Charlie Hustle Finally Comes Clean...

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Charlie Hustle Finally Comes Clean...

Post by wco81 »

So can he now go to Cooperstown?
<BR>
<BR>Where do you draw the line?
<BR>
<BR>1. Betting
<BR>2. Betting on Baseball
<BR>3. Betting on games involving the team he manages?
<BR>4. Betting against the team he manages?
<BR>
<BR>Or should it be based purely on his performance as a player, in which casewhat he did while manager is irrelevant?
<BR>

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Post by webdanzer »

"I think he should go in the HoF based on his playing career"
<BR>
<BR>So then is Shoeless Joe allowed in?
<BR>
<BR>I actually say let them both in the Hall....but mention their scandals.
<BR>
<BR>But Rose, never, ever gets an active role in the game again.

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Charlie Hustle Finally Comes Clean...

Post by wco81 »

Yeah I used to be against him going to the HoF but now it´s more a feeling of get it over with already. The guy wants it so bad that it´s cruel to hold it over him.
<BR>
<BR>Nobody can deny that his playing career gives him the credentials. The thing about the rules is that it might have been a slippery slope for him. You bet on sports and then you figure, why not bet on baseball since I am knowledgeable about the game, and so on.

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Charlie Hustle Finally Comes Clean...

Post by pk500 »

<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>On 2004-01-05 21:18, sf_z wrote:
<BR>The rules draw the line on betting on baseball. I don´t know the man and have no idea whether he´s telling the truth any more now than when he claimed he didn´t bet on baseball for the past 15 years. I think he should go in the HoF based on his playing career, if only to remove a huge distraction to the game. Pete´s happy, Bud´s happy, everybody´s happy.
<BR>
<BR>But there´s no way he should be allowed to manage a team again.
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->
<BR>
<BR>I agree 100 percent. Very well said!
<BR>
<BR>Take care,
<BR>PK
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Post by JRod »

Let Rose in and get it over with but ban Bud Selig from evern having anything to do with baseball.
<BR>
<BR>Bud Selig is doing more in his tenure to hurt baseball than Rose did.
<BR>
<BR>My question however is this. Did Pete Rose fix games or did he just bet on it. I know what´s wrong is wrong. But if they guy bet that his team would win, that´s not like fixing a game so you can make money.
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Post by Badgun »

I think Rose is a lying asshole. I´ve always thought he was an asshole. Now we know that all that time he vehemently denied betting on baseball, he was lying his ass off.
<BR>
<BR>Those who have read the book say Rose still comes across as standoffish and there seems to be little or no remorse about what he did.
<BR>
<BR>I think based on his baseball career alone, he absolutely deserves to be in the Hall. But, he is supposed to be an ambassador of the game and in that regard he has failed miserably. I think we all know what the timing of his little "confession" means. It means that Rose knows his time is about to pass him by and if he doesn´t get on the ballot in 2005, that would be his last chance.
<BR>
<BR>Here´s a little snippet from an article at ESPN:
<BR>
<BR>"Selig´s immediate predecessor, Fay Vincent, read the excerpts and was outraged, concluding that Rose did not deserve reinstatement.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>"There´s no sense of regret, no sense of shame, no sense of the damage he did to baseball," Vincent said. "I guess I´m really disgusted. I think the whole thing is a sordid, miserable story. It´s sort of like turning over a stone -- you see a lot of maggots, and it´s not very pretty."
<BR>
<BR>and here´s another and this one includes the ballot criteria:
<BR>
<BR>"If reinstated, Rose´s last chance to appear on the writers´ ballot for the Hall of Fame is December 2005. After that, he could be voted in by the veterans´ committee.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>But even if he appears on the ballot, he needs 75 percent of the voters to select him, and Hall rules state "voting shall be based upon the player´s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."
<BR>
<BR>He gets my vote on player´s record and playing ability, but there´s no way I give this prick a thumbs up for integrity, sportsmanship, and and character.
<BR>
<BR>And finally, this:
<BR>
<BR>"In his first autobiography, published in 1989, Rose denied gambling. That book, "Pete Rose: My Story," was written with Roger Kahn.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>"I feel he has embarrassed me," Kahn said Monday. "I must have asked Pete 20 times, ´Did you bet on baseball?´ He would look at me, blink his eyes and say, ´I didn´t bet baseball. I have too much respect for the game.´ "
<BR>
<BR>Too much respect for the game? <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_wink.gif">
<BR>
<BR>I don´t care how good he was, he doesn´t pass the criteria.

