ESPN NFL, Somewhat Disappointed--Does it compare to NCAA 200

FloridaGators · Post by **FloridaGators** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:37 am

A bunch of us chipped in and bought this game for the Xbox. Something doesn´t feel right about this game like always in the Sega series.
 
 What I am happy about,
 
 -Love the playbooks and the presentation. State of the art.
 
 -Love the graphics, beautiful stadiums and player models.
 
 -Love the menus and such, I think I will be happy with the franchise mode.
 
 -Love the fact that if the ball is thrown into double coverage it will be picked off.
 
 I hate the running game, it seems herky jerky and I am also not a big fan of the passing game. I hate the QB´s throwing motion.
 
 I really want to recreate almost a NCAA 2004 NFL game.
 
 Do you guys think this game is better than NCAA 2004?
 
 Should I mess with the game speed and sliders?
 
 Personally, I don´t like the kick meter in ESPN, the charge up feature, and some other minor nuisances.
 
 I may go back to Madden.
 
 I will give ESPN some time though as I am not used to the controls, I still use the EA Sports Football Controls too often...

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:03 pm

Hard to say, I´m a little jaded with NCAA. I like Air Force but the Wishbone is almost imposible to run effectively. NCAA is a great game and one that excels for teams the mirror NFL type teams. The option works if not run in certain instances.
 
 That said, ESPN isn´t all rosey either. Running is a game of enigmas and broken tackles. Good backs can beat Ray Lweis. Big Backs can run over any body and small backs have a hard time in most cases.
 
 The game is fun and I think most people like it because their input has a direct correlation on the field. Press Button A, Action B immediately happens. But certain times passing can become highly effective to the point that Bubby Brister can throw like Manning.
 
 ESPN is a good game but I think NCAA atmosphere and season options just put it over the top. It does a better job of bringing you into a season because of the SI covers that make you hope your guys get there. Or the struggle to see where you are ranked the and never ending drama of top 25 ball. All in all it gets the pagenty of college football right. Certain things on the field need work.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:28 pm

It took me a long time to adjust from the EA style to ESPN. The thing to understand is that there is (for lack of a better word) a certain "flow" to the games that isn´t there in EA´s. The QB drops back on his own, the backs glide into position...it´s a subtle, but also a HUGE difference.
 
 Once I stopped trying to direct every last step and learned to work with this flow everything fell into place. This may sound like the user lacks control, but that´s not really it. It´s more a matter of learning the rhythm of the game.
 
 There are certainly too many broken tackles, and the QB´s (even the lousy ones) do often get amazingly hot, but your guys will also break tackles and your QB will also get hot.
 
 My comments to new adopters:
 
 Play a QB with a high, high accuracy rating.
 
 Don´t be afraid to trade speed and agility for strength and tackle breaking ability with RBs.
 
 Don´t try to throw to low-rated WRs in clutch situations...drops will ensue.
 
 Master the charge up moves. It´s a bit arcadey, but still feels organic and within the framework of the game to use the special moves. And there´s nothing more satisfying to me than having Simeon Rice charge up, drop a club on a Tackle and crush the QB <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_smile.gif">

FloridaGators · Post by **FloridaGators** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:08 pm

I hate how the players run. It´s just really weird, it looks like they sort of high step. I know the word herky jerky has been thrown around. I guess there is no slider for how the runners run.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:22 pm

If you´re looking to recreate NCa2004 in ESPN football, then stop right now. You will not be able to morph ESPN into an NCAA game by EA Sports.
 
 I have kept both Madden and ESPN this year, and I love both. In order to give ESPN a fair chance, you have to forget about Madden/NCAA completely. Quit comparing the two while playing, and just play.
 
 ESPN is a great game. It may not be the football game you are conditioned to after years of playing Madden/NCAA, so it will feel different. Different is good. Sit back and enjoy the game, and I´m sure you will love it.
 
 -Matt

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:40 pm

Here´s a provocative question. Is it possible to even be good at both simultaneously? Compare the ´mash ´n hold´ burst in Madden to the "tap to speed burst, hold to charge-up" philosophy in Sega´s titles?
 
 Is it just one of those things where you just need to adopt one and forget the other? Or can you be really good online in both?
 
 Randy

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:42 pm

MattK is absolutely right. You can´t compare Madden/NCAA and ESPN because there is no comparison. The games are both sims but take different approaches on how to achieve that goal.
 
