The ASB reviews are completely unfair

[JRod]

Well after a day with this game I can safely say it playes the best baseball out of MVP and MLB. I know for some the big issues like cursor batting will make them stay away but outside of that the AI is top notch here's jsut a quick thoughts.

The games are a little long so I don't know if they will keep me interested. I've gotten spoiled from games like WE, MVP, and HH where a game last 30+ minutes.

So far my only complaints with ASB are...

- zone hitting too easy. Some say it's broken but I just think they made it too easy to hit balls.

- walks are still too few. I do get walked more than MVP but it's not perfect.

- pitching still too accurate. If you aim in the middle of the zone, 90% of the time it will be a strike. Unlike HH where you might miss a pitch even though you wanted it dead center, you aren't going to miss too many pitches when you aim dead middle.

- Some weird quirks but not as many as last year.

Some things that need to be debunked from the reviews.
The fielder cam while not perfect all the time isn't broken and once you get used to it makes you really feel the pressure of getting to a ball. Becasue of the camera angles it's hard to judge some of the harder plays. Infield plays take a lot of practice. Ball physics like playing Fenway is tough because the camera angle doesn't pick up the ball while it's going into the wall. I think it's just a matter of working the camera angle a little better.

I dont' think all the AI is perfect. Things like steals, bunts and drag bunts could be better balanced.

However, with all of this there are steals in this game, hit and runs and walks. It might not be as good as HH but it's only slightly low unlike MVP where it's nonexistant.

The only issue I have that will seriously cut my game time with ASB is no sim out function. I like to play a lot of games and I don't like to play the later innings of blowouts. So MVP was perfect is this aspect. ASB needs to implement this. I know they have a save game function but I dont' want to save a blowout just to finish it up later.

Overall these reviewers are blatantly EA biased this year. They didn't spend enough time with both games to give them a fair shakedown. There's no way ASB should be rated this low while MVP gets a free pass in the review media.

[Bill_Abner]

I disagree about it playing the best game. Flaws have been discussed and ASB has a lot of cool features but the base running is strictly station to station. To me, this is just as important as a lack of walks. I have never, ever seen a player score from 2nd on a base hit with 2 outs. They don't even try. The outfielders are on the ball so fast that and have such rockets for arms that it makes it impossible. The killer for me was when last night Dunn fielded a ball in LF and a Brewer's runner was litterally 10 feet from home plate and Dunn gunned him down with a laser beam that would make Clemente's arm look like jelly. I mean come on. I was playing as the Reds, and I was still miffed to see that. I viewed the replay and it was just plain laughable.

Anyway, to me, this is a huge, huge issue easily on par with a lack of walks or steals or hit and runs. (Not to mention the ball being hit out of the catcher's mitt but that's another story..) If a 2 out base hit cannot score a runner from second, then it's not baseball. Plain and simple. Of course it's all a matter of what you are willing to live with, but this is one thing I cannot get past in ASB.

I think the best playing game is MLB, the best looking game is MVP and the best franchise mode is ASB. Combine them into one game and you have one helluva baseball game. By themselves, they are all mediocre IMO.

[Leebo33]

I think MVP is overrated at some sites, but ASB has been getting fair reviews (8 range) IMO. I can't speak about the franchise mode because I don't play franchise that much (I know MVP has problems, but I wasn't overly impressed with ASB's sim stats either. Tike Redman had 700ABs and 80 walks and there were a lot of players with high ABs in the season I simmed plus quite a few top starters were 6-18, 10-15, etc). On the field I think MVP wins because of the much better control (especially baserunning), more realistic pitches, better fielding, etc. In MVP you have the lefty power bug, but in ASB there isn't a game that goes by that I haven't seen something entirely wacky including terrible baserunner AI (not scoring on double plays, way too many singles to the wall), plays ending early with balls in play, balls curving from out of play into fielders gloves, errant throws taking right angles into someone's glove, etc.

[Parker]

Maybe it depends on what settings you are using, but I really haven't seen that many obvious baserunning blunders by the CPU. I believe everytime a runner on 2nd has had a chance to advance to third on a ground ball, they have. To say that the baserunning is anywhere as bad as WSB last year (which was viewed as the best baseball game by many), is completely unfair. That was the definition of station-to-station baserunning and you had a huge advantage over the cpu when it came to stealing.