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Post by Badgun »

<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>On 2004-01-05 22:39, sf_z wrote:
<BR>Webdanzer: I don´t think it really matters anymore if Shoeless Joe gets in. The man has been dead for 50 years and anyone old enough to have seen him play is probably too old to remember. His family and supporters would disagree but I´d argue Jackson´s legacy is better served by keeping him out of the Hall. Admitting him now would just be pandering. I picked up Eight Men Out at a garage sale recently, so I might change my mind after I read it.
<BR>
<BR>Rose, on the other hand, is still very much alive both in body and memory. Letting him in now after his admission of guilt is the smart play for MLB.
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->
<BR>
<BR>I remember reading during the original investigation that Rose did a lot of odd things as a manager . Things like scratching his best pitcher and going with a long reliever with like an ERA of 8. Or leading 3-2 going to the 9th and not bringing in Dibble, but instead bringing in someone a lot less effective. Most of the games that they checked out, the Reds lost and in a sense you could make the case that Rose effectively "threw" those games. Of course, he will NEVER own up to this, because that would kill whatever positive public opinion he has left.
<BR>
<BR>That guy´s report is floating around on the net somewhere, because I remember reading through it. He claims he never bet on or against the Reds, but he made like 893 bets in a 4 month period so the guy was eaten up with it. Trust me, I´ve had friends that got like that and it´s as bad as a cocaine or alcohol addiction. When Rose had it going on, he probably would bet on the sun coming up.

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Post by TheFormerBrett44 »

The rules state if you bet on baseball you will be banned for life. There is a sign in every MLB clubhouse that states this. However, I also believe he belongs in the Hall of Fame. In a perfect world I think he belongs on the ballot, but his ban from baseball should continue. Of course that´s probably not practical.
<BR>
<BR>As for Rose, "throwing" games I read an article awhile back that claimed it was nothing more than an urban internet legend.
<BR>
<BR>Brett

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Post by kevinpars »

We just had a weekend of NFL playoff games and bowl games, college BB is heating up, lots of stuff happening and all sports radio and the sports pages are full of Pete Rose.
<BR>
<BR>Put him in the frigging hall of fame just so we don´t have to hear about this tired old story anymore.
<BR>
<BR>The guy is a selfish money grubbing redneck, but he sure could play baseball.

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Post by Leebo33 »

"My question however is this. Did Pete Rose fix games or did he just bet on it. I know what´s wrong is wrong. But if they guy bet that his team would win, that´s not like fixing a game so you can make money."
<BR>
<BR>That´s the problem. Betting on your team to win is just as bad as betting on them to lose and a lot of people don´t understand it. Unless Pete Rose bet the same amount of money on the Reds´ to win every single game during a season then he is essentially fixing games so he can make money. It effected his pitching rotation, bullpen usage, deciding when players get a day off, etc. There is no way it couldn´t. His job was to win the most games in a season for the Reds not to win the individual games he bet on. There is no way that bettting on individual games could not effect his long term handling of the team.
<BR>
<BR>Pete Rose disgraced baseball. He broke not only the baseball´s rules, but more importantly the players and fans´ trust....and then he lied about it over and over again for over a decade. I hope the lying prick never gets in the Hall of Fame, but I do agree it is a distraction and a decision should be made soon.
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Post by Pete »

I say put him in the Hall for his accomplishments as a player, but, on his plaque state that he was/is banned from baseball for betting on the game.
<BR>
<BR>As far as him managing again, it is just like the criminal you let out after 20 years. What is the first thing they do? Break the law. Pete will do it again, if you let him.
<BR>
<BR>Rose that is. Not me. <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif">

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Post by krustylew »

Here is all you need to know about Pete Rose, from Tom Boswell. So f**king stupid, its laughable:
<BR>
<BR>"Before fans grant their forgiveness, or Commissioner Bud Selig decides whether Rose should be reinstated to the sport, perhaps we should listen to a story told by former commissioner Fay Vincent.
<BR>
<BR>When Rose was a player, he went to Japan, signed a bat endorsement contract, collected $100,000 in cash and put it in a suitcase so he could sneak it through customs without paying U.S. taxes. Rose was caught, but the story never got out and no charges were filed. A few years later, Rose´s bat contract expired. He went back to Japan, got another $100,000 in cash, put it in a suitcase (maybe the same one) and tried to get it through customs. Again.
<BR>
<BR>"Bzzzzz," said Vincent yesterday, imitating the sound of a buzzer going off. "They caught Rose again. Now the feds were really livid -- a two-time loser. They wanted to indict him. But he had a good lawyer who got him off. Nobody found out. Nothing happened to Rose. Those are facts. You can quote me."
<BR>
<BR>

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Post by Badgun »

That doesn´t surprise me if it´s true. I figure Rose´s first move if he gets in the Hall is to go back on Home Shopping Network and hawk his autographed baseballs, but this time they will be the new and improved ones with HOF under his name. Can´t wait.
<BR>
<BR>He´s definitely a greedy bastard.

