NASCAR Heat 4

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by DChaps »

TCrouch wrote:Don, I saw on your Mixer video from today that you're using a wheel. Do you have "normal" FF with the wheel (and which one are you using)?

Using my Xbox hub and the Clubsport v2, it's this constant "chattering", like it is simulating me driving down a cobblestone road. It's very distracting, and the only option I had was to turn the strength down to about 10% to make it almost a dead wheel.

Does the FF feel normal and smooth to you, or is it very "chattery", for lack of a better word?
Yes, it can be very "chattery" and that is annoying. I am using the Thrustmaster TX 458 Italia with the Sparco Rally Wheel Add-On and T3PA-Pro 3 Pedals. After feeling initially pretty good about the default FFB and wheel settings in Nascar Heat 4, with further play I am finding the wheel/FFB is really hit and miss. It seems to be car/track combinations but I need to keep trying to make sure. There are also still way too few customizations that can be done for the wheel/ffb, or at least any that make sense. On some tracks I am getting exactly what you are describing and these are not even dirt tracks. For example, the Charlotte Roval in the trucks feel like I am driving on huge gravel rocks in a Jeep, but yet the dirt cars at Bristol feel pretty good. Chattery is a very good word for it. I have been trying to find some advice on how to get this better dialed in but have not come across anything helpful yet. I can usually adjust after a few laps, but it is definitely a distraction. I know I sound like a broken record, but I am always amazed at how good the out of the box FFB feels with FM7 and FH4, but most other games - Dirt 2.0, Project Cars 2, WRC series, Heat, F1 series, etc. all require a good bit of tweaking for me to get to something that feels intuitive. Post here if you find anything helpful and I will as well.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by TCrouch »

Don,

Steve over at OS found this for me:

"This is what I found.

https://twitter.com/TheSeanWilson/statu ... 2455267328

So one of our wonderful players helped us track down a bug that we had a hard time reproducing. If you are playing on Xbox One X or PS4 Pro and noticing “unusually high” wheel vibration...go to game options and change “Performance” setting to “Quality.” Working on fix."


Will try it tonight, but when I dropped the effects all the way down to 1-notch-above off, and turned my wheel itself up to 150 FF, it was serviceable last night.

I shudder to think what "Quality" will do to the framerate when "Performance" already has issues, but if the FF is better, I'll deal with it.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by J_Cauthen »

DChaps wrote:
TCrouch wrote:Don, I saw on your Mixer video from today that you're using a wheel. Do you have "normal" FF with the wheel (and which one are you using)?

Using my Xbox hub and the Clubsport v2, it's this constant "chattering", like it is simulating me driving down a cobblestone road. It's very distracting, and the only option I had was to turn the strength down to about 10% to make it almost a dead wheel.

Does the FF feel normal and smooth to you, or is it very "chattery", for lack of a better word?
Yes, it can be very "chattery" and that is annoying. I am using the Thrustmaster TX 458 Italia with the Sparco Rally Wheel Add-On and T3PA-Pro 3 Pedals. After feeling initially pretty good about the default FFB and wheel settings in Nascar Heat 4, with further play I am finding the wheel/FFB is really hit and miss.
LOL... I just saw that Terry posted the same news about the performance/quality setting while I was posting. I'll leave mine alone since I raised some other questions in my post, but this does give me some hope that there's a work-around fix already on the vine.

I read a discussion on Sean Wilson's Twitter page that a user found a solution to this by going into the game options, and switching "Performance" to "Quality", and that fixed it. Another user chimed in later and said he had to go one step further (below) but it worked:

"Ok I take that back.. switched from quality > perf > back to quality and now it’s completely gone. Pretty sure I turned the centering spring off and on too while diagnosing and it feels pretty smooth now. No more vibrating."

First of all, I'm surprised to see a quality/performance setting option? I thought the game was locked at 30 FPS? I'd like to know what, other than abating the rattling on force feedback wheels, changing from performance to quality does? Maybe it upgrades the graphic detail? They've certainly made no claims of 4K or HDR support.

I'll be interested in hearing how you guys get along with this. I was going to hold off until it went on sale in the $20 to $30 range, since it doesn't support 4K. Then I read you guys reports about the handling, AI, and lack of 'center pole' steering, and you got my attention! I still run a race or two on NASCAR HEAT 2 (passed on 3 because it didn't do 4K) and enjoy it when I do... I just know it could be so much better.