 In summary, I find that I have to think more when I play ESPN than Madden/NCAA. I also like how the quarterback really has to follow certain step drops for passes to work. You can´t just drop back for 10 yards and wait, which I still found to be an effective tactic in Madden 2004.
 
 That´s not a rip of Madden/NCAA, as both titles and ESPN are fine games. But stop comparing Madden/NCAA with ESPN because they´re so different, from controls to momentum to gameplay mechanics.
 
 Gators, I can empathize with you. Every time I play the newest version of Madden it feels odd since I´ve been a Sega/Visual Concepts football gamer since NFL 2K1. There´s a certain comfort level I have with Sega football that most definitely casts some bias against Madden -- I´ll be the first person to admit that.
 
 Take care,
 PK [ This message was edited by: pk500 on 08-10-2003 11:45 ]

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:15 pm

Randy,
 
 I´m sure that it´s *possible* to be good at both, but it sure ain´t for me. <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_smile.gif"> I had to stop playing EA games completely, because my silly little monkey brain kept crossing up the controls. If I kept doing that I would get slaughtered online.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:59 pm

You know I have found that the differences in approach for these two series are quite disparate, yet nonetheless in many ways equally effective. As someone said, they take different routes. but both create a good game of football.
 
 I have been used to madden for so long, even the 2 year hiccup to 2k+x on the DreamCast has not really pushed me off the madden track.
 
 Also, for whatever reason I just am not compelled to play the computer in any football game anymore; the human v. human game is where it´s at for me, and online makes it possible. I really love NCAA, and the SR season was a real blast.
 
 I still have ESPN (Xbox) and lemme say I really enjoy it against a human opponent, online or off. This game is a LOT of fun. I am by no means a master of this game, it is all still very new to me (or at least I am rusty since the DC versions I played), and I don´t play it that much (neither have I played all that much of madden, for that matter). Sure the old school track-and-field style A button mashing is weird to me, the animations are robotic, what with the turning that looks like they pivot around a merry-go-round pole stuck up their asses, and some other oddities.
 
 However, the pace of the game makes me feel more in control of the players´ actions than in Madden. I for one feel that Madden is almost freakish in the way it looks like real pro football. But it is so fast, that one can never hope to actually have an influnce on defending a play on, say, a 3-step drop type situation. You either have to have called the right D or not. Against the computer, I just can never trust that it doesn´t know what play I´m calling. Even against a human, it makes madden for me almost too realistic (in terms of pace and speed) for it to be a good video game version of the thing.
 
 In ESPN though, I always feel that I have a chance to break up a pass or influence the play.
 
 The Biggest differences for me:
 
 Kicking: madden is simply the best I´ve ever seen. SEGA is still using the same system from the ORIGINAL DC 2k game. Tsk tsk tsk.
 
 Atmosphere: ESPN hands down; some call it ´presentation´, but I want to be specific that for me it is the crowd atmosphere that is most superior.
 
 Roster Updates for Online Play: Shame on Sega for falling behind in this one. EA stepped up and made this mandatory, and I think it´s great. Remember how lame it was to play against the Rams last year on Madden online? They were WAAAAAAY overrated in the preseason (and not just by EA but by all the football prognosticators) and yet in the real deal, they were terrible. For me, it is a real pain in the butt to be stuck with the preseason estimations of teams´ abilities for the whole year. (Remember also, I am a ´Skins fan, and the Sega rosters and ratings for the ´Skins are way off base.) And since I don´t really like to play against the computer, my only hope to play with rosters that reflect the real NFL of 2003 in the Sega game is on the rare occasions a friend actually comes over here for a few games.
 
 2 v. 2 online: As far as I know, it cannot be done in Madden. I do know last year it was impossible. This to me is inexcusable for EA, assuming i am right and it is indeed still not possible. Big kudos to Sega for having common sense and making 2 v. 2 or even 4 v. 4 a basic feature of their online play. I have yet to try it in football, but in ESPN hockey, 2 v. 2 online is a total mess of fun.
 
 I wouldn´t say I´m a total convert yet, as I still like madden v. a human (not yet a madden hater), and am not really used to the pace of the sega game; but I will say that I have tons of fun every time I play a game of ESPN football, even those rare times I play v. the CPU. It is more arcadey, yes, but hey, it´s a video game version of the real thing, not the real thing; the arcadish qualities allow you to have more direct control over what goes on in the game. Give it a chance FG and just try to go out and win football games against friends instead of analyzing every weirdness about the game (as I know I tend to do). I bet you will find that you are having a good time.
 