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Post by tsunami »

Personally, I could care less what happens to Pete Rose. He is a liar and a cheater. The latest chapter of this ridiculous saga reaks of self-promotion and money making. He is pretty despicable. He comes off like he is owed something because he finally made good (in his eyes) on his past mistakes. It´s basically..."I did what you asked, now give me what I want! 15 years of lying? So what...i came clean now so let me in." Pathetic.
<BR>
<BR>Having said all that, I´m still not sure why being put on the ballot and being "reinstated" into baseball are tied together. Why does his playing career have to be tied to his managing career? Why can´t he be put onto a HOF ballot and still be banned from baseball? I´m not sure if it is truly qualified like this already, but MLB and the HOF need to clearly stipulate that your career after your playing days is taken into consideration. If on the field accomplishements are the only things considered, then he should be on the ballot and in the HOF.
<BR>
<BR>But he should NEVER be allowed to manage a baseball team. EVER. Or even be allowed to hold any position of influence (be it in the clubhouse, the front office, scouting, etc..) with a baseball team. He has forsaken that priviledge by betting on baseball and then lying about it for 15 years.
<BR>
<BR>I also heard an interesting take on his betting last night. They said he placed tons of bets for the Reds to win (and someone already mentioned how that HAD to affect his managerial decisions). But, by not betting on the Reds any given night, he was essentially betting against them. Which in turn affected how he managed that game and subsequent games. And why are we believing anything he says now? Why should we believe he never bet against the Reds? According to him, he never bet on baseball or his own team. At least that was the story for 15 years.
<BR>
<BR>

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Post by pk500 »

Z summed up the Rose situation perfectly.
<BR>
<BR>Two simple steps to resolve the Rose dilemma:
<BR>
<BR>1. Elect him to the Hall of Fame for his stellar playing career.
<BR>
<BR>2. Prohibit him from any official involvement with the game or its clubs forever for his admission that he bet on the Reds and other teams while managing Cincinnati.
<BR>
<BR>Let the guy make his tearful acceptance speech in Cooperstown, complete with his trailer-trash, peanut butter-and-marbles-in-the-mouth lingo and bad haircut, and then be done with him, once and for all.
<BR>
<BR>If Rose wants to profit from being a Hall of Famer on QVC and through other channels of greed, let him. Last time I checked, Corey Feldman was still depicting himself as an actor on second-rate reality shows and other bad TV.
<BR>
<BR>It´s America, after all.
<BR>
<BR>Take care,
<BR>PK<BR><BR><font size=1>[ This message was edited by: pk500 on 06-01-2004 13:20 ]</font>
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Post by RobVarak »

