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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:52 pm 
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I'm contemplating the purchase of a Logitech G920 wheel for my XB1 and PC. The Forza 6 demo has forced me to realize how bad I suck with a controller in racing games, and how much more I would appreciate this game with a quality, force-feedback steering wheel. I have a Fanatec Porsche GT2 wheel that works great with the XBox 360, PS3, and PC, but my efforts to use controller adapters to use it with the XB1 and PS4 have yielded very disappointing results.

The G920 won't be available in North America until October 15th, but it's on the market in Australia. The two reviews I've read of it so far from buyers have been mostly good. What I can't gather about it is how much of an annoyance the helical gear clicking and clanking might be with it. Do any of you have experience with the G27 and/or G29, which also has helical gears? Is it loud enough to be an annoyance?

One other item that raises a question about the G920 (and the G29 for the PS4) is that the literature for it says its "compatible with select PC titles". I thought a wheel was either compatible with the PC, or it wasn't, through Windows. Does the game manufacturer have to do something special with the PC version of a racing game to make it compatible with Logitech wheels?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Just get a Thrustmaster TX. Best 250 bucks I ever spent. Significantly cheaper than the 400 bucks you'll spend on the 920.

And I'm pretty sure the game has to support the wheel, for mapping purposes. I'm sure all of the major titles will support nearly all of the more popular wheels and if it's made by Logitech, it'll be supported for sure.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:18 pm 
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dbdynsty25 wrote:
Just get a Thrustmaster TX. Best 250 bucks I ever spent. Significantly cheaper than the 400 bucks you'll spend on the 920.

And I'm pretty sure the game has to support the wheel, for mapping purposes. I'm sure all of the major titles will support nearly all of the more popular wheels and if it's made by Logitech, it'll be supported for sure.


It's my other option right now and I like the fact that it's belt driven. I was also considering buying the Thrustmater TX Racing Wheel Servo Base, and pairing it with the 599XX EVO 30 Wheel Add-On Alcantara Edition, and using my Fanatec Club Sport Elite pedals (via a Basherboard CPX Adapter) with it. The total cost of that package would be $20 more than the Logitech G920.

My only reservation about the Thrustmaster rig is the less than stellar reliability it seems to have. I read more complaints about equipment failure with it than any other. OTOH, it seems like you either have trouble with Thrustmaster wheels early on, or you don't have it at all.

You picked your wheel up for $250? That's a deal... the lowest price I can find currently is $299.95 at Amazon, but the thinking is that Thrustmaster might be phasing the complete TX out, in favor of this new "EcoSystem" (buy the base and customize) model they're trotting out. The new "base" was supposed to be on the market in August, but it's still not available yet.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:00 pm 
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J_Cauthen wrote:
You picked your wheel up for $250? That's a deal... the lowest price I can find currently is $299.95 at Amazon, but the thinking is that Thrustmaster might be phasing the complete TX out, in favor of this new "EcoSystem" (buy the base and customize) model they're trotting out. The new "base" was supposed to be on the market in August, but it's still not available yet.


Yeah I got mine on sale at Fry's right as Project Cars was coming out. I read all of the reliability stuff, and frankly that stuff doesn't bother me all that much as a vast vast majority of consumer products has some reliability issues and as long as you're not buying first manufacturing run, they likely iron most of those issues out. So I think you'll be fine if you want to save a few bucks over the G920. I just don't think it's going to be 100 bucks better. But we'll see when it's released.

And yeah, the TX ecosystem stuff is cool. I can still add the better pedals and the shifter to mine, so I'll likely end up doing that shortly.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:15 pm 
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My TX Wheel died, for what it's worth. I have the PS4 version too (I forget what it's called. T300 or something) and the shifter and pedals that all work together, but the TX Wheel cable is fritzed or something. It will randomly disconnect if it moves the slightest bit.

So the durability issue is legit.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:20 pm 
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TCrouch wrote:
My TX Wheel died, for what it's worth. I have the PS4 version too (I forget what it's called. T300 or something) and the shifter and pedals that all work together, but the TX Wheel cable is fritzed or something. It will randomly disconnect if it moves the slightest bit.

So the durability issue is legit.


For you, yeah it's legit. I also know people that have had 3 or 4 iPhones before they found a flawless one. No one would say they are unreliable would they? Plus, the PS4 version is not the Xbox/PC version...soooo, different model.

