So who cuts the nets down, in your opinion, right NOW?

FloridaGators · Post by **FloridaGators** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:58 am

I've watched a lot of college basketball this year, and I would lean towards the North Carolina Tar Heels. Illinois has been tremendous but I think they have been helped by a nice little conference schedule (the Big 10 is down). On the perimeter they are phenomal but down low they have Nick Smith and James Augustine, not premier players that can hang with the Sean Mays, Channing Fryes, and Wayne Simien's of college basketball.

Kansas and Kentucky are two other teams I am really high on. Regardless of the Jayhawks loss in Double OT to Texas Tech tonight, and a weird game against Villanova where the Jayhawks forgot to show up they seem to be a great, veteran team. They went deep in the tournament last year (OT loss in the Elite

and seem poised to repeat.

Kentucky seems to be flying under the radar here...they are undefeated in the SEC, but even though the SEC is down as well I still think top to bottom its stronger than the Big 10.

So today, who you got?

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:03 am

Illinois and UNC are clearly the best two teams. KY, Kanas OSU and the rest are close, but clearly not as complete as those two.

That said, I think if they play 10 games, NC probably wins 6 or 7 of them. They have more raw talent and are deeper, but lack Illinois' experience and discipline. NC is generally less consistent, but has played slightly tougher competition, as Javi said.

I'm an Illinois fan, but I don't harbor any illusions. NC would be a tough nut to crack, but that would be a dream final.

All that said, this is still the NCAA and we are talking about kids. Wouldn't surprise me too much if neither Illinois nor NC even made the final game.

At the end of the day, despite the fact that NC is slightly better, I say Illinois wins. Sue me, I bleed Orange & Blue.

TheGamer · Post by **TheGamer** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:52 am

"At the end of the day, despite the fact that NC is slightly better, I say Illinois wins."

NC may have better individual talent, but I believe Illinois has shown they are the best "Team" in the country up to this point. Yeah, I'm an Illinois homer and I also bleed orange.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:11 am

Illinois, no question, with Kentucky as the other top team. Carolina is in the mix, too.

Sadly, my Syracuse Orangemen are not. SU depends too much on Warrick and McNamara, and when one of them has an off night, as Warrick did last night against Pitt, SU is hosed. Happy to see Roberts and McCroskey play so well, but that's not going to happen every game.

Pitt is my Final Four darkhorse. Good inside-outside combo with Troutman and Krauser, but depth is a question mark.

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:15 am

Until someone beats them, I won't go against Illinois. The Patriots taught me this lesson in the NFL this year, so I'll apply it to other sports as well.

AcemanPR · Post by **AcemanPR** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am

Tourney talk! I love it!!!!

The quality of basketball has been incredible this year. There are a 8-12 teams that have a legitimate shot winning the tournament this year. You have to be able to string together 6 straight tough wins. At this point, my two favorites would have to be Illinois and North Carolina, with Illinois winning it all. If Illinois gets the #1 Midwest seed, they will have so much fan support every game they play due to the locations they will be playing. North Carolina is just so explosive. They played horrible last week to Duke, yet still only lost by 1 point.

Other teams that have a legitimate shot are Kansas, Kentucky, Oklahoma State, Wake Forest, Duke, and perhaps Boston College. You also can't count out teams like Wisconsin, Michigan State, Mississippi State, Syracuse, and Maryland, where all it takes is a good run and a little luck.

It's going to be an exciting tournament this year, possibly the best one we have seen since the 64 team format. Should be alot of intriguing match-ups, and it wouldn't shock me to see a couple 3 or 4 seeds go down early this year.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:23 pm

I would go with Illinios as well. Any team can contend, but right now it's the Illini.

Missouri is a close 2nd.

Todd

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:39 pm

I think I have to go with Illini. They are not only playing the best basketball, but they seem to have that special quality that gets them out of jams. The only thing giving me pause is that they are #1 and haven't lost -- both those feats are hard to maintain throughout the season.

UNC and Wake would be my next two. Kansas is tough, but I think they are vulnerable. Kentucky is talented but has only played 3 ranked teams and lost two of those games, beating the overrated Louisville.

Atxj · Post by **Atxj** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:09 pm

My $$$ is on Illinois, im looking for them to run the table.

FloridaGators · Post by **FloridaGators** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:54 pm

pk500 wrote:Illinois, no question, with Kentucky as the other top team. Carolina is in the mix, too.

Sadly, my Syracuse Orangemen are not. SU depends too much on Warrick and McNamara, and when one of them has an off night, as Warrick did last night against Pitt, SU is hosed. Happy to see Roberts and McCroskey play so well, but that's not going to happen every game.

Pitt is my Final Four darkhorse. Good inside-outside combo with Troutman and Krauser, but depth is a question mark.

Take care,
PK

I think Syracuse can still get deep in the tournament (Elite

with a good draw. Their zone is tough for a non Big East team to get used to.

I agree, though. This Syracuse team should be a Final Four team and they have now fallen way off of those lofty goals.

