Madden 17

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fletcher21
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Re: Madden 17

Post by fletcher21 »

Started a new franchise with the jags. Pretty solid team to use, despite the low rating. I've never had such success in my life on Madden. I broke the single game receiving record with Allen Robinson. Something like 332 yards and 3 or 4 td. Each one was 50+ yard play action pass. Arob was +44 release, so it was almost unfair. I probably could have gotten 500 yards from him alone if I kept feeding him. Almost makes me think it's cheesing. The CPU almost never goes for a long pass, no matter the team. Final score was Jax 72, Indy 27. Default all pro, slow speed. Only change was turning defensive pass int to 60, up from default 50. CPU is crap. I get KILLED online against real people, but I you with the AI. Sad, really.

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Re: Madden 17

Post by Wilk5280 »

You put up 72 points and it ALMOST makes you think it's cheesing?
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Re: Madden 17

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Wilk5280 wrote:You put up 72 points and it ALMOST makes you think it's cheesing?
It was a freak occurrence. The next game I beat Chicago 21-17. I can't describe what happened. 72 is an obscene amount of points. Playing how I do I dominate the CPU, but get wrecked online. Proof that the AI is lagging badly behind a real player. Sad, really.

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Re: Madden 17

Post by TCrouch »

The proof is that once you find a concept that the AI can't defend, and exploit it, it will continue to work. Humans are much smarter about adjusting defenses and hot routing coverages, whereas the AI never does. It tries to combat what you're doing with a vanilla play call. If you hit a flood concept and they're going 3 deep, you're going to tear them a new one every time. If you play a human, they're going to audible to over-top coverage and take that flood away. Apples and oranges, but if you don't just hammer the flood, it doesn't work like that.

Also depends on the talent on the field, and injuries. A sh*t nickel corner can get lit up. If the CPU went man/blitz a bunch, you'll end up with big plays. The Chiefs are a big man/blitz team, so catches behind a corner with a single high safety will break big. Chicago is a big zone team, so you're not going to get the same big chunks.

Only reason you had so much success is the PA cross is pretty tough to stop, especially in man where it freezes defenders for a second. And Robinson for the Jags is a top-5 WR in Madden, even against somebody like Marcus Peters. If you have +44 release and the Chiefs pressed, that was more personnel and coaching than busted AI.

It comes off like I'm trying to defend the game, when there are issues there. It should be smarter, but what you did to the Chiefs is a textbook on how to beat that defense. The Bears, conversely, turtle up and keep everything in front of their sh*tty secondary, and it tends to work if you can't exploit them with corners or seam routes when you get a cover 2/single high look, respectively.

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Re: Madden 17

Post by Danimal »

fletcher21 wrote:
Wilk5280 wrote:You put up 72 points and it ALMOST makes you think it's cheesing?
It was a freak occurrence. The next game I beat Chicago 21-17. I can't describe what happened. 72 is an obscene amount of points. Playing how I do I dominate the CPU, but get wrecked online. Proof that the AI is lagging badly behind a real player. Sad, really.
You get wrecked online because you play Madden by exploiting the game. Any good player would shut down the one play you run to exploit the AI online. If you don't have a counter for what people do and rely on a handful of plays that work against the AI what do you expect.

Complaining about the AI of a game you actively exploit is silly.
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Re: Madden 17

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Danimal wrote:
fletcher21 wrote:
Wilk5280 wrote:You put up 72 points and it ALMOST makes you think it's cheesing?
It was a freak occurrence. The next game I beat Chicago 21-17. I can't describe what happened. 72 is an obscene amount of points. Playing how I do I dominate the CPU, but get wrecked online. Proof that the AI is lagging badly behind a real player. Sad, really.
You get wrecked online because you play Madden by exploiting the game. Any good player would shut down the one play you run to exploit the AI online. If you don't have a counter for what people do and rely on a handful of plays that work against the AI what do you expect.