My point is, every product has failures, EVERY ONE. Not saying anything that anyone doesn't know already. Mine is fine and has worked fine for the 4 months I've had it. That doesn't mean ALL of them are perfect.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:29 pm 
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Wasn't disagreeing. Just saying that I've had several Thrustmaster products, and everything from Firmware to Driver Installation/Support has been sketchy on Windows and XBox. Then when the TX wheel sh*t the bed, it was just more dissatisfaction from me, and I've owned pretty much everything they ever put out.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:19 pm 
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I've never owned a Thrustmaster wheel. But I owned a Logitech DFP and Logitech G27 when I was in my PC sim racing phase, and both wheels were bulletproof. Superb peripherals.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:47 pm 
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I bought the Thrustmaster Spider 458 last week. For under $100, I absolutely love it! No force feedback, but who cares. Heck of a lot more fun than using a controller. Just got the Wheel Stand Pro V2 in the mail today. Easy set up and that thing is also amazing. Easy to stow away and set up.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:11 pm 
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pk500 wrote:
I've never owned a Thrustmaster wheel. But I owned a Logitech DFP and Logitech G27 when I was in my PC sim racing phase, and both wheels were bulletproof. Superb peripherals.


Yup. I had a Driving Force for 6 years before upgrading to a G25 I'm still using 7 years down the road. Both wheels have been absolutely faultless through prolonged heavy use.

To very nearly address John's question, my G25 has straight gears and they're not silent by any means but with the in-game audio set to a sensible, non-offensive volume, I'm only aware of any intrusive gear noise from my wheel when I'm flailing around mid-spin in the manner of someone wrestling an octopus. The G27, with the helical gears, is known to be much quieter than the G25 (or, to put it another way, quieter than something that I don't find especially loud to start with), so I can't imagine the G920 being too hard to live with in that respect. The asking price reminds me that at least Dick Turpin wore a mask but you're pretty much assured of quality and durability.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:10 pm 
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G27 does have a bit of noise. Of course the wheel behavior depends a ton on how well the programmers did with the FFB. Some games are clearly better than others, and part of the way that's manifested is how much those gears chatter away.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:59 pm 
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Thanks for all the input on this everyone. I've never owned a Logitech wheel, but these reliability reports on the DFP, The G25, and G27 are quite impressive. My biggest concern with the G920, as stated earlier, is the "clacking" of the helical gears. Based on what you guys are telling me, it's probably at a level I could handle, particularly at the audio levels I use when playing racing games.

In a review of the G920's sister wheel on the PS4, ISR's Darin Gangi had a segment in his video review where he let the viewers hear the activity of the helical gears of the G29. At 17:30 into this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6fJnvNYohQ

You can hear the clacking clearly, although I think he probably has the mic gain up a bit more than normal to pick it up. Maybe some of you with G27's can comment on how this sounds compared to what you hear?

The second area of concern I have in regard to the G920 and Forza 6 though has been the "weak FFB" and 30 degree force-feedback deadzone that I've read from early owners of the wheel in Australia and New Zealand. I then saw this video from Inside Sim Racing, in which John Sabol takes a Lotus F1 for a lap around the "Ring" against "Unbeatable" Drivatars, using a Logitech G920.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWyHtbp6c0

As you can see, he manages quite well with this wheel, despite having some tire spin problems. John Sabol attributes this to the relatively low resolution of the Logitech G920's pedals. I don't imagine this wouldn't be as big a problem in cars that aren't as throttle dependent as an F1 car though. The pedal construction looks nice for this outfit, but I've read no reports on their resolution compared to Thrustmater's premium pedal set, nor even the Fanatec Club Sport Elite pedals I now own.

I guess I can fend with a controller until I get more data on my options here, but right now, neither of my options is truly available to me anyway... the Thrustmaster TX base unit isn't for sale yet, and the Logitech G920 won't be an option until October 14th.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:47 am 
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J_Cauthen wrote:
In a review of the G920's sister wheel on the PS4, ISR's Darin Gangi had a segment in his video review where he let the viewers hear the activity of the helical gears of the G29. At 17:30 into this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6fJnvNYohQ

You can hear the clacking clearly, although I think he probably has the mic gain up a bit more than normal to pick it up. Maybe some of you with G27's can comment on how this sounds compared to what you hear?

