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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2018/19
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:43 pm 
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Rodster wrote:
So the Lakers became relevant again and wow it cost them big time. The report says The Brow is heading to LA for Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart and three 1st rd picks. So this year New Orleans have the 1st and 4th picks in the draft. Just think that LA gave up on D'Angelo Russell to take Lonzo Ball.



So they just became a top-heavy team like the Warriors have been.

There's talk now that their top FA target is Kemba, which makes sense, since they've now traded away two PGs whom they drafted #2. Kemba wants that 5-year super max money but MJ may not want to part with that much, could dig into his Nike money -- he's making hundreds of millions from that, far more than his NBA salary and endorsement money when he was playing!

So the Lakers would have top-level talent but can they get ring chasers to give up a lot of money to get on the bandwagon for low salaries? Otherwise, long injuries to one of the stars would be catastrophic.

But I don't see that they have a choice, Lebron will be 35 at the end of this year, so they had to do something in case his body didn't hold up. AD has been brittle in his career and Kemba, as an undersize guard, history is not in his favor as he reaches the wrong side of 30.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:50 pm 
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Where the Lakers really screwed up was giving up their No.4 this year. That was pretty stupid. They could have added another young player to their rotation. The question becomes will this lure Kyrie Irving to play with LeBron again?


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:59 pm 
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Rodster wrote:
Where the Lakers really screwed up was giving up their No.4 this year. That was pretty stupid. They could have added another young player to their rotation. The question becomes will this lure Kyrie Irving to play with LeBron again?


They had no choice. David Griffin in New Orleans is a far more skilled operator than Rob Pelinka in LA.

New Orleans had ALL the leverage. And Golden State's injury problems and the prospect of Kawhi moving to the Clippers forced the Lakers to pay about the heftiest price possible to get AD.

Sportsbooks now list the Lakers as a 3-1 favorite to win the NBA Finals. That's an absolute joke with this lineup. I'll take whatever odds are offered for the field. :)

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:32 pm 
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pk500 wrote:
Rodster wrote:
Where the Lakers really screwed up was giving up their No.4 this year. That was pretty stupid. They could have added another young player to their rotation. The question becomes will this lure Kyrie Irving to play with LeBron again?


They had no choice. David Griffin in New Orleans is a far more skilled operator than Rob Pelinka in LA.

New Orleans had ALL the leverage. And Golden State's injury problems and the prospect of Kawhi moving to the Clippers forced the Lakers to pay about the heftiest price possible to get AD.

Sportsbooks now list the Lakers as a 3-1 favorite to win the NBA Finals. That's an absolute joke with this lineup. I'll take whatever odds are offered for the field. :)

What the LA front office should have done instead of selling the farm was to call New Orleans bluff and wait out the year on Davis and instead try and bring in Kyrie Irving. That way next year Davis could have joined them without giving all those assets away.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:42 pm 
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Lakers have always gotten the big stars from other teams -- Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Gasol who helped them win their last two championships.

Big market with Hollywood glamor. Supposedly AD has already bought a place near LA Live, which is a huge entertainment complex near Staples. All the LA sports stars have places there including Lebron.

Team only knows how to roster build with stars, not one star and a bunch of role players.

Lakers raised NBA ratings on nationally broadcast games whenever they were on this past season. So we're going to see a lot of their games next season.

With the Warriors out of it for at least the next season, NBA is not going to allow any small market team to prevent the Lakers from getting to the playoffs. Be prepared for the early 2000s Lakers again when they beat the Kings in the playoffs with a lot of officiating shenanigans.

A team like Denver is an up and coming team but now that LA has two of the top stars in the game, I don't see any team stopping them from getting to the Finals.

Only way the EC teams will compete is to keep all their free agents -- Philly, Toronto, Milwaukee.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:45 pm 
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That’s a lot to give up for the Brow...just my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:06 pm 
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Diablo25 wrote:
That’s a lot to give up for the Brow...just my opinion.


Between Lebrons age and ADs injury history it is gonna take some luck for them to get a ring. You know, like two of the top ten players in the conference going down for the year already.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Rodster wrote:
What the LA front office should have done instead of selling the farm was to call New Orleans bluff and wait out the year on Davis and instead try and bring in Kyrie Irving. That way next year Davis could have joined them without giving all those assets away.


What? LA had ZERO leverage.

Griffin and the Pels knew Pelinka and the Lakers were desperate to get AD, for two reasons. One, that's what LeBron wanted. Two, Pelinka wanted to make a big splash and appear like he's in control after Magic's very public dissing of him after Magic's departure.