Billy Edelin has looked awful to me. Even McNamara has been off of his game, to me, some weird, ugly forced shots.

FloridaGators · Post by **FloridaGators** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:02 pm

Funny that nobody has mentioned Duke. They are really a tossup in this tournament. For all their lack of depth and problems inside they do play great Coach K defense, have J.J. Redick hitting for at least 20 a night, and Daniel Ewing plays underrated basketball again.

Teams better play good basketball to beat them...I wouldn't count them out as a Final Four team, since they won't be matched up in the UNC bracket.

If they got matched up in the Chicago bracket against Illinois they would have the crowd against them but Illinois can't hurt them inside like Kansas, UNC, Wake Forest, or Arizona could.

Right now CollegeRPI.com has these pairings for the top 4 seeds in each region:

Syracuse:

1. Boston College
2. UNC
3. Kentucky
4. Wisconsin

Austin:
1. Wake Forest
2. Oklahoma State
3. Syracuse
4. Michigan State

Chicago:
1. Illinois
2. Duke
3. Washington
4. Louisville

Albuquerque:
1. Kansas
2. Arizona
3. Alabama
4. Gonzaga

My tourney sleepers: Pacific (these little guys can play), Arizona (as a 2 seed? Yes, to me they are underrated...nobody knows that they are the class of the PAC 10), and Charlotte (the hottest team in the Conference USA).

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:04 pm

pk500 wrote:Pitt is my Final Four darkhorse. Good inside-outside combo with Troutman and Krauser, but depth is a question mark.

I would *love* to see that happen, but Pitt is just so inconsistent this season. They can win at Syracuse and at UConn one day and then lose to Bucknell at home or struggle against or lose to St. John's or West Virginia. They turn the ball over *way* too much and still struggle from the FT line. That can really catch up to you in a single elimination tourney. I do agree about the inside/outside combination. For the first time in years they have more than one legitimate 3 point threat (Krauser, Ramon, and Graves) and 2 strong inside players (Troutman and Taft).

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:29 pm

Well, my bias sees Kansas making the six game run. If the seeds were to fall like the CollegeRPI.com has them, Kansas would have the easiest road, as well.

I've wanted to think Illinois was overated all season, as their SOS is abysmal, but they have come through in too many big games, including on the road to discount them at all. They are simply playing the best ball in te country right now.

Kansas is much less vulnerable than people think. They are extra deep in the front court, which allows them to play tough defense without worrying about fouls. They have just had a fluid lineup due to injuries and experimenting. They have really come together, despite losing a wild road game against Texas Tech last night.

If North Carolina peaks in the tourney, they can easily run the table. But they do not seem consistent enough to actually do it.

Those would be my three favorites. Anybody else would just be specualtion, and comes down to who gets hot.

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:28 pm

Check out Andy Katz's column Revisiting Preseason Questions at ESPN for some good info about all the teams we have been talling about. It's a good read.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:30 am

Jayhawker wrote:
Kansas is much less vulnerable than people think. They are extra deep in the front court, which allows them to play tough defense without worrying about fouls. They have just had a fluid lineup due to injuries and experimenting. They have really come together, despite losing a wild road game against Texas Tech last night.

BUMP

Is allowing OU to get to the basket at will with dribble penetration considered tough defense? The only tough defense I saw being played tonight was by OU in the first half. Plus OU did it with two reserves Godbold (A freshman who started tonight) and Gilbert scoring in double figures. Just imagine what the score would have been if OU was hitting from behind the 3 point line in the second half? Or if Gray was on his game? I am not saying OU (or anyone for that matter) is a better team then Kansas, but if I was a Jayhawk fan I would hold off purchasing your 2004/2005 Big 12 and National Championship T-Shirts until we get a little closer to the respective title games.

Last 3 straight loss streak was in 1994. Yikes.... Yep that Self is pure genius. Who needs that other guy who took off for Carolina. Sure Self is a terrific recruiter, I have heard that from every Jayhawk fan I know ad nauseum. Just remember they say the same thing about Mack Brown.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:00 pm

Jayhawks are done. They won't make it past the sweet 16. They have a tough game against OSU and have to go to Columbia for the last game of the year. They will lose at least one of those.

Speaking of which, OSU has looked impressive. They've played a tough schedule and their losses are to top 25 teams (and 2 of those were 3 pts or less). But they seem a little small to make a full run.

I still say Illinois, NC, or Wake. I'm not sold on Kentucky or BC, Arizona and Mich State have feasted on soft schedules, and Duke has looked too inconsistent to be counted on this year.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:52 pm

Self is an outstanding recruiter no doubt. That starting five for the Illini is NOT Weber's recruits. That's right. They are Self's. End of that story.

All that said, I'm definitely worried about my Jayhawks. They have shown their weakness playing against a strong zone like Iowa State and Oklahoma's. When you're not able to pass the ball in to Simien under the basket, you're asking for trouble. Giddens has been anything but consistent these past few weeks. Langford generally shows up for one half of basketball and his free throw shooting has been absolutely atrocious. Miles has really stepped up his outside shooting but he's not aggressive enough shooting from the perimeter.

