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dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:21 am

34,

We still on for Wednesday 8 PST?

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:42 am

I have to tell you guys that I am really, really, really getting tired of this. I took 8 sacks tonight from the guy in Green Bay because he just speed rushed to the inside every snap. I literally had 1 second to pass on every down. That was about as much fun as taking an axe to my skull. It was like my tackle was not even there. What in the world do you do to combat that? I know it's not just me because I see teams getting, on average, 4 sacks per game which is just silly. This is not football, it's just something that looks a lot like it.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:48 am

Bill_Abner wrote:I have to tell you guys that I am really, really, really getting tired of this. I took 8 sacks tonight from the guy in Green Bay because he just speed rushed to the inside every snap. I literally had 1 second to pass on every down. That was about as much fun as taking an axe to my skull. It was like my tackle was not even there. What in the world do you do to combat that? I know it's not just me because I see teams getting, on average, 4 sacks per game which is just silly. This is not football, it's just something that looks a lot like it.

You run right at them. If they are controlling that lineman, you can run at them and usually gain at least 5 yards. If they are smart, they stop doing that. Most of the time, they take the lineman right out of the play. Also, do a lot of rollouts the opposite way...they get caught up in the blocking scheme usually.

Why don't you just boot the guy that's taking advantage of the game?

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:54 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Bill_Abner wrote:I have to tell you guys that I am really, really, really getting tired of this. I took 8 sacks tonight from the guy in Green Bay because he just speed rushed to the inside every snap. I literally had 1 second to pass on every down. That was about as much fun as taking an axe to my skull. It was like my tackle was not even there. What in the world do you do to combat that? I know it's not just me because I see teams getting, on average, 4 sacks per game which is just silly. This is not football, it's just something that looks a lot like it.
You run right at them. If they are controlling that lineman, you can run at them and usually gain at least 5 yards. If they are smart, they stop doing that. Most of the time, they take the lineman right out of the play. Also, do a lot of rollouts the opposite way...they get caught up in the blocking scheme usually.

Why don't you just boot the guy that's taking advantage of the game?

Because I'm sick to f***in death of finding multiple people every week. I've had to hunt down and replace 8 owners already as is just to keep this thing afloat. And I dunno if he was even cheating, technically. He wasn't lining up weird or anything. It was just a speed rush that was unblockable. And running? Yeah thad be great if he didnt shed the O-Tackle so fast that running at him was pointless. It's just frustrating. I was totally hamstrung because when I took 2 steps back to pass, I had the Packer DE in my lap every play.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:57 am

Can we make it a rule that players aren't allowed to control the D-linemen? Seems to me that all the defensive cheese comes from the D-line play.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:59 am

spooky157 wrote:Can we make it a rule that players aren't allowed to control the D-linemen? Seems to me that all the defensive cheese comes from the D-line play.

No way will everyone go for that but I am seriously considering it because it's just flat out dumb right now to watch the DEs living in the backfield. And I do this, too. Courtney Brown is a friggin terror for me. The fact that you can power-up/swim or power up/inside rush and go in untouched is killing the online play for me.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:10 am

spooky157 wrote:Can we make it a rule that players aren't allowed to control the D-linemen? Seems to me that all the defensive cheese comes from the D-line play.

I recommended that back in league 1.0 and no one seemed to like the idea. My other league I just finished had that rule, no controlling D-linemen and it work pretty good.

Bottom line is the game is broke in spots, and there is not much you can do. Put a cap on D-Linemen and then they will move their LB's to the outside and speed rush them. Cheesers always find a way.

I'd said it before and I'll say it again, once you get past the "show" ESPN puts on, there are a lot of warts.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:12 am

Danimal wrote:I'd said it before and I'll say it again, once you get past the "show" ESPN puts on, there are a lot of warts.

So profound...that Dan guy is. EVERY game is that way...there are always people trying to exploit them.

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:38 am

Bill_Abner wrote:
spooky157 wrote:Can we make it a rule that players aren't allowed to control the D-linemen? Seems to me that all the defensive cheese comes from the D-line play.
No way will everyone go for that but I am seriously considering it because it's just flat out dumb right now to watch the DEs living in the backfield. And I do this, too. Courtney Brown is a friggin terror for me. The fact that you can power-up/swim or power up/inside rush and go in untouched is killing the online play for me.

I always use a DE and I would go for that rule. I was in a keague that had a "no manual blitz" rule which means you could not control a DL or a blitzing player. It worked very well.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:46 am

spooky157 wrote:Can we make it a rule that players aren't allowed to control the D-linemen? Seems to me that all the defensive cheese comes from the D-line play.