If anything, the Pelicans could have called the Lakers' bluff and kept Davis until the trade deadline, seeing how their lineup would work with AD and Zion. All of the existing deals -- including the Lakers -- probably still would be there in February.

But the Lakers calling New Orleans' bluff? That's not how this works, Rod. What would Pelinka have done if Ainge swooped in with a package to bring AD to the Celtics, even if Rich Paul insisted his client wouldn't re-sign with Boston in 2020?

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:07 pm 
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wco81 wrote:
A team like Denver is an up and coming team but now that LA has two of the top stars in the game, I don't see any team stopping them from getting to the Finals.


What? Did you miss the part of the season in which LeBron missed 25 games due to injury? Have you counted the number of AD's seven seasons in which he has played at least 70 games? Two.

Last time I checked, Houston still has Harden, Capela, Chris Paul and Eric Gordon. Portland still has McCollum, Lillard and a healthy Nurkic. Denver still has all of its players. Utah still is solid. Golden State still will have Curry, Draymond and Iggy, with bench guys like Cook, Looney and McKinnie improving.

If the Clippers get Kawhi, there's a very good chance the Lakers could remain the second-best team in LA next season. The Clippers with Kawhi, Gallinari, Harrell, Lou Williams, Shamet and Beverley are better and deeper than anything the Lakers will have unless a third star is drawn to the team this summer.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:02 pm 
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pk500 wrote:
Rodster wrote:
What the LA front office should have done instead of selling the farm was to call New Orleans bluff and wait out the year on Davis and instead try and bring in Kyrie Irving. That way next year Davis could have joined them without giving all those assets away.


What? LA had ZERO leverage.

Griffin and the Pels knew Pelinka and the Lakers were desperate to get AD, for two reasons. One, that's what LeBron wanted. Two, Pelinka wanted to make a big splash and appear like he's in control after Magic's very public dissing of him after Magic's departure.

If anything, the Pelicans could have called the Lakers' bluff and kept Davis until the trade deadline, seeing how their lineup would work with AD and Zion. All of the existing deals -- including the Lakers -- probably still would be there in February.

But the Lakers calling New Orleans' bluff? That's not how this works, Rod. What would Pelinka have done if Ainge swooped in with a package to bring AD to the Celtics, even if Rich Paul insisted his client wouldn't re-sign with Boston in 2020?

Well here's what I mean by that because we're both right. I read the recent interview with Griffin and he mentioned the LeBron factor and how he always wants to be in the mix for a Championship. Griffin said he knew LA was between a rock and a hard place because when he was the GM at Cleveland, he had to deal with the LeBron factor. So he used that as leverage against LA. So from that angle you are correct.

Now what I was getting at is that they should have tried to make a better deal and not give up Kuzma which they didn't because Griffin wanted him as well and not include this years No.4 which they gave up plus two other No.1 picks which N.O. can pick and choose.

LA should have just walked away and waited the year when Davis would have been a FA and gone after Kyrie Irving who might be lured to reunite with LeBron and the following year bring in Davis. That's what I meant by calling their bluff. But the LeBron factor is too strong and Griffin knew that the Lakers were getting desperate trying to keep LeBron happy. Even Pat Riley fell for the LeBron factor when he drafted Shabazz Napier trying to keep a much younger LBJ from bolting from Miami. But that's what having LeBron James on your team makes a GM do, get desperate.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:16 pm 
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Yeah sure, injuries to key players are always a factor.

Lebron has been pretty durable though, despite all the miles he has logged. That injury last year was the longest and most games he's missed.

They have little room to fill out the rest of the roster. Either they go with minimal-contract players, guys who are barely good enough or maybe not really good enough to be in the NBA.

Or they will get ring chasers who leave a lot of money on the table they could have gotten elsewhere.

Would be surprised if the latter happens, with all these buyers in the FA market this summer.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:42 am 
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Rodster wrote:
LA should have just walked away and waited the year when Davis would have been a FA and gone after Kyrie Irving who might be lured to reunite with LeBron and the following year bring in Davis. That's what I meant by calling their bluff. But the LeBron factor is too strong and Griffin knew that the Lakers were getting desperate trying to keep LeBron happy. Even Pat Riley fell for the LeBron factor when he drafted Shabazz Napier trying to keep a much younger LBJ from bolting from Miami. But that's what having LeBron James on your team makes a GM do, get desperate.