I'm really starting to question Self's lineups. Ok, Moody is hurt and Giles is still recovering from injury. However, you still need someone to compliment Simien under the basket. We're getting our a**es killed in rebounding (defensive and offensive). I wish Self would give someone like Jackson and Kaun a bit more time during the game. It seems Kaun will play for 5 minutes and then you don't see him again until late in the game. I have no idea why Jackson isn't getting more PT. He's a big body who could definitely help fill up the lane. Also, play Michael Lee over Giddens. Lee is consistent and a tough nosed player. Giddens is still one dimensional though he is showing signs of dribbling the basketball.

I'm just frusturated. Perhaps a 3 or 4 seed is exactly what they need. By not being a target, they might just surprise some teams. Their season is not over by a long shot. You've got four seniors who've been to the final 4 twice and the elite 8 once. When it's all said and done, who remembers who won the Big 12 or the Big 12 tournament. Unfortunately, everyone looks at the end result. The NCAA tournament. Sorry Illini fans. If you don't win it all, your season has been a disappointment!

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:07 pm

Sportdan, it's just rare that a team stumbles the way KU has this late and recovers in the tourney. They are getting set up for a first round upset as a 3 or 4 seed, where they will likely play a fiesty mid-major instead of a #15 speed bump. If they win out and have a good B12 toruney, maybe you're right, they turn it around. But I don't see it happening right now.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:16 pm

I agree Brando that at this juncture in the season, a final four or for that matter an elite 8 appearance is not looking good for the Jayhawks. While they have depth as Jayhawker said, Self doesn't trust those bench players to contribute. Because of that reason, you see Simien, Langford, and Miles playing too many minutes and being tired at the end of the game. For them to go into the tourney as a 3 seed, they will undoubtedly be tested in the first round and have to then regroup and play a couple days later. IMO, this teams isn't strong enough to win it all, but they can still make some noise. In the end, they just don't match up with Illinois, NC, and others.

My prediction is a sweet 16 appearance and possibly an elite 8.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:11 pm

OSU may not beat Kansas on the road but they are my pick to go the farthest in the tourney. I have them going to the final four and losing in the semifinal.

The irony for Kansas fans will be that Roy and his boys will be cutting down the nets this year. Illinois on the other hand gets defeated in the Great 8. The ACC schedule (especially in the top 5 teams) preapres you for the challenge. The Big 10 schedule creates the illiusion of greatness.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:20 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Self is an outstanding recruiter no doubt. That starting five for the Illini is NOT Weber's recruits. That's right. They are Self's. End of that story.

There is no doubt that the Illini's starting 5 are Self's recruits, but they are definitely Weber's team. Weber has made this team into what it is today through coaching. Don't believe me? Just check out the Saluki teams he coached to the Tourney (Sweet 16 I believe) a couple of years ago. It took him a year but the Illini players have totally bought into his system and it shows.

Until they are beaten I have to go with the Illini. Though NC looks great as well.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:32 pm

BUMP

For Jayhawker who never replied on the last BUMP.

Greatest blowup from a potential #1 seed with only a few weeks to the tourney? Now not even the #1 seed in their own Conference Tournament.

How about Carolina coming back on Duke w/o McCants? Great game.

Illinois steps back into reality with a loss to a less then stellar Ohio St team. Only a reminder of how bad the Big 10 is this year and why Illinois bowing out early wont be a shock.

Still sticking with my pick of North Carolina.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:20 pm

1. The Loss. Eh, Abner can back me up on this, I'm sure, but OSU has shown some wonderful flashes this year. Excellent coaching and a smattering of talent have impressed me all year. They played Illinois close in Champaign, and I've said for weeks that I feared this game more than the Wisconsin home game. OSU had nothing else to play for, and they left it on the court. I'm not happy about it, but I'm a realist about what it actually means...not much.

2. Weber's recruiting. The recent criticism of Weber's recruiting is preposterous. You can't fault him for winning with the player he has. As someone already said, "his" players at SIU are having another stellar year. The fact that he hasn't snagged any McDonalds All-Americans is interesting, but not anything I'd lose sleep over. There is no more speculative than the rankings of recruiting classes. I'll withold judgment for the time being.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:35 pm

Call me a homer( almost Im a UIC fan) but in the tourney the most important things are guard play and defense...The 2 constants...
Guard play and defense is what the Illini are all about.

Im still Picking Illinois.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:35 pm

They played Illinois close in Champaign

They lost by 19 and were down by double digits for most of the second half? Apparently a close game in the Big 10 is the equivilent of tough defense played by Kansas.

Abner can back you up to your hearts delight. Nothing that he could say can make an 8-8 team in a poor conference anything but less then stellar. Sure he could rant endlessly about some OSU/ESPN conspiracy. Heck I could even make him a little ESPN Sux avatar. Whoops too late.

Of course I am sure Illini fans will use that "we needed a loss before the tourney" mentality.