Tiger Woods 14 thread, part II

[Jared]

Enjoy.

[J_Cauthen]

Thanks Jared for getting a new thread started on this. There was a new press release from EA Sports on Tiger Woods 14 today, but it probably didn't cover anything of interest to most of us here; it gave more details on the Historic Augusta National course and what else it would entail. I know there's a lot more to come with this that will be of interest to hardcore gamers, like most of us here, but we have to patiently bide our time while this superficial mass-market stuff takes the spotlight.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tiger-woo ... IAPmf_wgt.

I think we're going to get a bit more life in the County Club play this year. I'm hoping that we'll be able to launch and play head-to-head Live Tournament and match play competitions from the exclusivity of our own club's lobby this year, but it's already pretty clear that we'll at least get real time, hole-by-hole scoring updates and even shot-tracer telemetry of club-members playing their rounds concurrently with you.

This bullet from last weeks press release spells it out to some detail:

A new online experience allows you to play with up to 24 competitors at a time while an all-new dynamic stat tracking system feeds live data from the entire tournament field and makes you feel as if you’re in the mix of a real event.

This new dynamic, stat tracking system will apply to Country Club Live Tournaments, from what I gathered from the official Tiger Woods 14 thread at the EA website before the thread disappeared. One of EA Sports' marketing execs has made a comment that gives me hope that head-to-head play will be a possibility in Country Club launched events at the official website as well. Who knows how long it will be before questions as specific as the ones we have are answered though?

I'm excited for the potential that the new camera controls will offer. Here's a bullet from the EA UK website that didn't get published domestically:

Hello Friends – Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 14 has significantly upgraded the presentation elements as there are new tournament introductions, additional broadcast cameras, live updated stats throughout the round and much more! With the addition of over 3,000 camera shots, players will experience a tournament-like broadcast each and every time they tee off.

I had grown so tired of the follow-cam presentation that Live Tournament play forced me to use. I'm hoping that there will be an option to tailor the presentation options for something more player perspective oriented. The presentation camera options for the last three years have been way too "jumpy" for my tastes. I want to savor the shot from my golfer's perspective longer before being transferred to another camera view, but I do want to be transferred to a downrange camera to watch the ball reach its destination.

Lots to come on the gameplay and interface front from what I'm gathering. I hope the full swing isn't a "twitch" dependent as Tiger 13's.

[10spro]

John, the H2H match ups towards the end of TW 13 got positive feedback from what I recall among us in the CC and the live scores will be indeed a big +.

[Leadfoot5]

John, the H2H match ups towards the end of TW 13 got positive feedback from what I recall among us in the CC and the live scores will be indeed a big +.

Agreed, this is sounding good...

[J_Cauthen]

John, the H2H match ups towards the end of TW 13 got positive feedback from what I recall among us in the CC and the live scores will be indeed a big +.

Yes they did James. I think the game will have more success at a country club level if they've built this one to where we can gather, chat (text and voice), and launch multiplayer/simultaneous Club Live Tournament and Club match play events from our own Country Club lobby. They've already said there will be a club "chat" feature for this year's game, whatever that will include. They've also expanded the club size to 100 members, so that would alleviate some of the early start-up problems we had with that last year.

I just hope they've brought some personality that Tiger Woods 10 had back into the game. I've been playing it heavily for the last two weeks. It just has an intangible quality about it that makes it feel less sterile than Tiger 13. Its presentation camera was the closest to the presentation style I prefer, although I like Tiger 13's head/shoulder high swing camera better than the waist high swing camera that Tiger 10 used. I know the follow-cam presentation to which Live Tournament play in Tiger 13 was bound wore out its welcome with me. I think we're getting a much more dynamic, competitive game this year and I hope the swing interface is going to be more about rhythm and less about twitch reaction for full power shots. If Tiger 13 had required the same rhythm component that Tiger 10 requires, it would have felt more natural, IMO.

[Naples39]

I would really like to see a camera that is like playing real-golf, but enhanced. ie; you watch the ball sail off into the distance, but maybe add ball-trail or allow the camera to rise off the ground simply for ease of tracking.

I'm tired of the ball cam, and that cam in TW 13 that just showed the ball in the the sky with no context was pretty terrible.

More or less the first camera shown in this Perfect Parallel Golf video;

[Danimal]

Perhaps I am reading it wrong but it seems to me the live scores will only work with a single tournament with 24 active participants at the same time. I find that a lofty goal considering we couldn't get more than 15 people to play in an event last year on their own schedules.