I don´t understand why people fail to understand the concept of a penalty when it comes to the Rose situation!
<BR>
<BR>It´s not as if we as fans are being cheated by his exclusion from the HoF. I can still teach my kids about his playing days without the benefit of his visage on the walls of Cooperstown. His name and likeness haven´t been stricken from the historical record a la 1984. He has bats and a jersey in the HoF museum, for Chrissake!
<BR>
<BR>I see no reason to acknowledge him by admission in to the HoF when he admittedly broke the most well-known rule in all of professional baseball.
<BR>
<BR>Please spare me (as too few columnists have) hand-wringing about how we shouldn´t judge his "character." He wasn´t penalized because of his poor character, he was penalized because he broke a clear, unambiguous rule. The rule which is most central to the operation of Major League Baseball.
<BR>
<BR>I also chuckle at the pundits who argue that there are other disreputable characters in the HoF. Of COURSE there are...so we should go out of our way to add one more? The distinction stands: He was stupid enough to bet and stupid enough to get caught breaking a rule which goes to the heart of fairness and the viability of MLB as a competitive endeavour. Those other morons, while their presence may be deplorable, did not do this.
<BR>
<BR>IMHO the interesting development is going to be with Czar Bud´s handling of the matter going forward. It has been widely reported that MLB cut a deal with Rose back in the summer. If so, there are two possible conclusions:
<BR>
<BR>1. Selig just suckered Rose. He may have hoped that if he duped Rose into admitting his gambling (and, more damning to his immediate interests, admitting that he lied to his legions of supporters and slandered Dowd, Giamatti etc.) that the backlash would make reinstatement ridiculous. I don´t give Bud that much credit, though.
<BR>
<BR>2. Selig is so desirous of currying public opinion that he actually will agree to reinstate the guy despite admitting to willfully breaking the single most fundamental rule in the game and despite that rule´s unambigous and automatic penalty. Selig would not only be forgiving Rose´s behavior, but also tacitly sanctioning Rose´s last 15 years of lies and slander.
<BR>
<BR>The only justification I can see for this is that Bud is so accustomed to assisting and fraternizing with immoral, dishonest, reprehensible skum (Huizenga, Pohlad etc.) that he feels right at home with an admitted cheater, liar, gambler, tax cheat and asshole.
<BR>
<BR>If you gamble on baseball, you get baseball´s death penalty. I don´t give a damn if you´re the all-time hits leader or a rookie utility infielder.
<BR>
<BR>PS Please immediately punch in the face the next moron who draws a distinction between betting on your team to win and betting to lose. Anyone who suggests that there is such a distinction does not know baseball and REALLY does not know gambling.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BR><BR><font size=1>[ This message was edited by: RobVarak on 06-01-2004 13:58 ]</font>
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Post by XXXIV »

Im going to get me one of them bats he set the record with.
<BR>How many are there again?
<BR>
<BR>Charlie Hustler is more like it.
<BR>What a scumbag
<BR>
<BR>As far as the Hof
<BR>Baseballs already become a joke.
<BR>Whats one more clown going to matter?

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Post by JRod »

Whoa Rob:
<BR>I just asked if he fixed games there is a distintion. But it´s like a distinction between killing someone with a gun or running over them.
<BR>
<BR>I just wanted to know if he fixed games like the Sox.
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Post by RobVarak »

JRod,
<BR>
<BR>Didn´t mean to direct that at you...didn´t even notice that post, sorry. I´ve just heard and read all of these elaborate discussions of how it might have been "not so bad" if he was betting on his own team. I was really gunning for pundits, not you. No harm meant.
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Post by Steelerfan2k1 »

It would be total bullshit if they reinstated Rose and allowed him to be elected to the Hall, and then didn´t do the same for Shoeless Joe.
<BR>
<BR>I don´t even understand how Selig could do such a thing. Since the Black Sox Scandal - which was more than 80 years ago - the lifetime ban for gambling rule has been enforced severely. There is no question that the game and its integrity has benefitted greatly from this rule.
<BR>
<BR>What the hell is Selig going to do now - basically rule that players can gamble on games and still make the Hall?
<BR>
<BR>That is total bs, and it would be a sad day.
<BR>
<BR>Although - I would laugh my ass off if Rose were reinstated and +26% of the writers refused to vote for him because of his character flaws. A couple of the guys in the Pittsburgh papers with HOF votes have already said that they won´t vote for him....

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Post by wco81 »

I used to hate Rose as a player but that´s probably because he played on opposing teams. The personality and the hard-ass attitude also rubbed the wrong way, although I´m sure these things made other people fans of his.
<BR>
<BR>His prowess probably made haters of those who supported other teams, not unlike the dynamic with Bonds now. But years after the heat of battle, you can´t deny his accomplishments.
<BR>
<BR>Now I understand he violated the cardinal rule but it´s probably because I don´t really care about the HoF that I really don´t care if they let him in or not. I don´t care which movies win the Oscars either. In Rose´s case, all this sound and fury going on right now would simply disappear if he went into the HoF.
<BR>
<BR>And for people who don´t care about the HoF, that means he pretty much disappears.

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Post by RiverRat »

Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame, but does not need to be reinstated into baseball.
<BR>
<BR>Put a different way, Baseball NEEDS to put Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame. Why? Because his career in its entirety deserves to be and needs to be remembered and memorialized for future generations of fans. His was one of the greatest playing careers in the history of the game. He was/is one of the most polarizing personalities in the game even now, long after his career is over. If the Hall of Fame is equivalent to the “Museum of Baseball History”, he needs to be in it, not for his sake, but for the game’s sake. And as such, his story doesn’t need to be glossed over or grandized.
<BR>
<BR>I agree with those that say put him in, mention his accomplishments, mention his failings, and clearly state why he was forever banned from the game. Put him in and tell his story.
<BR>
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