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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:10 pm 
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Well KD would not be moving for purely basketball reasons.

Kyrie is a big time shotmaker but he doesn't have gravity like Curry and especially like Curry and Klay combined.

He's used to playing with ball-dominant PG, taking ISO turns. He lived it the first 9 years of his career.

His seasons with the Warriors have been some of his most productive in his career, in terms of efficiency.


So I always believed he had non-basketball reasons for wanting to be in NY, since he's trying to establish business ties there. BTW, all these basketball players are trying to set up TV and movie production companies so maybe they see one big hit being able to return hundreds of millions or more. The Obamas and the Clintons are also setting up TV and movie production companies so there seems to be a certain gold rush mentality there, probably because Netflix paying for all these shows and Apple and Disney and others also getting into streaming.


Yeah I looked at the Knicks contracts. Lance Thomas has a $7.6 million salary for next season and then he's a UFA. Then they have a bunch of young guys making just under $5 million.

I don't know if the Knicks or any other team would have to send back the same amount in salaries. KD would early $38 and $41 million under his first two years under a 5-year super max deal. It would really be something else if one of these contracts were actually traded.

The idea behind super max or max deals was that the money was so high, players would stay with teams, even small market teams.

Right now, Rockets would probably like to trade Chris Paul's salary. Or maybe the Wiz would trade Wall if they could. Or OKC trade away Westbrook if his performance continues to decline.

But it's not easy, maybe a team would do it for marquee value, to get a big name.

However Knicks have experience trading several players for big stars, like the Carmelo trade. I don't think the team after the trade was better than they'd have been without the trade. But maybe attendance was up, tickets on the secondary market fetched higher prices, maybe local TV games had higher ratings. Maybe a lot of jersey sales, because teams don't have to share revenues from those with the players directly.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:44 pm 
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WTF is Pat Riley doing/thinking? Miami is already up against the cap because of Riley overpaying for average to above avg players. Then he signs JB for $140m on a 4 yr contract and sends Josh Richardson, a really good young player on a cap friendly contract to the Sixers.

Guaranteed Miami will probably gain 5-6 games and get tossed out of the 1st rd by the Sixers. Dumb move by Riley.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:53 pm 
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Teams are spending today. Even "small market" teams like the Pacers.

Jazz loaded up too, after trading for Conley.

Yeah I don't understand Miami's move either. They traded away Dragic, who I guess was no longer needed. Too many teams in the East spending to load up so I don't know that Miami will be in the mix.

I don't understand why Butler would want to leave Philly too, they were close.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:00 pm 
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wco81 wrote:
Teams are spending today. Even "small market" teams like the Pacers.

Jazz loaded up too, after trading for Conley.

Yeah I don't understand Miami's move either. They traded away Dragic, who I guess was no longer needed. Too many teams in the East spending to load up so I don't know that Miami will be in the mix.

I don't understand why Butler would want to leave Philly too, they were close.

Miami is Butlers kind of team i.e. hard nose effort but what's in it for Butler is that he becomes the defacto leader. And then of course there's South Beach.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:05 pm 
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Rodster wrote:
wco81 wrote:
Teams are spending today. Even "small market" teams like the Pacers.

Jazz loaded up too, after trading for Conley.

Yeah I don't understand Miami's move either. They traded away Dragic, who I guess was no longer needed. Too many teams in the East spending to load up so I don't know that Miami will be in the mix.

I don't understand why Butler would want to leave Philly too, they were close.

Miami is Butlers kind of team i.e. hard nose effort but what's in it for Butler is that he becomes the defacto leader. And then of course there's South Beach.



Is South Beach good for players who want to win?

Lebron was already married when he was with the Heat I think. Or else Miami might never have won. :D


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:13 pm 
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Don't forget that JB was rumored to be tagging KAT's girlfriend while playing in Minny. So SB should fit into JB's lifestyle quite well. And Butler is not going to make Miami a serious playoff contender.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:25 pm 
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No and the other teams in the East seem just as strong or stronger.

Makes no sense to give Butler this kind of deal unless there's a plan to add other high-end talent at some point.

Heat re-signed Winslow and they probably regret the deals they gave to Waiters and Whiteside.

But they traded Dragic so maybe Riley has a plan to open up cap space, if not this year, next year.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:03 pm 
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wco81 wrote:
No and the other teams in the East seem just as strong or stronger.

Makes no sense to give Butler this kind of deal unless there's a plan to add other high-end talent at some point.

Heat re-signed Winslow and they probably regret the deals they gave to Waiters and Whiteside.

