Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Dave »

It's been a while since I've been as frightened by a crash as Grosjean's this weekend. My son and I settled in to watch the start of the F1 race and holy sh*t I was nearly certain we lost him--not just the raging fire but also horrendous angle of the impact into the Armco barrier. Every replay, camera angle, and picture made it an even more shocking incident. Safe to say that pre-halo we are having a different conversation.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Rodster »

I didn't get a chance to watch any of the race yesterday but read that Romain Grosjean's crash. ESPN reported the crash was 53G's on impact, ouch. I don't remember what Robert Kubica's crash in Montreal was like when he too hit the barriers at high speed? That was equally as scary as well. But all are saying in the F1 community that it was the Halo that saved Grosjean.

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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by pk500 »

Anyone who complains about the Halo in F1 or the Aeroscreen in IndyCar is a blood-thirsty asshole after yesterday. The Halo clearly saved Grosjean's life.

The next safety challenge for racing is a replacement for Armco barriers. They're so unsafe. One would think another alternative would have been developed after Francois Cevert was decapitated in 1973 at Watkins Glen after his car went through an Armco barrier in the United States Grand Prix. Yet here we are, 47 years later, and bare Armco still lines racetracks around the world.

Inexcusable.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Dave »

pk500 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:11 pm
The next safety challenge for racing is a replacement for Armco barriers. They're so unsafe. One would think another alternative would have been developed after Francois Cevert was decapitated in 1973 at Watkins Glen after his car went through an Armco barrier in the United States Grand Prix. Yet here we are, 47 years later, and bare Armco still lines racetracks around the world.

Inexcusable.
Had the exact same thought yesterday.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by GB_Simo »

My best mate rang me, audibly shaken, straight after the impact. Half an hour later we were still at a loss for words. I can't comprehend that I watched Romain climb out of that. I know with certainty that I've never been quite so pleased to see his face.
pk500 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:11 pm
The next safety challenge for racing is a replacement for Armco barriers. They're so unsafe. One would think another alternative would have been developed after Francois Cevert was decapitated in 1973 at Watkins Glen after his car went through an Armco barrier in the United States Grand Prix. Yet here we are, 47 years later, and bare Armco still lines racetracks around the world.

Inexcusable.
Jody Scheckter's account of Cevert's crash scene is haunting. Having arrived first on the scene, he pulled over, left his car and moved urgently to reach Francois, with the Tyrrell's battery sparking like crazy and flammable liquid everywhere. Jody remembers reaching out to unfasten Cevert's seatbelts, then walking away and telling his fellow drivers there was nothing to be done. He remembers nothing of what he saw to make him walk away, because his mind will not let him.

It's not as if Cevert's accident was a one-off either. Gerry Birrell, Bert Hawthorne, Helmut Koinigg at the Glen a year after Cevert...and think of Rick Mears at Sanair, or AJ at Michigan, plus people like John Love and Clay Regazzoni whose heads stopped just short of the upper rail.

What's most concerning to the layman is the number of quotes from the FIA and various track designers saying the barrier did exactly what it should have done. Perhaps it did, but it's very difficult for someone like me, lacking in specialist knowledge of these matters, to fully understand why it might be desirable for open-cockpit cars to travel straight through metal fences.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by GB_Simo »

Hearts all a-flutter at the Nico Hulkenberg Fan Club HQ, you suspect:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... n=widget-1

Vandoorne probably makes more sense, given that he's one of Merc's reserves and the other one is Esteban Gutierrez. I really wouldn't mind one last round of Hulkenback with a genuine shot at that elusive podium, though.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Dave »

I'm VERY interested to see how the replacement driver does vs. Bottas, and any of those three are fine with me. Hulkenberg is probably my sentimental preference, for the very reason you called out.

How about George Russell? That could be fun, want to see how that kid really stacks up.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by pk500 »

There's no way in hell Williams will release Russell, despite his Mercedes ties. He's the only competent driver in that team's race and test lineup, the only one there on merit.

Williams DESPERATELY needs to score some Constructors' points in the last two races to try and earn some badly need prize funds. Latifi -- a clown totally unworthy of an F1 drive -- and the rest of Williams' "Daddy's money" test drivers don't have a snowball's chance on the surface of the sun of doing that.