Also, they probably aren't consistent enough, but plenty of times I have seen runners score from second on a single, albeit mostly on balls to right field and not smashed. They also seem quite aware of what the fielder is doing, if you take a bad route to a ball or make any sort of minor mistake, they will head for home. Although I'm not that great with the fielder cam, so I can't judge the CPU that accurately at this point.

Overall, as far as realism, it's a close race between ASB and MLB. MVP doesn't even come close. But because pitchers throw more balls in ASB and pitch counts are higher, I have to give the nod to ASB. I admit that even ASB doesn't match Madden or Winning Eleven as far as realism, but it's the best of the options so far.

[ScoopBrady]

Wow, are we playing the same game? Were'nt you known as the "hardass on games"? ASB is one of the most bug-filled games I have ever played.

I've seen balls hit to center field where the fielder runs toward left field and just when you think the ball is going to drop as a hit it magically pops over to the fielder who ran to left field.

I've regularly seen balls hit out of the catchers mitt. I've regularly had the AI commit serious baserunning blunders.

I consistently get 1-3 errors per game even though my outfielder is locked into position.

I've consitently lost 2-3 runs per game and received 2-3 unfair outs because of horrible baserunning controls.

I have yet to draw a single unintentional walk nor have I given up an unintentional walk.

There are far too many homers hit in this game.

I think ASB is getting ridiculously high scores for reviews. I also think that MVP is getting too high of scores for reviews.

My god, most of these problems have been around for 3 years now with this franchise. They should be lambasted for such disregard to issues that fans have been stating their displeasure over.

I'll stand behind you if you say that the MVP reviews are unfair (too high), but you're definitely on your own as far as I'm concerned when you say that ASB's reviews are unfair, I think they're way too high.

[Parker]

There are plenty of bugs in ASB, but most of them do not affect my ability to get realistic stats in games, unlike with MVP.

Things like the ball looking like its already in the glove are annoying, but they don't affect games stat-wise.

Since I've gotten used to the controls with fielder cam, I now rarely commit more than 1 or 2 errors in a game. There is a steep learning curve however, but fielder cam is still the best way to see the ball.

You must be doing something wrong not to get walks with cursor hitting. If you are using zone hitting, you won't get many walks because it's far too easy to make contact earlier in the count. Many games I have walked 3 or 4 times with cursor hitting and pitchers have near realistic pitch counts. In fact I wish the game didn't have zone hitting, because it's impossible to get realistic stats with it.

I'm still giving up too many hits and runs to the CPU, but most of runs are not produced by homeruns. As far hitting homeruns with the cursor, with fast pitch speed it's not easy. Although you can hit homeruns if you take the approach where you don't swing unless you have the cursor perfectly aligned with a pitch. If you do that, you won't get many hits or runs and you will strike out a ton, but most of your runs will come via the longball.

They aren't the most intiutive, but I'm used to the baserunning controls. I'm using classic which is the same as last year.

I don't think the ASB reviews are unfair. But this is not a baseball game with as much mass appeal as MVP.

[JRod]

Bill,

Out of MVP and MLB I think it plays the best!! That's an important distinction.

I've seen the baserunning be very aggressive depending on the runners. I do see some flaws where there were two baserunners on a bag. But hell at this point, i've conceeded that HH is dead and we are stuck with medocrity.


Scoop,
Well I think you are too liberal with the word bugs. But I do agree that there are many things wrong with ASB HOWEVER, compared with MLB and MVP it's plays pretty good. Let's not list the fact that MVP doesn't even play real baseball, CPU lefties have power shortages, there are multiple game killing flaws and so forth.

MLB doesn't have check swings. I don't care if it was HH with great graphics this for me is worse than most of the flaws in MVP.

Is ASB better than the other two absolutely. Maybe WSB will be better but I don't know.

My whole point is that if MVP gets high 80s-low 90s than ASB should do no worse than mid 85s. It might have bugs but they aren't as bad as MVP. As for MLB, it's a great game but the no check swings kills if for me. I'm one of those players that needs this feature or I will strike out 15-20 times. I don't have a very good eye.