But they traded Dragic so maybe Riley has a plan to open up cap space, if not this year, next year.

Dragic isn’t part of the deal. Dallas gets Kelly Olynyk and Derrick Jones Jr. Yeah Pat Riley overpaid for Whiteside, James Johnson, Waiters and now Butler. I can’t see this team getting past the 1st rd, that’s if they even make the playoffs. If they don’t Pat Riley is going to be feeling the heat (no pun intended).


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:08 am 
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Well Dragic COULD have been part of the original deal but somehow things got a bit screwed up. According to the Ft. Lauderdale Sun Sentinel this is what happened. So basically this deal may or may not happen yet because Dallas is out of the picture and Miami now has to scramble to find a team to replace Dallas:

"To make the deal work under the salary cap, the Heat initially were reported to have sent Goran Dragic to Dallas. The New York Times then reported that the Heat instead would be sending Kelly Olynyk and Derrick Jones Jr. to Dallas.

It is that Part II of the process that has the deal in limbo, with Dallas believing it had obtained Olynyk and Jones, while the Heat believed Dragic, not Olynyk-Jones, was the second part of the process."


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:17 am 
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wco81 wrote:
I don't understand why Butler would want to leave Philly too, they were close.


A whole lot of KD traits in that connection. Butler wants to be the main man on a team. He felt like an outsider in his most recent situation. Just like KD in Golden State.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:18 am 
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I have no words this morning as a Knicks' fan other than: F*CK YOU, JIM DOLAN. SELL THE TEAM NOW. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:40 pm 
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pk500 wrote:
wco81 wrote:
I don't understand why Butler would want to leave Philly too, they were close.


A whole lot of KD traits in that connection. Butler wants to be the main man on a team. He felt like an outsider in his most recent situation. Just like KD in Golden State.


Turns out they don’t want to give Butler a 5 year deal.

So they give 4 years to Horford, who’s 3 years older.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:04 pm 
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wco81 wrote:
pk500 wrote:
wco81 wrote:
I don't understand why Butler would want to leave Philly too, they were close.


A whole lot of KD traits in that connection. Butler wants to be the main man on a team. He felt like an outsider in his most recent situation. Just like KD in Golden State.


Turns out they don’t want to give Butler a 5 year deal.

So they give 4 years to Horford, who’s 3 years older.


Maybe Butler made it clear it was five years or nothing? And Horford is a VERY nice fit for the Sixers. Can shoot, doesn't need the ball in his hands to make a difference, excellent all-around player and a real leader in the locker room. Butler is a superb player who has left a wake of tattered minds and antipathy in every NBA locker room in which he has called home.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:17 pm 
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At least the Heat are dumping Whiteside.

As for the Suns...seems like they finally did something conservative and within reason giving Rubio a 3 year deal at 17 mil per. Bottom half of the league in terms of salary for a starting PG. I'm okay with it...just meh overall.

And Knicks...hahahahahahahaha. Nothing like tanking and trading for Zion/KD/Kyrie/whatever...and walking away with...Julius Randle. Nice player but def not worth that trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:34 pm 
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This has to be the most impactful free agency of all time.

Over $3 billion in contracts in the first 24 hours.

But most of the top teams are just retaining as much of their rosters as possible. Obviously the Lakers and Nets made big moves towards higher seeds in he playoffs.

However most of the spending is teams paying to keep their players.

Jamal Murray getting $170 million and Harris getting $180 million could both be big leaps by those teams hoping those players become perennial all stars.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:38 pm 
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pk500 wrote:
Butler is a superb player who has left a wake of tattered minds and antipathy in every NBA locker room in which he has called home.

That's true but Butler doesn't tolerate slackers and that's what he had in Chicago and Minnesota which is why he was pissed when Wiggans and KAT got Max deals and he didn't. In Philly I agree with what you said earlier that he knew he wasn't going to lead the team with Embiid and Simmons on the roster.

Miami will make him the bonefide star and team leader he wants to be. Solid player and someone on probasketballtalk.com posted his career minutes that says they are around 17,000 minutes which is lower than KD, LBJ and Westbrook.

dbdynsty25 wrote:
At least the Heat are dumping Whiteside.

As for the Suns...seems like they finally did something conservative and within reason giving Rubio a 3 year deal at 17 mil per. Bottom half of the league in terms of salary for a starting PG. I'm okay with it...just meh overall.

And Knicks...hahahahahahahaha. Nothing like tanking and trading for Zion/KD/Kyrie/whatever...and walking away with...Julius Randle. Nice player but def not worth that trouble.