I may hold off for the standard edition of the PC version, where I might be able to tweak the graphics settings a bit and get some faster frame rates. Still, I'm very curious about what the "Performance/Quality" setting does in the game options of NASCAR HEAT 4? I'm guessing this would be under graphics settings? I'd never have know there was such an option in the game had I not read it from a user on their Twitter replies. :?

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by J_Cauthen »

TCrouch wrote:Don,

Steve over at OS found this for me:

"This is what I found.

https://twitter.com/TheSeanWilson/statu ... 2455267328

So one of our wonderful players helped us track down a bug that we had a hard time reproducing. If you are playing on Xbox One X or PS4 Pro and noticing “unusually high” wheel vibration...go to game options and change “Performance” setting to “Quality.” Working on fix."


Will try it tonight, but when I dropped the effects all the way down to 1-notch-above off, and turned my wheel itself up to 150 FF, it was serviceable last night.

I shudder to think what "Quality" will do to the framerate when "Performance" already has issues, but if the FF is better, I'll deal with it.
Yeah... if you're experiencing frame rate issues in performance mode on an "X", I can't imagine that's going to get any better in quality, but then again if that reply I tacked on from a Twitter reply is true, going Quality/Performance, and then back to Quality worked for him.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by TCrouch »

I'd hold off for a few patches if frame rate issues bug you (they normally bug me a TON), but man...after a couple nights of solid racing, I can't stop playing it. Even with horrible FF the first couple of nights on the Xbox One X.

The racing itself is the best I've ever experienced in an oval racer. Cars will kick wide, split and run three wide, pass you outside or inside if they get a run...they'll even intentionally bump-and-pass you when they send you scooting up the track. The pavement racing is absolutely phenomenal. The dirt racing....well, it's fun. I started a career on Legend difficulty with my own team, so I can't really compete yet. I get steamrolled by everybody, and I can't even get top 22 finishes (out of 24 cars). Cars will just divebomb me every corner and out-pull me on the straights, but it is what it is. I signed up for that.

Everything about the on-track experience is unbelievably good. The frame rate sucks, and the game engine sucks, as is well documented in this thread :lol:

But for a really GOOD NASCAR experience, I can't put it down. If you're not itching for amazing racing and get your fix from NH2, you're better off waiting. I will say, though, that it's wonderful being able to intentionally back it down for a corner, staying 2 or 3 lanes higher on the track, and saving my tires better than the AI now. I have been a textbook "long run" car in almost every race. I get steam rolled early, and then end up absolutely charging around guys late in runs--even at places like Atlanta where tire wear is such a massive deal. Couldn't do that in NH2 or NH3, because the AI didn't fall off properly, and they'd always blaze bat-out-of-Hell into corner entry like it was the last lap of a race.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by TCrouch »

That "Quality" setting COMPLETELY fixed my Force Feedback issues. It went from being great racing with horrible force feedback implementation (so bad I was thinking of racing primarily with a controller, but I hate trying to race ovals with a controller) to one of the most amazing oval experiences I've had.

Their feedback is so good on my Clubsport V2 with XBox Universal Hub and Clubsport V3 pedals that there are actually big differences in the FF from new to old tires, even! They have my preferred FF style out of the box now. I tend to like a "stiffer" wheel without a lot of shock, and I only had to drop the strength about 1 tick for it to feel brilliant.

When you're on new tires, the wheel will fight back a lot as the tires dig into the track. But later in a run, when you are on old rubber, the wheel is very sloppy, and you can absolutely FEEL how slippery the car is. Knowing that's coming without having to see what's happening on the screen is incredible.

I left my wheel FF on 100, dropped brake force down to about 75%, and dropped effects strength 1 tick in-game. That has been absolutely amazing for me. I think the brakes are a little twitchy (even with the sliders at their default 50% value), so lowering the brake strength on my wheel made everything very smooth.