Those sounds are a bit more muted than the G27, but they are certainly in family with the G27 sounds.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:09 am 
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I have a Logitech G27 and the Thrustmaster TX. I have mostly used the TX for Xbox One and the G27 for PC. I like them both, but honestly after about a year of use, I think I like the force feedback feel in the TX better than the G27. The G27 pedals are better, especially if you want a clutch, but the TX pedals are not terrible. For the price I got for the TX (thanks Mix!), it was definitely a good deal.

It's only been a few hours of play so far, but Forza 6 with the TX Wheel may be the best force feedback I have ever felt out of the box on a console game, ever. Maybe even better than anything I have experienced on PC. I did not even need to do any tweaking. The feedback it gives is amazing. You feel it when are too hard on the brakes. You feel it when shifting gears, especially if you screw up the clutch. You feel it go light when you hydroplane over a puddle or crest the hill at Lime Rock and get a little airborne. You feel it in different track surfaces and curbs, and they don't all feel the same. Each car has different FF feel as well. Driving the Hellcat around Road Atlanta was a completely different force feedback feel than say driving the Indycar. The Hellcat wanted to jump out of my hands. This is force feedback wheel implementation as it should be. I have not even tweaked a thing, just the default settings with the most updated firmware for the TX Wheel. Amazing job Turn 10 has done there so far!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:24 pm 
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I loved the performance of the TX wheel. Still feels like the best wheel I've used (the T300 is obviously the same).

But I forgot to mention, my T3PA pedals ALSO are defective---they don't register anything at all anymore, so that's 2 out of my 4 Thrustmaster products that died relatively early. That's the main source of my initial "legit" comment, Scott.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:34 pm 
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F308GTB wrote:
Those sounds are a bit more muted than the G27, but they are certainly in family with the G27 sounds.


So you wouldn't be concerned about what you're hearing out of the G920?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:49 pm 
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DChaps wrote:
I have a Logitech G27 and the Thrustmaster TX. I have mostly used the TX for Xbox One and the G27 for PC. I like them both, but honestly after about a year of use, I think I like the force feedback feel in the TX better than the G27. The G27 pedals are better, especially if you want a clutch, but the TX pedals are not terrible. For the price I got for the TX (thanks Mix!), it was definitely a good deal.


Don, are you satisfied with the feel and the quality of construction of the Thrustmaster's stock steering wheel? Something about it "looks" cheap... not sure it would feel cheap though. If it's up to the task, I would forego my plan to buy the base unit ($260) and 599XX EVO 30 Wheel Add-On Alcantara ($109), and just go with the Thrustmaster TX complete package ($300).

If I go Thrustmaster (either approach), I'm going to go with my Fanatec ClubSport Elite pedals, which are fully compatible with the Thrustamaster, via the Basherboard CPX adapter ($48).

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It's only been a few hours of play so far, but Forza 6 with the TX Wheel may be the best force feedback I have ever felt out of the box on a console game, ever. Maybe even better than anything I have experienced on PC. I did not even need to do any tweaking. The feedback it gives is amazing. You feel it when are too hard on the brakes. You feel it when shifting gears, especially if you screw up the clutch. You feel it go light when you hydroplane over a puddle or crest the hill at Lime Rock and get a little airborne. You feel it in different track surfaces and curbs, and they don't all feel the same. Each car has different FF feel as well. Driving the Hellcat around Road Atlanta was a completely different force feedback feel than say driving the Indycar. The Hellcat wanted to jump out of my hands. This is force feedback wheel implementation as it should be. I have not even tweaked a thing, just the default settings with the most updated firmware for the TX Wheel. Amazing job Turn 10 has done there so far!


It's hard to discount this report... I know you know what you're talking about. I'm reading mixed reports about the Thrustmaster on the Forza Motorsports forum, but it seems like they're all complaining about the way they're working with the demo. There are two Thrustmaster reports there that echo what you've said above, and they make it clear they're talking about the release version of Forza 6.