Again my whole point is that this game is entirely underrated. I think many people will be shocked to see that it's not as bad as the reviews make it out to be. If you guys find flaws with it, that's your deal, I just don't think it's that bad.

[Badgun]

Well after a day with this game I can safely say it playes the best baseball out of MVP and MLB. I know for some the big issues like cursor batting will make them stay away but outside of that the AI is top notch here's jsut a quick thoughts.

The games are a little long so I don't know if they will keep me interested. I've gotten spoiled from games like WE, MVP, and HH where a game last 30+ minutes.

So far my only complaints with ASB are...

- zone hitting too easy. Some say it's broken but I just think they made it too easy to hit balls.

- walks are still too few. I do get walked more than MVP but it's not perfect.

- pitching still too accurate. If you aim in the middle of the zone, 90% of the time it will be a strike. Unlike HH where you might miss a pitch even though you wanted it dead center, you aren't going to miss too many pitches when you aim dead middle.

- Some weird quirks but not as many as last year.

Some things that need to be debunked from the reviews.
The fielder cam while not perfect all the time isn't broken and once you get used to it makes you really feel the pressure of getting to a ball. Becasue of the camera angles it's hard to judge some of the harder plays. Infield plays take a lot of practice. Ball physics like playing Fenway is tough because the camera angle doesn't pick up the ball while it's going into the wall. I think it's just a matter of working the camera angle a little better.

I dont' think all the AI is perfect. Things like steals, bunts and drag bunts could be better balanced.

However, with all of this there are steals in this game, hit and runs and walks. It might not be as good as HH but it's only slightly low unlike MVP where it's nonexistant.

The only issue I have that will seriously cut my game time with ASB is no sim out function. I like to play a lot of games and I don't like to play the later innings of blowouts. So MVP was perfect is this aspect. ASB needs to implement this. I know they have a save game function but I dont' want to save a blowout just to finish it up later.

Overall these reviewers are blatantly EA biased this year. They didn't spend enough time with both games to give them a fair shakedown. There's no way ASB should be rated this low while MVP gets a free pass in the review media.

JRod,
You say the reviews are unfair and then you give a laundry list of things wrong with the game. I've already returned my copy, I couldn't stomach the game any longer. If MVP got a free pass in the reviews, ASB got a lifetime membership. There are so many things wrong with the game, there's no good place to start.

I won't list them again, since Scoop listed most of them, but balls changing directions, poor baserunning AI, and sluggish fielding controls are just the tip of the iceberg.

People say that hitting the ball out of the catcher's mitt is only a visual error and doesn't affect gameplay, but I beg to differ. When I would swing where I normally would, I was swinging to early and missing a lot. Finally, I figured out that if I waited a little longer, I could make contact. That's when I realized that for the best results you had to wait for the catcher to catch the ball and then swing. Don't you see what a joke that is for a baseball game to have this kind of flaw, visual or not? Another reason zone hitting is broken is that I never got the ball to go where I aimed. Many times I would push right to hit the ball to right field and I would pull the ball for a homerun. I never once saw the ball go in the direction I pressed the stick. When you're hitting the ball out of the catcher's mitt and balls are changing directions at will and no reviewer mentions it, who is getting the free pass here.

To say these things don't affect gameplay is bullshit. There's a little thing known as immersiveness...those little things companies add to games to make you "feel" as if you're at the park. Things like mound visits, runners breaking up double plays, cutaways to the dugout that show reactions of the players. I'm sorry, but due to all the graphical errors and magical balls, ASB has absolutely zero in the immersiveness department. You don't think it matters? Go over to OS and read how many people are pissed about homerun celebrations, batting stances, and pitcher windups. It matters to somebody.

Say what you will, but I think I'm pretty fair when it comes to sports titles, I have no loyalty to any company. I played both Madden and ESPN football, I have ESPN college hoops, INside Drive, and Links 2004. I never even considered EA's basketball or hockey offerings this year. Even last year, I loved ASB 2004 and wished that I could have found some sort of resolution with the hitting system, but in the end the cursor did me in.