Brilliant game with a crappy engine :lol:

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by J_Cauthen »

TCrouch wrote:That "Quality" setting COMPLETELY fixed my Force Feedback issues. It went from being great racing with horrible force feedback implementation (so bad I was thinking of racing primarily with a controller, but I hate trying to race ovals with a controller) to one of the most amazing oval experiences I've had.
This is certainly encouraging to read! Did you notice anything different in the appearance or frame rate performance when you switched from Performance to Quality?

Your comments about the quality of the force feedback has probably pushed me over the "postpone until put on sale" purchase restriction for this one. I was already leaning that way after reading your thoughts on how well the AI performed Now I've just got to decide whether I want the PC or the XBox One version. I have a Thrustmaster TX Leather steering wheel which is compatible with each.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by TCrouch »

The "quality" setting only did one thing I could notice--make the shadows "speckled", if that makes sense. Almost to a distracting level, like the shadows are too high detail and the engine doesn't know how to handle that, so it all comes out as a shadow with light speckles in it. Hard to explain, but instantly noticeable when you see it.

Overall, though, it's phenomenal even racing for 23rd place in career mode in trucks. There was a sequence last night where I kept trying to go low around a truck I caught at Atlanta. The tires were wearing, I had chased him down, so I knew I was faster. But when I caught up, he gave me basically ONE LANE to work with underneath. I'd throw the truck down in there, but if I got on the gas, I was going to lose the rear end. I had very little grip left. It took me 3 straight laps at Atlanta pitching it in, getting underneath, trying to control it, and watching him carry more speed down the straights. Repeat over and over.

Finally, I had worn my tires out so much trying to hug the inside that I just fell in line behind him and drove up on him hard down the back chute, bumped him getting into 3, and was finally able to push him up the track enough to get by. Then I ran away from him.

But that sequence--going door to door, feeling everything the truck was doing, having an AI competitor that raced fairly, yet didn't give me an INCH to exploit him--was amazing.

I had similar experiences at Bristol, Kansas, Chicagoland, etc. Bristol in particular was a blast, since both lines work now. If you choose to run high, you can do it. Not a single track is "one line around it" anymore, it doesn't feel. Both you and the AI can use the outside line to carry more speed down the next straight, which changes everything.

I'm not playing it on PC simply because it's tough to get my cockpit lined up to my gaming desk, and my monitors are on a swing arm that makes it very sketchy if I pull it straight out to get closer to the cockpit (the main monitor is heavy AF). I race on PC when I have VR, but I'm primarily going to run this on XBox, even with the framerate issues.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by J_Cauthen »

TCrouch wrote:The "quality" setting only did one thing I could notice--make the shadows "speckled", if that makes sense. Almost to a distracting level, like the shadows are too high detail and the engine doesn't know how to handle that, so it all comes out as a shadow with light speckles in it. Hard to explain, but instantly noticeable when you see it.

Overall, though, it's phenomenal even racing for 23rd place in career mode in trucks. There was a sequence last night where I kept trying to go low around a truck I caught at Atlanta. The tires were wearing, I had chased him down, so I knew I was faster. But when I caught up, he gave me basically ONE LANE to work with underneath. I'd throw the truck down in there, but if I got on the gas, I was going to lose the rear end. I had very little grip left. It took me 3 straight laps at Atlanta pitching it in, getting underneath, trying to control it, and watching him carry more speed down the straights. Repeat over and over.

Finally, I had worn my tires out so much trying to hug the inside that I just fell in line behind him and drove up on him hard down the back chute, bumped him getting into 3, and was finally able to push him up the track enough to get by. Then I ran away from him.

But that sequence--going door to door, feeling everything the truck was doing, having an AI competitor that raced fairly, yet didn't give me an INCH to exploit him--was amazing.

I had similar experiences at Bristol, Kansas, Chicagoland, etc. Bristol in particular was a blast, since both lines work now. If you choose to run high, you can do it. Not a single track is "one line around it" anymore, it doesn't feel. Both you and the AI can use the outside line to carry more speed down the next straight, which changes everything.

I'm not playing it on PC simply because it's tough to get my cockpit lined up to my gaming desk, and my monitors are on a swing arm that makes it very sketchy if I pull it straight out to get closer to the cockpit (the main monitor is heavy AF). I race on PC when I have VR, but I'm primarily going to run this on XBox, even with the framerate issues.
I've seen the shadow with light speckles you're talking about in The Golf Club 2... yes it can be annoying. Is it really that noticeable at race speed though?