Rod: Your theory makes no sense. You do understand that Griffin would have lost his job the second he let Davis walk away from the Pelicans without gaining any assets?

Griffin had to make a deal to trade his disgruntled superstar. He couldn't let AD walk away. Pelinka offered the farm. Griff took it.

It's really that simple.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:00 am 
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pk500 wrote:
Rodster wrote:
LA should have just walked away and waited the year when Davis would have been a FA and gone after Kyrie Irving who might be lured to reunite with LeBron and the following year bring in Davis. That's what I meant by calling their bluff. But the LeBron factor is too strong and Griffin knew that the Lakers were getting desperate trying to keep LeBron happy. Even Pat Riley fell for the LeBron factor when he drafted Shabazz Napier trying to keep a much younger LBJ from bolting from Miami. But that's what having LeBron James on your team makes a GM do, get desperate.


Rod: Your theory makes no sense. You do understand that Griffin would have lost his job the second he let Davis walk away from the Pelicans without gaining any assets?

Griffin had to make a deal to trade his disgruntled superstar. He couldn't let AD walk away. Pelinka offered the farm. Griff took it.

It's really that simple.

True, but Pelinka could have done the same knowing if Griffin let Davis walk away without anything in return he would be hung out to dry. My point is and you yourself gave the answer BOTH cats were exactly in the same boat. Each side had their nuts in a vise grip. The Lakers could have walked and waited knowing Griffin would be in hot water with a top 5 player leaving and nothing in return and Pelinka was dealing with the LeBron factor. Pelinka due to his inexperience caved and gave away the farm. Meanwhile Pelinka could have let Griffin sweat it out as the season progressed and went after Kyrie Irving instead who has shown to be more durable than Davis. Kyrie and LeBron with the Lakers supporting cast would have probably been even better and they could have used the No.4 as a young player or traded him after the draft for another good FA.

The Celtics don't have the players to make Griffin happy and Kyrie is gone.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:08 am 
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And i'll just add that Pat Riley desperately needs a star player in Miami. Here's the difference between a rookie GM and a great GM. Riley wanted Jimmy Butler BADLY. Minnesota wanted the farm (Josh Richardson, Adebayo) and was even asking for this year's draft pick. Riley walked away from the deal and Butler was traded to Philly because he knew Thibs was in trouble and had to deal Butler some way but wasn't willing to part with his young core. Both sides were desperate to make a deal but the smart GM knows when to pull back for another day.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:19 am 
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No doubt Pelinka caved. But your premise infers there would be no other suitors. Yes, Rich Paul made it very clear AD would not sign in Boston. But other teams could have swooped in with other offers for AD. David Griffin was not going to be left holding the bag.

But there was a very real chance that Pelinka wouldn't get Davis if he didn't give away the farm. Plus Griffin just kept asking for more assets, knowing a desperate, naive Pelinka would supply them.

Pelinka was FAR more desperate in this situation than Griffin. The levels of desperation aren't even close.

The Lakers MUST win the title in the next two years, or this deal is a bust for them. They mortgaged their future for Davis, and LeBron isn't getting any younger, more durable or more dialed in on defense.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:54 am 
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pk500 wrote:
No doubt Pelinka caved. But your premise infers there would be no other suitors. Yes, Rich Paul made it very clear AD would not sign in Boston. But other teams could have swooped in with other offers for AD. David Griffin was not going to be left holding the bag.

But there was a very real chance that Pelinka wouldn't get Davis if he didn't give away the farm. Plus Griffin just kept asking for more assets, knowing a desperate, naive Pelinka would supply them.

Pelinka was FAR more desperate in this situation than Griffin. The levels of desperation aren't even close.

The Lakers MUST win the title in the next two years, or this deal is a bust for them. They mortgaged their future for Davis, and LeBron isn't getting any younger, more durable or more dialed in on defense.

And that's why Pelinka gave away the farm and Griffin obliged. It's the reason why Pat Riley knew to walk away when Thibs kept asking for more and more. That's the difference between a great GM even if he's desperate like Riley was and a rookie GM who is looking to appease his star player. Griffin understood that dealing with LeBron in Cleveland but if Pelinka was a sage GM like Pat Riley, he who would have realized that Griffin was equally in a tight spot. And let's not forget that Davis and James share the same agent and Davis made it perfectly clear he wanted to play in LA. So another team siging him would know that which is why Danny Ainge took his young star players off the trade bloc with New Orleans.