I understand ASB has some quality features in it, but Acclaim blew it when they released the game with the piss poor zone hitting model. Some people try to say that Acclaim never intended seasoned players to use zone batting, that's why it's so easy. That's bullshit, too. Most everyone I know has been clamoring for years for games to get away from the cursor and go to the simplistic, but very realistic High Heat batting. So why would they break the method of batting that most people want to use?

I'm glad you like it, but this game left an awful taste in my mouth. From the forcing of the fielder came to the broken zone batting, Acclaim made the game impossible for me to play. Couple that with all the other things and I find this to be the worst baseball game put out since the PS1 days.

[Badgun]

Bill,

Out of MVP and MLB I think it plays the best!! That's an important distinction.

I've seen the baserunning be very aggressive depending on the runners. I do see some flaws where there were two baserunners on a bag. But hell at this point, i've conceeded that HH is dead and we are stuck with medocrity.


Scoop,
Well I think you are too liberal with the word bugs. But I do agree that there are many things wrong with ASB HOWEVER, compared with MLB and MVP it's plays pretty good. Let's not list the fact that MVP doesn't even play real baseball, CPU lefties have power shortages, there are multiple game killing flaws and so forth.

MLB doesn't have check swings. I don't care if it was HH with great graphics this for me is worse than most of the flaws in MVP.

Is ASB better than the other two absolutely. Maybe WSB will be better but I don't know.

My whole point is that if MVP gets high 80s-low 90s than ASB should do no worse than mid 85s. It might have bugs but they aren't as bad as MVP. As for MLB, it's a great game but the no check swings kills if for me. I'm one of those players that needs this feature or I will strike out 15-20 times. I don't have a very good eye.


Again my whole point is that this game is entirely underrated. I think many people will be shocked to see that it's not as bad as the reviews make it out to be. If you guys find flaws with it, that's your deal, I just don't think it's that bad.

Please list the multiple gamekilling flaws in MVP. I must have missed something. I know about the left power shortage, but what are the others?

[JRod]

Badgun,

The 10/15 problem

Steals and hits and runs are nonexistant for any recognizable baseball simulation.

Rubber band AI pitching. You always know that the AI is going to pitch a certain way in certain situations.

Lefty already mentioned.

51% progression issues.

That's the big stuff. MLB gets all of this right as well as ASB. So two games get it done better than MVP. Although steals and walks don't happen as much in MLB atleast they do happen.

It's admirable your passion for MVP but to say that it doesn't have any flaws because you don't think they are important to baseball is a bit irresponsible. Other than the cursor system and the fiedling camera, it's safe to say that ASB has better baseball fundamentals than MVP. Now whether it's more fun or not that's another story and compeltely up to the user.

[Badgun]

Badgun,

The 10/15 problem

Steals and hits and runs are nonexistant for any recognizable baseball simulation.

Rubber band AI pitching. You always know that the AI is going to pitch a certain way in certain situations.

Lefty already mentioned.

51% progression issues.

That's the big stuff. MLB gets all of this right as well as ASB. So two games get it done better than MVP. Although steals and walks don't happen as much in MLB atleast they do happen.

It's admirable your passion for MVP but to say that it doesn't have any flaws because you don't think they are important to baseball is a bit irresponsible. Other than the cursor system and the fiedling camera, it's safe to say that ASB has better baseball fundamentals than MVP. Now whether it's more fun or not that's another story and compeltely up to the user.

JRod,
I never said MVP didn't have any flaws...I know it does. The lack of walks and steals is disappointing, but I do get walks and I finally saw the AI steal a base yesterday. The player progression thing is not an issue with me as I play all my games. If I want to sim I'll play OOTP. Which brings me to the only thing that is a legitimate problem for me...the lefty power outage. It's troubling to say the least, but I have seen homers by leftys as few as they are. Am I going to let that stop me from playing an otherwise brilliant game of baseball that does so many things right, especially the little things? Not on your life. I just finished playing a game of MLB 2005 and I truly believe that game plays the best game on the field over both MVP and ASB. I like MLB 2005...a lot and I can see myself with franchises going in 3 games this year...but ASB won't be one of them.

Both MVP and MLB do so much more right than ASB...and I'd bet my house that ESPN will too.