The sequence you describe at Atlanta with the raceable, yet aggressive AI, and to feel subtle yet progressive tire wear effects is what appeals to me in racing, whether it's for first place or 23rd place!

I'm reading the Steam forum for NASCAR HEAT 4 and there are complaints about three things: stuttering animation, even though the frame rate counter is showing 60 FPS, blurriness (motion blur?) and very light force feedback effects. Two owners have confirmed there is no centering spring option for the wheel though :?

It sounds like there's a shadow detail setting in the PC version. I'm going to ask for confirmation on that, and also whether there's an option to turn motion blur on or off in the Steam forum. Neither of these options exist on the XBox One do they?

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by TCrouch »

There's definitely a centering spring on the console version. I don't have my wheel/cockpit near the PC at this point, so they'd be a better source of an answer on that.

Yes, speckled shadows are noticeable. Because you're following the cars (and the cars are casting shadows under them), that's where I noticed it the most. Not track shadows or environment stuff, but usually under the rear of the car I'm following.

Force Feedback effects are flawless on console, but chances are whatever bug they had to unlock framerates on XBox One X applies to PC, as well. And there's no simple "performance/quality" toggle to fix it.

Motion blur, strangely, looks good to me in this game. I normally hate motion blur, but when it gets rid of the aliasing on fences and lightpoles around the track, I really like its use here. I still see aliasing on the inside of tracks (especially when coming to the green flag and everything is slow), but honestly, even on XBox, I think the game overall looks very nice. And I thought the earlier Heats looked like a hot mess on console, but were playable.

Now I think this one looks good, and it's AMAZING as far as the racing goes. If you think they spin out too easily, you can just bump their stability up. You can turn down the impact forces they have on you if you feel like it. You can make their tires wear faster (or slower) than yours. You can increase or decrease the grip loss you experience as your tires wear. Spread the field out or bunch them up.

It really sounds like a commercial, but they put so many controls in there that there is a setting for every type of driver that gives them a ton of fun.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by J_Cauthen »

I wound up buying the XBox One standard edition yesterday, after reading all of Don and Terry's comments about it. I also saw some negative comments from PC version owners, particularly about force feedback wheel performance, in the Steam forum. It seems that the complaints about "stuttering" were users mistaking bumpiness for stuttering. I do see more pronounced bumpiness in the car, but I didn't mistake it for stuttering on my XBox One X. I think the cockpit shaking and bumping is more accurately portrayed in 4 than it was in 2 (I never bought 3).

Anyway, on to the game itself... I'm very pleased with it. Terry's description of the way the AI performs in this game is on the mark. It's like racing with human controlled cars, but mostly 'sportsmanlike' humans. I haven't noticed any uncalled for maliciousness on the part of the AI, outside of their impatience with you getting out of the pits in practice... they will give you a not so subtle nudge when you're taking your time getting up to speed :wink: They will take different lines and show unique behaviors, and you can see their tendencies change with tire wear. It's beyond anything I've seen in any racing game I've ever played, even the Driveatars of Forza 7!

I've got a Thrustmaster TX Leather wheel with T3PA pedals and the game works great with it. It's as good as the force feedback in Project CARS 2, even though it's not nearly as intricately configurable. The default settings weren't all that far from what I dialed in. I wound up leaving the centering spring off after trying it a while. It proved to be too strong a force on top of the already formidable wheel force feedback. I wound up at 2 ticks to the left of the default force feedback. This gave a good combined feel of handling effects (which are much better communicated in 4 than 2) and overall wheel resistance, even with the centering spring OFF.

I did have to change the video setting from "Performance" to "Quality" to get rid of the incessant chattering with the wheel. I'd be hard pressed to identify what graphics improvements were made by going to quality. The only thing I did notice was the speckled shadows that Terry's already pointed out. I didn't really analyze them that heavily. My biggest complaint about this game is its sluggish frame rate. It sort of feels like racing underwater at times. I think there are occasions where it judders because it can't sustain 30 FPS. It's only about maybe 6 to 10 frames per second below having a really good, fluid feel. This didn't seem to change for me between Performance and Quality settings. I wish they had a Performance mode that truly would deliver higher frame rates, especially on the XBox One X, but to my untrained eye, it doesn't. The game's graphics are prettier, overall, than NH2, but I just can't believe that an XBox One X couldn't deliver it in 1080p @60 FPS, Unity 2018 or not!?

