anymore really? I mean, there is not a music video channel anymore on mainstream cable.

The only way that the iPod Video would be worth it is if it allowed importing of DVD's like they do music CD's. It could convert them and compress them to be watched on the iPod. Then it might be worth it.

That iMac looks pretty sweet though. I am temtped to get one of those but don't know if I want to lose the portability of my laptop, although I rarely take advantage of that. The iMac looks pretty damn portable itself anyway.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:49 pm

Spooky wrote:
The only way that the iPod Video would be worth it is if it allowed importing of DVD's like they do music CD's. It could convert them and compress them to be watched on the iPod. Then it might be worth it.

You can easily rip DVD's to mpeg4 on a Mac using Handbrake. Granted, it takes a while, but the results are just fine.

The iPod istelf supports VIDEO OUT, so you can plug it straight into a TV and play the content anywhere.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:55 pm

I would be very interested if Apple products weren't so overpriced compared to the competition. Yeah, the Apple products have some advantages but not enough to justify Apple's inflated price tag.

Apple has become the Harley-Davidson of computer electronics. People simply buy it for the name cache without even looking at the features, and Apple knows it and charges a pretty penny.

Solid products, brilliant marketing. It's a winning combination for Stevie J.

Take care,
PK

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:28 pm

tsunami wrote:I wouldn't go for the Vision if I was you. All the reviews have been mediocre and the biggest problem they say is the limited visibility of the screen. It takes precse viewing angles to get the best picture.

I'm not really serious about getting a player...I just saw that it came out and it looked pretty cool. If I were to buy one, I'd definitely look into the ones you mentioned. My dad actually is n the market for one, so I'll do a little research for him. Thanks for the tips.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:43 pm

Spooky wrote:iPod Video is dumb. The very least they could have done for it was make it 80gb's so folks with older iPod's would have a reason to upgrade.

Does anyone seriously watch music videos anymore??? Do entertainers even make music videos anymore really? I mean, there is not a music video channel anymore on mainstream cable.

The only way that the iPod Video would be worth it is if it allowed importing of DVD's like they do music CD's. It could convert them and compress them to be watched on the iPod. Then it might be worth it.

That iMac looks pretty sweet though. I am temtped to get one of those but don't know if I want to lose the portability of my laptop, although I rarely take advantage of that. The iMac looks pretty damn portable itself anyway.

Nobody else is pushing beyond 60 GB it seems. Most of the DAPs sold are probably under 20 GB, maybe even under 6 GB. The new 60 GB is thinner than the old 20GB, despite being double platter.

Still, you're right, they need to give people a reason to upgrade and I don't think video is it. For one thing, it's a subset of the total market which can take advantage of portable video on the go -- people who have long commutes on trains or buses and people who are allowed to watch 30 or 60 minute TV shows at work.

As for movies, the reason you can't copy your DVDs is the DMCA, which was passed by a corrupt Congress. Sure you can get software to do it but it is technically illegal to break the encryption to rip the video, whereas that's not the case with CDs.

But beyond the legal obstacles, you have to deal with the fact that video requires much bigger files, requiring bigger hard drives on your computer and your video iPod, better processor and video accelerator chips (if you want to decode HDTV-quality video). That means your hardware costs are much higher. Even if they had movies for sale on iTunes or they have a way to rip DVDs, if you fill up even a 60 GB player with movies, you have room for little else.

I think gadget lovers will like this and home media servers where you could store your movie collection as files to stream around the home or load up on PMPs. But that's a small market, even smaller than the number of people who are able to view videos during the work day.

MS is pushing for this with the next-gen movie discs where people are allowed to rip one "managed copy" of a movie disc you buy. You might have to connect to the Internet to pay some fee for the rip, in addition to what you paid for the disc. They think PMPs could be big, as well as home networks with media servers and Media Center PCs in every room where there's a TV. Really a pipe dream.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:49 pm

It's certainly not as pocketable as these other solutions, but I have bascially the entire 2005 F1, WRC, MotoGP, and Indycar seasons on my laptop in TIVO format. Several episodes of Lost, Family Guy, Simpsons, etc. The display is actually quite usable in a car, on a plane, train, boat...
Oh yeah, its got Sprint Wireless so it can be connected to the internet pretty much anywhere. Speed depends on coverage. Most of the time its better than 56k dial up, worse than DSL, but completely usable for e-mail, surfing, and some streaming. Of course I have a good bit of my music collection as well. Yeah I can't jog with it or use it at the gym, but it pretty much provides me everything I need in one portable unit. TV, Movies, Music, Pictures, Computing, Gaming (limited - depends on the game), Internet, etc. Requires a backpack and more cash than these other options though.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:54 pm

Wasn't just a little while ago that Steve said a video iPod was "a dumb idea"? Well it's still a dumb idea. My guess is that it's a bone thrown to the faddist investors drawn to "the next big thing" that have driven Apple's stock price up to bubble levels based on the iPod which, um, is essentially five-year-old technology at this point.

I'd be hard-pressed to find a better mobile platform for video than the PSP, with it's much larger (and wide) screen and plethora of ripping options. Still, after the inital novelty I wonder how many folks are going to want to suffer through the pain of watching anything serious on the small screen. Portable TVs and DVD players haven't exactly taken over the world, have they?

I'm a lifelong Mac user and evangelist, but I don't see the true innovation coming from the company there once was. Jobs is really leaving those of us who still use Macs for a living out in the cold. If I had stock I'd get ready to dump, since the company is going to face some rough times as the iPod cachet inevitably wears off and with high-end CPU essentially coming to a halt as people postpone Mac hardware purchases until the switch to Intel takes place.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:11 pm

Blublub wrote:I'd be hard-pressed to find a better mobile platform for video than the PSP, with it's much larger (and wide) screen and plethora of ripping options.