[Leebo33]

it's safe to say that ASB has better baseball fundamentals than MVP. Now whether it's more fun or not that's another story and compeltely up to the user.

ASB *may* have baseball fundamentals, but it certainly doesn't have video game fundamentals down and that is why it receives lower scores than MVP. I am just amazed at the graphical problems in ASB. Yesterday, I got caught in a rundown and was running back to second base when the 3rd baseman threw the ball into right-center field and the ball somehow ended up at second base. It went from right-center and back to second in a couple frames without anyone touching the ball! Stuff like this happens in every game I play. I'm serious. It is baseball follies and I can't believe I'm the only one seeing it. I'm not even talking about the goofy stuff that doesn't truly effect gameplay like the constant errant throws when the infielders throw it around the horn, the outfielders diving behind someone making a routine catch, or players running half way across the field to cover a base or make a play that a player closer could make.

I'm not a graphics whore. I don't need stellar graphics, but I do need to have believable events on the field. It ties in to the immersion factor Badgun was talking about. I don't want to see errant throws take right angles. I don't want to see a play end with a loose ball down the right field line and runners on base. I don't want to see balls well out of play curve into a fielder's glove.

Acclaim is lucky to get the review scores they are getting for ASB IMO. I'd give it a 6.5. I had a lot more fun playing Inside Pitch even with the superdives.

[XXXIV]

There seems to be alot of pro and anti EA crap clouding peoples judgemnet.

crap is crap.
good is good.

[ScoopBrady]

Well said Leebo. These are baseball videogames not baseball stat simulators and this videogame has more fundamental videogame flaws than Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness did and that game was trashed by the press and gamers alike.

And with regards to the whole MVP lefty bug, I just don't see it during regular play. I don't deny it happens in the Homerun Showdown mode because I've seen it there, but I just don't see it when I play my season. I consistently give up homeruns to lefties and Corey Patterson leads my team in HR's. In fact, he has more than Alou and Lee combined and leads Sosa by 3. Maybe it's the settings I'm using. Who knows?

[Leebo33]

And with regards to the whole MVP lefty bug, I just don't see it during regular play. I don't deny it happens in the Homerun Showdown mode because I've seen it there, but I just don't see it when I play my season. I consistently give up homeruns to lefties and Corey Patterson leads my team in HR's. In fact, he has more than Alou and Lee combined and leads Sosa by 3. Maybe it's the settings I'm using. Who knows?

Scoop, did you increase the power slider for either you or the CPU or change the pitch speed? Maybe you just found a good set of sliders.

If you want to see it play on the default settings, pick average right handed starters, pick two teams with good lefty pop, and bat for both teams. I played a three game series ATL vs. NY in ATL. I hit all my homeruns right-handed and the best I could do left-handed was hit a ball off the wall with Giambi. A lot of my right-handed homeruns were to right field or dead center and over 400 feet. A sample size of 3 games certainly isn't legit, but I think the difference in power is fairly apparent on the default settings. If sliders somehow correct this then maybe I will revist the game at some point.

[kevinpars]

"I think the best playing game is MLB, the best looking game is MVP and the best franchise mode is ASB. "

Bill, I assume you mean the PC version of MVP? I thought ASB on the Xbox looked a lot better than MVP on the Xbox.

As for best playing game? Well, I dug out my old computer and have been playing High Heat 2002!

[K_Mosley]

Badgun,

For the record, you don't use the stick in ASB in zone hitting to hit the ball a certain direction (e.g., pushing it to the left to pull a ball for a right-handed hitter, pushing it up to hit a fly ball). You use the stick to line your swing up with the ball; pulling it or going the opposite way depends on the timing. You can, however, try to hit a certain direction by using the 3D cursor and the "tilt" feature...

Personally, I can live with the graphical oddities and quirks in ASB because of the great franchise stuff, realistic stats and outcomes, and Acclaim's obvious appreciation for all of the nuances of the game and the game's history.

To each his own... I liked MVP - especially the controls - but the dreaded "DDE" errors (I have an Xbox with the Thompson drive) forced me to return it. I look forward to seeing what ESPN has to offer in a week or two...