I started my career out in "Hard" and with the default car setups, I find that I can't compete against the AI very well. I'm usually last in qualifying by .2 to .5 seconds, depending on the track. I finished 27th in a truck race, after starting 32nd. In the last five laps, I was in a pack of four trucks at 27 thru 30th place. We each held every position in that span more than once. I swapped positions twice with one truck in the same lap! It was some of the best racing I've every experience, console or PC! I can't say enough about it!

I've got the wheel range set at about 60%, wheel sensitivity at about 60%, brake sensitivity up to75%, and everything else at default. I did turn on "Track Effects" in the force feedback. Even with these settings, and an overall force feedback strength of less than half of what it could be, it still felt a wee bit too stiff. This proved to be too much for my wheel after about an hour and a half of racing last night, when it shut down, for only the second time in the three years I've owned it, due to overheating. The wheel's fine this morning BTW. I'll dial the overall force feedback down one more tick to see if that's the sweetspot. After a 13% race at Atlanta last night, I must say that the force feedback I had was a bit more than I wanted.

As disappointed as I am with the frame rate and so-so 1080p graphics, the quality racing AI, realistic car handling, and force feedback modeling and effects more than offset them. This game has got a lot of hidden character. I suspect it's going to get a little better with a patch or two, but even in it's current state, I've got a game that I'll be on a honeymoon with for quite a while! :D

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by TCrouch »

Great to hear, man. I have the same problems with it (framerate number one, and I didn't see any change in "Quality", either except the shadows), but man--the racing gives me grins I haven't had in years against AI. I've played it for hours every day since the it released, and still can't get enough of it.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by J_Cauthen »

TCrouch wrote:Great to hear, man. I have the same problems with it (framerate number one, and I didn't see any change in "Quality", either except the shadows), but man--the racing gives me grins I haven't had in years against AI. I've played it for hours every day since the it released, and still can't get enough of it.
There's an intangible quality to this game that has to be experienced to grasp. I started a career mode with the truck series (I just can't get into dirt track racing for some reason, although I probably at least need to try it) and they've added some spice to their career mode that I wasn't expecting. Just finished racing at Martinsville, and that's where I got real acquainted with my competitors :o It was a great race for the most part though. I qualified 26th and finished 21st, thanks to a wreck that took out 2 of my competitors and slowed a number of other cars down. I had a black flag penalty for entering the pit too fast, so without that break with the wreck, I'd have probably finished 30th, or higher.

This is as excited as I've been in a long time for a Career mode in a racing game. I'm getting more out of this one's career mode than F1 2019!

Oh, as for wheel and force feedback settings, I wound up going with: Force Feedback effects - 30%, Centering Spring - OFF, Steering Range - 60%, Sensitivity - 50%, Brake Sensitivity - 70%, Throttle Sensitivity - 50%, Impact Effects - ON. Even with the force feedback effects at 20%, the centering spring being on put too much force on the wheel. At 10% force feedback effects, the centering force overwhelmed the force feedback force. I'm sure all of this will vary from wheel to wheel. I haven't read of anyone using only 30% force feedback effects like me, but I've not read a report from another Thrustmaster TX user either.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by Rodster »

I got a chance to try out the PC version and it's just a slightly souped version of the past. Performance is slightly better but the game still has that Unity "haze" as you drive around the track in cockpit mode. I do like the AI in this years game. I don't recall seeing the AI taking different lines out on the track. In the truck race I watched as I tried chasing the field and watching several trucks taking the high-side groove.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by WPatrick »

I’ve had an excellent weekend with Nascar Heat 4. I got the PS4 version & I'm really enjoying it!

