Exhibit A would be Jordan.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2112224/
But was he really a model citizen or did he cultivate a certain public image mainly to make himself suitable for endorsing anything and everything he could?
Is this "souless" duality unequivocally preferable to the mooning, punching, substance-abusing punks of today?
Counterpoint to punk athletes
Moderators: Bill_Abner, ScoopBrady
Slate... does the write hate Jordan.
Jordan probably wasn't the model citizen his image carried but to say that all he will ever be is a great salesmen and he left so little mark on basketball is just plain stupidity. However he never mooned the Piston fans. Never ran into the crowd to fight with a fan. Never threw down a coach Pedro-style in the middle of a game. The whipped his opponents collective arses and went home to his personal life whatever that was. He might not be the model humanitarian but dare I say the model athlete. You do what you are supposed to on the court/field and that's win without all these antics and then you go home.
What is he smoking. Isn't every new superstar player compared to Jordan? Isn't Jordan the standard for greatness. This guy really hates Jordan. Did a piston fan write this article or what?Michael Jordan was a great player. He also was a great salesman. And that was all he ever was, and that seems to be all that he ever will be. There's nothing wrong with that. He made some great plays and some pretty good commercials. Has anyone so completely dominated his sport and left so small a mark upon it?
Jordan probably wasn't the model citizen his image carried but to say that all he will ever be is a great salesmen and he left so little mark on basketball is just plain stupidity. However he never mooned the Piston fans. Never ran into the crowd to fight with a fan. Never threw down a coach Pedro-style in the middle of a game. The whipped his opponents collective arses and went home to his personal life whatever that was. He might not be the model humanitarian but dare I say the model athlete. You do what you are supposed to on the court/field and that's win without all these antics and then you go home.
Worst. Article. Ever.
"He made some great plays and some pretty good commercials. Has anyone so completely dominated his sport and left so small a mark upon it?"
Yeah, six championships leave no mark. What a f***in tool.
Jordan kept his private life private. He certainly has his share of warts, he just did a better job of keeping things under wraps than most athletes. But he is the greatest basketball player in history and the best athlete of my lifetime. He was the most motivated and most talented person I have ever seen in any sport. The ill-advised Wizards comeback and front office stint certainly tarnished an otherwise storybook career, but to act as if he left no mark is the rantings of a cheap yellow journalist.
"He made some great plays and some pretty good commercials. Has anyone so completely dominated his sport and left so small a mark upon it?"
Yeah, six championships leave no mark. What a f***in tool.
Jordan kept his private life private. He certainly has his share of warts, he just did a better job of keeping things under wraps than most athletes. But he is the greatest basketball player in history and the best athlete of my lifetime. He was the most motivated and most talented person I have ever seen in any sport. The ill-advised Wizards comeback and front office stint certainly tarnished an otherwise storybook career, but to act as if he left no mark is the rantings of a cheap yellow journalist.
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GROGtheNailer
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I don't watch hockeyGROGtheNailer wrote:For me, Wayne Gretzky, Hands down.He was the most motivated and most talented person I have ever seen in any sport.
Definitely deserving of his nickname, though.But after watching the Jordan Flu game, that's when best-I've-seen became true for me. And I'm a much bigger football fan than basketball fan. Just never seen someone that sick play at that level. It was like he banished the illness from his body for three hours.
#1 JordanBrando70 wrote:I don't watch hockeyGROGtheNailer wrote:For me, Wayne Gretzky, Hands down.He was the most motivated and most talented person I have ever seen in any sport.
But after watching the Jordan Flu game, that's when best-I've-seen became true for me. And I'm a much bigger football fan than basketball fan. Just never seen someone that sick play at that level. It was like he banished the illness from his body for three hours.
#2 Gretzky
#3 Armstrong
I wasn't a fan of Jordan so I don't have this nostalgia for his absence. In fact, the NBA is more interesting these days because of these new players and the sense that several teams could vie for the title.
But I didn't have nostalgia for Bird, Magic, McHale, Jabbar, etc. either. Or for that matter, any of the other great players. When they come up for HoF induction, it's only been 5 years but my reaction is mostly "oh yeah I remember him back in the day."
I don't watch ESPN Classics either.
So maybe my POV is skewed but I thought it was interesting that right after the Moss incident (and then just yesterday, he says $10k is nothing to him and maybe he'll show his dick next time), we're reminded of Jordan the model citizen.