Complaining about the AI of a game you actively exploit is silly.
It's not like I go to only a few cheese plays. A dominant wr is ALWAYS open in Madden. I stopped even using play action since it's a damn near 100% success. Take Allen Robinson. He is so quick off the line, no one can stop him. If i take the long bomb out, he can still destroy a defense on slants, screens or fades. The running game is the most realistic part for me. Last game I ran for 95 yards on 27 carries with Ivory. Completely believable.

As for online, I can put up points with the best of them, but defense is where I am lacking. I don't understand the intricacy of all the formations. If it's 3rd and 9, i don't know which defense is best to call. I blitz a ton, and I get burned on run plays where once they break thru the line I have no one back there. I need to practice up next year and actually learn to play the game. I'm a big football fan, but I don't really understand the x and O's and why you use which formation when.

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Re: Madden 17

Post by Danimal »

Did you run through all the tutorials? I learned this the hard way, but there are some really good advance tutorials that would help with that.
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Re: Madden 17

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Danimal wrote:Did you run through all the tutorials? I learned this the hard way, but there are some really good advance tutorials that would help with that.
I probably should do that, yeah. The long pass is broken in this game. The announced will even say "and the defense is in press coverage". If the defense is in cover 1 or obviously blitzing, that's pretty much a guaranteed td to your best outside wr. Using your top wr shouldn't feel like cheating. I try to start throwing to different wr, and end up getting picked off or in 3rd and long. The running game is the most enjoyable by a mile. I've noticed that if you abuse the rb screen, this is one area the AI will absolutely make adjustments and completely shut that down. Why they play so much press coverage in cover 1 is beyond me.

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Re: Madden 17

Post by TCrouch »

Yeah, defensively there's no one-size-fits-all answer for those 3rd and longs. I'm above average at Madden, and I am still rolling the dice every series. If a team is really balanced, and might trot out 3WR and then run it--I'm certainly not going quarters and playing prevent trying to stop a pass play 100%.

I might even send out a 3-4 formation so that I'm playing both, but my OLBs are decent in coverage, and fast to rush the passer. Or you throw in a zone blitz and send a corner in and hope the other player doesn't see it coming.

Really, it's about assessing the formation and the threat they have, with the tendencies they've shown. Most players that I run into online really have a bread and butter, and when you take that away....what next? When you can poke and prod and find something else that works, you can have success. But anybody who's locked into a particular type of play or pattern of calls based on down and distance is likely going to start out OK, and then the noose will start tightening until they're pressing, and if they throw the same type of route more than twice---the wheels will come off as the turnovers start happening. That's when games turn against humans.

But against the AI? They'll go into hyper drive sometimes, and they'll pick up on YOUR tendencies to call defenses. So as I see that occurring, I'll have to start calling some bizarre defenses that I think will never work. And suddenly, I'm hitting the QB, forcing fumbles, and winning games at the end.

And seriously--USE RUN/PASS COUNTERS online, if you don't know what to call. They work. If you are getting torn up deep outside, go into pass counter, deep outside, and pick a play. It does the hard stuff for you.

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Re: Madden 17

Post by fletcher21 »

Appreciate the help, guys. So what do you guys think of the passing game in general? It just seems like the long ball is broken. Allen Robinson can take a bomb play action or a quick slant for a TD. Is it overpowered to use someone like him? I remember a few years back using Megatron and it was like bo Jackson on techmo. Complete dominance. I started off with a Vikings franchise and diggs led the nfl in TDs and yards. In real life he's dynamic, but the game has him rated very low. I didn't even use the play action exploit then, I just threw normal routes and he took them the distance. It's too late in the current game, but next year I think I'll okay exclusively online. I'll take my lumps from players like Terry until I figure it out. I shouldn't be able to make the Jaguars a top 3 team in the nfl on all pro. Taking away the deep pass makes the game boring. I may be exploiting it, but I don't know. I've definitely had a lot of fun, and Madden has a strong foundation. Defense and running seem good, although I was able to control a guy named Marks (never heard of him in real life) and sack cutler 5 times in 1 game. Pass rush is feast or famine for me.