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by pk500 »

Gratefully got my mitts on a code for NH4 through work. Eager to try it and see the new racing AI and just how much the framerate and graphics struggle on an OG Xbox One.
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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by TCrouch »

Framerate is going to be rough (unless they just did nothing for the X and it's identical on both), but the AI is amazing.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by J_Cauthen »

TCrouch wrote:Framerate is going to be rough (unless they just did nothing for the X and it's identical on both), but the AI is amazing.
I think what they did is lock the frame rate at 30 FPS on both the stock and the X. It would seem that they put the "Quality" graphics setting in there for the X, with the idea that it would still be able to sustain 30 FPS with whatever added frills the Quality setting has. At least Paul will be able to use the "Performance" setting (and Paul, I'll be curious to learn if the Performance/Quality setting shows up as an option on your OG) without getting the chattering on a steering wheel... provided the thumbstick doesn't chatter? I may have to test that out just to see for myself.

Meanwhile, I'm continuing to enjoy my career mode, which I started in the truck series. I've got the AI perfectly tuned to my abilities. I had a 25% (4X wear and fuel) race at Kansas two nights ago. I had my first top 10 qualifying position. During the race I got as high as 6th place, and as low as 15th. I watched Travis Kvapil in front of me, progressively losing his grip coming out of turn 4, but I couldn't muster enough to pass him. I knew I was one lap away from having to pit, more for tires than for gas myself. in lap 26, I made up my mind I was going to pit when I finished lap 27. Kvapil totally lost his grip as he started lap 27 and spun into the infield.

I wound up finishing 10th, but I lost six positions when I pitted. My biggest weakness in this game is getting into the pits efficiently, without getting black flagged. I don't make the quickest pit exits either, as I'm always underestimating how much grip I really have until I get to the backstretch. This is just another part of what makes this game such a joy to play though! I love the challenge of pit management.

(EDIT): I just checked out the situation with the thumbstick control of NH4 on an XBox One X, with the graphics set to "Performance". There was no hint of chattering. I also can't put my finger on any graphical graphical differences other than the car shadows. There was a subtle, slightly more organic look to the visuals in the "Quality" setting, but I couldn't tell you what was responsible for it.

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by pk500 »

Can't help you on the wheel question, John -- I don't own one. Sorry.

But I'll let you know what graphics options are available on an OG Xbox One.
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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by J_Cauthen »

pk500 wrote:Can't help you on the wheel question, John -- I don't own one. Sorry.

But I'll let you know what graphics options are available on an OG Xbox One.
If the OG XBox One owner doesn't owns a force-feedback wheel and doesn't have the "Quality" option available to them, that would put the use of the wheel out of the picture, it would seem. I'm sure 704 will be able to address this in a patch, and hopefully one that will come soon.

My experiment this afternoon with thumbstick control while I was comparing Performance to Quality settings showed me how much further my car handling skills with a stick have declined. I couldn't hold a like if my life depended on it, at least not within 20% of racing speed.... man, that was humbling! :oops: :)

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by TCrouch »

This game just keeps on giving, but I did find a couple of annoyances after completing a few seasons in Career mode. I get WHY they do it this way, but it's sort of irritating.

First, I need another difficulty in between Hard and Legend in Career mode. Why can't they just let you set a percentage like they do everywhere else? On Hard, I won every dirt race, and then 15 of the 23 races in trucks. If I go into "Race Now" mode and set the AI to 100%, they seem to run about the same speed as they do on Hard.

However, if I set them to 105%, the game's max, the car/truck can't keep up with them without a lot of setup help. I just want to hop in and turn laps, not tweak setups for hours, which is where the percentage would be nice. What I find in Quick Race mode is that 102% or 103% make me work my ass off to get into the top 5, and not easily win every race. But I can't do that in career mode, so I either win every race, or can't ever HOPE to win a race. One or the other. The last ditch effort I have is to go with a lower-tier team, or forcibly restrict the upgrades on my cars when starting my own team to create a car that will compete at 100%, but not dominate.

Following up on that, if anybody ends up playing Career and having a plan like I did (drive for a Dirt team, then a Truck team--taking my winnings and starting a great XFinity team)....don't. No matter what you do, starting a team scales. I get why they do it...so you can start a team at the beginning with $3,000, but when you take the same structure with 1.2 million dollars and it costs you $250K to buy the same car later...that sort of makes it weird. It's impossible to start a great team out of the gate no matter when you do it. So if you want to build your own team, just start it from the beginning because there is no way around "the grind".