[Wilk5280]

Well, I certainly get having to all be playing at the same time for live scoring. That pretty much matches with real life. Players who tee off in the afternoon will know the scores of those who have already completed their rounds and are back in the clubhouse. Unless I'm missing something here, that's how I'm envisioning this working. In that, if more than one player are playing at the same time for a round of the weekly, or even the daily, that the scores will update as they complete each hole (vice waiting until the round is complete and then posting it like last year).

I'm perfectly fine with that, if it does in fact work that way.

[Aristo]

I thought last year's CC was a great start, and I am interested to see if they improved it without messing up what was good abut it. It did seem to suffer from the lack of polish and features a modern multiplayer mode should have n the same way Madden's and NHL's Connected modes did.

I think Danimal's point is important, as it is a sign that they don't completely get how their customers actually use their products. Live scoring is neat, but mostly irrelevant.

I would still like to see an improvement in the True Aim, which would really just be making it like TW 11. If that was included with last years new swing mechanics, they would not only get my money day one, but I'd buy a all of their courses.

I spent a decent amount of time in last year's game, but lost interest when it was clear that all my progression was doing was making the game too easy. That made it a single player game with essentially no real value in building up a golfer. And that would have been much more tolerable if you could play a season as a Pro and each Pro was actually significantly differentiable from each other.

But I mostly see a lot of superficial stuff that doesn't really matter if gameplay (including career mode) is largely the same.

[DChaps]

TW13 was the most I have played a console golf game since the Odyssey. That said, I will probably not be purchasing TW14 unless I have confirmation of 2 things:

1) Lockup Bug is fixed
2) Country Club stats and scores are all available online

All the CC stats and tournament scores should be available online via web browser. CC daily and tournaments scores and details should be readily available online, not having to go through the horribly clunky interface. I know I sound like a broken record, but ESPN NFL2K5 provided this level of league play and stat tracking online back in 2004 on the Xbox (not to mention it was a $19.99 game). Halo 2 for the original Xbox also had very nice online stat tracking.

[Aristo]

All the CC stats and tournament scores should be available online via web browser. CC daily and tournaments scores and details should be readily available online, not having to go through the horribly clunky interface. I know I sound like a broken record, but ESPN NFL2K5 provided this level of league play and stat tracking online back in 2004 on the Xbox (not to mention it was a $19.99 game). Halo 2 for the original Xbox also had very nice online stat tracking.

Yeah, this is the real kind of improvement that I think more gamers would like. It's pretty insane to think how easily the old Sierra games generated HTML content that user could easily use to even create their own web sites with info from their games. If these games could ven generate reasonable text files of this stuff, users could post leaderboards and scorecards in the forum relatively painlessly. But EA has made this all more convoluted than necessary.

[J_Cauthen]

I would really like to see a camera that is like playing real-golf, but enhanced. ie; you watch the ball sail off into the distance, but maybe add ball-trail or allow the camera to rise off the ground simply for ease of tracking.

I'm tired of the ball cam, and that cam in TW 13 that just showed the ball in the the sky with no context was pretty terrible.

More or less the first camera shown in this Perfect Parallel Golf video

I hate the follow/ball cam in Tiger 13. I like the first camera shown in the Perfect Parallel video you've linked with the following modifications:

I found the swing camera perspective to be too distant. Insert the Tiger 13, head/shoulder height swing camera into that video and then give me the option to cut to a downrange camera, panning and following the shot to its destination about 75% of the way into its flight.

EA has already made a point of touting its PGA Tour broadcast style camera presentation in Tiger 14, in their UK division's press release. While this might give the gamer a chance to see a more authentic TV style production, it might also take you out of the moment, from a player perspective, more than the True-Aim perspective. I hope they've allowed us to configure the cameras a bit more than in the past.

[Wilk5280]

that they don't completely get how their customers actually use their products.

Quite to the contrary if you ask me. I'd say a more accurate statement is that we don't completely get how their customers actually use their products. It only takes a quick perusal through the daily tournaments to see that a very large majority would much rather play on Amateur difficulty and shoot -25 for a round of golf than to play a more true representation of the game.

We are a niche market and I'd be willing to bet that if EA catered to us and made a golf game exactly to our specifications it wouldn't sell very well. That's just the unfortunate reality of it. What we can hope for is that there's a good compromise that can somehow make everyone happy.

[J_Cauthen]

Perhaps I am reading it wrong but it seems to me the live scores will only work with a single tournament with 24 active participants at the same time. I find that a lofty goal considering we couldn't get more than 15 people to play in an event last year on their own schedules.