I'm going to be watching a Logitech G920 owner stream his experience with Forza 6 today at 3:00 PM EDT. I might pick up something there to help make a decision. I have heard that the G920's performance is horrid with PC racing games at this time, outside of F1 2015 and Euro Truck Simulator.
Here's a link if anyone is interested: http://www.twitch.tv/propete10


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:52 pm 
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TCrouch wrote:
I loved the performance of the TX wheel. Still feels like the best wheel I've used (the T300 is obviously the same).

But I forgot to mention, my T3PA pedals ALSO are defective---they don't register anything at all anymore, so that's 2 out of my 4 Thrustmaster products that died relatively early. That's the main source of my initial "legit" comment, Scott.


Terry, do you know if it's the cable between your base and pedals, or the pedals themselves? How long did you have your original TX wheel before it failed and you had to get a replacement? Was the replacement process painful? I've read mixed reviews of their customer support also.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:19 pm 
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The wheel will be 2 years old in December, and it's been fritzing for the past 6 months. Didn't get it replaced.

Pedals were brand new--just got them a few months ago. They worked--then suddenly, they don't. Cable looks fine, wasn't crimped or pinched or anything. They just suddenly don't register anything in either the TX wheel or the T300, on XBox One, PC, or PS4.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:02 pm 
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TCrouch wrote:
The wheel will be 2 years old in December, and it's been fritzing for the past 6 months. Didn't get it replaced.

Pedals were brand new--just got them a few months ago. They worked--then suddenly, they don't. Cable looks fine, wasn't crimped or pinched or anything. They just suddenly don't register anything in either the TX wheel or the T300, on XBox One, PC, or PS4.


Yeeesh.... it sounds like the Thrustmaster offers what I'm after when it's working correctly, but there's a roll of the dice I'm not sure I'd want to take involved. The only difference between your and my situation is that I'd only have one "active" Thrustmaster component to potentially fail, and that would be the base itself. I've got some more studying to do, but I truly value your input on this!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:14 pm 
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The problem for me is that it's SO good when it's working, that I am probably just going to buy another one any day now to race Forza with. I didn't know about that adapter to make my CSR Elites work, so I may get one of those (although it looks like it has a 1 to 2 month wait?? sheesh). The TX wheel with load cell brake pedals would be bad ass.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:28 pm 
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TCrouch wrote:
The problem for me is that it's SO good when it's working, that I am probably just going to buy another one any day now to race Forza with. I didn't know about that adapter to make my CSR Elites work, so I may get one of those (although it looks like it has a 1 to 2 month wait?? sheesh). The TX wheel with load cell brake pedals would be bad ass.


Yeah, the 1 to 2 month wait on the CPX adapter is a kink for me, but it's been like that since they hit the market two years ago. It's a small operation that grew way beyond what it's founder set out to do. I remember when he was designing the board and had a working prototype. He had some others on the Forza forum ask him about making one for them, and the next thing you know, he's churning them out and shipping them all over the world! The feedback is overwhelmingly positive on what he now calls the CPX.

If I decide to go the base/599XX EVO 30 Wheel Add-On Alcantara/CSR Elite route, I don't know how long I'll have to wait for the TX Base to become available. I could be waiting for the CPX and the TX Base during the same period of time.

I know Darin Gangi at Inside Sim Racing is big on the Thrustmaster, and I've never heard him speak too much on the reliability issues associated with it... then again, he won't deny that they exist.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:45 pm 
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Mine was pretty early in the release run, too (I can hear Scott saying "I told you this!" now). Maybe the later ones are more reliable. But the pedals I just got at the end of April, and those were dead by June. My CSR Elites are still my favorite pedals that I have, but those are on a shelf with the inability to use them with anything except the CSR Elite wheel itself, on the same shelf.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:20 pm 
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I watched a Twitch stream of a guy in the UK run some laps in a Lotus 49 around Brands Hatch in the rain with the Logitech G920. He answered all of my questions with demonstrations that curbed all of my concerns about this rig. I could tell he was genuinely enamored with the Lotus 49 and the way it felt with the wheel, you could see it in his face :) He didn't have to change anything in the default setup of the wheel in the Forza Options screen and said it felt great! I never once heard any "clacking" while he was racing. He turned the sound down and just turned the wheel so I could hear it, and it was more muffled than I expected it would sound.

I think I'm closer to making a decision now though 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:22 pm 
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I know I'm buying one in October. I keep telling myself I won't, but I know I will.


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