Kevin

[matthewk]

Good point Kevin. Now that I have ASB, MVP and last years WSB, I've been rotating between them trying to figure out which one I want to spend the summer with (Damn, I'm gona end up on a Dr. Phil episode dedicted to gaming with a bunch of 16-year olds...).

Anyways, MVP is always very close to capturing me, but one thing (along with lefty bug, walks, steals) that's been buggin me is that the hitting doesn't feel natural. I just can't get in the midnset of MVP hitting system. KNowing that I can hold up on the stick and still hit a ball at my knees just feels wrong.

As for ASB, so far it's been much more livable than MVP. There are glitches, but so far none have been killers like the lefty bug. Kevin, mentioned that timing affects where the ball goes. I'm not so sure. Yesterday I had Maddux up to bat and I know I swung late, yet the ball still went to left field (he's a RH hitter). The replays show me swinging late, so I'm confused. I'd like to believe that timing does affect what field I hit it to. Does the placement of the cursor affect this as well? I need more time with it, but I was hoping some of you who have played the game more could explain this.

The worst part about the 2D cursor hitting is that I have to wait on starting my swing until I have the cursor in place. I am much more comfortable with WSB, where I can start my swing while still "flowing" to the ball with the cursor. Now THAT feels like hitting a baseball to me.

[Leebo33]

The worst part about the 2D cursor hitting is that I have to wait on starting my swing until I have the cursor in place. I am much more comfortable with WSB, where I can start my swing while still "flowing" to the ball with the cursor. Now THAT feels like hitting a baseball to me.

Good point. I was also more comfortable with WSB 2k3 and the habits I picked up in that game regarding "cursor flow" don't translate well to ASB.

[pk500]

>>>Please list the multiple gamekilling flaws in MVP. I must have missed something. I know about the left power shortage, but what are the others?<<<

Bad:

Don't forget the lack of walks by CPU pitchers, and it's almost impossible for a human pitcher to walk someone unless you really try or are really, really drunk while playing.

Again, I know that's not something you notice because you're not selective in your hitting, preferring a fast game over a precise game. But the above flaws are VERY evident.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

>>>Anyways, MVP is always very close to capturing me, but one thing (along with lefty bug, walks, steals) that's been buggin me is that the hitting doesn't feel natural. I just can't get in the midnset of MVP hitting system. KNowing that I can hold up on the stick and still hit a ball at my knees just feels wrong.<<<

MattK:

Bingo. That drove me nuts. I'm so used to moving the stick where the pitch is located, one of the hallmarks of cursor-based and zone-based hitting in other games, not in what direction or height I want to hit the pitch.

It's very foreign, very awkward, and I never could get my head wrapped around it.

Glad I'm not the only one.

Take care,
PK

[Parker]

I'm still not sure why, but WSB's cursor hitting never seemed right to me, as far as producing realistic results with any settings. I would always end up with too many hits using mainly the contact swing or combining it with the power swing during at bats, but too many strikeouts if I just used the power swing regularly. So if things haven't changed with the cursor hitting this year, and the High Heat style hitting option has problems, I probably won't be buying ESPN.

All I know, is I am getting very realistic batting results using ASB's 2d cursor. It doesn't seem unnatural to me.

[snate]

. I would always end up with too many hits using mainly the contact swing or combining it with the power swing during at bats, but too many strikeouts if I just used the power swing regularly.

ESPN has made the power/contact swing an option this year - so you can have 1 button swinging if you want.

[snate]

Kevin, mentioned that timing affects where the ball goes. I'm not so sure. Yesterday I had Maddux up to bat and I know I swung late, yet the ball still went to left field (he's a RH hitter). The replays show me swinging late, so I'm confused. I'd like to believe that timing does affect what field I hit it to. Does the placement of the cursor affect this as well? I need more time with it, but I was hoping some of you who have played the game more could explain this.

I don't believe timing has any effect with the 2d cursor. The inside of the cursor pulls the ball and the outside pushes it. That's it. On replays, you will see that everything is hit after the ball is past the batter anyway so if timing did matter you would be hittting everything foul into the seats.

[Parker]

I think timing does matter to some degree with the 2d cursor regardless of what the replays show, but what part of the cursor meets the ball seems to have more of an impact as far as what direction the ball is hit.