Yeah, I agree, but the cost of memory cards pretty much rules it out for most people. It's ridiculously expensive for those Memory Stick Duos...that's why the PSP will never truely be a "video player" for watching TV episodes and movies that aren't on UMD.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:22 pm

There really is no mobile video business model. Everyone is chasing it. The cell phone companies are working to deliver video to even smaller cell phone screens.

Like I said, after the novelty, most people won't bother with video on the go. Then again, UMD movie sales are suppose to be ridiculously high.

Only reason Apple was able to get Disney/ABC content was that Disney wants him to extend the Pixar/Disney deal which expires next year or the year after. Or after the next Pixar movie. So they threw Steve Jobs a bone. There's no evidence that other networks will offer their content. Comcast has tried to get shows for VOD but so far, only HBO and some smaller networks have done so. But if they can get people to download these TV eps. it's a good deal for them. A 20-plus episode season would fetch $40-45 for absolutely low distribution costs. Meanwhile, they get about that much for a season box set on DVD but that has higher distribution costs.

The potential isn't portable or mobile video but some form of video on demand through broadband distribution. Apple would have to convince the studios but then think about it, they'd be competion with cable, satellite and big CE companies like Sony which is trying to bring a blue-laser disc player to market. Those are heavy-hitters so it's really expecting too much.

As for Apple's prospects, supposedly, next year, the total market for MP3 players is expected to be 100 million. Apple has shipped about 30 million iPods in about 3 years while garnering about 75% market share (it's been higher). Imagine if their market share next year is anything close to 75% while the volume ratchets up to 100 million.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:29 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Blublub wrote:I'd be hard-pressed to find a better mobile platform for video than the PSP, with it's much larger (and wide) screen and plethora of ripping options.
Yeah, I agree, but the cost of memory cards pretty much rules it out for most people. It's ridiculously expensive for those Memory Stick Duos...that's why the PSP will never truely be a "video player" for watching TV episodes and movies that aren't on UMD.

Not to mention the ridiculous price on UMDs at this point. But the screen on the PSP has got to be better than the new iPod. If nothing else, it is widescreen for shows like Lost that are broadcast in HD. At least Apple has a video out function on it, although the quality will take a big hit on a bigger screen.

Some people, like the folks at Engadget, think that a video iPod will hurt Sony's efforts to push the PSP as a multimedia machine. Seems like different markets to me, but we'll see.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:34 pm

Nice. I had been looking for an excuse to replace my original first generation ipod and now I have one. Just ordered it now.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:42 pm

OK, I downloaded a video for the hell of it. Expanded on my 14" laptop monitor, it looked pretty bad. On a TV it will probably look like a TiVo recording at the lowest setting. With a regular set, though, the resolution is lower, so maybe it won't look that bad.

wco81 wrote:The potential isn't portable or mobile video but some form of video on demand through broadband distribution. Apple would have to convince the studios but then think about it, they'd be competion with cable, satellite and big CE companies like Sony which is trying to bring a blue-laser disc player to market. Those are heavy-hitters so it's really expecting too much.

As for Apple's prospects, supposedly, next year, the total market for MP3 players is expected to be 100 million. Apple has shipped about 30 million iPods in about 3 years while garnering about 75% market share (it's been higher). Imagine if their market share next year is anything close to 75% while the volume ratchets up to 100 million.

As the hype built for the event, I was thinking Apple would present a video version of the Airport Express. Streaming video throughout the house across different devices (CPU, TiVos, DVDs, etc.). Have to think that is in the future. A lot of the new iMac stuff is a step in that direction.

Apple again demonstrated why it is going to be so difficult for the Creative's and iRiver's of the world to capture market and mind-share. CNN.com had a story about the new iPod within minutes of the press conference's completion and I'm sure newspapers will follow suit in the morning. They could have released the "scratch-and-sniff" iPod and people would have been interested. When I was a kid, this was the time of year when I started thinking about what to put on a list for my B-Day and Christmas. Bingo, Apple just made the list.

Now, with the support of video podcasts on iTunes, will PK set up a cam so we can see him pop open the can of beer?

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:50 pm

I am still trying to get the nano anywhere and it's sold out. Even when I was in the land of the rising sun last week all nanos were gone. Thsi holiday season is going to be great for Apple . Yeah, and their prices are definitely inflated.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:17 pm

Sport73 wrote:
Spooky wrote:
The only way that the iPod Video would be worth it is if it allowed importing of DVD's like they do music CD's. It could convert them and compress them to be watched on the iPod. Then it might be worth it.

You can easily rip DVD's to mpeg4 on a Mac using Handbrake. Granted, it takes a while, but the results are just fine.

The iPod istelf supports VIDEO OUT, so you can plug it straight into a TV and play the content anywhere.

I don't think it has video out, at least according to this news item at DAP Review.

From what we can tell: it's just called "iPod" again, rather disappointing battery life for video playback (very decent for audio, though), voice recorder is in there, no video-out on the actual device itself, world is going crazy and you can already order it online (5-7 day wait for the 60GB, 1 day for the 30 gigger).

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:33 pm

10spro wrote:I am still trying to get the nano anywhere and it's sold out. Even when I was in the land of the rising sun last week all nanos were gone. Thsi holiday season is going to be great for Apple . Yeah, and their prices are definitely inflated.

Check your PMs.