 [btw, most of my big plays in ESPN for some reason have come on the ground, popping through the middle and gone. I play mostly on Pro, so maybe that has something to do with the break-away speed. Of course, it does not ruin the game for me by any stretch to have a bunch of 60yd runs, since both teams seem to get them once in a while.]
 [ This message was edited by: hugo on 08-10-2003 14:06 ]

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 12:00 am

I´m playing both ESPN and Madden online. I played about 100 games of NCAA online, including the SR league, and sold it to concentrate on the others. Yeah the atmosphere or presentation was fun but if you want to complain about having the least amount of control, NCAA had the least, from more momentum than others including Madden and the weakest pass defense AI of the 3.
 
 I´m still learning ESPN and there are a lot of things I like about it, especially the online leagues feature. I don´t use the charge up but have done pretty well just using playcalling for the most part.
 
 Unfortunately, it´s much easier to find online games of Madden than ESPN NFL on the PS2. It lets you be in a maximum of 4 leagues at a time and I would be content just to play league games, because random exhibition games are hard to get plus with leagues, at least all your stats are fully tracked. So I joined as many leagues as possible to maximize the games I could play.
 
 Things they need to fix however:
 
 1. Networking code on PS2 needs to be much better. Pauses and stuttering, a lot of "Waiting for Remote Host" screens. It´s not the connections. I´ve played Cincy a couple of times in Madden and NCAA without problems. We tried once in ESPN NFL and it disconnected and it wasn´t smooth before it cut out either.
 
 2. Custom playbooks online is the only way to use saved audibles for online games. But if you select custom playbooks, you will get divergence error.
 
 3. Independent cameras for online play. I´ve adjusted to the default camera but I´ve heard that on XBL, there are guys who will keep changing it to the sideline view. VC promised it would be fixed and they didn´t.
 
 4. Updated rosters for online play. Doesn´t bother me that much but VC needs to be on par with EA for something so basic.
 
 Still, I´ve enjoyed the ESPN games I´ve been playing.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:57 am

I had almost the opposite feeling. Keep in mind that I love NCAA Football and it ranks as my favorite game - but after going back to it after playing ESPN, it felt weird and the player motion looked awkward and the player models continually reminded me that I was playing a game.
 
 What I love about ESPN Football is that you can take advantage of matchups. If you have a shitty DB covering your WR and he is lined up in tight man coverage, you can audible to a fly and be confident that your WR will beat his man. That is not to say you will always score or even get the reception, but you are playing against the matchup and not the AI. I also like that 4th and 1 is a big decision. Like in the real NFL, for the most part you want to either punt or take the FG, because 4th and 1 is by no means a gimmee. This is not a game that rewards those who take chances. I have found over and over again that rash decisions that do not pay off will come back to haunt you and at the end of the game when you lose you will be thinking about the things you did that cost you the game.
 
 Too often in NCAA I find myself playing against the AI rather than the other team. Certain plays will not work - not because of the talent of the team you are playing, but because those certain plays never work in the EA engine. And i bet I could convert a 4th and 1 against Oklahoma using Rutgers 8 times out of 10 (at Heisman level).
 
 Like others have said, switching from one game to the other is a bear. And I still can´t get my rushing average over 3 yards a carry because I keep trying to run like I am playing Madden or NCAA, but I like the feel of the game A LOT and I keep coming back for more. With the game speed turned to fast, I really feel the pressure to complete passes and to make cuts. It is a blast!!
 
 I hope Sega does some work in the Sim aspects of the game. I imagine that the sim engine is pretty simplistic compared to Madden - simply based on the unscientific results that conclude that if you can sim a season and offseason in 5 minutes, the processor ain´t working that hard!
 
 Aside from the difficulties of switching back and forth between games, I have to say that I am very glad to have 2 excellent games to choose between and I will keep them both for quite some time.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:30 pm

You echo my thoughts Kevin!
 
 I bought Madden again this year right at release to use graduated players from NCAA 2004. I rented ESPN to see how it was and promptly sold both Madden and NCAA on ebay, I just couldn´t get back into either game for some reason (and I disliked NFL 2k3).
 
 ESPN is my only football game besides FOF4. It is that good this year, imo.
 
 Todd