I still feel giving away the No.4 pick was plain stupid because at least you can bring in a rookie and develop him because LeBron has maybe 2-3 good years left. Not only did Pelinka give away a top five pick but he's letting New Orleans pick and choose the next two Lakers picks over the next few years. Even dumber.

But then again this is the same Lakers FO that traded Russell and replaced him with Ball. Now Ball is gone.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:57 am 
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Heard Jimmy Butler would listen if Miami tried to sign him.

Not sure why Butler or Harris would want to leave Philly, unless it's a ploy to make sure the team offers max deals.

Then again in a couple of years, Simmons could bolt for LA since he's also a Klutch client. If Lakers don't win by the time Simmons hit free agency ...


As for the Lakers, they may have goofed on the timing of the trade. If they execute it on July 6, they will have only like $23 million in cap space, not the $32 million plus they were planning to have to get a max deal FA.

But supposedly NO said take the deal now or there won't be a deal later.

Will be interesting to see if they're limited to $23 million to fill out the rest of the roster. They only have 5 players signed and maybe $23 million in cap space if the reports are true.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:06 pm 
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wco81 wrote:
Heard Jimmy Butler would listen if Miami tried to sign him.

Jimmy Butler is Pat Riley's type of hard working player. Slight problem, Miami has no cap space and even with their current roster are slightly over the limit. Dragic and Whiteside are on their final year and James Johnson and Dion Waiters have 2 years left on their contracts. Miami would love to have Butler but there's no money to give him and he wants and will probably get a max deal from someone.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:54 am 
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Who are you guys hoping for in the NBA Draft? I have 2 of 3 players in mind that I hope Miami picks since they traded with the Hawks to acquire the 44th pick. So they have No. 13 and 44.

1) Kevin Porter Jr (USC) some scouts liken his game to James Harden. His problem is maturity and why teams may avoid him.

2) Rui Hachimura (Gonzaga) This kid can shoot from anywhere on the court. He'd be my 1st choice if the Heat weren't loaded at the PF spot. If he can be a hybrid who can play either the 4 or 5 spot then i'd love to see Miami take him.

3) PJ Washington (Kentucky) another big but this is who a lot of the scouts and draft-niks have Miami picking.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:02 am 
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Barrett to the Knicks. Doubt Morant will fall to No. 3.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:21 pm 
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KD may want a sign and trade, so he still gets a 5-year max deal.

Nets may not want just Kyrie, only if he comes with someone else

Meanwhile it's looking like the Lakers didn't realize the implications for their cap depending on when they execute the trade. So they're scrambling to trade away the players they have under contract and then would look to buy second round picks to fill out their roster.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:18 pm 
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wco81 wrote:
KD may want a sign and trade, so he still gets a 5-year max deal.

Nets may not want just Kyrie, only if he comes with someone else

Meanwhile it's looking like the Lakers didn't realize the implications for their cap depending on when they execute the trade. So they're scrambling to trade away the players they have under contract and then would look to buy second round picks to fill out their roster.


Heard that about KD. Interesting, but odd. Why would Golden State facilitate more money for KD if he makes it clear he wants to leave? Guilt over rushing him back too soon in Game 5?

I think the Nets are willing to sign Kyrie solo and then get a second piece. Horford is available.

Jeannie Buss and Rob Pelinka not knowing what they're is doing? Who would have thought? It takes something for a front office to make Knicks' management look competent. :) :) :)

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Yeah some sense of being sorry but also a chance to get assets back.

If he walks and signs elsewhere, they get nothing and they don't have any free cap space.

Even though it's a risk, chances are, even two years from now, they're unlikely to get anywhere near the production a 32-year old KD coming back from Achilles would produce.

If nothing else he'd be a 7-foot Klay.

They'd be still capped out after giving Klay and Draymond new contacts so they'd still be picking at the bottom of the barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:26 pm 
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wco81 wrote:
Yeah some sense of being sorry but also a chance to get assets back.

If he walks and signs elsewhere, they get nothing and they don't have any free cap space.


Duh. You're 100 percent right. That's why I'm a writer/editor and not a GM. :)

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 Post subject: Re: NBA Season 2019/20
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:50 pm 
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The one negative to the KD sign-and-trade scenario, though: Durant would have far less control over his future home.

None of the rumored destinations for Durant have the assets to make a huge trade for him. Knicks, Nets, etc. I doubt Durant would command as much as AD in a trade because of his Achilles injury and age, but the haul would be close.

What team where Durant wants to play has those kinds of assets to provide to Golden State in a trade?

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