Scotland Yard kicking a**

[spooky157]

But what should the police have done? Chased him? Let him go? Put yourself in their shoes -- they probably thought they were risking their lives by following him. There's clearly an ongoing pattern of bombings and terror threats in Britain. Yes, this man was dark skinned, yes he had a backpack. So did the other terrorists. Had the officers opened fire on him because of those two things, I would completely agree with you. But he also ran. An officer making a split-second decision doesn't have time to decide if a suspect understands him or surmise his country of origin.

Look, it completely sucks that this happened. It is awful that these fundamentalist, psychotic f***ers have gotten everyone so on edge that the act of a man running away convinces officers to shoot him. But I also understand why they did what they did and don't begrudge them.

I'd like to believe that I understand what the officers were going through, even though I probably don't have the slightest idea because I've never been in that situation. If an officer perceives a threat I'd rather they be safe than sorry and protect their own lives, more often than not. I value law enforcement and the job they're doing to protect people like you and me. It's a difficult task they've been handed and I certainly don't think I could even come close to doing their job.

But I do believe that this paranoia about suicide bombings has eroded the civil rights of Arabs, Hispanics, South Asian, or anyone dark skinned, living in the UK and the US. That's pretty scary to me too.

[Jayhawker]

What about the civil rights of the law abiding citizens?

That's the end of freedom, right there.

Care to elaborate on what you mean by that?

You can use that argument to ban all kinds of things, in the interest of law abiding citizens. It's a fallacious argument, and I responded to it with an equally fallacious argument.

[spooky157]

I didn't know he was Brazilian. Still, he fit the description of a bomber based on 3 things: Skin color, backpack, running from the cops into a train station. It is unfortunate that skin color is used in part to target a suspect, but I'd rather have the police lookijng for someone that fits the profile rather than wasting time strip searching 80 year old grandmas.

Skin color, backpack, running from cops - that happens almost every day in the NY subway station. IF NYC cops were allowed to target potential suicide bombers based on things so vague the G train would never run.

How does this guy equal a kitten getting mauled? At that moment in time I think it had to be either a) kill the guy and possibly prevent many more from being hurt, or b) chase him and possibly let the guy detonate a bomb. If he had not been carrying a backapck and running into a train station, maybe they would not have shot him. Given the recent events I support what they did. It's unfortunate that he was not a terrorist, but like Brando has stated, it's his own fault for running.

My point about the kitten was that preferring to see a man shot over a suicide bombing on a train are two exclusive things. Just look at this case. Shooting him did not prevent a suicide bombing. Again, I know the cops were in a difficult position. But being paranoid about suicide bombers has changed a lot of the fundamentals that our society has been built on.

Oh please. If a group of white teenagers had commited the first bombings, then yes, they'd have shot a white teen with a backpack running from them. When's the last time a group of white teens carried out a bombing attack? It's not like they are shooting at every person who has olive skin.

Maybe no white teens have carried out subway bombings but I don't remember white people being targeted after Oklahoma City. Or the Unabomber attacks. I know this is an isolated incident and that we are going through some f*cked up times but just because they're not shooting at EVERY single olive skinned man doesn't make it easier to take.

[matthewk]

But I do believe that this paranoia about suicide bombings has eroded the civil rights of Arabs, Hispanics, South Asian, or anyone dark skinned, living in the UK and the US. That's pretty scary to me too.

I think you're probably right. To a certain extent the terrorist attacks make life more difficult for any Arabs living in these countries. At the very least they get stared at by people wondering to themselves if that person is "one of them". It's not fair, but for the mostr part the reactions are human nature and not meant with any ill will.

[matthewk]

That's the end of freedom, right there.

Care to elaborate on what you mean by that?

You can use that argument to ban all kinds of things, in the interest of law abiding citizens. It's a fallacious argument, and I responded to it with an equally fallacious argument.

I don't know what you read into my statement, but I never mentioned banning anything. I'm simply saying that protecting the obviously innocent (train passengers) should come before protecting a potential serious criminal (the guy running from the cops).

So you're basically saying that since you interpreted my statement as being unsound, you had to respond with one of your own? What does that accomplish?

What I meant by the original statement was that I'd rather our government and police forces focus on protecting the "good" citizens rather than pander to every civil rights wingnut that wants to handcuff us in order to protect the rights of a criminal. We've already pushed ourselves so far that our justice system goes out of it's way to protect the rights of those that should have lost their rights when they went and committed a serious crime.

Obviusly in this case, the guy does not appear to have been a serious criminal. But I do not agree with the argument that the cops should have just tried to chase him down and risk another bomb going off. Running from the cops sent him over the line, and forced the cops' hand.

[XXXIV]

After reading this thread I have determined...

Wether it was right or wrong seems to depends on what political bent you are a slave too..

Free thought is dead..

Long live the sheep..

[ProvoAnC]

I think the PC term is sheeple...don't want to offend anyone

As far as 7 rounds to the head. That is exactly what they're supposed to do. Israelis do the same. You pin the guy to the ground and shoot him in the head.

I can't tell you what I woulda done in that situtation cause I wasn't there. As I hear the story, I'd be a lot closer to shooting the guy than not shooting him.

[Sudz]

i just think the man who was shot...should have stopped...

[TheMightyPuck]

Police don't have the right to open fire 8 times on an unarmed man. I don't care how many times they say "stop". I know these are crazy times but are we going to throw all civil rights out the window because of this paranoia?

Dude, he had a BACKPACK.

Seven shots to the head alone. Reports now say he used his pass and did not vault the turnstiles. He was wearing a jean jacket, and not a "bulky coat". He was being chased by non-uniformed men with guns.

There have been 250 bomb scares in London since they hit the trains. Police have shoot to kill orders. I'd say the terrorists have gotten just what they wanted.

^^yep. Guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time and it was tragic. It is understandable given the circumstances but still tragic and wrong. I can't believe people would call the guy a "f***er". Maybe he was and maybe he wasn't, but getting shot by the cops doesn't grant automatic membership to that club.

[RobVarak]

Doesn't it seem like they've accomplished more in the 3 weeks since their attack than we did in 3 months after? While we sit and argue about how arabs should not be singled out in searches so we don;'t violate anyones rights, the brits are taking care of business.

2 HUGE differences.

1. Civil Rights in Britain are more...flexible. There is a tradition of flexibility which isn't present in the US.

2. Britain is a hornet's nest of Islamo-Fascism, many of whom are British subjects. This is a significantly more target-rich environment than the US, where such extremists are less numerous, less vocal, less concentrated and generally not citizens or even long-time residents.

[Jimmydeicide]

i just think the man who was shot...should have stopped...

Excactly sudz.

And give our lads a break were new to this gun thing,we could of hit him with a truncheon i guess, if it wasnt a bomb in his back pack.

But hey what was the guy thinking even if we lived at Disneyland you dont run when police say stop.

I dont usually voice my opinion on these matters but it just seems black and white to me.

[dougb]

i just think the man who was shot...should have stopped...

Excactly sudz.

And give our lads a break were new to this gun thing,we could of hit him with a truncheon i guess, if it wasnt a bomb in his back pack.

But hey what was the guy thinking even if we lived at Disneyland you dont run when police say stop.

I dont usually voice my opinion on these matters but it just seems black and white to me.

Assuming he knew they were police, since some reports have indicated they were plain clothes officers. I think we'll really have to wait for a more indepth investigation and additional facts before we really have a good idea of what happened here.

Best wishes,

Doug