Yeah but Miami had to soak up two player salaries that copmbined are close to 24 mil so it's better but not where the Heat need to be.

The funny part is even with Butler on the team I see the Heat +5-6 games this year and getting bounced in the 1st rd. It would have been better if they just let all these contracts expire and start over with youth but Pat Riley is too old to be interested in a total rebuild like the Philly "Process".


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:53 pm 
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wco81 wrote:
Jamal Murray getting $170 million and Harris getting $180 million could both be big leaps by those teams hoping those players become perennial all stars.


I don't think it's so much the Nuggets are hoping... it's that they have to hope. Denver is not a destination city, even with a great player like Jokic. You're just not going to get a max player here, so you have to keep the young good talent you have and hope they become perennial all-stars. Not too big of a stretch for Jamal to become that, but definitely not a certainty either.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:15 pm 
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Wilk5280 wrote:
wco81 wrote:
Jamal Murray getting $170 million and Harris getting $180 million could both be big leaps by those teams hoping those players become perennial all stars.


I don't think it's so much the Nuggets are hoping... it's that they have to hope. Denver is not a destination city, even with a great player like Jokic. You're just not going to get a max player here, so you have to keep the young good talent you have and hope they become perennial all-stars. Not too big of a stretch for Jamal to become that, but definitely not a certainty either.



You have to keep assets when you can. Jokic and Murray are still young so they can even become better.

But as great a season as they had last year, Murray has to become more consistent and they may still need another piece. Maybe Porter will be that. Because other teams in the NBA are not standing still, though Warriors took a big step or two back.

Kronkes are rich but I thought they'd said they wouldn't pay luxury taxes for the Nuggets. I don't know if they're coming close to it.

But I would assume the Nuggets are way less popular than the Broncos, so unless they can sell out the arena and raise their ticket prices, it may be hard to justify carry a huge payroll, since they own the Rams and Arsenal as well.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:18 pm 
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Nuggets fill the Pepsi Center when they're good. Again, you can offer max deals to high profile FA's, but they're getting those same offers from other teams and the players aren't going to come here when they can go to LA, NY, etc.

They paid the luxury tax back when they had Camby, Mello, Iverson, etc. They'll do it (or at least they've done it in the past), but it's difficult getting them to come. Nuggets certainly need Murray to be more consistent and, more importantly, another piece. They aren't keeping pace right now for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:28 am 
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Nice haul by the Clippers getting Leonard and PG13 although they supposedly gave up a lot for the trade, their 2018 1st rd pick, a player and 4 future 1st rd picks to OKC. Funny how no one wants to play with LeBron anymore. Should be fun watching both LA teams face each other.

And supposedly PG13 grew tried of Russ and wanted out of OKC which made this move possible.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:32 am 
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Rodster wrote:
Nice haul by the Clippers getting Leonard and PG13 although they supposedly gave up a lot for the trade, their 2018 1st rd pick, a player and 4 future 1st rd picks to OKC. Funny how no one wants to play with LeBron anymore. Should be fun watching both LA teams face each other.

And supposedly PG13 grew tried of Russ and wanted out of OKC which made this move possible.


Can’t imagine anyone not growing tired of Westbrook. Those draft picks are unprotected picks too. Huge mega deal.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:32 am 
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Bill is right: Who wouldn't tire of Westbrook. He's that guy in pickup that you NEVER want to play with because you don't see the ball. Dude is injury prone and obsessed with stats (triple doubles).

Happy for PG13 and Kawhi. Thank God they didn't go to the Lakers.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:49 am 
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pk500 wrote:
Bill is right: Who wouldn't tire of Westbrook. He's that guy in pickup that you NEVER want to play with because you don't see the ball. Dude is injury prone and obsessed with stats (triple doubles).

Happy for PG13 and Kawhi. Thank God they didn't go to the Lakers.

Yeah, Russ is a human vacuum. Little wonder KD and The Beard wanted to leave OKC. And yet there's at least one Miami Heat beat writer who hopes Miami finds a way to trade for Westbrook. Umm, please NO.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Beard didn’t want to leave until OKC tried to save some money on his contract.

Toronto lost Kawhi, got nothing.

They could have traded for PG and Westbrook and then KL would have stayed there.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:10 pm 
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wco81 wrote:
Beard didn’t want to leave until OKC tried to save some money on his contract.

Toronto lost Kawhi, got nothing.

They could have traded for PG and Westbrook and then KL would have stayed there.

Yeah I was aware of his contract situation but meant to say he would have eventually left like KD because of Westbrook. The Beard is another human vacuum cleaner like Westbrook.


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