I don't think that would be a good thing. Ever since the inception of video football, I have controlled a DT. Never a DE, but I would be very uncomfortable if I was forced to play a LB or DB. Since it seems like most of the cheese comes from the DE position, why not say you can't control a DE? Using a DT, I have one manual sack in two games, but then again, I don't charge my guy up and use all those special moves either.

I found out in my first game that you have less than 2 seconds to get the ball off so I just changed my playcalling to find rollouts and deeper dropbacks and it worked pretty well since I think db only had one sack against me. Then again, he wasn't cheesing either.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:10 am

I use all the players on my DL...and occasionaly my LBs and safties.....BUT....
I have the Giants...so naturally.....I use M Strahan about 60% of the time
He has 5 sacks in 3 games......4 of them manual....and 3 of those sacks coming in the 3rd game , that I LOST....

I dont see the problem....but if you feel like taking away my only good defensive player makes the game more fun for you.....
Do it...Id rather use my FS than to read anymore of this ....cause its this stuff , that ruins the game for me.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:24 am

XXXIV wrote:I use all the players on my DL...and occasionaly my LBs and safties.....BUT....
I have the Giants...so naturally.....I use M Strahan about 60% of the time
He has 5 sacks in 3 games......4 of them manual....and 3 of those sacks coming in the 3rd game , that I LOST....

I dont see the problem....but if you feel like taking away my only good defensive player makes the game more fun for you.....
Do it...Id rather use my FS than to read anymore of this ....cause its this stuff , that ruins the game for me.

well 5 sacks in three games equals out to over 25 for the season and that is a bit over the top. I don't know what the solution is, but I know exactly what people are complaining about because if you don't have time to throw the ball with a three step drop, something is wrong. But I will say with the awful DB AI, giving the qb much more than the 3 step drop is suicide.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:30 am

XXXIV wrote:I use all the players on my DL...and occasionaly my LBs and safties.....BUT....
I have the Giants...so naturally.....I use M Strahan about 60% of the time
He has 5 sacks in 3 games......4 of them manual....and 3 of those sacks coming in the 3rd game , that I LOST....

I dont see the problem....but if you feel like taking away my only good defensive player makes the game more fun for you.....
Do it...Id rather use my FS than to read anymore of this ....cause its this stuff , that ruins the game for me.

Oh, please, spare me the rhetoric. I'm not considering a change because it will make it more fun for me I'm doing it because speed rushing the DE in this game is totally out of hand. My DE leads this entire LEAGUE in sacks right now so this isn't about me. I want the league to the best of its ability to play llike football. Right now, it's not even close to that.

We're running 6 min quarters and teams are running about 30-40 plays a game and getting sacked 3-6 times, sometimes more. That's totally out of whack. I doubt I'd say that you could never use a DL, but I may say that you can't start q play as a DE. You can switch to him after the play starts. I think the extra half second will give the tackles time to adjust. It's the quickness off the ball that seems to be doing this. If anyone wants to help me test this let me know.

But we need to come to some kind of conclusion on this.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:35 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Danimal wrote:I'd said it before and I'll say it again, once you get past the "show" ESPN puts on, there are a lot of warts.
So profound...that Dan guy is. EVERY game is that way...there are always people trying to exploit them.

Wow, DB calling someone elses post profound, I'm sure the irony is lost on him.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:51 am

Bill_Abner wrote:I doubt I'd say that you could never use a DL, but I may say that you can't start q play as a DE. You can switch to him after the play starts. I think the extra half second will give the tackles time to adjust. It's the quickness off the ball that seems to be doing this. If anyone wants to help me test this let me know.

I would agree to that. The sack totals will likely stay high, however. I think of the 7 sacks I've had in my 2 games, only a couple were manual ones. There are just a lot of sacks in the game. People hold onto the ball too long, or don't make adjustments, myself included. EDIT: In addition to some isues with the blocking AI, of course. Some plays you just never stand a chance to get rid of the ball.

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:58 am

Bill_Abner wrote:
XXXIV wrote:I use all the players on my DL...and occasionaly my LBs and safties.....BUT....
I have the Giants...so naturally.....I use M Strahan about 60% of the time
He has 5 sacks in 3 games......4 of them manual....and 3 of those sacks coming in the 3rd game , that I LOST....

I dont see the problem....but if you feel like taking away my only good defensive player makes the game more fun for you.....
Do it...Id rather use my FS than to read anymore of this ....cause its this stuff , that ruins the game for me.
Oh, please, spare me the rhetoric. I'm not considering a change because it will make it more fun for me I'm doing it because speed rushing the DE in this game is totally out of hand. My DE leads this entire LEAGUE in sacks right now so this isn't about me. I want the league to the best of its ability to play llike football. Right now, it's not even close to that.