There has been some clarification given by a few gamechangers who've seen this action about how this works. Apparently what happens is that you can be "live" synched (chat, hole-by-hole scoring and stat updating, and real time shot tracers if they happen to be on the same hole as you) to up to 24 players simultaneously. IOW, you don't have to all go off the tee at the same time. The 24 players can be spread out over the entire course is what I'm gathering.

[J_Cauthen]

Well, I certainly get having to all be playing at the same time for live scoring. That pretty much matches with real life. Players who tee off in the afternoon will know the scores of those who have already completed their rounds and are back in the clubhouse. Unless I'm missing something here, that's how I'm envisioning this working. In that, if more than one player are playing at the same time for a round of the weekly, or even the daily, that the scores will update as they complete each hole (vice waiting until the round is complete and then posting it like last year).

I'm perfectly fine with that, if it does in fact work that way.

Yes, this would be perfectly fine with me. On the occasions where you could tee off with other players, I can see how you could play a pseudo-multiplayer round with the new "simultaneous" play tool by agreeing to play your shots by the "who's away" order of play and at least see the shot tracers depict their shots in real time. You could still be evaluating and prepping your shot while your playing companion(s) were doing likewise, pause and watch their shot tracers, chat with them via in the new in-game chat feature, and then hit your shot. You'd also have a dynamic leaderboard letting you know what was happening among others playing the course on different holes. It will be light years ahead of the sterile live atmosphere we had in Tiger 13.

[J_Cauthen]

1) Lockup Bug is fixed
2) Country Club stats and scores are all available online

Won't know about #1 until the game is released. As for #2, the Country Club's website on EA Sports.com already knows who's leading the tournaments as they progress, why they couldn't give us a browser based leaderboard and stat board is beyond me? I know that Senior Designer, Mike DeVault responded to a request for a browser based leaderboard after Tiger Wood's 10's release with an affirmative. It never came about as we now know, but dang I wish they'd get this done this year!

[DivotMaker]

that they don't completely get how their customers actually use their products.

Quite to the contrary if you ask me. I'd say a more accurate statement is that we don't completely get how their customers actually use their products. It only takes a quick perusal through the daily tournaments to see that a very large majority would much rather play on Amateur difficulty and shoot -25 for a round of golf than to play a more true representation of the game.

We are a niche market and I'd be willing to bet that if EA catered to us and made a golf game exactly to our specifications it wouldn't sell very well. That's just the unfortunate reality of it. What we can hope for is that there's a good compromise that can somehow make everyone happy.

I cannot wait for EA to release information on gameplay because I think it is going to shock and surprise you and others when you see what they will offer in TW14.....sorry I cannot elaborate further until the information is released....

[Danimal]

Perhaps I am reading it wrong but it seems to me the live scores will only work with a single tournament with 24 active participants at the same time. I find that a lofty goal considering we couldn't get more than 15 people to play in an event last year on their own schedules.

There has been some clarification given by a few gamechangers who've seen this action about how this works. Apparently what happens is that you can be "live" synched (chat, hole-by-hole scoring and stat updating, and real time shot tracers if they happen to be on the same hole as you) to up to 24 players simultaneously. IOW, you don't have to all go off the tee at the same time. The 24 players can be spread out over the entire course is what I'm gathering.

Your clarification actually confused me more. First I think it is a neat feature regardless I guess my question is this. If we set up a 4 round tournament like last year. When I am playing round 1 and lets say you and 3 others have complete all 4 rounds. Will I get score update during my round that only apply to your guys round 1? Or will I still see -35 because you completed all 4 rounds?

It sounds like it works for single round one off 24 player tournaments. Perhaps I just don't understand.

[J_Cauthen]

Deleted [duplicate]

[J_Cauthen]

Your clarification actually confused me more.

Probably because my clarification is based on conjecture of what elements of Live Tournaments the Gamechangers can discuss at this point.

First I think it is a neat feature regardless I guess my question is this. If we set up a 4 round tournament like last year. When I am playing round 1 and lets say you and 3 others have complete all 4 rounds. Will I get score update during my round that only apply to your guys round 1? Or will I still see -35 because you completed all 4 rounds?

The answers I've gotten to this so far haven't taken a 72 hole tournament into consideration, so I can't tackle your question with any authority. I think the only live, hole-by-hole updates you'll be getting will be from those players who are actually live on the course, playing the same tournament that you're playing. In a multiround tournament, I don't know if the leaderboard will be able to distinguish who's on which round. I don't know if it will say that player "X" is -10 though the fourth hole of round 2, if you're playing your first round. I'll see what I can learn about this and report back.

It sounds like it works for single round one off 24 player tournaments. Perhaps I just don't understand.