Luckily, all of that just turns out to be a minor annoyance. The racing and AI are so fantastic when you get into racing around the pack that it's easily forgettable. But when you can out-pull any car in a straight line, it just takes away a lot of that uncertainty and need to push.

/rant off, thanks! :P

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by pk500 »

Finally got around to putting NASCAR Heat 4 through its proper paces on my OG Xbox One. The verdict: It's fantastic -- everything you cats said it would be on track.

First, the graphics. Yep, there's some framerate chug at times on my OG Xbox One. But it's not as frequent or distracting to my driving as I imagined. Really no worse than NH 2 or NH 3.

Now for the good stuff. The AI is breathtaking, just as Terry, JC and all have said. So lifelike on all types of circuits. I feel like I'm watching an in-car camera from a NASCAR Cup Series race when I'm driving in this game (cockpit view only, of course!). It's THAT good.

But the biggest two positive changes for me are the easy setup slider and the tire wear.

I love the easy setup slider in the menu options during each session. I don't want to fiddle with individual setup parameters, so the slider works well. The changes are noticeable. There are only a couple of tracks fo for which I used more than one click from full tight, but the ability to loosen setups is nice.

The tire wear model is the biggest addition to this year's game. In NH 1-3, tire wear was noticeable, but you could often drive around it. Not so in NH 4. Your car will slide or push considerably, killing your lap times, if you push too hard on worn tires. It's a beautiful thing.

This is an excellent game. Driving my ass off and having a great time at the default Hard setting, using a controller.

Thanks for the tips and promotion of this game. I'm a VERY happy racing gamer with NH 4, F1 2019, Forza 7, DIRT Rally 2.0 and Isle of Man TT: Close to the Edge in my collection. I really don't need anything else at this time.
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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by TCrouch »

Tire wear is such a dramatic change, as are those options for increasing/decreasing the player's grip on worn tires, or changing how the AI is affected. And something they NAILED which is barely ever mentioned--those changes have a noticeable impact on every race. Changing AI skill to "wide" creates very slow (and very fast) cars, while compressing starts makes it harder to pick up a bunch of positions on every restart. Adjusting AI grip or skill at recovery dramatically changes how races play out.

I noticed on Xbox I already had something like 120 races showing on the main menu screen, and I had to go back and check NH3....which I played quite a bit at the beginning until I got frustrated, and I topped out at 55. So I already had more than twice as many races on NH4, and it's still amazing.

I think you hit on something I didn't even mention, though--the "loose/tight" slider is fantastic for basic tweaks. Somewhere like Atlanta that chewed up tires really had me figuring out how I wanted to change it, because in my first race there, with 6 laps to go, I KNEW I wasn't going to finish. I was loose in, tight in the center, loose off, and driving around like I was on ice. Sure enough, I wrecked with 3 to go.

Second time around at that track, I made the setup 1 click tighter, drove a line a lane and a half higher most of the race, and later in the run I was blowing by guys who were staying low like that.

Being able to learn and adapt to the tire wear and track state just keeps elevating this game higher and higher.

I'm with you, though---between this, F1 2019 (which I ran my first Williams career race last night and needed to take a "sweat break" when I was done), Dirt Rally, WRC 8, and iRacing...it's an absurd time to be a sim racer.

I would LOVE to have some sort of Poker Night for one of the racing games some day soon. We have enough guys in this little renaissance we're currently experiencing...

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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by pk500 »

TCrouch wrote:I would LOVE to have some sort of Poker Night for one of the racing games some day soon. We have enough guys in this little renaissance we're currently experiencing...
That would be fun as hell. But one request: Can we adjust the slider so you don't lap the field after 25 laps? :)
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Re: NASCAR Heat 4

Post by J_Cauthen »

pk500 wrote:That would be fun as hell. But one request: Can we adjust the slider so you don't lap the field after 2̶5̶ 15 laps? :)
Ditto, with the one exception noted above in my case! :)

OTOH, I did notice a track where the frame rate really was off and affected my performance... the Mid-Ohio road course... it was chugging on my X. I could manage it, but it feels a bit cumbersome.

You both make good points about the way the tire wear effects are modeled... it's very believable. I love the setup slider myself, although I'll go more toward loose on the super speedways and almost balanced on the banked speedways.

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