But as admirable as he was for being so civilized, was it his nature or a well-coached and cultivated public image that his handlers impressed upon him from very early on so that he could sell Gatorade to Middle America?
Some people chided Tiger recently for not doing much about the tsunami. Tiger has been compared a lot against Jordan, often in terms of his career earnings potential, especially his earnings potential as a pitchman.
When ESPN did that Sports Century (forget who was their greatest athlete), people were comparing Jordan against Ali as well. But some pointed out that Ali inspired people for the things he did outside of his sport as well as his athletic achievements.
So the measuring stick is not limited to what athletes have achieved in the field of play. Certainly Moss was assailed for the extra-curriculars, not his performance.
But I didn't have nostalgia for Bird, Magic, McHale, Jabbar, etc. either. Or for that matter, any of the other great players. When they come up for HoF induction, it's only been 5 years but my reaction is mostly "oh yeah I remember him back in the day."
I don't watch ESPN Classics either.
So maybe my POV is skewed but I thought it was interesting that right after the Moss incident (and then just yesterday, he says $10k is nothing to him and maybe he'll show his dick next time), we're reminded of Jordan the model citizen.
But as admirable as he was for being so civilized, was it his nature or a well-coached and cultivated public image that his handlers impressed upon him from very early on so that he could sell Gatorade to Middle America?
Some people chided Tiger recently for not doing much about the tsunami. Tiger has been compared a lot against Jordan, often in terms of his career earnings potential, especially his earnings potential as a pitchman.
When ESPN did that Sports Century (forget who was their greatest athlete), people were comparing Jordan against Ali as well. But some pointed out that Ali inspired people for the things he did outside of his sport as well as his athletic achievements.
So the measuring stick is not limited to what athletes have achieved in the field of play. Certainly Moss was assailed for the extra-curriculars, not his performance.
WCO, you don't have nostaligia because machines can't feel nostalgia
Jordan was far from squeaky clean. He liked to screw around, he loved to gamble. But honestly, those two things aren't going to erode your popularity with the male sports fan nearly as much as getting busted with drugs, going into the stands to beat people, or testing positive for HIV.
Jordan was sandwiched between the coke-fueled 70s NBA and the Thug-life 90s NBA. It's not just that he was "clean," so were most of the players then. And I don't think he was coached that much. He's an intelligent, motivated guy. He knows how to avoid controversy.
The Ali comparison is also apples to oranges. Ali became popular during a very political time, and also a time when African-Americans were both becoming empowered but still not socially accepted enough to be public spokesmen. He had little to lose by speaking his mind on the issues of the day.
Jordan was far from squeaky clean. He liked to screw around, he loved to gamble. But honestly, those two things aren't going to erode your popularity with the male sports fan nearly as much as getting busted with drugs, going into the stands to beat people, or testing positive for HIV.
Jordan was sandwiched between the coke-fueled 70s NBA and the Thug-life 90s NBA. It's not just that he was "clean," so were most of the players then. And I don't think he was coached that much. He's an intelligent, motivated guy. He knows how to avoid controversy.
The Ali comparison is also apples to oranges. Ali became popular during a very political time, and also a time when African-Americans were both becoming empowered but still not socially accepted enough to be public spokesmen. He had little to lose by speaking his mind on the issues of the day.
Good points, you're right, I'd forgotten about what happened to him. And what he did took a lot of guts, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.wco81 wrote:Ali had little to lose?
Maybe the money wasn't as great as it is today but he was stripped of his battle and license to fight and fined $10k.
He wasn't able to fight for like 3 years (between when he was 25 and 28).
Some prime earning years.
I don't think he was trying to do that. He was saying there's a lot of excitement around the new generation and it seems Jordan is scarcely missed.Slate can pooh-pooh his post-Bulls career choices all they want, but it shouldn't diminish what he did on the court.
His time with the Wizards may have also made it easier for people to forget Jordan. He still drew a lot of attention, way more attention than the Wizards otherwise would have gotten. But in those years, he was no the focus of the NBA so fans were learning to look beyond Jordan.
I'm sure Bulls fans miss him but for others, the Bulls dominance was kind of oppressive.
But even during their run, people were comparing his Bulls teams with the '80s teams and saying the Bulls wouldn't have held up, despite winning more titles and setting regular season records.