I think it would certainly be easier to manage on a single round. I'm not sure this question is one the Gamechangers are cleared to answer at this point also.

[Gangrel]

I think "live updates" of at least just the current round would be best. I know with 13 I tailed off and didn't really play it much, but when I was plaiying in some Online CC events, it was, despite this only being for fun of course, a little disheartening to be playing say in round 1 of a tourney, and seeing guys who had already played all 4 rounds and finished at -40.

I'm not sure how it could be handled, but I would love it if I could only see round 1 scores as i play round one and after I post my round.

Of course, there's nothing stopping someone from playing all 4 rounds and reporting the scores online that they see from other four rounders........ but at least it wouldn't be so in your face in the game.

I also think they need a handicap system badly. It would be cool to play in a tourney and think I had a shot at beating the Divots of the world as long as I shot my handicap and what not. Again, I know it's all for fun, and I'm not picking on anyone, I just used Divot as an example because he first came to mind.



With my kid coming on the way in April, I have a feeling I may actually play this a lot this year (if i like it of course) because something tells me real rounds of golf will be pretty lean this summer.......... much easier to pause the game to change a diaper.

[DChaps]

Edit: Ha, yeah, what Gangrel said above. I guess it's not just me.

I posted this years ago regarding a PC golf online tournament, but it would seem simple for the four round tournaments that can be posted over multiple days to allow for an option like this:

1) When I am playing Round 1, I am only seeing hole by hole scoring for those who have completed that hole whether it was done right now live, earlier today, or yesterday.
2) I don't see any final scores for any players that have completed Round 1, until I have completed Round 1.
3) This progresses all the way through round 4. Therefore, if the 4 day tournament runs Monday - Sunday, and I wait until Sunday to play all 4 rounds, I only see shot by shot scores, round by round as what has been completed, or is currently being completed live (ie someone playing the same round at the same time as me).
4) Granted, this is obviously not how real tournament golf works, as I could just be starting hole #1 and someone else is already in the clubhouse at 9 under, but I think for the purposes of creating tension in online golf, it would be better to "show it" as if all players were playing the round together.
5) I am only posing this as an option that could be selected by the individual who is playing in the tournament. If somone else wants to start round 1 knowing that Divot, J_Cauthen, Aristo, Leadfoot etc. are already in the clubhouse for four rounds at -30 then they could. But it would give someone like me the ability to recreate that tension even though most of the field has already completed four rounds.

I enjoyed playing in the CC last year even though I sucked, but there were plenty of tournaments that I never even started because I already knew that there was no hope of being anything but last by the time I got around to playing. Add in the fact that I usually had a lockup or two and it just ended up serving as a deterrent to playing. This option would at least trick me into thinking I had a chance.

I tried to explain this years ago in the Sierra/Headgate forums, or some such place, and it did not get much traction, so maybe it is just me.

[vader29]

I tried to explain this years ago in the Sierra/Headgate forums, or some such place, and it did not get much traction, so maybe it is just me.

It is not just you, I would love to see them implement that in this years game, it would make playing the game much more fun and competitive by seeing your position rise and fall from hole to hole instead of starting out a tournament seeing what the final scores are of those who finished.

[Danimal]

I also think they need a handicap system badly. It would be cool to play in a tourney and think I had a shot at beating the Divots of the world as long as I shot my handicap and what not. Again, I know it's all for fun, and I'm not picking on anyone, I just used Divot as an example because he first came to mind.

My thoughts on this go back to last years posting and I think my idea is awesome and would be easy to implement.

Point a points cap on tournament entry. In other words you can't use a golfer in any club events that have over 350 points assigned (don't pay attention to the number it's an example),

Thus everyone is playing with golfers of the same points level, now they distribute those points is up to them. Maybe I am a better irons player and you a long driver. You could set this at the tournament setup screen. This way it doesn't hurt the guys who want to play with fully pimped up golfers or don't care about this level playing field.

I grant you that even with same point level golfers the guys winning will still win because they are just better. I still think that it would reduce scores and make more people compete because they at least know the golfer level is the same.

A handicap system is also a great idea but since it is not used in the PGA I am not sure you would ever see it.

[pk500]

Agree 100 percent with Gang and Dan.

I really enjoyed playing in DSP Country Club tournaments last spring. But then I went to Indy for three weeks to work the 500, and my golfer was complete crap compared to many other DSPers when I returned home. So that dissuaded my participation in tournaments during the summer.

A handicap system would keep more players on the links, which is what everyone wants. A handicap system also should be optional. There could be some scratch events for the elite or those who want to challenge the elite and handicap events that accommodate the pros and ham-and-eggers.