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Re: Madden 17

Post by TCrouch »

Sen'Derrick Marks is no slouch, and if you do the "timing button presses" right, sacks can come in bunches. But again, it depends on who you're facing. Talent matters. You used a good player against maybe the worst offensive line in the league. Of course that's going to be a mismatch, based purely on talent.

The long ball isn't broken, it's all based on matchups. The Jags had massive press as an "up and coming team" leading into the season. They were rated highly, and Bortles has a cannon. They don't give negative ratings for mechanics, so you combine a rocket-armed QB with a top-5 WR and of course it's going to seem easy.

If you go into a game looking to chuck the ball down the field, and you have the matchups, you're going to get yards. I don't play that way, so I don't know. I look to be "efficient". 4 to 5 yards on first down, if at all possible. Whatever I do gain, half the yardage remaining on 2nd down, and the rest on 3rd. If I stay that way, I'll control a game and not be so suspect on defense, as they'll be rested and explosive all game long. When I try to throw the rock all over the park, I have more 3 and outs, but more big plays. Sure, I score, but my defense is still sucking wind from the last time out there.

Everything works as complimentary football. You have to play offense to help your defense, not just chuck bombs and pray on D, or a good player will pick you apart eventually. You can play bend-but-don't break defense, but at some point you have to take a risk and apply pressure, or you're going to give up long drives for scores.

Football is the ultimate chess match in a video game...you can't just "git gud". You have to put in the time and really invest the practice hours to learn tendencies, learn personnel, learn matchups mid-game, and adjust. Otherwise you'll always be good at whatever your bread and butter is, and wonder why the "other stuff" is broken/never works/is horrible AI, etc. etc.

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Re: Madden 17

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Good reply. I don't play every game like I'm down by 14 with 6 minutes left. I try to run a balanced offense. I run probably 45% of the time. I love hitting the tight end because they're almost always a solid matchup. I just don't understand defensive play calling, so I blitz a ton and hope lol. I get almost no interceptions. I get a few fumble recovery's, but it just seems the CPU is so careful they rarely try to throw into a bad situation. I'm also a pretty dominant kicker, although the wind is WAY over powered, especially punting.

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Re: Madden 17

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Blitzing a ton means you're leaving a void on the field somewhere. Against a high AWR CPU QB, they're going to pick that apart. That's where you can't "blitz a ton", but pick your places. I have a lot more success (held CPU Tom Brady to like 10 points in a playoff win just this past league season) by varying the playcalls, but also FAKING the blitz (Y + right on the D-pad, I think it is. I do it instinctively, I haven't really thought about the mechanics in a while). That moves the guys to the line and doesn't give the CPU QB a read on the D. If you manually control an ILB and hold your water (don't chase guys crossing your face, KNOW YOUR RESPONSIBILITY in the context of the coverage scheme), then you can force coverage sacks or maybe interceptions when you take away an easy checkdown throw.

They'll make some throws that are comical doing that. The CPU follows the same progressions that they teach you in the tutorial, so disguising blitzes or faking them leads them to make progressions you can predict, and exploit. But again, nothing to do but practice and learn them.

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Re: Madden 17

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Terry, you are an elite football mind

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Re: Madden 17

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I love madden 17, buT I couldn't find a competitive balance. I was 10 and 0 in a jags franchise on all pro default. That's not realistic.

I went to operation sports and found some realistic slidEra for all pro. I started a steelers franchise and its been fantastic! I started 2-0 so far, but both games have been close. I beat cincyou 27-24. They missed a fg to tie it with 30 seconds left. I gave up 140 yards rushing to Bernard, before I injured him lol. On my default jags franchise I probably gave up 50 yards rushing or less most games.