I'm sure Williams could negotiate a release fee with Mercedes for Russell for the next two weekends. But why would Mercedes spend that money when it could use Vandoorne or Hulkenberg? I would think Vandoorne is all but a shoo-in because he knows the car, the team, its systems, etc. He's plug and play.

BIG pressure on Bottas this weekend and possibly at Abu Dhabi. He MUST beat Hamilton's replacement at both races barring reliability or a crash not of his making, or his standing in the team will plummet.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by F308GTB »

I guess a way in hell was found! Russell has outperformed the Williams car all year, so it's nice he is getting this opportunity.

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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by pk500 »

That's very surprising, and I eat a big plate of crow!

Happy to see what Russell can do in that elite car. Bottas is definitely on notice this weekend, as Russell appears to be more of a threat than Vandoorne.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by GB_Simo »

pk500 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:03 am
Happy to see what Russell can do in that elite car. Bottas is definitely on notice this weekend, as Russell appears to be more of a threat than Vandoorne.
Big weekend for VB, isn't it? Anything other than winning the race dominantly is going to leave his job right there to be shot at.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Dave »

Any chance this ends up with Mercedes paying Williams to run Bottas next season? Sure would be a statement if Russell outpaces him out of the gate, Bottas need to turn his form around, especially in the race
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by GB_Simo »

Dave wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:27 am
Any chance this ends up with Mercedes paying Williams to run Bottas next season? Sure would be a statement if Russell outpaces him out of the gate, Bottas need to turn his form around, especially in the race
Another couple of sessions like that one and someone's going to be rifling through Valtteri's contract to see exactly how they worded it. "Does it say he needs to drive for us, or do we just need to get him a drive in F1 somewhere...?"
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by pk500 »

I almost hope Russell doesn't win this weekend. That will only amplify the inane, boorish cries of "It's all car" and obscure the fact that George Russell is a hell of a driver who has carried the Williams into places it doesn't deserve for the last two seasons.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Rodster »

pk500 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:19 am
I almost hope Russell doesn't win this weekend. That will only amplify the inane, boorish cries of "It's all car" and obscure the fact that George Russell is a hell of a driver who has carried the Williams into places it doesn't deserve for the last two seasons.
I don't know about that because both Russell and Norris have been perceived as future stars. He just made it official today. Here's the difference as you and Adam well know. A star driver is one who produces as expected and then some, Russel, Norris, Ricciardo, Mad Max and Leclerc fit the bill. Then you have drivers like Valteri, Ocon who are in the group who you see in them star potential but when it comes time to meet expectations they are either inconsistent or fall short. The only way to figure out if that driver is really a star is to give them the equipment.

In last years Monza GP, Bottas was asked to beat Leclerc when Lewis couldn't and he fell short. Right then Merc knew Bottas was cosigned as a #2 driver.

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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Rodster »

Russell makes it 2 for 2. 8)

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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by GB_Simo »

Rodster wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:03 pm
Russell makes it 2 for 2. 8)
What would alarm me if I was at Mercedes this evening isn't the headline lap time. Bottas is quicker on a long run and, as Russell admits, would have been quicker in his quali sim too were it not for two track limit breaches. I'd be more concerned by how scrappy Bottas looked - a lock-up here, a run through the gravel there. It may very well be an unfortunate coincidence, and Valtteri may well just have been unhappy with his car, but perception is reality and it'd be very easy to perceive that he's making silly mistakes under some unexpected pressure.

Nothing that can't be sorted for tomorrow, and he's still the favourite for pole position. Definitely work to be done, though.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Rodster »

GB_Simo wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:09 pm
Rodster wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:03 pm
Russell makes it 2 for 2. 8)
What would alarm me if I was at Mercedes this evening isn't the headline lap time. Bottas is quicker on a long run and, as Russell admits, would have been quicker in his quali sim too were it not for two track limit breaches. I'd be more concerned by how scrappy Bottas looked - a lock-up here, a run through the gravel there. It may very well be an unfortunate coincidence, and Valtteri may well just have been unhappy with his car, but perception is reality and it'd be very easy to perceive that he's making silly mistakes under some unexpected pressure.