We're running 6 min quarters and teams are running about 30-40 plays a game and getting sacked 3-6 times, sometimes more. That's totally out of whack. I doubt I'd say that you could never use a DL, but I may say that you can't start q play as a DE. You can switch to him after the play starts. I think the extra half second will give the tackles time to adjust. It's the quickness off the ball that seems to be doing this. If anyone wants to help me test this let me know.

But we need to come to some kind of conclusion on this.

I like that idea. I can test it with you this evening before 9 EST if you want Bill.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:03 am

Cool, Craig, thanks. I'll try to be online around 7.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:06 am

Brando70 wrote:
Bill_Abner wrote:I doubt I'd say that you could never use a DL, but I may say that you can't start q play as a DE. You can switch to him after the play starts. I think the extra half second will give the tackles time to adjust. It's the quickness off the ball that seems to be doing this. If anyone wants to help me test this let me know.
I would agree to that. The sack totals will likely stay high, however. I think of the 7 sacks I've had in my 2 games, only a couple were manual ones. There are just a lot of sacks in the game. People hold onto the ball too long, or don't make adjustments, myself included. EDIT: In addition to some isues with the blocking AI, of course. Some plays you just never stand a chance to get rid of the ball.

I'm not concerned with making it a sack-free game. Pressure and adjustments should certainly be part of it. It's the nano-second sack that I want to try to remove. The sack that happens before you can complete a 2 step drop is what I think is messed up.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:21 am

Bill_Abner wrote:I'm not concerned with making it a sack-free game. Pressure and adjustments should certainly be part of it. It's the nano-second sack that I want to try to remove. The sack that happens before you can complete a 2 step drop is what I think is messed up.

I know what you mean, Bill, I just have seen the nanosecond sack a lot from AI controlled lineman. ESPN has some real blocking issues. But at least if the AI does it, it's not cheese!

Will this apply to manually controlling blitzing LBs as well? I tend to control Urlacher, and not surprisingly unleash him on the QB several times a game.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:26 am

Brando70 wrote:
Bill_Abner wrote:I'm not concerned with making it a sack-free game. Pressure and adjustments should certainly be part of it. It's the nano-second sack that I want to try to remove. The sack that happens before you can complete a 2 step drop is what I think is messed up.
I know what you mean, Bill, I just have seen the nanosecond sack a lot from AI controlled lineman. ESPN has some real blocking issues. But at least if the AI does it, it's not cheese!

Will this apply to manually controlling blitzing LBs as well? I tend to control Urlacher, and not surprisingly unleash him on the QB several times a game.

I'll mess with different things with Craig tonight but I highly doubt I put a "no manual blitz" rule in. A blitz can be either read or countered with certain audibles. The lightning sack from the DE really can't, unless you make the guy miss.

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:34 am

the league is very fun so far. even at 0-2, i am having a great time.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:03 am

Bill - Are you sure adding another rule is going to work. You just said you were tired of replacing people.

I can't speak for everyone, but I have had 4 games so far, 2 against DSP people who played a straight game, and 2 against the guys you got from your blog and both of those guys cheesed their asses off. If they couldn't follow the simple house rules that were in place, how are they going to follow these?

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:14 am

Danimal wrote:Bill - Are you sure adding another rule is going to work. You just said you were tired of replacing people.

I can't speak for everyone, but I have had 4 games so far, 2 against DSP people who played a straight game, and 2 against the guys you got from your blog and both of those guys cheesed their asses off. If they couldn't follow the simple house rules that were in place, how are they going to follow these?

I'd rather replace more people than keep playing like this though, Dan. And the guy I played last night really didn't cheese. (Although I dont like playing against guys with the headset off..it sends off a warning alarm in my head for some reason) There's nothing in the house rules that says you cant rush with the DE as long as you dont move him around. He was up 24-7 in the 4th and just ran the ball over and over; he didn't air out or anything. I just got whooped, but aside from the speed rush it wasn't a cheese game at all. I can't put that on him. I was rushing hard, too and got to Favre 4 times.

I'll only add a rule if I really think it helps the gameplay for the league as a whole. If it's just a needless rule, I won't add it. But if I can test it tonight and feel it gives QBs just a little more time to throw in the pocket, then it'll be worth it. I'd rather see 300 yard passing games to games that have 7-8 sacks. I want to test it with the Browns OLine as well as a team that can actually block.

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:28 am

i don't play with my headset on, because i play in the closet in our bedroom.

yeah, i'm a freak.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:34 am

Sudz wrote:i don't play with my headset on, because i play in the closet in our bedroom.

yeah, i'm a freak.

Seriously?

I don't use a headset right now because it broke and I haven't bought a new one. I'd really like a wireless one if they make it.