One of the biggest things is I took heat seaker off. I didn't realize how much I depended on that. I've missed several tackles that led to huge gains. On one play I rushed Dalton and had him dead to rights. He stepped to the side or me and without heaT seaker I ran right past him. He scrambled and found aj green for a 50 yard bomb. It was awesome and maddening at the same time. Bell is one of the best backs in the game, but these sliders make running hard. I finished last game with 124 yards on 30 carries. Sooner or later he will go down with an injury with this usage.

Madden is back for me!

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Re: Madden 17

Post by TCrouch »

Yeah, I played with everything off for a while, but gave up play after play as I realized my old man reflexes are not what they once were.

I re-enabled everything and just win with strategy more than stick skills at this point. I don't hot route, I don't do much other than try to disguise coverages against the CPU. Against humans I can force some turnovers and make them do stupid sh*t, but I still struggle against the CPU frequently.

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Re: Madden 17

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TCrouch wrote:Yeah, I played with everything off for a while, but gave up play after play as I realized my old man reflexes are not what they once were.

I re-enabled everything and just win with strategy more than stick skills at this point. I don't hot route, I don't do much other than try to disguise coverages against the CPU. Against humans I can force some turnovers and make them do stupid sh*t, but I still struggle against the CPU frequently.
Opposite for me as a real person exposes me but I can hammer the ai. Madden 18 could be the game of our lifetime with the backbone they have in place. If they can fix line play and maybe some tweaks to the long ball I'll be happy as hell.

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Re: Madden 17

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fletcher21 wrote:
I went to operation sports and found some realistic slidEra for all pro.

Madden is back for me!
What is the slider set called on OS ?

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Re: Madden 17

Post by fletcher21 »

Lancer wrote:
fletcher21 wrote:
I went to operation sports and found some realistic slidEra for all pro.

Madden is back for me!
What is the slider set called on OS ?
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/m ... -17-a.html

This guy has like 8 different slider sets based on what works for you. I'm using the blue set he calls it. So far so good, this is the best madden I've ever played thanks to these! I realized for me Pittsburgh is too good. Started a Dallas franchise and actually lost my first game, which is crazy since I usually dominate the ai.

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Re: Madden 17

Post by Brando70 »

Made it to season 2 of my Bears franchise and still enjoying the game -- this is definitely the most I've liked Madden since our first online franchise league. I actually saw Aaron Rodgers get flagged for throwing past the line of scrimmage, as well as the occasional defensive holding and even PI. I drafted a rookie QB in the second round who has turned out to be a really good player, with a great mix of mobility and accuracy.

There are still a lot of things I wish they could improve (offensive line injuries being near the top), but the on-field play is holding up for me long past the time I have gotten tired of Madden games in recent years.

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Re: Madden 17

Post by 10spro »

Hey Mr MUT guy, aka XXXIV. There's a special digital SB edition for only $20 green ones. So what I did today was to sell my hard copy for $25 and I bought the digital version. I know that you don't buy the packs but hey for that price, why not?

Keep grinding it out...

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Re: Madden 17

Post by Sudz »

didn't they add this to the EA Access Vault during Super Bowl week last year? I sold off my copy in anticipation.

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Re: Madden 17

Post by pk500 »

Sudz wrote:didn't they add this to the EA Access Vault during Super Bowl week last year? I sold off my copy in anticipation.
Yes, EA did. EA issued a statement last week that Madden 17 would be one of a few titles it would add soon to EA Access, including Skate 3. But no dates were released.
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Re: Madden 17

Post by greggsand »

I don't really play much Madden these days, but I did a "CPU vs CPU" Super Bowl sim the other day for the hell of it. It was surprisingly entertaining to watch. Def made the 90 min conf call I was on fly by. BTW, Atlanta won 15 to 14.
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Re: Madden 17

Post by XXXIV »

Yeah I have been addicted to MUT this year .

Wouldn't have had happened if my biggest problem with madden had not been solved? Maybe solved?

Finally?! After 25 plus f***in years when I throw an INT , I know I threw an INT. I now feel responsible for my poor pass and not cheated by an AI programmed by some clue less f*** who has never watched an NFL game in his pathetic Ea serf life.

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