Nothing that can't be sorted for tomorrow, and he's still the favourite for pole position. Definitely work to be done, though.
No arguments from me but Sports is a results business. Everyone tends to focus on the results and not how it was done. Fans still laud the hand of god goal by Maradona. The thing is that just because a driver gets a winning car doesn’t mean they are going to get the best out of it. Russell is driving a car he’s not seen and put in some impressive laps and he was more consistent than Bottas.

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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by GB_Simo »

I'm delighted for Sergio Perez. I am. He drove a fantastic race, the perfect mix of aggression and his usual tyre-whispering act after being stone dead last on lap 1. The rumour is that Red Bull are split into 3 factions (Thai owner, Austrian owner, race team) who are 2:1 in favour of keeping Albon. Surely that has to change.

But...

The consolation for George is presumably that in his brilliant late-race move on Bottas, we were given a visual representation of Russell locking himself into the works Mercedes gig. Look beyond the result and it's an opportunity seized wonderfully by a man who had the race won, twice.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Dave »

What. A. Race. We got...

A lap one crash that had Max Verstappen complaining about other drivers being too aggressive (quite rich)

Martin Brundle going on and on about how Perez caused the lap one incident because surely he needed to leave the apex open in case someone aimed right at his rear tire

Perez putting his head down from that point and putting in a hell of a drive. I thought it was cool that he was obviously on his way to a podium, little did I know what was ahead

Bottas looking increasingly rattled

The Sky Sports crew going wild for Albon making passes for 7th place (or worse)

As you said, Russell putting himself in a position to win the race twice. First with a composed drive leading for the first time and then driving like he would not be denied the opportunity to get on the top step

Then he stormed back from 15th (right?) to earn his first-ever points

More questions about what exactly Racing Point thinks it is getting out of Vettel that it can't get out of Perez

Lance Stroll insisting he could have won the race, too

Ocon took advantage of things falling his way with the VSC and got a podium, good for him!

An all-time post-race quote from Toto Wolff

Just a fantastic race to watch, my 6-year old was pissed that the Mercedes team never makes these mistakes for Lewis and cost Russell the race. The Perez situation is such an odd one, has a driver that comes with healthy sponsorship and his skill level been on the outside looking in like this? If Red Bull doesn't come to their senses (clearly Perez's drive was just as scrappy as anything Albon has done moving up from 10th to 5th in the course of multiple races this year) it would be a coup for IndyCar to find a way to get Checo in a car.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by DChaps »

I would love to see Checo in an Indycar, but I am not sure where he would go at this point. All his post race interviews show what a quality guy he seems to be. Doesn't throw his team under the bus and just seems thankful for his opportunities. I guess maybe at 30 he is just considered too old? As far as the consistency of his drives this season, I would rate him #2 to Lewis at this point. He is at the top of his game for sure.

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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Rodster »

DChaps wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:19 am
I would love to see Checo in an Indycar, but I am not sure where he would go at this point. All his post race interviews show what a quality guy he seems to be. Doesn't throw his team under the bus and just seems thankful for his opportunities. I guess maybe at 30 he is just considered too old? As far as the consistency of his drives this season, I would rate him #2 to Lewis at this point. He is at the top of his game for sure.
Nice to see him win but certainly his move to McLaren was much too early in his career and it set him back where it took a few years out of his career to build his reputation back up with Force India and it's something he readily admits. A quality dude and driver for sure.

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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by GB_Simo »

So, how about that 15 year old Renault, huh?

I'm sure there was a reason for choosing traditionally the most soporific race of the season to showcase an old car that looked livelier and sounded better than the new ones. I just haven't worked out what it is.

I'm told there was also a motor race today for the current crop but I'm buggered if I can recall any of it.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by Dave »

Somehow Abu Dhabi managed to live down to my expectations, can't stand races at that track both in real life and virtual. Just start over or find a way to run a different layout, please.

And it is remarkable how much faster the old Renault looked, isn't it? They're 5 seconds a lap faster than the inaugural race at Yas Marina but it sure doesn't seem it on TV. The sound is, of course, the headline but I couldn't get over how much nimbler the R25 looked.

Onward to what is hopefully a better 2021 season for everyone involved in racing.
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Re: Racing Season 2020 (Spoiler Alert)

Post by pk500 »

Yas Marina is a dreadful circuit -- the peak of Tilkedrome design.
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